Rifle Scopes fixed: parallax does not "align" with focus

[delixe]

It always bothered me when I shot my rifle with the Steiner 5-25x56 that after focusing, I would have to fine tune the focus adjustment to eliminate parallax, and then the focus was slightly off.
One day I had an epiphany.

I realized that when I first got the scope and adjusted the diopter to focus the reticle, that there was a range of adjustment where the reticle appeared to be in focus (as is the case with most scopes I own).

What I did back then was set the diopter to the "middle" of the range where the reticle was in focus, but what if there was a diopter position where the parallax was eliminated and both the target and reticle were in focus ?

Next time out at the range, I setup on the 640 yard silhouette and adjusted the focus for zero parallax. It only took a slight diopter adjustment to pull the target into focus, and the reticle was still nice 'n sharp.

Since then I've tried it at various ranges and regardless of the distance, target focused = parallax error eliminated.

Sure beats the $hit out of the alternative, that my $3000 scope is f^%$ed up.

*Edit* resolving this has not brought the yardage (meters?) markings on the focus knob any closer to matching the actual distance, but I never pay any attention to that anyway. I don't recall any scope where those markings have been accurate.

 

[RobertB]

Awesome. Good find. Glad your happy now!!!

 

[delixe]

Thanks. My goal here is to offer a possible fix to others who have posted about having the same issue with their scope(s).

I don't recall reading anywhere about this method of fine tuning the diopter, which is not to say that it's not out there, just that I've not seen it.

 

[oldfatguy]

I'm a little slow, so please forgive the dumb question. What you are saying is: use the parallax knob to remove the parallax, then use the diopter ring to get the target focused.

OFG

 

[BigJimFish]

*Edit* resolving this has not brought the yardage (meters?) markings on the focus knob any closer to matching the actual distance, but I never pay any attention to that anyway. I don't recall any scope where those markings have been accurate.

The only scope model and make that I know of that claims it's parallax markings are accurate is the new S&B field target scope. All others make no such claims and many don't mark the parallax knob with ranges at all. Really, none should mark ranges on the knob as people get mislead into thinking that they mean something. A marking for far and near is all that's needed though I do like it when the near marking gives the close focus range as it saves looking in the manual.

 

[delixe]

I'm a little slow, so please forgive the dumb question. What you are saying is: use the parallax knob to remove the parallax, then use the diopter ring to get the target focused.

OFG

Correct. Of course, if in doing so the reticle goes out of focus, it's not gonna work. Fortunately for me and my Steiner, both the reticle and the target could be focused at the same time. I only had to do this once; now, regardless of the distance, when the target is focused, I cannot produce parallax error by moving my eye around the limits of the eyebox.

I checked several other scopes I currently own, a Bushnell ET 6-24 and a Zeiss Diavari FL 4-16. I must have nailed the diopter adjustment on those when I first set them up, as when the target is in focus, I cannot introduce parallax error by moving my eye.

I had the same problem with an S&B PMII 5-25 I once owned. Odd that I had the same issue getting the diopter setup correctly the first time with 2 big scopes of Germanic origin. Maybe they just have a larger "sweet spot" in the diopter. I admit that the issue was my initial setup, as there's nothing wrong at all with my Steiner, and I bet there was no issue with the S&B.

 

[timelinex]

The only scope model and make that I know of that claims it's parallax markings are accurate is the new S&B field target scope. All others make no such claims and many don't mark the parallax knob with ranges at all. Really, none should mark ranges on the knob as people get mislead into thinking that they mean something. A marking for far and near is all that's needed though I do like it when the near marking gives the close focus range as it saves looking in the manual.

When I sent back my Vortex pst for an unrelated issue I told them the parallax was way off. They adjusted something and now since then the markings are pretty damn spot on. 100 yards parallax is parallax free right at 100.

 

[delixe]

The only scope model and make that I know of that claims it's parallax markings are accurate is the new S&B field target scope. All others make no such claims and many don't mark the parallax knob with ranges at all. Really, none should mark ranges on the knob as people get mislead into thinking that they mean something. A marking for far and near is all that's needed though I do like it when the near marking gives the close focus range as it saves looking in the manual.

