Did Steiner just quietly build the MPO we have all been asking for? H6xi

#51
I saw an interview at shot. They are going to release a 3-18 and I think a 5-30.
I'm intrigued by the 2-12 but really wish the did a 2.5-15.
No worries, I'm glad I was patient, I'll pick up the 3-18 for my hunting rifle
 
#53
Assuming the reticle checks out, the 2-12 looks like what we’ve been wanting for the most part.

The turrets look exactly like the ones on my T6xi 1-6. I’m a big fan of them, super easy to reset zero stop, tracks well, audible, tactile, basically anything you could want in a low profile turret. Looking forward to the reticle pictures.

I kinda see another Mock12 in my future assuming the above.
 
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#54
Jnull said:
Is it usable on the low end?
Click to expand...
Without taking it outside, it is hard to tell for sure. It is kinda like a thin #4 on the low end. It seemed like it should be usable. The thick bars were definitely visible. The thin center lines seemed to be visible, but without taking it out and looking at against a range of backgrounds, it is hard to tell.

ILya
 
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#55
PBWalsh said:
Assuming the reticle checks out, the 2-12 looks like what we’ve been wanting for the most part.

The turrets look exactly like the ones on my T6xi 1-6. I’m a big fan of them, super easy to reset zero stop, tracks well, audible, tactile, basically anything you could want in a low profile turret. Looking forward to the reticle pictures.

I kinda see another Mock12 in my future assuming the above.
Click to expand...
I really like the t6xi 2.5-15 on my MK12-barreled build.
 
#59
koshkin said:
I am still recovering from SHOT. It is a proper modern tree reticle called STR-Mil. I have a picture here somewhere. I'll find it some time this weekend.

ILya
Click to expand...
I'm surprised they went with a tree reticle on a 2-12 hunting scope whereas the 2.5-15 tactical scope (t6xi) has the SCR reticle (which I'd prefer). Hopefully it's a very simple tree. 12x isn't much magnification for something like .2mil hash marks. I always liked .5 mil marks like on the EBR-2C.

Edit - found it.
www.americanhunter.org

An Official Journal Of The NRA | New for 2024: Steiner HX6i with STR-MIL Reticle

Building on its existing series of T6Xi tactical riflescopes, Steiner Optics has announced the H6Xi riflescope—tailored for today's discerning big-game hunter—now with a MIL reticle for enhanced precision.
www.americanhunter.org www.americanhunter.org

2nd/3rd Edit... I think the pic in the article is not the STR-MIL reticle. Looks like the one described in the article as the HMR (bdc crap)
 
Last edited:
#60
Chrazy-Chris said:
Is it just me or is it not all that compact?

Looks similar in size to my T6x 2.5-15 but 42mm objective instead of 50mm

Edit - just looked up the specs. It's 1" shorter (12.8" vs 11.8") and 9oz lighter than the t6xi (32 vs 23.2oz). MK5 is 11.2" and 24oz. So it's really not that far off from the MK5. And has a larger objective.
Click to expand...
5RWill said:
Admittedly kinda wish the H6Xi 2-12 was the 2.5-15 but at 23oz and mil/mil
Click to expand...
I'm not sure what Steiner was thinking with the 2.5-15x50, it's too close to the 3-18x56 and weight is not far off from it's 56mm brother making it too heavy IMO??? The 2-12x42 definitely fits the MPVO criteria much better and removes the windowed/locking turret to help shave some weight.

Can anyone verify the FOV numbers? Steiner lists them as:
Field of View at 100 meters: 55' - 8.5'
But it's odd to list the width in feet with the distance in meters, so was this supposed to be at 100 yards and not 100 meters because if it actually is meters then converting to yards would yield FOV numbers of 50.3' at 2x and 7.8' at 12x which would be a pretty narrow 17.9° FOV??? But even at 8.5' we only improve to 19.5° which is still pretty narrow especially when the T6Xi series offers 24° FOV. Curious why Steiner would have neutered the FOV in the H6Xi series so much when T6Xi seems pretty forgiving?
 
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#61
Chrazy-Chris said:
I'm surprised they went with a tree reticle on a 2-12 hunting scope whereas the 2.5-15 tactical scope (t6xi) has the SCR reticle (which I'd prefer). Hopefully it's a very simple tree. 12x isn't much magnification for something like .2mil hash marks. I always liked .5 mil marks like on the EBR-2C.

