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CT elementary school shooting.
- Thread starter JelloStorm
- Start date
Re: CT elementary school shooting.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jaeger308</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The other move that scares me more would be that the government would consider grading every citizens mental health outside of viewing it within a criminal record as it is done already. Where would that stop? Obamacare already is over reaching, with this they could deny anything with a grade of their mental health of you! </div></div>
This ^^^, and putting it on an RFID. Coincidence that a new DSM for psychiatric disorders just came out? Incentives to have electronic medical records that can be accessed by the government with simple keystrokes and penalties for not implementing them?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jaeger308</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The other move that scares me more would be that the government would consider grading every citizens mental health outside of viewing it within a criminal record as it is done already. Where would that stop? Obamacare already is over reaching, with this they could deny anything with a grade of their mental health of you! </div></div>
This ^^^, and putting it on an RFID. Coincidence that a new DSM for psychiatric disorders just came out? Incentives to have electronic medical records that can be accessed by the government with simple keystrokes and penalties for not implementing them?
Re: CT elementary school shooting.
DSM III was in the works as soon as DSM II was published, DSM IV was in the works when DSM III was published, and the same will hold true for DSM V, VI, VII etc. While it may play a role in such politics, it is a stretch to consider it part of a conspiracy of any sort...
DSM III was in the works as soon as DSM II was published, DSM IV was in the works when DSM III was published, and the same will hold true for DSM V, VI, VII etc. While it may play a role in such politics, it is a stretch to consider it part of a conspiracy of any sort...
Re: CT elementary school shooting.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: athhud</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just had an epiphany of sorts..... It's obvious and shouldn't even have to be said, but I'm afraid we've complicated the shit out of a simple fact. You can not prevent the unthinkable. There is no way to recognize it, no way to learn about it, and no way to prepare for it. While all of the talk about religion, video games, child rearing, gun control, mental health, and medical practice may hold merit, there is nothing we can ever do to prevent a single person from acting against our social contract. All we can do is assemble a "first aid kit" and pray that it will suffice. Sometimes it won't, but if it does once that is better than nothing.</div></div>
Spot on and agree 100%
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: athhud</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just had an epiphany of sorts..... It's obvious and shouldn't even have to be said, but I'm afraid we've complicated the shit out of a simple fact. You can not prevent the unthinkable. There is no way to recognize it, no way to learn about it, and no way to prepare for it. While all of the talk about religion, video games, child rearing, gun control, mental health, and medical practice may hold merit, there is nothing we can ever do to prevent a single person from acting against our social contract. All we can do is assemble a "first aid kit" and pray that it will suffice. Sometimes it won't, but if it does once that is better than nothing.</div></div>
Spot on and agree 100%
Re: CT elementary school shooting.
Prayers for the families of victims of this senseless tragedy, to have such young lives taken, makes me sick...
It is a monster of uncomprehensible proportion, an evil, and too honestly thought of MK Ultra with my tinfoil hat in regards to the Aurora shooter and this shooter. The individuals involved are just too extreme, and only one of other group of Westernized elitists practice sacrifice of children...if Monarch and MK Ultra are real, this might be the only rationale explanation for the evil we are seeing - the extent is so scary most people will refuse to acknowledge such forces of evil in the highest positions of power.
Again with these individuals their mental histories were known and they COULD have been stopped by family members.
In the Aurora shooting thread I made a comment about holding accountable any family members or psychiatists/psychologists who were aware of these severely deranged individuals and did not act is only one other group of people I know of that are willing to literally sacrifice children
Prayers for the families of victims of this senseless tragedy, to have such young lives taken, makes me sick...
It is a monster of uncomprehensible proportion, an evil, and too honestly thought of MK Ultra with my tinfoil hat in regards to the Aurora shooter and this shooter. The individuals involved are just too extreme, and only one of other group of Westernized elitists practice sacrifice of children...if Monarch and MK Ultra are real, this might be the only rationale explanation for the evil we are seeing - the extent is so scary most people will refuse to acknowledge such forces of evil in the highest positions of power.
Again with these individuals their mental histories were known and they COULD have been stopped by family members.
In the Aurora shooting thread I made a comment about holding accountable any family members or psychiatists/psychologists who were aware of these severely deranged individuals and did not act is only one other group of people I know of that are willing to literally sacrifice children
Re: CT elementary school shooting.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nostradumbass</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Personally, I think tragedies like this are all part of an Anti-Gun conspiracy plan. </div></div>
+1...It is easy to connect the dots when people pull their heads out of the sand. World history has shown that governments are capable of anything, no matter how disturbing it may be to moral people like we are.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nostradumbass</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Personally, I think tragedies like this are all part of an Anti-Gun conspiracy plan. </div></div>
+1...It is easy to connect the dots when people pull their heads out of the sand. World history has shown that governments are capable of anything, no matter how disturbing it may be to moral people like we are.
Re: CT elementary school shooting.
We need to re-group and marshall our efforts. Fire the NRA. Take the initiative to Congress for stricter enforcement of existing law governing purchase and sale. We cannot wait for the attack from gun control proponents. Instead, we must assume the offensive, ignore the enemy and the NRA and take it to the streets of Washington. Now. Get your bus ticket. Waiting for NRA lobbyists to present same, tired arguments, getting the same results, will no longer work. The time has come for a new plan. A new strategy and a new tactic. And this is it.
We need to re-group and marshall our efforts. Fire the NRA. Take the initiative to Congress for stricter enforcement of existing law governing purchase and sale. We cannot wait for the attack from gun control proponents. Instead, we must assume the offensive, ignore the enemy and the NRA and take it to the streets of Washington. Now. Get your bus ticket. Waiting for NRA lobbyists to present same, tired arguments, getting the same results, will no longer work. The time has come for a new plan. A new strategy and a new tactic. And this is it.
Re: CT elementary school shooting.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Casey Simpson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
We need to re-group and marshall our efforts. Fire the NRA. Take the initiative to Congress for stricter enforcement of existing law governing purchase and sale. We cannot wait for the attack from gun control proponents. Instead, we must assume the offensive, ignore the enemy and the NRA and take it to the streets of Washington. Now. Get your bus ticket. Waiting for NRA lobbyists to present same, tired arguments, getting the same results, will no longer work. The time has come for a new plan. A new strategy and a new tactic. And this is it. </div></div>
Idiot
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Casey Simpson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
We need to re-group and marshall our efforts. Fire the NRA. Take the initiative to Congress for stricter enforcement of existing law governing purchase and sale. We cannot wait for the attack from gun control proponents. Instead, we must assume the offensive, ignore the enemy and the NRA and take it to the streets of Washington. Now. Get your bus ticket. Waiting for NRA lobbyists to present same, tired arguments, getting the same results, will no longer work. The time has come for a new plan. A new strategy and a new tactic. And this is it. </div></div>
Idiot
Re: CT elementary school shooting.
A very, very sad day indeed. Innocents lost at the hands of a coward. My thoughts and prayers are with all the families. If this tread teaches us nothing, it is to protect you and yours b/c nobody else is going to. No soapbox, just tragic reality.
A very, very sad day indeed. Innocents lost at the hands of a coward. My thoughts and prayers are with all the families. If this tread teaches us nothing, it is to protect you and yours b/c nobody else is going to. No soapbox, just tragic reality.
Re: CT elementary school shooting.
My children were in their pre-teens during Columbine and I remember I hugged them extra hard that day and thanked God we didn't live there. They were teenagers on 9-11 and I prayed real hard that the rumors that L.A. would be next remained rumors. They are now grown and I am a Granddaddy who has Grandchildren the same age as the children who died today. I think I'll hug them all extra special this weekend.
There is no greater pain than loosing a child or grand child. I know I've been there for I watched my own Granddaughter laid to rest in Feb. 2009. May God comfort the families of the children lost as well as the families of the adults.
As to the sick bastard who took those childrens lives, I hear Hell has a special place for such people. May his days be filled with a torment many times worse than what he has caused.
My children were in their pre-teens during Columbine and I remember I hugged them extra hard that day and thanked God we didn't live there. They were teenagers on 9-11 and I prayed real hard that the rumors that L.A. would be next remained rumors. They are now grown and I am a Granddaddy who has Grandchildren the same age as the children who died today. I think I'll hug them all extra special this weekend.
There is no greater pain than loosing a child or grand child. I know I've been there for I watched my own Granddaughter laid to rest in Feb. 2009. May God comfort the families of the children lost as well as the families of the adults.
As to the sick bastard who took those childrens lives, I hear Hell has a special place for such people. May his days be filled with a torment many times worse than what he has caused.