I've not owned any scopes where the markings were accurate, and I don't expect them to be. Being as I started this thread to try to help anyone who might be experiencing this issue, the last comment was to set reasonable expectations. It's a habit I picked up from dealing with clients (specifically lawyers) for whom I provide network support.

 

[delixe]

When I sent back my Vortex pst for an unrelated issue I told them the parallax was way off. They adjusted something and now since then the markings are pretty damn spot on. 100 yards parallax is parallax free right at 100.

My guess is that parallax marking could be set very closely on any properly designed scope if the builder takes the time to clock the knob in correctly. Optics manufacturers surely have enough understanding of the instruments they create to etch the graduations correctly relative to each other, so the misalignment is introduced when the focus knob is installed.

 

[Quickdraw40]

Steiner parallax markings are in meters.

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[delixe]

Steiner parallax markings are in meters.

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Regardless, the 10% difference between yards and meters doesn't account for the 50% discrepancy between the actual distance and the focus knob setting.

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[Quickdraw40]

Just making a statement.

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[Mute]

The method I've learned is to set parallax to infinity, then, look at the sky or a blank wall (so I can look at just the reticle) and adjust the diopter until the reticle is sharp and fully in focus. Done. This has always worked for me and I don't have any problem with an out of focus reticle regardless of where my parallax is set to.

 

[delixe]

The method I've learned is to set parallax to infinity, then, look at the sky or a blank wall (so I can look at just the reticle) and adjust the diopter until the reticle is sharp and fully in focus. Done. This has always worked for me and I don't have any problem with an out of focus reticle regardless of where my parallax is set to.

I've never had an issue with an out of focus reticle either.
That's not at all what this thread is about.

 

[Mute]

I've never had an issue with an out of focus reticle either.
That's not at all what this thread is about.

The problem is you're trying to use the diopter to deal with parallax issues. If you set the diopter properly from the start, you need only to just adjust your parallax until it's correct (regardless of the markings) and your target will always be in focus without the need to ever touch your diopter adjustment.

 

[delixe]

The problem is you're trying to use the diopter to deal with parallax issues. If you set the diopter properly from the start, you need only to just adjust your parallax until it's correct (regardless of the markings) and your target will always be in focus without the need to ever touch your diopter adjustment.

No, I'm not.
It was a one time fine tuning of the diopter.
I have not adjusted the diopter since, and the image is in focus at the exact same point of rotation of the parallax adjuster (also known as focus adjuster) as parallax error is zero, at any distance.
My point was that my initial setting of the diopter focused on the reticle to my satisfaction but was not focused on the focal plane.

If I can't explain it to you any better than that, well, I can't.

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[delixe]

The method I've learned is to set parallax to infinity, then, look at the sky or a blank wall (so I can look at just the reticle) and adjust the diopter until the reticle is sharp and fully in focus. Done. This has always worked for me and I don't have any problem with an out of focus reticle regardless of where my parallax is set to.

This is pretty much the method I used to initially set the diopter, except I did not touch the focus (parallax) adjustment, I cranked the mag to maximum and looked at the sky, which is a diffuse target that the eye will not focus on, and is why it is used.

This has resulted in a focused reticle AND the target focus matching the parallax zero point of the parallax adjuster at any distance with every other scope I've owned, but not with the S&B I sold or the Steiner (which I finally resolved).

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[jkb]

Great post, thanks! Had the same issue with a NF nxs. Seems like the white wall with reticle in focus procedure does not quit cut it. Nothing wrong with the scope though.


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[delixe]

Great post, thanks! Had the same issue with a NF nxs. Seems like the white wall with reticle in focus procedure does not quit cut it. Nothing wrong with the scope though.


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I hope it helps. I started this thread because others here have written about the same issue.

Maybe if I had titled it "my diopter needed fine tuning" I would have been spared being told that I was doing it wrong.

