Coup De Grâce, New Action from American Rifle Company, $899 WOW!

[YoungBuck94]

So I'm pretty interested in the CDG as it checks every box on my list (CRF, toolless bolt disassembly, interchangeable bolt head, 3 lug.) Never had a custom action/rifle though, but this one seems like a good introduction to the class.
That being said, how big of a PITA is it to get prefits for a conical breech? Is it going to be no different cost and availability wise than a standard flat breech?

 

[The D]

So I'm pretty interested in the CDG as it checks every box on my list (CRF, toolless bolt disassembly, interchangeable bolt head, 3 lug.) Never had a custom action/rifle though, but this one seems like a good introduction to the class.
That being said, how big of a PITA is it to get prefits for a conical breech? Is it going to be no different cost and availability wise than a standard flat breech?

There are already some online stores that have committed and they have released the tenon print so any ‘smith that can read and do math can make one for you. You’ll be fine

 

[Caldeio]

So I'm pretty interested in the CDG as it checks every box on my list (CRF, toolless bolt disassembly, interchangeable bolt head, 3 lug.) Never had a custom action/rifle though, but this one seems like a good introduction to the class.
That being said, how big of a PITA is it to get prefits for a conical breech? Is it going to be no different cost and availability wise than a standard flat breech?

If you order now, you'll have 4 months to decide! Just joking, just buy the action and then sell your third born. It's ok, the group is here for you...

 

[Crotalus]

Anybody know if ARC is still on track to ship the first batch of actions next month?

 

[padfoot 37]

Anybody know if ARC is still on track to ship the first batch of actions next month?

I also have been wondering this but not wanting to jinx anything by asking... my luck everyone but me would get theirs next week if i asked.

 

[lash]

I also have been wondering this but not wanting to jinx anything by asking... my luck everyone but me would get theirs next week if i asked.

Being in charge of luck jinxes, I believe that you have effectively asked now…

 

[fmorelli]

That being said, how big of a PITA is it to get prefits for a conical breech?

It would be nice if there was a convenient way to have a listed posted here, which we can add to, that shows who's offering pre-fits. Right now that info exists buried as posts in this 2,300+ long thread.

 

[bohem]

@bohem what twist do you guys run in your 7mm osprey prefits? The website has 6.5mm info on the 7mm page. Also do you have the 7 Sherman short b reamer?

Barrel Twist Rates

patriotvalleyarms.com

I've given up trying to keep up with whatever way the wind is blowing on the reamer revisions for a myriad of reasons and they've stopped renting reamers. There's too much changing and lot to lot brass variation that supporting Sherman stuff is financially feasible, and I have been very leery of the safety aspects of the load data provided by them. Rich refuses adamantly to submit anything for pressure barrel testing to back his claims of "more efficiency" and it's my liability insurance on the hook if someone blows up a rifle using his load data.

 

[bohem]

It would be nice if there was a convenient way to have a listed posted here, which we can add to, that shows who's offering pre-fits. Right now that info exists buried as posts in this 2,300+ long thread.

www.patriotvalleyarms.com

We have prefits in production right now.

 

[DangerRanger]

Barrel Twist Rates

patriotvalleyarms.com

I've given up trying to keep up with whatever way the wind is blowing on the reamer revisions for a myriad of reasons and they've stopped renting reamers. There's too much changing and lot to lot brass variation that supporting Sherman stuff is financially feasible, and I have been very leery of the safety aspects of the load data provided by them. Rich refuses adamantly to submit anything for pressure barrel testing to back his claims of "more efficiency" and it's my liability insurance on the hook if someone blows up a rifle using his load data.

glad someone of merit is finally posting this online.

Efficiency at this level is a lie. More powder and more pressure makes velocity. it’s not magic, it’s radical pressure.

 

[YoungBuck94]

There are already some online stores that have committed and they have released the tenon print so any ‘smith that can read and do math can make one for you. You’ll be fine

Appreciate that. Then the question is caliber, but that's an internal debate. Leaning towards 280 AI but we'll see.

 

[The D]

Appreciate that. Then the question is caliber, but that's an internal debate. Leaning towards 280 AI but we'll see.