Re: CT elementary school shooting.
Very Very sad, thoughts and prayers to the victims and family during these horrible times.
Very Very sad, thoughts and prayers to the victims and family during these horrible times.
Re: CT elementary school shooting.
What any one of us would give to be at that school 5 minutes before Mr. Asshole showed up.
Listen guys, I'm very serious about this. Every single one of us who can CCW legally needs to do so ALL THE TIME. We are in for a political ass-whooping because of this. If everyone carried when he/she can, we'd be able to stop some of these pricks AND it would say volumes politically.
This massacre makes me sick, like if I think about those children I'll become ill. This is the worse I have felt in years, I cannot EVEN attempt to imagine what the parents feel, I would melt down if I tried, I have to block it out.
CARRY CARRY CARRY
What any one of us would give to be at that school 5 minutes before Mr. Asshole showed up.
Listen guys, I'm very serious about this. Every single one of us who can CCW legally needs to do so ALL THE TIME. We are in for a political ass-whooping because of this. If everyone carried when he/she can, we'd be able to stop some of these pricks AND it would say volumes politically.
This massacre makes me sick, like if I think about those children I'll become ill. This is the worse I have felt in years, I cannot EVEN attempt to imagine what the parents feel, I would melt down if I tried, I have to block it out.
CARRY CARRY CARRY
Re: CT elementary school shooting.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sharfshutze</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Billions in homeland security money on bullshit and jack shit is done to actively protect our children! </div></div>
Careful what you wish for... </div></div>
Yes. It's a fucked up situation. I don't want armed guards in my kids elementary school. This is heresy to some here but I personally would be willing to go through more strict controls to buy guns if it would keep some number of insane individuals from buying guns and things like this from happening. The problem is what would be effective and reasonable controls, and who would decide and how?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sharfshutze</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Billions in homeland security money on bullshit and jack shit is done to actively protect our children! </div></div>
Careful what you wish for... </div></div>
Yes. It's a fucked up situation. I don't want armed guards in my kids elementary school. This is heresy to some here but I personally would be willing to go through more strict controls to buy guns if it would keep some number of insane individuals from buying guns and things like this from happening. The problem is what would be effective and reasonable controls, and who would decide and how?
Re: CT elementary school shooting.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: graywolf.260</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sharfshutze</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Billions in homeland security money on bullshit and jack shit is done to actively protect our children! </div></div>
Careful what you wish for... </div></div>
Yes. It's a fucked up situation. I don't want armed guards in my kids elementary school. This is heresy to some here but I personally would be willing to go through more strict controls to buy guns if it would keep some number of insane individuals from buying guns and things like this from happening. The problem is what would be effective and reasonable controls, and who would decide and how? </div></div>
Sad thing is that gun control does not help. People have to realize that! at any moment something like this could happen. Look at China where that guy went crazy and cut up the kids! pretty soon you will have a law to govern everything you buy, including 2x4's( not only will they be tough to buy they will have serial numbers on every piece of wood). I firmly believe that schools are targeted because they are not defended. put a undercover badge and metal detector at the front where anyone coming in will have to pass. It kills me to see what these people are going through! I may be a new member but am not a stranger to firearms and seeing/hearing about violence especially where I live. I feel if you take away the prime easy targets of opportunity you will eliminate this quite a bit. btw the states with the toughest control on guns have a higher crime rate then those that do not!
also look at my signature! this statement is true beyond belief! people need to learn to protect themselves and if they are at a school then protect the kids!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: graywolf.260</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sharfshutze</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Billions in homeland security money on bullshit and jack shit is done to actively protect our children! </div></div>
Careful what you wish for... </div></div>
Yes. It's a fucked up situation. I don't want armed guards in my kids elementary school. This is heresy to some here but I personally would be willing to go through more strict controls to buy guns if it would keep some number of insane individuals from buying guns and things like this from happening. The problem is what would be effective and reasonable controls, and who would decide and how? </div></div>
Sad thing is that gun control does not help. People have to realize that! at any moment something like this could happen. Look at China where that guy went crazy and cut up the kids! pretty soon you will have a law to govern everything you buy, including 2x4's( not only will they be tough to buy they will have serial numbers on every piece of wood). I firmly believe that schools are targeted because they are not defended. put a undercover badge and metal detector at the front where anyone coming in will have to pass. It kills me to see what these people are going through! I may be a new member but am not a stranger to firearms and seeing/hearing about violence especially where I live. I feel if you take away the prime easy targets of opportunity you will eliminate this quite a bit. btw the states with the toughest control on guns have a higher crime rate then those that do not!
also look at my signature! this statement is true beyond belief! people need to learn to protect themselves and if they are at a school then protect the kids!
Re: CT elementary school shooting.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Miles2go</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What any one of us would give to be at that school 5 minutes before Mr. Asshole showed up.
Listen guys, I'm very serious about this. Every single one of us who can CCW legally needs to do so ALL THE TIME. We are in for a political ass-whooping because of this. If everyone carried when he/she can, we'd be able to stop some of these pricks AND it would say volumes politically.
This massacre makes me sick, like if I think about those children I'll become ill. This is the worse I have felt in years, I cannot EVEN attempt to imagine what the parents feel, I would melt down if I tried, I have to block it out.
CARRY CARRY CARRY
</div></div>
Very good point. Even a lot of the fellow officers I know on my job don't carry off-duty like they should (in fact, my department mandates it, they just can't really enforce it). I carry pretty much everywhere that it is reasonably possible to do so. Some people believe this is nutty on my part, and some of my fellow officers laugh at the idea.
On the other hand, how bad would I feel if I could have been able to make a difference and failed to arm myself like I should have? I missed the church shooting in Arvada, CO (the one that ultimately ended with the same shooter dying at New Life Church in CO Springs) by literally 5 minutes. I was off-duty, out of my work jurisdiction, and on the way home from an officer's retirement party the night that shooting happened. The first responding officers were rolling hot on that call as I drove by the location. I never saw the shooter on that one, but probably missed him by mere seconds. So, whether we're on-duty, off-duty, military, civilian, or police, we all have a roll-of-the-dice chance of ending up in the middle of something like this.
In fact, an officer I know ended up in a church shooting that only ever made local news here. He was off-duty and attending church with his family on his own time. Members of his own family were wounded/killed in the shooting, and he quickly dispatched the shooter in that incident. Had he not been armed on that particular day, the situation may have ended up much like any of the more well-known mass shootings. But, he was armed, prepared, and ready to counter such a threat, and heroically saved lives when push came to shove, even despite seeing his own kin struck down in the unprovoked attack.
And, while I'm not one for chest-thumping, I'd have been morally satisfied to have had the opportunity to pit my experience/skills against a murderous coward like the one who committed this latest act. If he wants to go play billy-bad-ass-murderer with his guns, he ought to at least know the feeling of fear that you get when bullets are going in your own (his) direction.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Miles2go</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What any one of us would give to be at that school 5 minutes before Mr. Asshole showed up.
Listen guys, I'm very serious about this. Every single one of us who can CCW legally needs to do so ALL THE TIME. We are in for a political ass-whooping because of this. If everyone carried when he/she can, we'd be able to stop some of these pricks AND it would say volumes politically.
This massacre makes me sick, like if I think about those children I'll become ill. This is the worse I have felt in years, I cannot EVEN attempt to imagine what the parents feel, I would melt down if I tried, I have to block it out.
CARRY CARRY CARRY
</div></div>
Very good point. Even a lot of the fellow officers I know on my job don't carry off-duty like they should (in fact, my department mandates it, they just can't really enforce it). I carry pretty much everywhere that it is reasonably possible to do so. Some people believe this is nutty on my part, and some of my fellow officers laugh at the idea.
On the other hand, how bad would I feel if I could have been able to make a difference and failed to arm myself like I should have? I missed the church shooting in Arvada, CO (the one that ultimately ended with the same shooter dying at New Life Church in CO Springs) by literally 5 minutes. I was off-duty, out of my work jurisdiction, and on the way home from an officer's retirement party the night that shooting happened. The first responding officers were rolling hot on that call as I drove by the location. I never saw the shooter on that one, but probably missed him by mere seconds. So, whether we're on-duty, off-duty, military, civilian, or police, we all have a roll-of-the-dice chance of ending up in the middle of something like this.
In fact, an officer I know ended up in a church shooting that only ever made local news here. He was off-duty and attending church with his family on his own time. Members of his own family were wounded/killed in the shooting, and he quickly dispatched the shooter in that incident. Had he not been armed on that particular day, the situation may have ended up much like any of the more well-known mass shootings. But, he was armed, prepared, and ready to counter such a threat, and heroically saved lives when push came to shove, even despite seeing his own kin struck down in the unprovoked attack.