Edit - found it.
www.americanhunter.org

An Official Journal Of The NRA | New for 2024: Steiner HX6i with STR-MIL Reticle

Building on its existing series of T6Xi tactical riflescopes, Steiner Optics has announced the H6Xi riflescope—tailored for today's discerning big-game hunter—now with a MIL reticle for enhanced precision.
www.americanhunter.org www.americanhunter.org

2nd Edit...
Wtf? It says the tree horizontal subsections are at:
-1.8
-3.0
-4.2
-5.6
-7.0
-8.5
-10.0
Click to expand...
I think that image is wrong, that looks like the MOA reticle.
 
#63
Chrazy-Chris said:
Yeah thank goodness. I just caught that too. Edited my prior post to remove my mistake.
Click to expand...
I saw the STR MIL reticle somewhere I thought, maybe in the SHOT 2024 thread??? It has an illuminated center cross, ILya says he likes it so I have hope it will work well at 2x though I'm not holding my breath as Steiner's illumination in their long range scopes is good but not great.
 
#65
Glassaholic said:
I saw the STR MIL reticle somewhere I thought, maybe in the SHOT 2024 thread??? It has an illuminated center cross, ILya says he likes it so I have hope it will work well at 2x though I'm not holding my breath as Steiner's illumination in their long range scopes is good but not great.
Click to expand...

Just to be clear: "ILya likes it" means that finally someone put a modern tree reticle into an MPVO. They also have the same reticle in the 3-18x50 and it is probably better for that mag range. However, they way it is sized, while it is a little too much for the 2-12x, I think it will be usable. I still have not gone over all of my stuff (busy at home), but found this online:

ILya
 
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#66
koshkin said:
Just to be clear: "ILya likes it" means that finally someone put a modern tree reticle into an MPVO. They also have the same reticle in the 3-18x50 and it is probably better for that mag range. However, they way it is sized, while it is a little too much for the 2-12x, I think it will be usable. I still have not gone over all of my stuff (busy at home), but found this online:

ILya
Click to expand...
Thanks for the clarification 👍. Doesn’t Trijicon have a “modern tree” reticle in their 2-10x36 Credo?
 
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#68
Glassaholic said:
Thanks for the clarification 👍. Doesn’t Trijicon have a “modern tree” reticle in their 2-10x36 Credo?
Click to expand...
The credo 2-10x36 has a tree reticle in it, but it’s not usable on low power.

It’s a workable SPR scope because it actually has a tree that can be used at max power.
 
#69
koshkin said:
Just to be clear: "ILya likes it" means that finally someone put a modern tree reticle into an MPVO. They also have the same reticle in the 3-18x50 and it is probably better for that mag range. However, they way it is sized, while it is a little too much for the 2-12x, I think it will be usable. I still have not gone over all of my stuff (busy at home), but found this online:

ILya
Click to expand...
I don't imagine that'll be very useful at 2x...
 
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#72
Glassaholic said:
Right which is why I’ve avoided it, but that is my fear with the STR Mil as well.
Click to expand...
I'm a bit confused by this - are you saying that you want to be able to use the tree and finer subtensions at 2x on an FFP optic, or are you saying that you want to be able to use the finer subtensions at lower magnification that is not towards the upper magnification range?

Sometimes disapearing subtensions on the lowest magnification setting are a feature, not a bug...
 
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#73
Leftie said:
I'm a bit confused by this - are you saying that you want to be able to use the tree and finer subtensions at 2x on an FFP optic, or are you saying that you want to be able to use the finer subtensions at lower magnification that is not towards the upper magnification range?

Sometimes disapearing subtensions on the lowest magnification setting are a feature, not a bug...
Click to expand...
Not about the subtensions... about whether you can make out the center of the reticle or if it's just a blurry gobblygook.

Thick duplex along the outer, bright illumination that draws your eye to the center, donut along the far outside, or something thick that disappears out of view at max magnification but points to the center while on the low end... those kinds of things. Look at Athlon and Vudu reticles
 

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#74
Leftie said:
I'm a bit confused by this - are you saying that you want to be able to use the tree and finer subtensions at 2x on an FFP optic, or are you saying that you want to be able to use the finer subtensions at lower magnification that is not towards the upper magnification range?

Sometimes disapearing subtensions on the lowest magnification setting are a feature, not a bug...
Click to expand...
Don’t care about the tree or subtensions at low magnification but need to “easily” see center, just like many LPVO FFP reticles. The problem with putting a standard long range tree reticle in an MPVO or even many mid-range scopes (like 3-15’s) is they are completely useless at low mag.
 
