Except the problem is the cone depth. That’s just a bandaid that detracts from the action and doesn’t address the root problem. Notice that his case groove isn’t even fully clear of the chamber.
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Coup De Grâce, New Action from American Rifle Company, $899 WOW!
- Thread starter karagias
- Start date
Did it headspace properly. Cone would be a easy fix on the lathe.
If you have some solder you can check the gap
If you have some solder you can check the gap
That was me. I would say more of an observation of something that stood out and I didn't care for, you can call it complaining if you like. I still stand by the observation, bolt lift is heavier than my Achimedes and and most definitely not as smooth on the lift. For now I'm going with it's in need of more bolt cycles to smooth up. I believe ARC told me the Archimedes uses a 19 pound striker spring. I suspect the CDG uses a heavier one and possibly does so over a shorter lever throw.
I have 20 rounds down the pipe at this point. Just trying to get a generic load that I can use for break in, some practice and sort things out. I am currently using an AW mag in my ACC chassis. As is, I don't think the ACC in stock form is the best choice (I don't think they have an adjustable mag catch for it). I really have to bang the magazine to click into place. In the future I will pull it out and try it in the Xylo and see how that goes. I'm having some issues with feeding the GT rounds unless I have them pushed forward a bit in the mag. I'm not sure if this combo is keeping the rear of the mag a touch too low or it its something else. If it does the same in the Xylo, I will have to try the HRD spacer kits to keep the rounds further forward. When the bolt catches the rounds they feed so smoothly. I'd guess that is in part do to the conical breech face and AW magazine. Very smooth!
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Complaint wasn’t used to be derogatory towards you, it just is what it is. When I saw S3th’s scrubbing issue, i couldn't remember who had posted that, but this would have explained it, which is why I mentioned it.
Keep yours sloppy lubed up till it smoothes out. Mine is unbelievably good, in fact no other three lug I've felt comes close.
As for your magazine. The mag should be butting against the receiver, and the front strap of the mag should sit on a flat that’s cut at the forward edge of the magazine cutout. If your mag is doing that properly, your feed issue is not likely the mag being too low.
If it’s up agains the action solid what would make the rounds not pick up at the back of the magazine? This is my first go around with an AW magazine, do you adjust feed lips? It looks like they are perfectly aligned with the mag opening of the action.
Only way I could see that happening is if the follower/spring was allowing the rear of the cartridge so sit very low. If you want to eliminate the chassis as the issue, you can put your barreled action in a barrel vice and just hold the magazine against the magwell cutout. The flat I mentioned earlier makes it east to square the mag up with the receiver.
I guess my first order of business needs to be making some dummy rounds so I can do some trouble shooting.
So i grabbed my mag and tested a Br, 6.5x47, and the 6cm. Ive used the 47 and cm in an aw mag extensively, and they work well. Even though the 47 works, the ass of the case doesnt snap back up to the feed lip with the same authority as the CM when you push the rounds down or try to make them cockeyed. The BR is just fucked, and pretty much nothing I do will unfuck them except sliding them forward. I do recall some people having issues with the GT in an AW mag(years ago). Does anyone make a spacer kit for the AW mag?
Huge purchase on the case head. Both pics are of a 6cm
They have to be pretty out of whack for the bolt to ride over them.
It looks like SAP sells spacer kits by HRD Gear:
www.shortactionprecision.com
HRD Gear 6MM AW Magazine Spacer Kit - Short Action Precision
The HRD GEAR 6mm magazine spacer kit is designed to allow the popular 6BR and 6 Dasher cases to run flawlessly in the AW/AX double stack magazines (part numbers 0726 and 6677). The back spacer is a press fit and clips into place from the top of the mag. There is a small hole to aid in removal...
HRD makes them for AW mags. They are for Dasher/BR variations. Will have to thin the spacer most likely.