And, while I'm not one for chest-thumping, I'd have been morally satisfied to have had the opportunity to pit my experience/skills against a murderous coward like the one who committed this latest act. If he wants to go play billy-bad-ass-murderer with his guns, he ought to at least know the feeling of fear that you get when bullets are going in your own (his) direction.
Re: CT elementary school shooting.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Miles2go</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What any one of us would give to be at that school 5 minutes before Mr. Asshole showed up.
Listen guys, I'm very serious about this. Every single one of us who can CCW legally needs to do so ALL THE TIME. We are in for a political ass-whooping because of this. If everyone carried when he/she can, we'd be able to stop some of these pricks AND it would say volumes politically.
This massacre makes me sick, like if I think about those children I'll become ill. This is the worse I have felt in years, I cannot EVEN attempt to imagine what the parents feel, I would melt down if I tried, I have to block it out.
CARRY CARRY CARRY
</div></div>
Miles,
Unfortunately Connecticut does not allow ccw. they and a few others have the strictest gun control laws in the nation!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Miles2go</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What any one of us would give to be at that school 5 minutes before Mr. Asshole showed up.
Listen guys, I'm very serious about this. Every single one of us who can CCW legally needs to do so ALL THE TIME. We are in for a political ass-whooping because of this. If everyone carried when he/she can, we'd be able to stop some of these pricks AND it would say volumes politically.
This massacre makes me sick, like if I think about those children I'll become ill. This is the worse I have felt in years, I cannot EVEN attempt to imagine what the parents feel, I would melt down if I tried, I have to block it out.
CARRY CARRY CARRY
</div></div>
Miles,
Unfortunately Connecticut does not allow ccw. they and a few others have the strictest gun control laws in the nation!
Re: CT elementary school shooting.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HK4545</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Miles2go</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What any one of us would give to be at that school 5 minutes before Mr. Asshole showed up.
Listen guys, I'm very serious about this. Every single one of us who can CCW legally needs to do so ALL THE TIME. We are in for a political ass-whooping because of this. If everyone carried when he/she can, we'd be able to stop some of these pricks AND it would say volumes politically.
This massacre makes me sick, like if I think about those children I'll become ill. This is the worse I have felt in years, I cannot EVEN attempt to imagine what the parents feel, I would melt down if I tried, I have to block it out.
CARRY CARRY CARRY
</div></div>
Miles,
Unfortunately Connecticut does not allow ccw. they and a few others have the strictest gun control laws in the nation! </div></div>
This is false.
I have my ct ccw.
The law, however that you refer to, Is hat you cannot carry in a school zone unless you're an authority.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HK4545</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Miles2go</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What any one of us would give to be at that school 5 minutes before Mr. Asshole showed up.
Listen guys, I'm very serious about this. Every single one of us who can CCW legally needs to do so ALL THE TIME. We are in for a political ass-whooping because of this. If everyone carried when he/she can, we'd be able to stop some of these pricks AND it would say volumes politically.
This massacre makes me sick, like if I think about those children I'll become ill. This is the worse I have felt in years, I cannot EVEN attempt to imagine what the parents feel, I would melt down if I tried, I have to block it out.
CARRY CARRY CARRY
</div></div>
Miles,
Unfortunately Connecticut does not allow ccw. they and a few others have the strictest gun control laws in the nation! </div></div>
This is false.
I have my ct ccw.
The law, however that you refer to, Is hat you cannot carry in a school zone unless you're an authority.
Re: CT elementary school shooting.
I am appalled and without a clue about the how and why's. This event and its recent precedents have forced me to put down all my preconceptions and open my eyes and ears.
This insanity cannot continue. On this, I agree with our President and all those who are as frustrated as I am as to how to cope with this segment of our collective existence..
I do my utmost to obey the laws, and to support them, right or wrong, not because they are right or wrong, but because they are what our collective society has chosen as its means to address this problem. I don't like the direction or the consequences, but the alternative is anarchy, and I like that even less.
Our values are not being supported by our laws and legislators. If there is blame here, it includes our own, to at least the degree that we have failed to make our views and values adequately understood and shared by the rest of our society.
I think that part of this stems from the adversarial aspect of the debate. We are all in one boat and that boat is sinking. Gun violence is not, in any way, something we can defend or support. Whatever we do from here on, we need to recognize that we share this goal with all our fellow citizens. Unless we can all agree on a course, we will be working at odds despite our shared goal; and I think that is terminally stupid.
I am tired to death of the posturing and soap boxing. I am tired to death of preemptive ploys to prevent violence. The only way to prevent violence is to remove humanity, as a whole, from the equation. We are a violent species. Social engineering has been employed with negative consequence; I think because we, as a species, resent and resist being dominated by those in whom we place our trusts.
People can smell the BS. It doesn't work, but those who employ it simply believe they haven't tried enough. Like tic-tac-toe, the only winning strategy is not to play at all.
Right now, we are in the initial stages of the train wreck. We cannot even begin to make it right until the initial conflagration comes to its halt. It's gonna be bad, and it's gonna get a lot worse before it starts to turn around
It has started. We and our society will never be the same after yesterday's events; and I don't want it to be.
This is another senseless and debilitating tragedy. We cannot sustain a sequence of them. My prayers and sympathy are with all who are gripped within this travesty.
Greg
I am appalled and without a clue about the how and why's. This event and its recent precedents have forced me to put down all my preconceptions and open my eyes and ears.
This insanity cannot continue. On this, I agree with our President and all those who are as frustrated as I am as to how to cope with this segment of our collective existence..
I do my utmost to obey the laws, and to support them, right or wrong, not because they are right or wrong, but because they are what our collective society has chosen as its means to address this problem. I don't like the direction or the consequences, but the alternative is anarchy, and I like that even less.
Our values are not being supported by our laws and legislators. If there is blame here, it includes our own, to at least the degree that we have failed to make our views and values adequately understood and shared by the rest of our society.
I think that part of this stems from the adversarial aspect of the debate. We are all in one boat and that boat is sinking. Gun violence is not, in any way, something we can defend or support. Whatever we do from here on, we need to recognize that we share this goal with all our fellow citizens. Unless we can all agree on a course, we will be working at odds despite our shared goal; and I think that is terminally stupid.
I am tired to death of the posturing and soap boxing. I am tired to death of preemptive ploys to prevent violence. The only way to prevent violence is to remove humanity, as a whole, from the equation. We are a violent species. Social engineering has been employed with negative consequence; I think because we, as a species, resent and resist being dominated by those in whom we place our trusts.
People can smell the BS. It doesn't work, but those who employ it simply believe they haven't tried enough. Like tic-tac-toe, the only winning strategy is not to play at all.
Right now, we are in the initial stages of the train wreck. We cannot even begin to make it right until the initial conflagration comes to its halt. It's gonna be bad, and it's gonna get a lot worse before it starts to turn around
It has started. We and our society will never be the same after yesterday's events; and I don't want it to be.
This is another senseless and debilitating tragedy. We cannot sustain a sequence of them. My prayers and sympathy are with all who are gripped within this travesty.
Greg
Re: CT elementary school shooting.
It is indeed intolerable Greg.
It was in Dunblane as well. I remember feeling the same way seeing the photo below and feeling the same degree of rage and frustration. Back then my oldest girl was a kindergartner and those little, happy faces, conjuring up feelings of joy, love and eagerness hit home.
The tasks before those of us who want to end the depravity, predation, cruelty, madness, indifference and terror these children experienced ( as well as that of our society) over the last 50 years, is enormous. Thus, the straw man "Gun Violence" is the logical, lazy, focal point.
Never mind the death cult that permeates our society and the open saturation of tolerance for savagery. It is not a small concern to me that we have become completely detached from outrage over acts that would have appalled our grandparents.
They were not rubes: they simply had not been bombarded and spoon fed horse shit nor would they have tolerated the open abandonment of responsibility, deferred gratification and redefinition of monstrosities in the name of prolonging them for the profit of those who benefit from them or consume them.
Does anyone still think the euphemistic "White-Out" of over 40,000,000 abortions since 1973 has had no effect? The destruction of the African American family in order to create a monolithic voting block? The advocacy for even more dumbasses to buy shit products; AKA Marijuana legalization...
Yeah, we have some huge problems here that create far more than one or two maniacs who seem to think nothing of making a name for their pathetic lives by attacking completely innocent (And almost certain to be defenseless) people.
What are we doing about the criminals, maniacs, idiots and assholes?