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#75
Glassaholic said:
Don’t care about the tree or subtensions at low magnification but need to “easily” see center, just like many LPVO FFP reticles. The problem with putting a standard long range tree reticle in an MPVO or even many mid-range scopes (like 3-15’s) is they are completely useless at low mag.
Click to expand...
Without seeing the subtensions or reticle in person it's impossible to know what it's like on 2x.

But based on every other scope on the market, I'm not holding my breath.
If I had to guess I'd predict the reticle is even too thin even on 3x.
 
#76
beetroot said:
Without seeing the subtensions or reticle in person it's impossible to know what it's like on 2x.

But based on every other scope on the market, I'm not holding my breath.
If I had to guess I'd predict the reticle is even too thin even on 3x.
Click to expand...
I would agree based on the reticle itself; however, with proper illumination the center cross may be usable.
 
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#77
Glassaholic said:
I would agree based on the reticle itself; however, with proper illumination the center cross may be usable.
Click to expand...
The problem is I don't want it to be "usable" it needs to be functional.

I can see why manufacturers have stayed away from this category as it seems to have very divided opinions on basically every aspect of the design.

The one and only thing people can agree on is the reticle must be properly functional on the lowest magnification.
If you have the choice of re-using a LPVO reticle or a 3-15/18 reticle I'd have thought it was obvious the LPVO reticle made more sense in a MPVO.
 
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#79
Athlons is great on low end but kinda large on the upper end, but it’s still decent. The razor 1-10 needs illumination on low power so to me that’s not ideal.
@beetroot I did check out maven rs2.1 2.5-15 and it’s actually pretty decent. Usable on 2.5x and 15x. Illumination is not daylight bright but on 2.5x it’s basically just a standard usable duplex. While I wish it was more like a G2H reticle to make it a bit faster to use it’s the best I’ve seen so far in this category minus the discontinued 3-12 Bushnell.
 
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#80
VandelayIndustries said:
Athlons is great on low end but kinda large on the upper end, but it’s still decent. The razor 1-10 needs illumination on low power so to me that’s not ideal.
@beetroot I did check out maven rs2.1 2.5-15 and it’s actually pretty decent. Usable on 2.5x and 15x. Illumination is not daylight bright but on 2.5x it’s basically just a standard usable duplex. While I wish it was more like a G2H reticle to make it a bit faster to use it’s the best I’ve seen so far in this category minus the discontinued 3-12 Bushnell.
Click to expand...
Did you buy one or just manage to track one down in person?

The Maven does look to be a decent predecessor to the Bushnell 3-12, probably not exactly what I would’ve done if I designed it but it could certainly be a lot worse.
I’m not convinced Maven know’s what the wider market wants, I think they’ve kind of just stumbled onto a formula that works good enough, and now it’s been picked up by the drop test people they’ve found a nice little niche for themselves.

This whole MVPO/cross over thing seems to be starting to get a bit of attention now which is good, but I just don’t see that companies really know what they are doing.
It’s a bit tricky as everyone seems to want something slightly different from mag range, form factor, weight etc. All the things that aren’t that easy to get right, especially if you are buying from an OEM (like Maven).

The one thing that really makes or breaks the whole MVPO/cross over scope is the one thing that isn’t that hard to change, the reticle, and it’s the one thing companies don’t seem to understand.
 
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#81
I still think the primary arms glx 2.5-10 griffin mil reticle is one of the most usable scope and reticle designs in this mpvo category, although far from perfect . I can use the horseshoe at 2.5x without needing illumination(I don't want to have to rely on a battery) , and the tree grid at 10x. Now if someone would offer this with a cross hair instead of a chevron I think it would be pretty good to go. Comparison establishes value and there just ain't many mpvo worth comparing at this point. I really do hope steiners center crosshair is usable at the low end .
 
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#82
beetroot said:
Did you buy one or just manage to track one down in person?

The Maven does look to be a decent predecessor to the Bushnell 3-12, probably not exactly what I would’ve done if I designed it but it could certainly be a lot worse.
I’m not convinced Maven know’s what the wider market wants, I think they’ve kind of just stumbled onto a formula that works good enough, and now it’s been picked up by the drop test people they’ve found a nice little niche for themselves.