With replaceable bolt heads and how easy it is to swap barrels the question should be; “What barrel should I start with?” But, 280ai is a great answer

 

[YoungBuck94]

If you order now, you'll have 4 months to decide! Just joking, just buy the action and then sell your third born. It's ok, the group is here for you...

Hahaha well I don't have a first born to sell, let alone a third... However that makes the purchase of toys and arms much easier

 

[YoungBuck94]

With replaceable bolt heads and how easy it is to swap barrels the question should be; “What barrel should I start with?” But, 280ai is a great answer

Haha yeah that would have been more accurate. 280 AI I feel would be about perfect for me as the furthest possible shot I have access to anywhere is only 719, and I don't intend on taking any game shots past 400.

 

[bohem]

glad someone of merit is finally posting this online.

Efficiency at this level is a lie. More powder and more pressure makes velocity. it’s not magic, it’s radical pressure.

I bit my tongue for a while and kept quiet. When someone recently called and gave me a lecture about how incredible the new "6.5 SI" was I couldn't sit still any longer. Sherman Improved... 40 degree shoulder, less body taper.... the audacity to overload brass, tell people it's safe without any pressure testing to back it, and then call P. O. Ackley's idea your own was just too much. Now I've put it in writing and I'll be happy to eat crow when some pressure testing from a SAAMI or CIP certified pressure test barrel says so. Until then, I don't buy it and I'm done putting my insurance policy in the liability chain.

On Another Note:

Here's the final qualified tenon against the ARC print. We made stubs of 223, Valkyrie, Grendel, and 308 case head tenons with the conical breech face. Production on the Group Buy barrels is in full swing, they will start shipping next week. All contours, lengths and muzzle threads are done. It's just down to tenon/chamber/polish.

(The machine work looks scruffy being that it's cut from a piece of scrap steel laying around, not a barrel blank)

 

[GLG20]

It would be nice if there was a convenient way to have a listed posted here, which we can add to, that shows who's offering pre-fits. Right now that info exists buried as posts in this 2,300+ long thread.

So far I know of...

-PVA (Patriot Valley Arms) Already making them, and replied to you above (Ordered mine from them)

Prefit Barrels with Osprey blanks

patriotvalleyarms.com

-Straight Jacket Armory (Benchmark steel blanks, Proof carbon barrels, and Bartlein drop shipped from Bugholes

American Rifle Company Nucleus, Archimedes, Mausingfield,and Coup DE Grace Pre-Fit Barrels - Straight Jacket Armory

prefit/ pre chambered barrel for ARC American rifle company Nucleus actions, Proof carbon fiber and benchmark stainless match grade barrels.

straightjacketarmory.com

-Preferred Barrel Blanks

American Rifle Co (Nucleus, Mausingfield, Archimedes, CDG) - Fixed Shoulder - Prefit Barrels

American Rifle Company – Prefit Gun Barrels The American Rifle Company: Nucleus, Mausingfield, Archimedes, and Coup De Grâce actions are extremely repeatable, so nice in fact, we are able to offer prefit barrels for their actions configured in a shouldered barrel. This means there is no barrel...

preferredbarrelblanks.com

Also, someone mentioned Carbon Six is or will be making them, and I believe there was one or two others mentioned. Hope this helps.

 

[Im2bent]

Barrel Twist Rates

patriotvalleyarms.com

I've given up trying to keep up with whatever way the wind is blowing on the reamer revisions for a myriad of reasons and they've stopped renting reamers. There's too much changing and lot to lot brass variation that supporting Sherman stuff is financially feasible, and I have been very leery of the safety aspects of the load data provided by them. Rich refuses adamantly to submit anything for pressure barrel testing to back his claims of "more efficiency" and it's my liability insurance on the hook if someone blows up a rifle using his load data.

This is interesting as I ordered a short action and a 223 barrel from you with the idea of maxing out the short action with a 7ss barrel from you guys. Been reading a lot of threads on here about the round and it seems to be excellent at face value. So for long range in a sa stick to the 6.5CM as I've read 7SAUM is crippled in a sa?