I will not be distracted from this by being forced to look at the bright shiny gun.
And make no mistake, when the photos of these beautiful children, murdered by a monster, are made available, I will see in their faces my own children as well.
I too am outraged but I won't allow myself to be stampeded by those I believe are truly responsible for the nihilism and double talk that caused this.
It is indeed intolerable Greg.
It was in Dunblane as well. I remember feeling the same way seeing the photo below and feeling the same degree of rage and frustration. Back then my oldest girl was a kindergartner and those little, happy faces, conjuring up feelings of joy, love and eagerness hit home.
The tasks before those of us who want to end the depravity, predation, cruelty, madness, indifference and terror these children experienced ( as well as that of our society) over the last 50 years, is enormous. Thus, the straw man "Gun Violence" is the logical, lazy, focal point.
Never mind the death cult that permeates our society and the open saturation of tolerance for savagery. It is not a small concern to me that we have become completely detached from outrage over acts that would have appalled our grandparents.
They were not rubes: they simply had not been bombarded and spoon fed horse shit nor would they have tolerated the open abandonment of responsibility, deferred gratification and redefinition of monstrosities in the name of prolonging them for the profit of those who benefit from them or consume them.
Does anyone still think the euphemistic "White-Out" of over 40,000,000 abortions since 1973 has had no effect? The destruction of the African American family in order to create a monolithic voting block? The advocacy for even more dumbasses to buy shit products; AKA Marijuana legalization...
Yeah, we have some huge problems here that create far more than one or two maniacs who seem to think nothing of making a name for their pathetic lives by attacking completely innocent (And almost certain to be defenseless) people.
What are we doing about the criminals, maniacs, idiots and assholes?
I will not be distracted from this by being forced to look at the bright shiny gun.
And make no mistake, when the photos of these beautiful children, murdered by a monster, are made available, I will see in their faces my own children as well.
I too am outraged but I won't allow myself to be stampeded by those I believe are truly responsible for the nihilism and double talk that caused this.
Re: CT elementary school shooting.
I think that each of us needs to decide whether we seek a personal vindication for our own arguing points, or a successful resolution to this problem for the common good.
Conflict breeds only one outcome, casualties. We have had way more than enough of them.
Greg
I think that each of us needs to decide whether we seek a personal vindication for our own arguing points, or a successful resolution to this problem for the common good.
Conflict breeds only one outcome, casualties. We have had way more than enough of them.
Greg
Re: CT elementary school shooting.
This could very well be one of the biggest single events in American History. Most here realize this coward could have ran these kids over with his car as they waited for the bus and that act wouldn't have had near the political fallout. With the political environment, makers vs. takers, and the fears of losing fundamental rights with every new law or agency, this single event could be the springboard for some of the darkest days in America. Perhaps the world. I will not spout a bunch of anti-government lunacy on a public internet forum, but it seems we as a "civilized" society are closer to all-out chaos than ever before. Major historical events are always traced back to a smaller one that provided the catalyst. I fear the minute a sweeping gun ban/control named after one of these children hits the news.
This could very well be one of the biggest single events in American History. Most here realize this coward could have ran these kids over with his car as they waited for the bus and that act wouldn't have had near the political fallout. With the political environment, makers vs. takers, and the fears of losing fundamental rights with every new law or agency, this single event could be the springboard for some of the darkest days in America. Perhaps the world. I will not spout a bunch of anti-government lunacy on a public internet forum, but it seems we as a "civilized" society are closer to all-out chaos than ever before. Major historical events are always traced back to a smaller one that provided the catalyst. I fear the minute a sweeping gun ban/control named after one of these children hits the news.
Re: CT elementary school shooting.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I am tired to death of preemptive ploys to prevent violence. The only way to prevent violence is to remove humanity, as a whole, from the equation. We are a violent species.</div></div>
Couldn't agree more. Where there's a will, there's a way, be it gun, bomb, or kitchen knife. This event was an anomaly and the only way to prevent it is to highly infringe on everybody's rights (which is the road we're on).
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I am tired to death of preemptive ploys to prevent violence. The only way to prevent violence is to remove humanity, as a whole, from the equation. We are a violent species.</div></div>
Couldn't agree more. Where there's a will, there's a way, be it gun, bomb, or kitchen knife. This event was an anomaly and the only way to prevent it is to highly infringe on everybody's rights (which is the road we're on).
Re: CT elementary school shooting.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dang472</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This could very well be one of the biggest single events in American History. </div></div>
I don't think so. We're just in knee-jerk mode right now but if there's one thing you can count on, it's America's short term memory. Think about the Amish school house where this same thing happened a while back, bet you forgot all about that but it was huge news for about a week. My point is that while it's tragic and I'm sick of it, I'm also aware that it's not the last time this will happen and the next time it happens it's be the "biggest single events" too. Like Greg said, the only way we'll never hear this story again is to hit the delete button on humanity.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dang472</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This could very well be one of the biggest single events in American History. </div></div>
I don't think so. We're just in knee-jerk mode right now but if there's one thing you can count on, it's America's short term memory. Think about the Amish school house where this same thing happened a while back, bet you forgot all about that but it was huge news for about a week. My point is that while it's tragic and I'm sick of it, I'm also aware that it's not the last time this will happen and the next time it happens it's be the "biggest single events" too. Like Greg said, the only way we'll never hear this story again is to hit the delete button on humanity.
Re: CT elementary school shooting.
It if high time we re evaluate our Mental Health Care System. Here is ANOTHER case of a person with a "Personality Disorder" that has "slipped through the cracks", told to play video games and has been free to roam our streets, and interact with society in a way which HE sees fit.
Since the dis-assembly of our Mental Health Care System in the 80's there has been an increasingly alarming number of these types of incidents. Today there is no recourse for Dr's, PD, EMS, or family to remove these potentially dangerous people from the general population. Even when they recognize the potential for sociopathic behavior. Lets keep em quiet and hopefully they won't bother anyone. As archaic as that system was perceived, the fact remains that as long as there was a means to provide care, and separation for those with sociopathic and homocidal traits off the streets the incidents of these types of events were much lower.
It if high time we re evaluate our Mental Health Care System. Here is ANOTHER case of a person with a "Personality Disorder" that has "slipped through the cracks", told to play video games and has been free to roam our streets, and interact with society in a way which HE sees fit.
Since the dis-assembly of our Mental Health Care System in the 80's there has been an increasingly alarming number of these types of incidents. Today there is no recourse for Dr's, PD, EMS, or family to remove these potentially dangerous people from the general population. Even when they recognize the potential for sociopathic behavior. Lets keep em quiet and hopefully they won't bother anyone. As archaic as that system was perceived, the fact remains that as long as there was a means to provide care, and separation for those with sociopathic and homocidal traits off the streets the incidents of these types of events were much lower.
Re: CT elementary school shooting.
So sad, too much stupid to process.
My prayers go the the families and the community.
garett
So sad, too much stupid to process.
My prayers go the the families and the community.
garett
Re: CT elementary school shooting.
I have intentionally NOT posted on this subject before now. Our youngest daughter went back to college and has put herself through a 4 year program to become a teacher. She graduates this coming spring. She can shoot. I gave her a Glock 30 in 45 acp a few years back. But in Tennessee the only people that can carry on school grounds are law enforcement officers.
I still have a few contacts in both the city PD and the sheriff's department. Maybe...
Back to the original subject. There cannot be enough prayers said for the families involved in this. But we have started. Please do the same.
I have intentionally NOT posted on this subject before now. Our youngest daughter went back to college and has put herself through a 4 year program to become a teacher. She graduates this coming spring. She can shoot. I gave her a Glock 30 in 45 acp a few years back. But in Tennessee the only people that can carry on school grounds are law enforcement officers.
I still have a few contacts in both the city PD and the sheriff's department. Maybe...
Back to the original subject. There cannot be enough prayers said for the families involved in this. But we have started. Please do the same.
Re: CT elementary school shooting.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: In2b8u</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Today there is no recourse for Dr's, PD, EMS, or family to remove these potentially dangerous people from the general population. Even when they recognize the <span style="color: #FF0000">potential</span> for sociopathic behavior.
the fact remains that as long as there was a means to provide care, and separation for those with sociopathic and homocidal traits off the streets the incidents of these types of events were much lower. </div></div>
Careful what you wish for... When that kind of power is given to people, they tend to use it especially when you give them the leeway by adding in the "potential" wildcard like you did. That pretty much covers every human on the planet.
