Dasher shooter, talk me into/out of a BR

[Wssickta]

Been thru two barrels with a 20lb Dasher for a prs rig. Second barrel isn’t toast but my brass is wore out and cracking in front of the case head. Bought a new round(600) of br brass and I’m having a hard time justifying the money for hydroforming or using my inventory of primers/powder to form cases. I’ve made the decision to purchase a reamer this go around and the dies aren’t a concern.

There is a run your loads slow and consistent wave going across the prs mainly with a group of very good shooters who promote watching trace/impacts and light recoil. My current setup(dasher) I’m running 109 hybrids at 2930. That’s where my node was after switching from 105’s which was around 2955.
I also have a 6gt 109’s at 2950 and 6creed fast as you want them in the stable if I need the speed. So maybe I am just jumping on the band wagon or looking for something to run in the 28xx’s and try to watch trace better.
Anyone have any real world results with bullet trace when dropping 100fps into the low 2800’s? What about wind at 900-1200 yards? Also concerned about the loss of target moving energy that guys running 223’s always complain about.

 

[Kadams1563]

I went from a 6.5 creed to a 6GT and have been eyeballing a straight BR for awhile.

I am running the GT at 2980 with 108’s but wouldn’t mind slowing it down with the 105.

Straight BR and BRA seems to be pretty awesome.

 

[Milo 2.5]

Being you are used to a Dasher, I'd stop half way with a BRA. I used to look at fireforming as a waste of barrel life, until I started shooting a Dasher, BRA even easier and IMO, more accurate than a Dasher when fireforming.

 

[Sheldon N]

I started with Dasher at 2960 fps for a couple barrels. I've still got a Dasher barrel but haven't shot it in quite a while, been 6BRA with a 105 Hybrid at 2865fps. I don't notice any loss in wind performance between the two, but I do like the combo of less recoil and increased time of flight to see the bullet better.

Milo has a good point about fire forming for 6BRA. Those rounds are not wasted at all, incredibly accurate and completely capable of shooting a match. You'd get a good flavor of slow/consistent at around high 2700's/low 2800's for fire forming then bump it up a bit once the cases are formed.

 

[steve123]

Does Not Alpha or Peterson make 6mmDasher headstamp brass? Sell the Lapua brass.
Is shooting 110 or 115 grain bullets at low 2800's out of a Dasher such a liability? Heavier longer barrel and bigger brake help with recoil.
Too me this seems like the easy way around the problem.

 

[Kadams1563]

Nobody in their right mingle would sell Lapua to use Alpha or Peterson.

the ONLY reason I’m using Alpha is because 6GT. If Lapua makes you stick with them.

 

[Lunchbox27]

I made the jump from 6 Creed to 6BR. Well, making... still waiting on the barrel, everything else arrived. Looking forward to double the barrel life (first 6 creed went at 1300 rounds).

 

[Milo 2.5]

Nobody in their right mingle would sell Lapua to use Alpha or Peterson.

the ONLY reason I’m using Alpha is because 6GT. If Lapua makes you stick with them.

And here I am, I moth balled 300pcs of new hydro formed Lapua to use Peterson Dasher brass.

 

[Buzzinga]

I've shot a regular 6br for years right at about 2840 ft/sec. I've never felt the need to jump to a dasher and my brass lasts 20+ loadings--I don't actually know how long it will last as I just retire the brass after approx 20 firings.

 

[kthomas]

Another vote for 6BRA.

There's really no disadvantages when compared to a straight 6BR, and you get the advantage of some extra speed when you want to step on it a bit, getting you very close to Dasher ballistics.

 

[Cardboard Assassin]

Another vote for 6BRA.

There's really no disadvantages when compared to a straight 6BR, and you get the advantage of some extra speed when you want to step on it a bit, getting you very close to Dasher ballistics.

So there are no downsides?

More speed but still gets the same barrel life? I'm still debating 6BR & 6BRA.

 

[kthomas]

So there are no downsides?

More speed but still gets the same barrel life? I'm still debating 6BR & 6BRA.

If you run it faster, barrel life will be less. So you're right, there is that trade-off.

However, you are always free to run the BRA at BR speeds (and barrel life). But you can't run a BR at BRA speeds.

