DNT is gonna let us do a reticle

[Lowlight]

Last week at SHOT I met with the folks at DNT Optics. Looking at the products, they are gonna do a SH Package to pair several models like the 7-35x, 5-25x and a 3-18x. With that pairing I suggested a reticle for the members. I was thinking we can do one like the old IOR build where we all throw an idea into the pot and boil down a winner.

So with that said, what elements in a reticle would we like to see,

1. Floating Dot

2. XMAS Tree

3. .2 vs .25

4. What above the center crosshairs

So let's discuss ....

 

[_Windrider_]

Last week at SHOT I met with the folks at DNT Optics. Looking at the products, they are gonna do a SH Package to pair several models like the 7-35x, 5-25x and a 3-18x. With that pairing I suggested a reticle for the members. I was thinking we can do one like the old IOR build where we all throw an idea into the pot and boil down a winner.

So with that said, what elements in a reticle would we like to see,

1. Floating Dot

2. XMAS Tree

3. .2 vs .25

4. What above the center crosshairs

So let's discuss ....

I would find a way to blend all the best attributes from the MIL-C and SKMR and MSR obviously without outright stealing intellectual property.

I simple tree and say 2 mils above center. Floating dot. And having it lit would be awesome.

 

[mike278]

I'm curious to see what this turns into, so I'll throw my $.02 in. No Christmas tree, just a simple .25 mil reticle with a .2 open center/floating dot. At least 5mil grads above center for spotting/reference broken into .25 only for the first 2mil, then .5 after that. I would like some .1mil grads at the last .5 mil of vertical and horizontal, or wherever puts them at the edges on high mag.

 

[Secant]

Quick and dirty for a 3-18. A sort of mash-up between a mil-c, G2MD, and an EBR dot tree.

 

[Lowlight]

For me I normally start my trees at the 2 Mil mark below the main crosshairs as I want a bit of a gap to see around and being that close, it's easy

 

[Tikkaguy]

Just put the msr2 in there duhhhhh haha

 

[Secant]

 

[Lowlight]

What would every other number look like, 2, 4, 6...

No odd numbers

 

[Lowlight]

Also the frame around the floating dot ? hash, no hash ?

 

[Rodney65]

Quick and dirty for a 3-18. A sort of mash-up between a mil-c, G2MD, and an EBR dot tree.

View attachment 8602449

I like the elevation numbers on both sides but I find that tree to be a bit wide near the base. The alternating 0.2 marks are awesome.

For me I normally start my trees at the 2 Mil mark below the main crosshairs as I want a bit of a gap to see around and being that close, it's easy

I like that.

Not sure if anyone else likes them but I personally like the large donut circles around the crosshairs for scopes going down to 3-5x like on some March and Bushnell reticles. Doesn't even have to be a full circle, even just the top halfs.

 

[Kino]

Make the floating dot just a little smaller, whatever size the Vortex G3 Razor 6x36 is, it's perfect. The NF ATACR 7-35x56F1 floating dot is just a tad bit big IMO and I'm pretty sure it's .05mil

 

[Secant]

What would every other number look like, 2, 4, 6...

No odd numbers

 

[carbonbased]

Some drops, better view.

 

[Bacarrat]

Just to throw them off, ask for a duplex with MOA elevation and Mil Wind adjustments.

 

[J-Ham]

Also the frame around the floating dot ? hash, no hash ?

Yes, definitely start the tree (if you're going to have a tree) at -2 mil. No 'frame' around the floating dot, make the dot small (as others have said).

 

[CaptNemo]

I'm in the market for a 3-18 illuminated reticle for a couple of hunting rifles.
FFP with MIL reticle and elevation / windage turrets ( Better Safe than Sorry )
Illuminated Center Dot or something similar to the the Reticle 16 in my Zeiss LRP S3 is pretty useable.

 

[st1650]

I’d love a non-tree mrad based with 0.2 hash and very fine center dot and or start the tree at 2mils, not 1 mil like most trees. If its a tree, keep it clean unlike the Horus abortions.

Also just illuminate the center dot, not the whole reticle.
Locking or capped windage for a 3-18.

 

[Kino]

Another tweak is move the 1/10 hash marks for ranging on the vertical down below the 8 mil line, most PRS shooters have/do to use holdover and anything in the 4 mil range is used a lot and IMO those lines are in the way.

 

[DairyDictator]

.03 mil dot center, main stadia starts at .1 on either side.
I like the elevation and windage pattern that @Secant has above, but I wouldn't want the thick lines on the outside, and I'd like to see a half mil mark on the left side of the stadia

Basically an improved EBRC-7D. I'll draw something up tonight.

 

[Kino]

I’d love a non-tree mrad based with 0.2 hash and very fine center dot and or start the tree at 2mils, not 1 mil like most trees. If its a tree, keep it clean unlike the Horus abortions.