Your lack of perspective is troubling. I know you're in knee-jerk mode right now but is it possible in your mind that maybe school shootings are just the latest trend? Or maybe these types of events get more coverage now than they did back then? Or perhaps this one is just the freshest in your mind so it seems like the most relevant event ever? There have been mass murders for millions of years. This one, while again is very tragic, is not even a drop in the bucket compared to many others in our past. How many children pointlessly die in car accidents everyday? I'd bet it's many times the amount that were killed yesterday but I bet you didn't even think about that. Think about the long term ratifications of what you're saying and if it would even make any positive difference before you jump on the bandwagon...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: In2b8u</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Today there is no recourse for Dr's, PD, EMS, or family to remove these potentially dangerous people from the general population. Even when they recognize the <span style="color: #FF0000">potential</span> for sociopathic behavior.
the fact remains that as long as there was a means to provide care, and separation for those with sociopathic and homocidal traits off the streets the incidents of these types of events were much lower. </div></div>
Careful what you wish for... When that kind of power is given to people, they tend to use it especially when you give them the leeway by adding in the "potential" wildcard like you did. That pretty much covers every human on the planet.
Your lack of perspective is troubling. I know you're in knee-jerk mode right now but is it possible in your mind that maybe school shootings are just the latest trend? Or maybe these types of events get more coverage now than they did back then? Or perhaps this one is just the freshest in your mind so it seems like the most relevant event ever? There have been mass murders for millions of years. This one, while again is very tragic, is not even a drop in the bucket compared to many others in our past. How many children pointlessly die in car accidents everyday? I'd bet it's many times the amount that were killed yesterday but I bet you didn't even think about that. Think about the long term ratifications of what you're saying and if it would even make any positive difference before you jump on the bandwagon...
Re: CT elementary school shooting.
I have read this question several times here: What can we do to keep this from happening?
While I am certain that no "one thing" caused/allowed this to happen (from a societal perspective), one thing I do is refuse to speak/write the perp's name.
Think about how many mass murderers', serial killers', terrorists',assassins' names you know. For me personally, it's staggering.
The media immortalizes thes guys.
And, like it or not, I'd bet my bottom dollar that RIGHT NOW there is a lost soul somewhere in this country thinking to himself, "Yesterday that guy was a nobody, and now just look at him! That could be me."
I have read this question several times here: What can we do to keep this from happening?
While I am certain that no "one thing" caused/allowed this to happen (from a societal perspective), one thing I do is refuse to speak/write the perp's name.
Think about how many mass murderers', serial killers', terrorists',assassins' names you know. For me personally, it's staggering.
The media immortalizes thes guys.
And, like it or not, I'd bet my bottom dollar that RIGHT NOW there is a lost soul somewhere in this country thinking to himself, "Yesterday that guy was a nobody, and now just look at him! That could be me."
Re: CT elementary school shooting.
<span style="font-size: 11pt">Solutions have to be numerous. There is not only one answer. Violence in movies in the form of special affects using guns like Rambo, and video games, are first of all silly, but most of all, they somehow make nitwits who don't fee loved or who are otherwise inadequate, mistakenly believe gun use brings validation or vindication. We have failed our kids. A kid who commits an act like this had probably been ignored or abused. We as voting citizens have remained idle while Hollywood produces media, and our government produces war, that glorifies killing. So theres a lack or complete absence of meaningful spirituality in our country. Getting where we are took a long time and getting out will as well.
The problem of responsible gun ownership, to be sure, is not with we the people of this site. The problem is with others who use guns to kill, but we, as responsible owners, retailers and smiths can lead the charge to re-constitute rules of use and possession. For example, I think a citizen purchasing a firearm for the first time, and those other than competitive shooters, collectors, CCW's, LE's, Mil, should be required to train as a shooter and owner. All owners should be required to own safes for responsible security of our firearms. Many of these clowns get their guns by theft of home and auto.
As lawyers we have a disciplinary committee who investigate, and report to the Supreme Court, ethical misconduct by attorneys. Doctors do too. We attorneys police our own. For example, because he has nothing intelligent to write, not just any penis-head like Joe-in-Texas above should own or carry.
So the solutions are numerous, spanning from responsible media, family life, and gun ownership. Posting on a site like this by errant clowns harms our cause of legal, responsible sportsmanship. Before posting, consider that your post is in cyber land forever for everyone to read. Use appropriate discretion.
</span>
I'll offer this prayer:
<span style="color: #CC33CC">In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, (and Krishna, Buddha, Mohammed) we pray:
God, grant that we may have the gift of discernment to know when our children need our attention, the patience and selflessness to give it to them, and the love to sustain it. Understanding you is not our job, but help us to do our job as parents, employees, friends, brothers and sisters to recognize another in need of attention so that we might alleviate individual human suffering before its too late; to understand our selves. We pray that the souls of all the victims of death yesterday be in repose with you today and that we might have the gift of fellowship to lend a hand to the surviving families; that they may be strengthened with peace; that we may know responsible ownership such that our hobby does not cause needless human pain and death; that we may remain in fervent prayer for the families and children witnesses of yesterday. Help us to know what love is, and then to do it, not according to our discretion, but according to yours. Amen.
P.S. Forgive me for calling Joe-in-Texas a penis-head.
</span>
<span style="font-size: 11pt">Solutions have to be numerous. There is not only one answer. Violence in movies in the form of special affects using guns like Rambo, and video games, are first of all silly, but most of all, they somehow make nitwits who don't fee loved or who are otherwise inadequate, mistakenly believe gun use brings validation or vindication. We have failed our kids. A kid who commits an act like this had probably been ignored or abused. We as voting citizens have remained idle while Hollywood produces media, and our government produces war, that glorifies killing. So theres a lack or complete absence of meaningful spirituality in our country. Getting where we are took a long time and getting out will as well.
The problem of responsible gun ownership, to be sure, is not with we the people of this site. The problem is with others who use guns to kill, but we, as responsible owners, retailers and smiths can lead the charge to re-constitute rules of use and possession. For example, I think a citizen purchasing a firearm for the first time, and those other than competitive shooters, collectors, CCW's, LE's, Mil, should be required to train as a shooter and owner. All owners should be required to own safes for responsible security of our firearms. Many of these clowns get their guns by theft of home and auto.
As lawyers we have a disciplinary committee who investigate, and report to the Supreme Court, ethical misconduct by attorneys. Doctors do too. We attorneys police our own. For example, because he has nothing intelligent to write, not just any penis-head like Joe-in-Texas above should own or carry.
So the solutions are numerous, spanning from responsible media, family life, and gun ownership. Posting on a site like this by errant clowns harms our cause of legal, responsible sportsmanship. Before posting, consider that your post is in cyber land forever for everyone to read. Use appropriate discretion.
</span>
I'll offer this prayer:
<span style="color: #CC33CC">In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, (and Krishna, Buddha, Mohammed) we pray:
God, grant that we may have the gift of discernment to know when our children need our attention, the patience and selflessness to give it to them, and the love to sustain it. Understanding you is not our job, but help us to do our job as parents, employees, friends, brothers and sisters to recognize another in need of attention so that we might alleviate individual human suffering before its too late; to understand our selves. We pray that the souls of all the victims of death yesterday be in repose with you today and that we might have the gift of fellowship to lend a hand to the surviving families; that they may be strengthened with peace; that we may know responsible ownership such that our hobby does not cause needless human pain and death; that we may remain in fervent prayer for the families and children witnesses of yesterday. Help us to know what love is, and then to do it, not according to our discretion, but according to yours. Amen.
P.S. Forgive me for calling Joe-in-Texas a penis-head.
</span>
Re: CT elementary school shooting.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Masked</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HK4545</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Miles2go</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What any one of us would give to be at that school 5 minutes before Mr. Asshole showed up.
Listen guys, I'm very serious about this. Every single one of us who can CCW legally needs to do so ALL THE TIME. We are in for a political ass-whooping because of this. If everyone carried when he/she can, we'd be able to stop some of these pricks AND it would say volumes politically.
This massacre makes me sick, like if I think about those children I'll become ill. This is the worse I have felt in years, I cannot EVEN attempt to imagine what the parents feel, I would melt down if I tried, I have to block it out.
CARRY CARRY CARRY
</div></div>
Miles,
Unfortunately Connecticut does not allow ccw. they and a few others have the strictest gun control laws in the nation! </div></div>
This is false.
I have my ct ccw.
The law, however that you refer to, Is hat you cannot carry in a school zone unless you're an authority. </div></div>
Exchanges like this here piss me off. We need accurate information, especially at times like this, not conjecture from Captain Keyboard of the Internet Patrol. Save the WAGs for media hacks who call everything long an AK47.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Masked</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HK4545</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Miles2go</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What any one of us would give to be at that school 5 minutes before Mr. Asshole showed up.