I think I have my AW mag feed issue resolved for now. I pulled it apart and stretched the spring. It feeds well so far. I ran about 50 dummy rounds through it after the stretch and it fed them all. I really like loading up these AW mags. They are so easy compared to AICS mags! I have the HRD kits to use if this doesn't work long term.
The stickiness and/or binding is driving me crazy. Any upward or downward pressure on the bolt handle induces bind. The faster I try run it the worse it is. I "think" it's binding on the slot in the left side of the bolt that is also for the bolt stop. That slot seems to be the only guide, unlike the Nuke and Archimedes that have guide rails for the bolt lugs. I've put a light coating of oil on it. but I can't make it sloppy wet. I live in OK and the red moon dust you see PRS guys bitch about is real.
paging deathbeforedouche to remind everyone they should run Impact like everyone else in OK.
Was that a new AW mag, or high mileage?
Definitely lube the anti bind rail, and any other contact point if only for the first couple hundred cycles.
@Supersubes The mag is brand new. I can easily fit 11 rounds in it. Is that common with the AWs?
"Definitely lube the anti bind rail, and any other contact point if only for the first couple hundred cycles."
That's quite funny, lube the anti-bind rail!
I'll add more lube.
"Definitely lube the anti bind rail, and any other contact point if only for the first couple hundred cycles."
That's quite funny, lube the anti-bind rail!
I'll add more lube.
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So is that cone issue not being deep enough on pva barrels a spec issue that im going to encounter on my barrel also once my action shows up or is it just that one barrel is different? Anyone else having that issue with a pva barrel yet?
Just curious cuz I also have a pva barrel waiting on an action and due to ordering on the 10th i probably wont see mine for a bit... Could send my barrel back and get it adjusted and maybe have it back before the action gets here if adjustments are needed...
I've been using a PVA barrel for about 300rds and haven't noticed an issue with the cone. I can double check though.
Well, if you havent noticed an issue, you may very well not have an issue. Tolerance stacking, short chambered barrel, shallow
cone, etc can all lead up to the issue posted above.
A cone cut short or outside the specified 28-30 deg angle might cause an issue as well.
Mine is a PVA and I don’t see any clearance issues. There may be the slightest of mark on the extractor, but that could be from me taking it in and out a bunch or cycling the action without a round in it as mentioned earlier by someone.
Whatever the case I’m sure @bohem will make it right for @S3th. Not that it’s a PVA issue, I think we ordered our barrels as soon as they were available. I’m sure he hadn’t had his hands on many, if any, production actions.
Whatever the case I’m sure @bohem will make it right for @S3th. Not that it’s a PVA issue, I think we ordered our barrels as soon as they were available. I’m sure he hadn’t had his hands on many, if any, production actions.
Yeah, it is understandable that in first ever run of barrels an issue or two would pop-up.
Of course, its a preorder. Not worried since both companies are awesome. Just curious.
PVA 6.5 CM barrel on mine, 80 rounds so far, no clearance issues on the extractor and no marring on the coned breech.
This is news to us but we'll get it fixed for anyone that has an issue currently. I just went through the thread and @S3th 's comments.
The production program was cut to be 0.001/0.002" deeper on the cone than the print called for. Looks like it needs to be more like 0.005 based off the photos to make sure everything is always clear. There are several hundred CDG barrels out there, so far it looks like single digit % that have the issue. That leads me to believe it's a stackup issue as we're making 1 of the numerous parts in the assembly that is rubbing. Overlapping tails happen from time to time, we'll get it fixed up for those that have it. Anyone's stuff that's here is being remediated to be sure it doesn't continue.
I just sat down with the programming and moved the cone forward and additional 0.0035"
The production program was cut to be 0.001/0.002" deeper on the cone than the print called for. Looks like it needs to be more like 0.005 based off the photos to make sure everything is always clear. There are several hundred CDG barrels out there, so far it looks like single digit % that have the issue. That leads me to believe it's a stackup issue as we're making 1 of the numerous parts in the assembly that is rubbing. Overlapping tails happen from time to time, we'll get it fixed up for those that have it. Anyone's stuff that's here is being remediated to be sure it doesn't continue.