 

[LuvDog]

I bit my tongue for a while and kept quiet. When someone recently called and gave me a lecture about how incredible the new "6.5 SI" was I couldn't sit still any longer. Sherman Improved... 40 degree shoulder, less body taper.... the audacity to overload brass, tell people it's safe without any pressure testing to back it, and then call P. O. Ackley's idea your own was just too much. Now I've put it in writing and I'll be happy to eat crow when some pressure testing from a SAAMI or CIP certified pressure test barrel says so. Until then, I don't buy it and I'm done putting my insurance policy in the liability chain.

On Another Note:

Here's the final qualified tenon against the ARC print. We made stubs of 223, Valkyrie, Grendel, and 308 case head tenons with the conical breech face. Production on the Group Buy barrels is in full swing, they will start shipping next week. All contours, lengths and muzzle threads are done. It's just down to tenon/chamber/polish.

(The machine work looks scruffy being that it's cut from a piece of scrap steel laying around, not a barrel blank)

View attachment 8097168

awesome news that the pre orders will be shipping soon. How many pre orders did you get?

 

[Ebar48]

I bit my tongue for a while and kept quiet. When someone recently called and gave me a lecture about how incredible the new "6.5 SI" was I couldn't sit still any longer. Sherman Improved... 40 degree shoulder, less body taper.... the audacity to overload brass, tell people it's safe without any pressure testing to back it, and then call P. O. Ackley's idea your own was just too much. Now I've put it in writing and I'll be happy to eat crow when some pressure testing from a SAAMI or CIP certified pressure test barrel says so. Until then, I don't buy it and I'm done putting my insurance policy in the liability chain.

On Another Note:

Here's the final qualified tenon against the ARC print. We made stubs of 223, Valkyrie, Grendel, and 308 case head tenons with the conical breech face. Production on the Group Buy barrels is in full swing, they will start shipping next week. All contours, lengths and muzzle threads are done. It's just down to tenon/chamber/polish.

(The machine work looks scruffy being that it's cut from a piece of scrap steel laying around, not a barrel blank)

View attachment 8097168

Totally understand about the load data, and I agree completely that the “published” 30SM data for the 245s is faster than the majority of people are running them in the 300NM. When it comes down to it, I just honestly like the looks of improved cartridges and the fact that, although costly, quality brass is always available. And yea I can care less if people want to try to obtain some insane velocity out of it, I don’t load that way for many reasons. But yea if you are carrying liability insurance for it, totally not worth it. I do wish they would submit to px testing. Thanks for the response

 

[bohem]

This is interesting as I ordered a short action and a 223 barrel from you with the idea of maxing out the short action with a 7ss barrel from you guys. Been reading a lot of threads on here about the round and it seems to be excellent at face value. So for long range in a sa stick to the 6.5CM as I've read 7SAUM is crippled in a sa?

The 7 SAUM in a SA isn't crippled but it's definitely not what you can do with a throated out version in a medium or LA. A nice medium balance there has turned out to be a 7/6.5 PRC or "Short PRC". It has an excellent balance of fitting in the SA with a larger case body than the Creed or standard 308 based stuff.

Ultimately, what do you consider to be "long range" for the application where a 7 SAUM is on your mind?

 

[bohem]

awesome news that the pre orders will be shipping soon. How many pre orders did you get?

Enough to keep us busy for a couple of weeks cutting chambers. The Hide was good to us and I'm appreciative of being able to work with a good customer base.

 

[RFutch]

Enough to keep us busy for a couple of weeks cutting chambers. The Hide was good to us and I'm appreciative of being able to work with a good customer base.

Based on the comment up above with the stub gauge pic, are you still cutting a fair amount of Valkyrie chambers for bolt guns? I’m still loving the one I got from you.

 

[bohem]

Based on the comment up above with the stub gauge pic, are you still cutting a fair amount of Valkyrie chambers for bolt guns. I’m still loving the one I got from you.