Listen guys, I'm very serious about this. Every single one of us who can CCW legally needs to do so ALL THE TIME. We are in for a political ass-whooping because of this. If everyone carried when he/she can, we'd be able to stop some of these pricks AND it would say volumes politically.
This massacre makes me sick, like if I think about those children I'll become ill. This is the worse I have felt in years, I cannot EVEN attempt to imagine what the parents feel, I would melt down if I tried, I have to block it out.
CARRY CARRY CARRY
</div></div>
Miles,
Unfortunately Connecticut does not allow ccw. they and a few others have the strictest gun control laws in the nation! </div></div>
This is false.
I have my ct ccw.
The law, however that you refer to, Is hat you cannot carry in a school zone unless you're an authority. </div></div>
Exchanges like this here piss me off. We need accurate information, especially at times like this, not conjecture from Captain Keyboard of the Internet Patrol. Save the WAGs for media hacks who call everything long an AK47.
Re: CT elementary school shooting.
I completely agree with you, High Binder, that this event will probably be replaced in a week with more fiscal posturing and American Idol. It's really in the politician's hands (scary) in regards to the impact of the event. Hypothetically, if "Christina's Law of 2012" enacts gun legislation to a degree we never seen, and thus the chaos that seems to be lurking starts, THIS school shooting will be looked back on as one of the largest events in American History. All of this is speculation on my part of course, but it's really in the hands of our lawmakers on how history remembers this tragedy.
I completely agree with you, High Binder, that this event will probably be replaced in a week with more fiscal posturing and American Idol. It's really in the politician's hands (scary) in regards to the impact of the event. Hypothetically, if "Christina's Law of 2012" enacts gun legislation to a degree we never seen, and thus the chaos that seems to be lurking starts, THIS school shooting will be looked back on as one of the largest events in American History. All of this is speculation on my part of course, but it's really in the hands of our lawmakers on how history remembers this tragedy.
Re: CT elementary school shooting.
This shooting actually caused me to think about American Muslims. I was a senior in high school for 9/11. There wasn't a whole lot of deep thoughts at the time. I feel this coward hijacked my passionate hobby and American culture of freedom by using a gun to commit this tragedy. I am more angry as a responsible gun owner than probably most passerbys reading this story on Facebook. I think back to thousands of America-loving citizens who practiced peaceful Islam. I can only assume the anger felt for a group of people to hijack your way of thinking to do enormous harm.
With the holidays around the corner, prepare yourself for the social battle that will surely take place. If you're like me, you're probably labeled the "gun guy" in the family. You will be looked at as part of the reason this happened. It won't make sense, it doesn't have to. You will find yourself defending your "need" for an AR15. Parents of autistic/social disorder kids will not be looked at with the same contempt (rightfully so), but you will.
This shooting actually caused me to think about American Muslims. I was a senior in high school for 9/11. There wasn't a whole lot of deep thoughts at the time. I feel this coward hijacked my passionate hobby and American culture of freedom by using a gun to commit this tragedy. I am more angry as a responsible gun owner than probably most passerbys reading this story on Facebook. I think back to thousands of America-loving citizens who practiced peaceful Islam. I can only assume the anger felt for a group of people to hijack your way of thinking to do enormous harm.
With the holidays around the corner, prepare yourself for the social battle that will surely take place. If you're like me, you're probably labeled the "gun guy" in the family. You will be looked at as part of the reason this happened. It won't make sense, it doesn't have to. You will find yourself defending your "need" for an AR15. Parents of autistic/social disorder kids will not be looked at with the same contempt (rightfully so), but you will.
Re: CT elementary school shooting.
Actually, the wife informed me (she'd know these things) that the economy goes beyond BINGO on either the 17th or the 18th with respect to the "fiscal cliff" situation, so the timing here aids the administration.
Actually, the wife informed me (she'd know these things) that the economy goes beyond BINGO on either the 17th or the 18th with respect to the "fiscal cliff" situation, so the timing here aids the administration.
Re: CT elementary school shooting.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Veer_G</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Masked</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HK4545</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Miles2go</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What any one of us would give to be at that school 5 minutes before Mr. Asshole showed up.
Listen guys, I'm very serious about this. Every single one of us who can CCW legally needs to do so ALL THE TIME. We are in for a political ass-whooping because of this. If everyone carried when he/she can, we'd be able to stop some of these pricks AND it would say volumes politically.
This massacre makes me sick, like if I think about those children I'll become ill. This is the worse I have felt in years, I cannot EVEN attempt to imagine what the parents feel, I would melt down if I tried, I have to block it out.
CARRY CARRY CARRY
</div></div>
Miles,
Unfortunately Connecticut does not allow ccw. they and a few others have the strictest gun control laws in the nation! </div></div>
This is false.
I have my ct ccw.
The law, however that you refer to, Is hat you cannot carry in a school zone unless you're an authority. </div></div>
Exchanges like this here piss me off. We need accurate information, especially at times like this, not conjecture from Captain Keyboard of the Internet Patrol. Save the WAGs for media hacks who call everything long an AK47. </div></div>
Sorry, I was mistaken! They do not accept my ccw permit! Did not mean to cause a ruckus! I can acknowledge when I am wrong.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Veer_G</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Masked</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HK4545</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Miles2go</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What any one of us would give to be at that school 5 minutes before Mr. Asshole showed up.
Listen guys, I'm very serious about this. Every single one of us who can CCW legally needs to do so ALL THE TIME. We are in for a political ass-whooping because of this. If everyone carried when he/she can, we'd be able to stop some of these pricks AND it would say volumes politically.
This massacre makes me sick, like if I think about those children I'll become ill. This is the worse I have felt in years, I cannot EVEN attempt to imagine what the parents feel, I would melt down if I tried, I have to block it out.
CARRY CARRY CARRY
</div></div>
Miles,
Unfortunately Connecticut does not allow ccw. they and a few others have the strictest gun control laws in the nation! </div></div>
This is false.
I have my ct ccw.
The law, however that you refer to, Is hat you cannot carry in a school zone unless you're an authority. </div></div>
Exchanges like this here piss me off. We need accurate information, especially at times like this, not conjecture from Captain Keyboard of the Internet Patrol. Save the WAGs for media hacks who call everything long an AK47. </div></div>
Sorry, I was mistaken! They do not accept my ccw permit! Did not mean to cause a ruckus! I can acknowledge when I am wrong.
Re: CT elementary school shooting.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dang472</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This shooting actually caused me to think about American Muslims. I was a senior in high school for 9/11. There wasn't a whole lot of deep thoughts at the time. I feel this coward hijacked my passionate hobby and American culture of freedom by using a gun to commit this tragedy. I am more angry as a responsible gun owner than probably most passerbys reading this story on Facebook. I think back to thousands of America-loving citizens who practiced peaceful Islam. I can only assume the anger felt for a group of people to hijack your way of thinking to do enormous harm. </div></div>
Very good point!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dang472</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This shooting actually caused me to think about American Muslims. I was a senior in high school for 9/11. There wasn't a whole lot of deep thoughts at the time. I feel this coward hijacked my passionate hobby and American culture of freedom by using a gun to commit this tragedy. I am more angry as a responsible gun owner than probably most passerbys reading this story on Facebook. I think back to thousands of America-loving citizens who practiced peaceful Islam. I can only assume the anger felt for a group of people to hijack your way of thinking to do enormous harm. </div></div>
Very good point!
Re: CT elementary school shooting.
So unbelievably shocking and so damn sad !
Life is so cheap to a little prick like this ... I was truly stuck for words suppose I still Am ... Was looking at twitter last night and 2 people of note made comments that infuriated me
1) Salman Rushdie : calling for the usual gun bans . He replied to a comment I made that good guys heavily armed protected him against bad guys with guns who wanted to do him harm ... Got the usual verbal garbage about being a right wing gun nut and all that stuff but no one could actually answer me in a calm logical manner ... Noone !
2: Rupert Murdoch ::
I actually replied to his comment and said clearly that coming from a man calling for gun bans whose company hacks te phones of mirdered schoolgirls that I found his comments insincere to say the least ...
I asked him how many armed men his company employs to protect h and his momey and of course I got no reply ...
Me I went and bought more ammunition today ...
I tell you want does worry me though ... A lot of people are freaked out by this end of the world BS on the 21st December ... I think we may get more of these incidents in the next few days ... I certainly hope I'm wrong !
So unbelievably shocking and so damn sad !