This whole MVPO/cross over thing seems to be starting to get a bit of attention now which is good, but I just don’t see that companies really know what they are doing.
It’s a bit tricky as everyone seems to want something slightly different from mag range, form factor, weight etc. All the things that aren’t that easy to get right, especially if you are buying from an OEM (like Maven).

The one thing that really makes or breaks the whole MVPO/cross over scope is the one thing that isn’t that hard to change, the reticle, and it’s the one thing companies don’t seem to understand.
Click to expand...
100% agree with that statement.
I bought one.
Unless I missed something I didn’t really see anything compelling at shotshow. Steiner looks like it’s interesting but that reticle looks like a swing and a miss. Hopefully I’m wrong though… maybe someone will get it right eventually. For now though the new maven is decent, could use a bit of improvement in the reticle and illumination department but it’s not bad. 75% of what I want.
 
#83
If Leupold would have put an updated reticle in the Mk5 2-10x30, it would be perfect. Smaller form factor, lightish weight and length, good turrets, and a side focus. But no, they put it in tan…
 
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#85
lash said:
I think that it’s a great entry in that genre. Are youse guys the same ones bitching that NF stopped making it’s “great” 2-12x? The optics on this I bet will be superior and the NF also was not only MOA, but second focal plane.

Additionally, the reticle is as busy as I’d want a light fast hunting scope reticle to be.

I do not work for a scope company, but would be willing to bet that in the U.S. MOA outsells mil reticles in hunting scopes. Not everybody is all snipery, snipery as you bad ass mofos. It amazes me that not only can some of you not handle more than one type of reticle function, but that anybody ever was actually able to kill an animal with that old redneck MOA shit stuff.

I swear that some of you could fall in a horse trough full of freshly poured beer and would bitch that it wasn’t your favorite craft beer. 😁😉
Click to expand...
They did make the 2.5-10 in mil with mildot reticle though.
 
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#86
beetroot said:
The problem is I don't want it to be "usable" it needs to be functional.

I can see why manufacturers have stayed away from this category as it seems to have very divided opinions on basically every aspect of the design.

The one and only thing people can agree on is the reticle must be properly functional on the lowest magnification.
If you have the choice of re-using a LPVO reticle or a 3-15/18 reticle I'd have thought it was obvious the LPVO reticle made more sense in a MPVO.
Click to expand...
They keep sizing ffp reticles in in 2-10s like they do in scopes with 3x or 5x on the low end it will always be a problem. I still think the Weaver Tactical is the best 2-10. Toolless locking turrets reticle usable on 2x 50ft plus FOV 20oz or maybe 21 or 22. illuminated.

It's too bad they never just put a simple mildot in the razor lh 2-10.
 
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#87
WILLSMITH030382 said:
I still think the primary arms glx 2.5-10 griffin mil reticle is one of the most usable scope and reticle designs in this mpvo category, although far from perfect . I can use the horseshoe at 2.5x without needing illumination(I don't want to have to rely on a battery) , and the tree grid at 10x. Now if someone would offer this with a cross hair instead of a chevron I think it would be pretty good to go. Comparison establishes value and there just ain't many mpvo worth comparing at this point. I really do hope steiners center crosshair is usable at the low end .
Click to expand...
It would appear the Primary Arms, Athlon and March all seem to have more boots to the ground and actually listen to customer feedback, it's the larger companies with all their bureaucracy that seem to really struggle to meet the needs of the user on a timeline that is reasonable.
 
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#100
Glassaholic said:
Can anyone verify the FOV numbers? Steiner lists them as:
Field of View at 100 meters: 55' - 8.5'
But it's odd to list the width in feet with the distance in meters, so was this supposed to be at 100 yards and not 100 meters because if it actually is meters then converting to yards would yield FOV numbers of 50.3' at 2x and 7.8' at 12x which would be a pretty narrow 17.9° FOV??? But even at 8.5' we only improve to 19.5° which is still pretty narrow especially when the T6Xi series offers 24° FOV. Curious why Steiner would have neutered the FOV in the H6Xi series so much when T6Xi seems pretty forgiving?
Click to expand...
@Birddog6424 can you help shed any light on the FOV numbers for the H6Xi 2-12x42, is FOV really only 8.5' at 100 meters @ 12x or is it 8.5' at 100 yards? The Steiner T6Xi 2.5-15x50 offers 8.5' at 100 yards at 15x, why would they reduce FOV so much in the H6Xi vs. the T6Xi?
 
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