Almost none TBH, however I did do the qualifying work for the odd one that comes in now and again. I'm glad to hear you're enjoying it. They're not very popular due to feeding issues typically. I had a barrel years ago on a Bighorn pre-TL series receiver that was essentially a 224V with an aggressive AI job on it. It was fun shooting 75 Amax at 3300 from a 20" bolt gun. Though I didn't have good luck getting it to feed all that well.

 

[RFutch]

Little bumpy road to get here but I’m now using MDT 6BR 10 rounders with the lips bent in to .365 apart. It feeds like butter, no issues out of an Origin.

 

[bohem]

Little bumpy road to get here but I’m now using MDT 6BR 10 rounders with the lips bent in to .365 apart. It feeds like butter, no issues out of an Origin.

That's really good to know. Thank you

 

[fmorelli]

Well ... looks like CarbonSix pre-fits for magnums but not the SA CDG's ...

 

[RFutch]

They can't figure that part out??? lol

 

[matleez]

That's embarrassing

 

[AirgunnerPCP]

I'm no machinist but I've cut a few parts before. Maybe I'm missing something but programming in the coned breech seems straight forward and is called out clearly in the tenon dwg. Wonder what the issue is.

 

[LeftyJason]

I'm no machinist but I've cut a few parts before. Maybe I'm missing something but programming in the coned breech seems straight forward and is called out clearly in the tenon dwg. Wonder what the issue is.

Coned breech would likely require an ID cutter of some sort. Od cutters don't have the clearance to do it.
This is somewhat an unusual od holder but it shows the area needed to get the point across. The area under the insert would need to be relieved. This is only an od or face tool.

Here is a boring bar. The size of the boring bar has to be matched to the size of the smallest hole it needs to fit in. Would be easiest to go into the chamber and come out and face up to not leave a possible burr in the chamber.

For a better explanation of clearances that is funny here's This Old Tony.

For more granular details on boring bars Blondihacks has a pretty good vid.

 

[rijndael]

Aren't coned breaches fairly common on rimfire rifles?

Nevermind: Coned breaches in rimfire are different than centerfire coned breaches.

 

[AirgunnerPCP]

Coned breech would likely require an ID cutter of some sort. Od cutters don't have the clearance to do it.
This is somewhat an unusual od holder but it shows the area needed to get the point across. The area under the insert would need to be relieved. This is only an od or face tool.


Here is a boring bar. The size of the boring bar has to be matched to the size of the smallest hole it needs to fit in. Would be easiest to go into the chamber and come out and face up to not leave a possible burr in the chamber.


For a better explanation of clearances that is funny here's This Old Tony.

For more granular details on boring bars Blondihacks has a pretty good vid.

I understand the tooling involved. I guess it's just surprising to me that they would have an issue machining a cone.

 

[zeroz]

I ordered one early from Carbon 6. They said they would do them if they were a standard cone across the board and that they didn't want to do them if there were a bunch of different drawings for different calibers. I haven't looked at the drawing but I assume that's the case.

 

[fmorelli]

I ordered one early from Carbon 6. They said they would do them if they were a standard cone across the board and that they didn't want to do them if there were a bunch of different drawings for different calibers. I haven't looked at the drawing but I assume that's the case.

You ordered one? Specifically for what caliber? And they are doing it? Seems like the response I have says they are not.

 

[LeftyJason]

I understand the tooling involved. I guess it's just surprising to me that they would have an issue machining a cone.

I also explained for others that don't understand machining.

 

[Kiba]

If a shop can't make and proof a couple of NC programs for different cone depths for 3 or 4 different case head diameters, can you trust them with a chambering reamer?

 

[Im2bent]

It's probably more likely that they can't be bothered with it. Not enough juice.

 

[LuvDog]

I get that it's an extra step, but why not still offer it at an additional price?

 

[zeroz]

I can't really speak for them and what they're going to do moving forward. When I originally called the said they do cone breaches for several barrels, so I dont think they're inept. They said that they weren't interested in making a bunch of different cuts for prefits. Sounded like it was too much pain for the amount they'd sell. They did say that they were going to do mine and a few others since it was pre tenon drawing. I have-not heard different from them so hopefully they honor it. I kinda hate to be ordering another barrel now, but it may not matter. I haven't tried their barrels yet and have heard good things so thought I'd give it a go this time. We'll find out if I'll be back or not. So far I am happy with the customer service in that they answered the phone, spent the time to answer my questions and said they would make the barrel even if they decided not to make prefits for the Coup.