Life is so cheap to a little prick like this ... I was truly stuck for words suppose I still Am ... Was looking at twitter last night and 2 people of note made comments that infuriated me
1) Salman Rushdie : calling for the usual gun bans . He replied to a comment I made that good guys heavily armed protected him against bad guys with guns who wanted to do him harm ... Got the usual verbal garbage about being a right wing gun nut and all that stuff but no one could actually answer me in a calm logical manner ... Noone !
2: Rupert Murdoch ::
I actually replied to his comment and said clearly that coming from a man calling for gun bans whose company hacks te phones of mirdered schoolgirls that I found his comments insincere to say the least ...
I asked him how many armed men his company employs to protect h and his momey and of course I got no reply ...
Me I went and bought more ammunition today ...
I tell you want does worry me though ... A lot of people are freaked out by this end of the world BS on the 21st December ... I think we may get more of these incidents in the next few days ... I certainly hope I'm wrong !
Re: CT elementary school shooting.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eddieo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1) Salman Rushdie </div></div>
I saw him in JFK on Thurs...if only i knew.
My heart and thoughts go out to the families and their loved ones. Truly tragic.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eddieo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1) Salman Rushdie </div></div>
I saw him in JFK on Thurs...if only i knew.
My heart and thoughts go out to the families and their loved ones. Truly tragic.
Re: CT elementary school shooting.
OK folks, let me throw a few things out here, for your contemplation. Do with it or don't do with it, at your will.
It seems to me that the majority of 'high-profile-media-events' lately has been perpetrated by individuals who had "one mental issue or another". So using the popular 'mob rules mentality', let us all push for "laws against mental illness". And make the penalties for mental illness, severe. (give it a minute)
Please remember what happened up here in Canada, so long ago. (about 20 years ago) It was in a school in Montreal, most specifically. The school was called "Ecole Polytechnique", and there was an individual who went in there and did a similar dastardly deed. (No, his name does not deserve to exist, let alone be mentioned) Point is, after said event, Canada went and did a MAJOR LAW CHANGE, to which there were repercussions for EACH AND EVERY LAW ABIDING CITIZEN here in Canada.
And just this past summer, (finally) this one particular part of that law which made the biggest change, took the longest to 'enforce(?)', and cost the most money, was RESCINDED. Squashed. Cancelled. Deleted.
Why?
Simply because it was Absolutely Ineffective. There are still remnants of the other things passed, but the largest of which was stricken from the books, simply because over a decade of its existence has proven itself to be ineffective, of no use, windowdressing for the deluded, and a cash-cow for themselves at the same time.
As much as I want to say these following words are my original thoughts, I cannot. Someone else here had said these, just a few days ago. Ready, here it comes:
Firearms restrictions and bans, you think that's the answer?
What about drug bans and prohibitions? How's that working out for you?
The laws, they are effective, aren't they?
Only to the law abiding.
How many of US out there, are law abiding citizens? Looking at the numbers, what is the proportion of good vs. bad 'people' out there? And yes, I too believe that the "mental health facilities" should be re-opened. More oversight can and should be used with it, but to do nothing for those who need it, is inhumane to us all.
So in the intent of keeping things political OUT of this thread, if anyone needs further details either google it, or contact me via PM, and I'll point you in the right direction.
OK folks, let me throw a few things out here, for your contemplation. Do with it or don't do with it, at your will.
It seems to me that the majority of 'high-profile-media-events' lately has been perpetrated by individuals who had "one mental issue or another". So using the popular 'mob rules mentality', let us all push for "laws against mental illness". And make the penalties for mental illness, severe. (give it a minute)
Please remember what happened up here in Canada, so long ago. (about 20 years ago) It was in a school in Montreal, most specifically. The school was called "Ecole Polytechnique", and there was an individual who went in there and did a similar dastardly deed. (No, his name does not deserve to exist, let alone be mentioned) Point is, after said event, Canada went and did a MAJOR LAW CHANGE, to which there were repercussions for EACH AND EVERY LAW ABIDING CITIZEN here in Canada.
And just this past summer, (finally) this one particular part of that law which made the biggest change, took the longest to 'enforce(?)', and cost the most money, was RESCINDED. Squashed. Cancelled. Deleted.
Why?
Simply because it was Absolutely Ineffective. There are still remnants of the other things passed, but the largest of which was stricken from the books, simply because over a decade of its existence has proven itself to be ineffective, of no use, windowdressing for the deluded, and a cash-cow for themselves at the same time.
As much as I want to say these following words are my original thoughts, I cannot. Someone else here had said these, just a few days ago. Ready, here it comes:
Firearms restrictions and bans, you think that's the answer?
What about drug bans and prohibitions? How's that working out for you?
The laws, they are effective, aren't they?
Only to the law abiding.
How many of US out there, are law abiding citizens? Looking at the numbers, what is the proportion of good vs. bad 'people' out there? And yes, I too believe that the "mental health facilities" should be re-opened. More oversight can and should be used with it, but to do nothing for those who need it, is inhumane to us all.
So in the intent of keeping things political OUT of this thread, if anyone needs further details either google it, or contact me via PM, and I'll point you in the right direction.
Re: CT elementary school shooting.
High Binder,
You are correct, potential is the wrong word. I do apologize. Re reading it reminds me of that stupid Tom Cruise movie that people arrested you before the crime was done. And you are correct that would be a horrible thing to wish for.
It is not my lack of perspective. It is a growing frustration, over the last several decades with the increasing lack of intervention of health care system. So frustrating to identify a person at risk (if not to others, themselves), and not be able to enter them in to a system of care that will identify, evaluate, re evaluate, enforce compliance of care or remove people that have been diagnosed with sociopathic or homicidal behavior. Whether it is a case of long term illness or an extremis of sudden onset.
I feel our current MH system needs an evaluation of the current status. Almost all of the perps in recent history of mass shootings in the US have had a documented hx of personality disorders for lack of a more clear diagnosis.
I agree, I am searching for a way to wrap my head around this one. And yes, a knee jerk reaction was delivered. It is too soon to judge because all of the information is not in yet. I will place a bet with you though that this individual will have a past of MH issues.
I strongly agree with Casey, there is no single cure. A change of moral compass? Less tolerance of indifference? Reduced acceptance of violence in entertainment? Personal responsibility and accountability for all? Who knows. I do know that being a parent, a shooter, and a responsible person (I try) that this single act is incomprehensible to me. Sorry for the rant, just searching for a reason.
High Binder,
You are correct, potential is the wrong word. I do apologize. Re reading it reminds me of that stupid Tom Cruise movie that people arrested you before the crime was done. And you are correct that would be a horrible thing to wish for.
It is not my lack of perspective. It is a growing frustration, over the last several decades with the increasing lack of intervention of health care system. So frustrating to identify a person at risk (if not to others, themselves), and not be able to enter them in to a system of care that will identify, evaluate, re evaluate, enforce compliance of care or remove people that have been diagnosed with sociopathic or homicidal behavior. Whether it is a case of long term illness or an extremis of sudden onset.
I feel our current MH system needs an evaluation of the current status. Almost all of the perps in recent history of mass shootings in the US have had a documented hx of personality disorders for lack of a more clear diagnosis.
I agree, I am searching for a way to wrap my head around this one. And yes, a knee jerk reaction was delivered. It is too soon to judge because all of the information is not in yet. I will place a bet with you though that this individual will have a past of MH issues.
I strongly agree with Casey, there is no single cure. A change of moral compass? Less tolerance of indifference? Reduced acceptance of violence in entertainment? Personal responsibility and accountability for all? Who knows. I do know that being a parent, a shooter, and a responsible person (I try) that this single act is incomprehensible to me. Sorry for the rant, just searching for a reason.
Re: CT elementary school shooting.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sean the Nailer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OK folks, let me throw a few things out here, for your contemplation. Do with it or don't do with it, at your will.
It seems to me that the majority of 'high-profile-media-events' lately has been perpetrated by individuals who had "one mental issue or another". So using the popular 'mob rules mentality', let us all push for "laws against mental illness". And make the penalties for mental illness, severe. (give it a minute)
Please remember what happened up here in Canada, so long ago. (about 20 years ago) It was in a school in Montreal, most specifically. The school was called "Ecole Polytechnique", and there was an individual who went in there and did a similar dastardly deed. (No, his name does not deserve to exist, let alone be mentioned) Point is, after said event, Canada went and did a MAJOR LAW CHANGE, to which there were repercussions for EACH AND EVERY LAW ABIDING CITIZEN here in Canada.
And just this past summer, (finally) this one particular part of that law which made the biggest change, took the longest to 'enforce(?)', and cost the most money, was RESCINDED. Squashed. Cancelled. Deleted.