 

[Cardboard Assassin]

If you run it faster, barrel life will be less. So you're right, there is that trade-off.

However, you are always free to run the BRA at BR speeds (and barrel life). But you can't run a BR at BRA speeds.

You make a good point.

That extra speed would be useful for when I'm using it for F Class.....

 

[Mxridr]

I had occasional feeding problems with br. Otherwise awesome round stupid accurate

 

[Mr. F]

Maybe this is a dumb ass question but do any of you run 6 Creed at BR speeds just to get the same long tof and low impulse?

I run a AIAX and using mag kits its not appealing to me. If i can run a creed length case i will but i wanna know if i can get the best of both worlds with H4350 you know.

 

[jzerfoss]

Maybe this is a dumb ass question but do any of you run 6 Creed at BR speeds just to get the same long tof and low impulse?

I run a AIAX and using mag kits its not appealing to me. If i can run a creed length case i will but i wanna know if i can get the best of both worlds with H4350 you know.

I have done this with great success but it's more like Dasher speeds. H4831sc

 

[Kimber.204]

Nobody in their right mingle would sell Lapua to use Alpha or Peterson.

the ONLY reason I’m using Alpha is because 6GT. If Lapua makes you stick with them.

I've never used Alpha....but I love my Peterson brass. It's a small business of dedicated shooters who turn out fantastic products. That doesn't take anything away from Lapua. Don't think of it as selling Lapua for Peterson.....think of it as selling Lapua (in a different caliber than your gun is chambered in) for Peterson (or Alpha) that matches your guns chamber.

@Wssickta how many firings does you current Dasher brass have on it? Is the cracking that you're seeing common on fire-formed Dasher brass after a few firings? It's not apples to apples, but I've got 6mm Comp Match brass (Peterson and Winchester) that has 5 or 6 firings on it and the base looks like new brass.

Good Luck, Ross

 

[Jigstick]

Peterson brass is top tier. I’d buy Peterson brass over Lapua any day of the week. Their facility is located 25min from my house and I had the opportunity to tour their plant. Saw their entire drawl process from raw cups to finished cases. And their process, machines, and QC is leaps and bounds more modern and tight than Lapua. Lapua is using machinery designed and built 70yrs ago. Peterson is state of the art. The owners have shot with us at our 1500yd range on numerous occasions. Great group of guys.

Honestly I’d buy some Peterson 6 dasher brass and rock on

 

[Changed]

I had considered a straight BR. But decided to go with the GT instead. My barrel seems extremely fast, and I've had trouble trying to slow the 105's down. At one point I was running near 3045 with a 105 and 34.2 grains of Varget. I dropped my load to 33.6 and got down to 2960's. But, would still like to get it running slower.

It has proven to be an extremely accurate rifle.

This is 4 rounds a 300 yards at 33.6 and 4 rounds at 34.2 (yeah, I ganked one shot).

My next barrel for this action will probably be a 6BRA. I don't see the need for GT speeds. The GT feeds great though.

\

 

[Wssickta]

I've never used Alpha....but I love my Peterson brass. It's a small business of dedicated shooters who turn out fantastic products. That doesn't take anything away from Lapua. Don't think of it as selling Lapua for Peterson.....think of it as selling Lapua (in a different caliber than your gun is chambered in) for Peterson (or Alpha) that matches your guns chamber.

@Wssickta how many firings does you current Dasher brass have on it? Is the cracking that you're seeing common on fire-formed Dasher brass after a few firings? It's not apples to apples, but I've got 6mm Comp Match brass (Peterson and Winchester) that has 5 or 6 firings on it and the base looks like new brass.

Good Luck, Ross

My dasher brass is at 11 firings and has been bumped .0025”-.0035” every time while fl sizing. Annealed every firing except firings 2 and 4. The last outing I cracked 6 cases out of the 250 round weekend. I bump a tad more than most(I know it gives upsome life) but insures reliable Chambering. After a good cleaning I found 10-15 more that Have a deep deep grove on the inside of the case down near the web(these will be retired). Most of them have a visible ring just not a deep grove. Therefore I am unwilling to take this brass to another match.