 

[shootertom]

I can't really speak for them and what they're going to do moving forward. When I originally called the said they do cone breaches for several barrels, so I dont think they're inept. They said that they weren't interested in making a bunch of different cuts for prefits. Sounded like it was too much pain for the amount they'd sell. They did say that they were going to do mine and a few others since it was pre tenon drawing. I have-not heard different from them so hopefully they honor it. I kinda hate to be ordering another barrel now, but it may not matter. I haven't tried their barrels yet and have heard good things so thought I'd give it a go this time. We'll find out if I'll be back or not. So far I am happy with the customer service in that they answered the phone, spent the time to answer my questions and said they would make the barrel even if they decided not to make prefits for the Coup.

I have a couple of their barrels and they shoot very well. You won’t be disappointed.

 

[Tokay444]

Well ... looks like CarbonSix pre-fits for magnums but not the SA CDG's ...

View attachment 8097726

“Weird cone”. Tell me you’re not a machinist without telling me you’re not a machinist. I wouldn’t trust anyone to chamber a barrel who can’t figure out how to cone a breach.

 

[Tokay444]

I ordered one early from Carbon 6. They said they would do them if they were a standard cone across the board and that they didn't want to do them if there were a bunch of different drawings for different calibers. I haven't looked at the drawing but I assume that's the case.

There will be one cone for each bolt head, up to the magnums that don’t require it. Not many at all.

 

[TheOE800]

“Weird cone”. Tell me you’re not a machinist without telling me you’re not a machinist. I wouldn’t trust anyone to chamber a barrel who can’t figure out how to cone a breach.

“Director of sales” it’s in his sig.

 

[bohem]

Here’s the CDG prefits from 0800-1200 today just before I QA checked all of them.

End of day count: 31 chambered barrels ready for polishing room.

Guys will start seeing shipping notices tomorrow.

If Carbon 6 doesn’t want to make coned prefits you are welcome to call us. We have it qualified and they’re flowing well.

 

[FievelTX]

Looks like everyone is going with 6.5 CM!

Those look beautiful though, I should have pulled the trigger when the free muzzle brake preorder was going on.

 

[b6graham]

@bohem what's the lead time on 7mm osprey CFW blanks? or any blank, CFW or not

 

[Im2bent]

The 7 SAUM in a SA isn't crippled but it's definitely not what you can do with a throated out version in a medium or LA. A nice medium balance there has turned out to be a 7/6.5 PRC or "Short PRC". It has an excellent balance of fitting in the SA with a larger case body than the Creed or standard 308 based stuff.

Ultimately, what do you consider to be "long range" for the application where a 7 SAUM is on your mind?

Your question made me reevaluate my needs vs my wants and probable range opportunity's and will end up with a manbun to keep things "real".

 

[S3th]

Only sees 6.5CM... cries in 22GT.

 

[fmorelli]

I can't really speak for them and what they're going to do moving forward. When I originally called the said they do cone breaches for several barrels, so I dont think they're inept. They said that they weren't interested in making a bunch of different cuts for prefits. Sounded like it was too much pain for the amount they'd sell. They did say that they were going to do mine and a few others since it was pre tenon drawing. I have-not heard different from them so hopefully they honor it. I kinda hate to be ordering another barrel now, but it may not matter. I haven't tried their barrels yet and have heard good things so thought I'd give it a go this time. We'll find out if I'll be back or not. So far I am happy with the customer service in that they answered the phone, spent the time to answer my questions and said they would make the barrel even if they decided not to make prefits for the Coup.

Please keep us apprised. Appreciate the reply. BTW what caliber did you ask them for?

 

[fmorelli]

Your question made me reevaluate my needs vs my wants and probable range opportunity's and will end up with a manbun to keep things "real".

Don't go down the logic path vs the uggah duggahs ... that's a hole you won't climb out of net positive.