I just sat down with the programming and moved the cone forward and additional 0.0035"
Another thought... Oversized case rims (thickness, diameter, or both) could also contribute to an extractor to cone clearance issue especially when single feeding as the extractor will have to pivot open more or stay in the opened position longer in order to snap over an oversized case head.
Tolerance stacking is fun stuff, and can also bite you in the ass. Quite a few things in this situation can cause issues dimensionally... bolt face to action face, bolt face to extractor nose, depth/headspace of chamber, length of tenon on barrel, depth and angle of cone, diameter of case rim, thickness of case rim, if extractor is on positive or negative side of tolerance, etc.
I have my PVA 22GT barrel here and it looks like the cone stops right where the case starts to chamfer from the main body down to the extractor groove cut on out of the box unfired Alpha 22GT brass, but I don't have my action here to make sure the extractor will clear the cone. If I run into an issue I have access to a couple of lathes and it's not an issue to cut the cone a bit deeper rather than ship it back to PVA.
If I get bored maybe I'll map out the barrel tenon, cone, and case head geometry and headspace on the CMM, but that still won't tell me if I have an extractor to cone clearance issue during cycling and single feeding until the action is here.
Tolerance stacking is fun stuff, and can also bite you in the ass. Quite a few things in this situation can cause issues dimensionally... bolt face to action face, bolt face to extractor nose, depth/headspace of chamber, length of tenon on barrel, depth and angle of cone, diameter of case rim, thickness of case rim, if extractor is on positive or negative side of tolerance, etc.
I have my PVA 22GT barrel here and it looks like the cone stops right where the case starts to chamfer from the main body down to the extractor groove cut on out of the box unfired Alpha 22GT brass, but I don't have my action here to make sure the extractor will clear the cone. If I run into an issue I have access to a couple of lathes and it's not an issue to cut the cone a bit deeper rather than ship it back to PVA.
If I get bored maybe I'll map out the barrel tenon, cone, and case head geometry and headspace on the CMM, but that still won't tell me if I have an extractor to cone clearance issue during cycling and single feeding until the action is here.
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I've had my barrel for a bit over a month but it's going on a lefty CDG action, so it probably won't be built for a little while yet. If I run into problems down the road when I'm finally able to shoot it, will I be able to send it in?
I'm in the same boat, but per post 3481 if you throw a case in the barrel and the extractor groove is even or proud of the bottom of the cone it should be good?
Drop a case in. If the cone clears the extractor groove, it's fine. If not, send it now.
It’s an archaic boomer process with dark magic like personal checks.
Email: [email protected]
Include which action, caliber, and cleaning rod diameter. These are custom fit to your specific action and cleaning rod size.
He will email you back with the cost and delivery time. The transaction went very smooth.
Delivery was about 2 weeks from the time I ordered it until it was in my mail box.
Yes. If it has issues we will take care of it. The liklihood of having issues is low, so far it looks like about 2% of the barrels shipped have a problem with the extractor rubbing, so don't get too spun up about it. If it's there we will take care of it, if it's not then you have nothing to worry about.
This is not correct. The extractor groove is a wide open tolerance and varies substantially from maker to maker and lot to lot. It is NOT a good indicator of dimensional compliance on the barrel.
Many barrels will show the forwardmost edge of the extractor groove to be inside the barrel depending on the case size and the groove depth, especially short mags or anything with a rebated case head.
I just want to say that PVA was prompt in sending me a return shipping label. & ARC proactively sent me a brand new claw to replace my damaged one. No cost to me on either part.
Action came today. Couldn’t find any machining marks like was posted above a few pages back.
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Thanks for the tip! Was curious about the feel of the bolt as well, but now that it’s properly adjusted, it feels GREAT!