Also just illuminate the center dot, not the whole reticle.
Locking or capped windage for a 3-18.

Definitely need a non tree version, especially for ELR and regular shooters. I'm all in on a tree for PRS but it seems like manufacturers have totally gotten away from a clean reticle.

 

[rlsmith1]

Floating dot, I tend to prefer the Leupold PR2 and ZCO MPCT 2x type reticles

 

[_Windrider_]

Just put the msr2 in there duhhhhh haha

I approve

 

[Secant]

I'd agree with making the dot smaller in a 5-25 or 7-35 (and also the inner reticle should be thinner, 0.035 mil, in the higher mag options too). But in a 3-18(ish), I think a larger dot makes more sense. Same concept with the thicker outer reticle lines - in a high mag option, those could/should be thinner, but in a lower mag offer they should be thicker in my opinion. I think a lot of scope brands fall into the trap of making a one size reticle to fit all magnification options. And that's why you hear so many reticle complaints with 3-15, 4-16, 3-18, 2.5-15, etc. - the reticles are just copy/paste from the 5-25 mag options that are typically used a little bit differently.

 

[DairyDictator]

I'd agree with making the dot smaller in a 5-25 or 7-35 (and also the inner reticle should be thinner, 0.035 mil, in the higher mag options too). But in a 3-18(ish), I think a larger dot makes more sense. Same concept with the thicker outer reticle lines - in a high mag option, those could/should be thinner, but in a lower mag offer they should be thicker in my opinion. I think a lot of scope brands fall into the trap of making a one size reticle to fit all magnification options. And that's why you hear so many reticle complaints with 3-15, 4-16, 3-18, 2.5-15, etc. - the reticles are just copy/paste from the 5-25 mag options that are typically used a little bit differently.

Fair enough. My ideal reticle design is used around 15-20x for general purpose and a small point for punching paper at 25x or 35x.

 

[Secant]

Fair enough. My ideal reticle design is used around 15-20x for general purpose and a small point for punching paper at 25x or 35x.

No disagreement there. In the 5-25 or 7-35 versions, I'd make the inner reticle 0.035 mil thick, the center dot 0.03 mil dia., the inner reticle would extend 8 mils right & left, and probably 10 mils down, and the thicker outer lines would be reduced in size. Regardless of my little sketch, I think most manufacturers could make very minor tweaks to existing reticles to better accommodate varying magnification ranges. I'd hope the scope model gets accounted for in these discussions about reticles. Or not, chances of me purchasing a DNT are slim to none right now, haha.

 

[Rob01]

1. Floating Dot. YES

2. XMAS Tree. YES

3. .2 vs .25 .2

4. What above the center crosshairs. At least 3-4 mils to allow for hold unders.

 

[Infidel4life11]

NF MIL-XT but:
Starting the tree at 2
Tiny center dot
Keep the lines and hashes thin
Illuminate the crosshairs and the dot
Tremor wind dots would be a plus.

 

[Tikkaguy]

If they could make a good ret in a 3-18 and maybe did a locking low profile turret locking turret and or capped windage in this cool color they have rendered. I’m sure they could sell tons. Not sure they have ever made an optical design of their own ? Just bought some other company’s ? Hopefully they can pull it off for a good budget optic. I like a x and y .1 mil hash for measuring mil work off on the right hand corner like rhe mr4 and msr rets too

 

[TEUFEL820]

Everyone has shared great ideas. In the end it all boils down to the market they are after. I've noticed a trend recently of non-tree reticles in the PRS and rightfully so. It's much cleaner (not cluttered) and easier to spot trace or splash compared to tree style reticles.

 

[ma smith]

Here's a couple challenging backgrounds for overly-fine tree reticles.

 

[Matches Malone]

Here's a couple challenging backgrounds for overly-fine tree reticles.

View attachment 8602513
View attachment 8602531

That’s what illumination is for

 

[ma smith]

That’s what illumination is for

There's an art to it for sure...

 

[blksno]

1. Floating Dot. YES

2. XMAS Tree. YES

3. .2 vs .25 .2

4. What above the center crosshairs. At least 3-4 mils to allow for hold unders.

I designed one like this a few years ago and lost it...Im in Illustrator now seeing if i can re-build it...but yes, to everything you said...
AND IN NIGHTFORCE OR TANGENT FDE color would be great

 

[AMG04]

View attachment 8602490

Some drops, better view.

I really like this. I'd go ahead and extend the tree down a few more Mils, it's not obstructive anyway.

I like the vertical stadia with centered hash marks and open areas every Mil.

The reticles that alternate sides on the vertical really make my head hurt. For some reason it doesn't bother me on the horizontal though.

For an option without the tree, an improved FFP of the old NF IHR reticle:

 

[stanley_white]

Where is @Jack Master and his previous design?

It was outstanding IIRC.