 

[7mmMato]

I loved my Dasher but am going BRA. Smith just texted me and said my Barreled action is ready to go.

 

[steve123]

Just musing over my 2020 long range shooting.
For my next barrel I'm leaning towards 6BRA with 115's, or maybe 25 BRA with 131 BJ's, I feel like I need higher BC after shooting 6mmBR the last few years and the extra weight of the bullets to help spot misses when shooting at steel.
Part of the reason is I checked my 6mmBR brass a few weeks ago and after only 3 firings (9 altogether) since last time I trimmed and there was .007" difference in lengths so I had to trim most of them. My 223 AI didn't need trimming after the initial one, even after 5 firings the brass still didn't need trimming which is the nice thing about 40 degree shoulders. Only trimmed my 5mmFBI brass once which has a 40 degree as well but half the time I'm shooting reduced loads.
I'm shooting PRS style matches less, except NRL22 that is, and am more shooting at longer distances with centerfires. I'm finding out that 6mmBR with Hornady 105HPBT at 2850 fps is almost like shooting a 308 in wind drift so I've been shooting my 6.5 Saum more often than I used to. Before this 6mmBR barrel I shot a 6x47L so I didn't feel like I needed to shoot the 6.5 Saum as much. Those 150gr SMK's at 3000 fps really buck the wind well with a .71BC!
I'd go back to 6x47 for general use but I didn't like the poor barrel life.

 

[millertime2]

Just musing over my 2020 long range shooting.
For my next barrel I'm leaning towards 6BRA with 115's, or maybe 25 BRA with 131 BJ's, I feel like I need higher BC after shooting 6mmBR the last few years and the extra weight of the bullets to help spot misses when shooting at steel.
Part of the reason is I checked my 6mmBR brass a few weeks ago and after only 3 firings (9 altogether) since last time I trimmed and there was .007" difference in lengths so I had to trim most of them. My 223 AI didn't need trimming after the initial one, even after 5 firings the brass still didn't need trimming which is the nice thing about 40 degree shoulders. Only trimmed my 5mmFBI brass once which has a 40 degree as well but half the time I'm shooting reduced loads.
I'm shooting PRS style matches less, except NRL22 that is, and am more shooting at longer distances with centerfires. I'm finding out that 6mmBR with Hornady 105HPBT at 2850 fps is almost like shooting a 308 in wind drift so I've been shooting my 6.5 Saum more often than I used to. Before this 6mmBR barrel I shot a 6x47L so I didn't feel like I needed to shoot the 6.5 Saum as much. Those 150gr SMK's at 3000 fps really buck the wind well with a .71BC!
I'd go back to 6x47 for general use but I didn't like the poor barrel life.

right at 2000 with my 6x47 but she’s about done.

 

[Cardboard Assassin]

If you run it faster, barrel life will be less. So you're right, there is that trade-off.

However, you are always free to run the BRA at BR speeds (and barrel life). But you can't run a BR at BRA speeds.

If running 6BRA at 6BR speeds is the accuracy as good as straight BR?

BR is known for being easy to tune a load for - is BRA the same?

 

[kthomas]

If running 6BRA at 6BR speeds is the accuracy as good as straight BR?

BR is known for being easy to tune a load for - is BRA the same?

I haven't ran my BRA loads at BR speeds, but I can't see why they wouldn't be. Perhaps someone who has can chime in.

My BRA has been incredibly easy to load for. In fact, it's hard to find a load it won't shoot when using good components (lapua brass, Berger bullets).

 

[Cardboard Assassin]

I haven't ran my BRA loads at BR speeds, but I can't see why they wouldn't be. Perhaps someone who has can chime in.

My BRA has been incredibly easy to load for. In fact, it's hard to find a load it won't shoot when using good components (lapua brass, Berger bullets).

Interesting, from what I have read the 40 degree shoulders of the BRA are advantageous for other reasons beyond increased case capacity (reduces the flow to the neck which means less trimming).

 

[kthomas]

Interesting, from what I have read the 40 degree shoulders of the BRA are advantageous for other reasons beyond increased case capacity (reduces the flow to the neck which means less trimming).

That's also true.

It's a great little cartridge, there really isn't much downsides to it.