Why?
Simply because it was Absolutely Ineffective. There are still remnants of the other things passed, but the largest of which was stricken from the books, simply because over a decade of its existence has proven itself to be ineffective, of no use, windowdressing for the deluded, and a cash-cow for themselves at the same time.
As much as I want to say these following words are my original thoughts, I cannot. Someone else here had said these, just a few days ago. Ready, here it comes:
Firearms restrictions and bans, you think that's the answer?
What about drug bans and prohibitions? How's that working out for you?
The laws, they are effective, aren't they?
Only to the law abiding.
How many of US out there, are law abiding citizens? Looking at the numbers, what is the proportion of good vs. bad 'people' out there? And yes, I too believe that the "mental health facilities" should be re-opened. More oversight can and should be used with it, but to do nothing for those who need it, is inhumane to us all.
So in the intent of keeping things political OUT of this thread, if anyone needs further details either google it, or contact me via PM, and I'll point you in the right direction. </div></div>
For the record there are few to zero 'law abiding' among us. There are so many convoluted laws on the books that the average American probably commits 5 felonies a year without even knowing.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sean the Nailer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OK folks, let me throw a few things out here, for your contemplation. Do with it or don't do with it, at your will.
It seems to me that the majority of 'high-profile-media-events' lately has been perpetrated by individuals who had "one mental issue or another". So using the popular 'mob rules mentality', let us all push for "laws against mental illness". And make the penalties for mental illness, severe. (give it a minute)
Please remember what happened up here in Canada, so long ago. (about 20 years ago) It was in a school in Montreal, most specifically. The school was called "Ecole Polytechnique", and there was an individual who went in there and did a similar dastardly deed. (No, his name does not deserve to exist, let alone be mentioned) Point is, after said event, Canada went and did a MAJOR LAW CHANGE, to which there were repercussions for EACH AND EVERY LAW ABIDING CITIZEN here in Canada.
And just this past summer, (finally) this one particular part of that law which made the biggest change, took the longest to 'enforce(?)', and cost the most money, was RESCINDED. Squashed. Cancelled. Deleted.
Why?
Simply because it was Absolutely Ineffective. There are still remnants of the other things passed, but the largest of which was stricken from the books, simply because over a decade of its existence has proven itself to be ineffective, of no use, windowdressing for the deluded, and a cash-cow for themselves at the same time.
As much as I want to say these following words are my original thoughts, I cannot. Someone else here had said these, just a few days ago. Ready, here it comes:
Firearms restrictions and bans, you think that's the answer?
What about drug bans and prohibitions? How's that working out for you?
The laws, they are effective, aren't they?
Only to the law abiding.
How many of US out there, are law abiding citizens? Looking at the numbers, what is the proportion of good vs. bad 'people' out there? And yes, I too believe that the "mental health facilities" should be re-opened. More oversight can and should be used with it, but to do nothing for those who need it, is inhumane to us all.
So in the intent of keeping things political OUT of this thread, if anyone needs further details either google it, or contact me via PM, and I'll point you in the right direction. </div></div>
For the record there are few to zero 'law abiding' among us. There are so many convoluted laws on the books that the average American probably commits 5 felonies a year without even knowing.
Re: CT elementary school shooting.
I'm digusted and saddened by this event, but not suprised.
Americans are full of fear these days.
We think that our economy is screwed. The unusual weather patterns have many thinking our environment is screwed. On any given night you can find end of the world programs on television. Often on channels that claim to be science oriented.
Our collective attitude is shit. It doesn't suprise me in the least that individuals on the fringes, who lack the tools necessary to deal with these fears are snapping like frozen branches in a strong wind.
I'm digusted and saddened by this event, but not suprised.
Americans are full of fear these days.
We think that our economy is screwed. The unusual weather patterns have many thinking our environment is screwed. On any given night you can find end of the world programs on television. Often on channels that claim to be science oriented.
Our collective attitude is shit. It doesn't suprise me in the least that individuals on the fringes, who lack the tools necessary to deal with these fears are snapping like frozen branches in a strong wind.
Re: CT elementary school shooting.
We should all be doing a few things right now:
1) If you have children, hug them and tell them you love them.
2) Say a prayer for the little souls and their families in CT.
3) Start thinking RIGHT NOW about new ideas to try and prevent this from happening again.
We should all be doing a few things right now:
1) If you have children, hug them and tell them you love them.
2) Say a prayer for the little souls and their families in CT.
3) Start thinking RIGHT NOW about new ideas to try and prevent this from happening again.
Re: CT elementary school shooting.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: In2b8u</div><div class="ubbcode-body">High Binder,
You are correct, potential is the wrong word. I do apologize. Re reading it reminds me of that stupid Tom Cruise movie that people arrested you before the crime was done. And you are correct that would be a horrible thing to wish for.
It is not my lack of perspective. It is a growing frustration, over the last several decades with the increasing lack of intervention of health care system. So frustrating to identify a person at risk (if not to others, themselves), and not be able to enter them in to a system of care that will identify, evaluate, re evaluate, enforce compliance of care or remove people that have been diagnosed with sociopathic or homicidal behavior. Whether it is a case of long term illness or an extremis of sudden onset.
I feel our current MH system needs an evaluation of the current status. Almost all of the perps in recent history of mass shootings in the US have had a documented hx of personality disorders for lack of a more clear diagnosis.
I agree, I am searching for a way to wrap my head around this one. And yes, a knee jerk reaction was delivered. It is too soon to judge because all of the information is not in yet. I will place a bet with you though that this individual will have a past of MH issues. </div></div>
10-4 and I agree and it looks like he not only had prior issues but he also had some kind of altercation with the school staff two days before. The news is saying after that altercation with the school's staff he went and tried to buy a gun but was blocked by the state's waiting period which is why he stole the guns from his family.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: In2b8u</div><div class="ubbcode-body">High Binder,
You are correct, potential is the wrong word. I do apologize. Re reading it reminds me of that stupid Tom Cruise movie that people arrested you before the crime was done. And you are correct that would be a horrible thing to wish for.
It is not my lack of perspective. It is a growing frustration, over the last several decades with the increasing lack of intervention of health care system. So frustrating to identify a person at risk (if not to others, themselves), and not be able to enter them in to a system of care that will identify, evaluate, re evaluate, enforce compliance of care or remove people that have been diagnosed with sociopathic or homicidal behavior. Whether it is a case of long term illness or an extremis of sudden onset.
I feel our current MH system needs an evaluation of the current status. Almost all of the perps in recent history of mass shootings in the US have had a documented hx of personality disorders for lack of a more clear diagnosis.
I agree, I am searching for a way to wrap my head around this one. And yes, a knee jerk reaction was delivered. It is too soon to judge because all of the information is not in yet. I will place a bet with you though that this individual will have a past of MH issues. </div></div>
10-4 and I agree and it looks like he not only had prior issues but he also had some kind of altercation with the school staff two days before. The news is saying after that altercation with the school's staff he went and tried to buy a gun but was blocked by the state's waiting period which is why he stole the guns from his family.
Re: CT elementary school shooting.
In my state. (CT) there is a law that prohibits anyone in the medical community from revealing a medical condition to anyone else unless it is another medical practicioner involved in that person's case. It is called the HIPPA law. There is a fine and or imprisonment for violating this law. I am a paramedic, and I know this law very well. This law prevents law enforcement, and the FBI from getting any information so that any weapon will not be approved to sell to these individuals. This law might have prevented this shooting. This law was also put in place by the same administration that enacted the first AWB. When they change this law, it will be for the better. A note. A gun store in a neighboring city denied a sale to this kid on Tuesday. Again, common sense must prevail
In my state. (CT) there is a law that prohibits anyone in the medical community from revealing a medical condition to anyone else unless it is another medical practicioner involved in that person's case. It is called the HIPPA law. There is a fine and or imprisonment for violating this law. I am a paramedic, and I know this law very well. This law prevents law enforcement, and the FBI from getting any information so that any weapon will not be approved to sell to these individuals. This law might have prevented this shooting. This law was also put in place by the same administration that enacted the first AWB. When they change this law, it will be for the better. A note. A gun store in a neighboring city denied a sale to this kid on Tuesday. Again, common sense must prevail
Re: CT elementary school shooting.
Aur0ra
I aggree with you 1000%. Also, a Martr in their twisted minds. But, this is television ratings. You should have seen the mis-information given out, and that is still being told today.
Aur0ra
I aggree with you 1000%. Also, a Martr in their twisted minds. But, this is television ratings. You should have seen the mis-information given out, and that is still being told today.
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