-Stan

 

[HaydenLane]

That’s what illumination is for

The desire for a 3-18 is mostly for hunting/crossover use, and many like me want a reticle to be usable without illum at low power if it’s going out in the field. You really don’t need 6-8 mils of holds in every direction for a scope like that. The heavy stadia can be brought in to provide a 3x aiming point if a donut is out.

 

[-H-]

I know I’ll get flamed for this, but I like wind dots.

 

[DM1975]

That’s what illumination is for

Yes! That’s why I like a fully illuminated reticle. Not everyone is shooting bright white painted targets on an open and manicured range.

 

[Taylorbok]

Floating dot with No Frame/ Hash
I prefer .2 markings, or like the CLR reticle from Apex. has .2 on one side of the line then on the other side is a single mark at .5.
I also like their dots on the tree at the .5mil mark. I honestly don't know if there is anything about the CLR reticle I would change.

 

[camocorvette]

Ebr-7

 

[DM1975]

Honestly, I kinda like the reticle they got now.

 

[LRRPF52]

View attachment 8602489

There are ranges I go to regularly where I start off engaging 760-800yds right out of the bag, then on to farther targets. I had this input for another manufacturer who adjusted the tree from being limited to 8 mils, then took it out to 12.

That reticle works much better for me shooting at distance with no dialing. Would be especially useful on a 3-18x for me.

 

[Taylorbok]

Honestly, I kinda like the reticle they got now.

I've never looked at their optics, but ya their existing reticle is better than most.

 

[hafejd30]

My favorite reticle is the NF Mil XT. Just the right amount of “busy” for me without jumping into tremor reticles.

Full reticle illumination. One of my favorite turret designs is the NF 4-16. Capped windage and locking low profile elevation. I prefer the lock only on your zero vs the push/pull locking like my ZCO has.

Personally I really like the reticle the DNT I just bought already has in it. Which is very similar to the Mil XT already

My only request with the 3-18 model would be mimic more of a 4-16 atacr in its design. Have a 42 or maybe 50 objective and much smaller turrets. I really think they could shine hitting the DMR style optic at a $600 ish price point

 

[FUNCTIONAL]

Should improve on the Gen2xr. Tree but not as cluttered as what's out now and should leave plenty of room for a ranging feature. On the main horizontal stadia after the 5 mil mark make it really thick to use on low mag, particularly the 3-18. 5 mils should allow to hold for 15mph wind even with an anemic 175smk, after that I'm dialing some wind. Honestly you could probably cut itdown to 4 mils each side.

 

[honzo]

3-18

 

[ClangClang]

Alternative proposal: There is no shortage of options in the 5-25 and 7-35 class of scopes that all have excellent reticles. And as noted above, just taking a 5-25 reticle and shoehorning it into a 3-18 body usually doesn't yield satisfactory results since 3-18s tend to be used differently than the higher mag options.

Is it possible to set out to design an exceptional "MPVO" reticle and put it in a 2-12 or 3-18 body instead? There are numerous threads active right now about the true lack of a great gas gun scope. FFP, durable, waterproof, locking turrets, and most importantly, some sort of illuminated horseshoe so that it is actually usable at both minimum zoom and maximum zoom.

Here's just a sampling of threads with dozens and dozens of people looking for such a scope (myself included). I would humbly suggest that it would be better to make a scope for a market segment that doesn't exist rather than creating yet another scope in one of the most saturated scope classes.

MPVO for Tactical Games Thoughts/Recommendations

I do Tactical Games competitions and the furthest we've shot out to is about 600 yards. A lot of guys are starting to go with a 3-18 type scope (something like Mk 5 HD) and offset red dot. We will typically have one to two stages where we shoot out to distance 200 - 600. Most distances on...

www.snipershide.com

MPVO Options

What’s out there that’s usable. Been looking at the Mark 4hd 2.5-10, but what other options are out there in the same price range or cheaper? Looking to put it on an 18” gas gun. A quick search on you tube, nets a ton of options, but I am not really trusting of most of the YouTubers. I was...

www.snipershide.com

Did Steiner just quietly build the MPO we have all been asking for? H6xi

Well, this checks a LOT of boxes. https://www.steiner-optics.com/riflescopes/h6xi-2-12x42mm Edit, just noticed MOA and no locking top turret. 😭😭😭 Still fits a good mid-range hunting scope application.

www.snipershide.com

 

[Gemsbok]

My calculator says I will be fighting 37 mph wind at 1000 yds before I need 6.0 mil of wind hold.
And are you guys really going to use holdovers out to 950 yds (8 mil) instead of dialing?
I recommend reducing those ranges and make some nice fat lines outside so the scope can be used at the lower end of it's magnification range and with cluttered backgrounds.

 

[Lowlight]

What if we did a Sniper Grey vs Black or Tan ?

 

[Lowlight]

Ya I’ll adjust the Mils, we don’t need that much windage