 

[B-P-UU]

If you are thinking of going straight BR, there is no disadvantage of the BRA.. unless you just want a BR which is totally understandable...
Fire-forming loads are just stupid accurate and perfect for practice or 1-day matches (and typicallymatch BR performance). Just avoid CCI-450's during FF'ing to avoid mis-fires. 205's and 400's work great.

My last BRA barrel, I was short on time and just picked a mild load of Varget and jumped 105 hybrids about 30 thou.. just hammers with no load development. Very easy to tune, but everything shoots good enough to win a PRS-type match.

As others mentioned, brass flow is minimized with the 40 degree shoulder as well.

 

[Cardboard Assassin]

There's a difference between shooting a slow cartridge and deliberately shooting a cartridge slow. All these cartridges have been traditionally run hard. Which is why we covet Lapua brass. Because it masks the pressure. 2840 with a BR is not slow, for a BR. 2750 is.

Here's another spin on the BR vs BRA vs Dasher now that factory brass can be had for all of them and fire forming really isn't part of the discussion anymore. I like to use the cartridge with the most capacity so I can use slower burn rate powders than Varget. Not just because Varget is the most coveted and least available powder out there these days, but because it's a throat torcher. H4350 in a Dasher makes for an extremely stable load.

I have lots of H4350 so tell me more.

What kind of speed would a Dasher / H4350 load run at? Ive also heard that the recoil impulse is different when using a slower powder like H4350 (less "snappy" than Varget).

Lapua doesn't have off the shelf brass but Peterson and Alpha both do.

Maybe 6 Dasher is the best all rounder for smoother recoil impulse and better barrel life if using H4350?

 

[patscrazy]

I’m moving on from a 6.5 to a 6BR. The barreled action I picked is used but still has some life left. So I figured I would run it until it’s shot out and then move to either the 6bra or 6brx.

The 6bra seems to be the much more popular option these days over the 6brx. Guys switching seem to be favoring the 6bra, despite being similar on paper.

Is the only advantage the 40 degree shoulder vs the 30 degree of the 6brx, which will reduce the need to trim as often? Or are there others reasons I'm missing?

 

[Doc68]

Just buy a 6BR. No fireforming. Just go and shoot. I use 29.5gr of V540 and a 105 berger hybrid. .3 moa all day long everyday. Easiest round to reload for.

Doc

 

[rookie7]

I started with Dasher at 2960 fps for a couple barrels. I've still got a Dasher barrel but haven't shot it in quite a while, been 6BRA with a 105 Hybrid at 2865fps. I don't notice any loss in wind performance between the two, but I do like the combo of less recoil and increased time of flight to see the bullet better.

Milo has a good point about fire forming for 6BRA. Those rounds are not wasted at all, incredibly accurate and completely capable of shooting a match. You'd get a good flavor of slow/consistent at around high 2700's/low 2800's for fire forming then bump it up a bit once the cases are formed.

Serious question because I don't know - is there really that much or a noticeable difference in recoil in the same rifle setup from Dasher to 6BRA?

My experience with shooting the 6br and variants is 3 rounds of a Dasher after a match.

Thank you

 

[Sheldon N]

Serious question because I don't know - is there really that much or a noticeable difference in recoil in the same rifle setup from Dasher to 6BRA?

I want to say that I think I could tell the difference if I were blindfolded, but I'd probably be lying to myself. It is about 2gr less powder and maybe 60-80 fps slower but that's only about about a 6% difference if you go by a recoil calculator. I do know that I could tell the difference between fire forming rounds and full power loads with Dasher, but that was more like 150 fps difference and 2.5 gr of powder less.

 

[rookie7]

@Sheldon N thank you.

I want a 6br or variant - have zero “need” but I want one to see how easy and accurate they really are.

 

[spife7980]

I want a 6br or variant - have zero “need” but I want one to see how easy and accurate they really are.

You can’t make a bad choice with a br variant

 

[FjallJager]

I am building another BR. I have about 600 rounds of brass, and 200-300 rounds of ammo.

It isn't flashy, but the drama with primers right now means it isn't worth it to have a souped up anything.

I have 180 rounds of 280 Rem brass that needs to be an Ackley, but right now I don't want to sacrifice primers or bullets.

Food for thought.