 

[djarecke]

I've noticed the exact same issue with my new S&B 5-25. I tried the 'ol "parallax to infinity and make the reticle crisp" approach, but I was still getting parallax with a focused image. I too did what you mentioned and now I have a crisp image and a crisp reticle.

 

[sib1948]

delixe is spot on in his recommendations! Do what he suggests or keep shooting at blurry targets. Your choice.

 

[Starosta]

delixe: Very nice, thank you for sharing!

 

[TxShooter63]

Guys your parallax setting is dependent on your vision. I realize most scopes yardage markings are hugely innacurate but because everyone's vision is not 20/20, the parallax adjustment vs the marked yardage will be slightly different anyway. You should normally set your diopter prior to worrying about your parallax and once set, it should not change unless your vision changes. I had been wearing a contact in one eye and using the other for reading but the popularity of competition stages where you shoot both strong and support side forced me to go back to wearing contacts in both eyes. Both the diopter and the target would be out of focus when I moved to my support/uncorrected eye. No time in the stages for adjusting your scope so having corrected vision in both eyes was my only choice.

 

[delixe]

Guys your parallax setting is dependent on your vision. I realize most scopes yardage markings are hugely innacurate but because everyone's vision is not 20/20, the parallax adjustment vs the marked yardage will be slightly different anyway. You should normally set your diopter prior to worrying about your parallax and once set, it should not change unless your vision changes. I had been wearing a contact in one eye and using the other for reading but the popularity of competition stages where you shoot both strong and support side forced me to go back to wearing contacts in both eyes. Both the diopter and the target would be out of focus when I moved to my support/uncorrected eye. No time in the stages for adjusting your scope so having corrected vision in both eyes was my only choice.

Thanks for sharing.
You can repeat this all you want, but the fact is, at least a few of us set the diopter initially to a position where the reticle was finely focused, and the point at which a target focus was not in sync with the point of zero parallax to that same target with the diopter adjusted so.
Although the initial diopter setting in most of the scopes I've owned (March, Sightron, Trijicon, Bushnell ET, DMR, and XRS, to name a few) did not require fine tuning, my S&B and Steiner 5-25s did.
After fine tuning the diopter, the reticle is finely focused to my eye, just like it appeared to be after the initial setting, but target in focus = no parallax, the way it's supposed to be.
The diopter will not need to be adjusted again.

Why do people feel the need to instruct us as if we're doing something wrong?

 

[JB.IC]

Bumping this old thread because it might actually help me with my S&B 3-27x.
My dipoter from mid range all the way to the negative side has a sharp reticle for me.

Going to test this out and see how it goes

Edit: just got it to go parallax free at 800m mark instead of the infinity mark.

 

[dontbelievethisnonsense]

Bumping this old thread because it might actually help me with my S&B 3-27x.
My dipoter from mid range all the way to the negative side has a sharp reticle for me.

Going to test this out and see how it goes

Edit: just got it to go parallax free at 800m mark instead of the infinity mark.

Very very important, screw the eyepiece all the way out, look at white wall etc from distance of 3ft or so with at least 15x magnification.

Close your eyes, blink your eyes open and shut again when you check the reticle.

Move the diopter only when eyes are closed. Eye focuses itself automatically and it can correct more than 1.0 diopter-whatever-units, but it causes fatigue and that's why when kids get eyeglasses, they're usually in -0.5-1.5 range and have been complaining headache after school. You want your eye focused to infinity when it sees the reticle so your eyes don't get strained when you look through the scope.

Diopter only focuses the reticle, but it's best practice to keep the parallax at infinity, main point is that behind the reticle, you should have blank, unfocused, reasonably bright backdground that allows you to see the reticle clearly.

Now when you turn the diopter and peek, whenever the reticle appears immediately sharp, stop. Take back a little and approach the spot with smaller increments. As soon as you open the eye and the reticle is sharp, close eyes, make sure your eye is relaxed, open up, if it is sharp, stop there and don't touch it any further.

 

[JB.IC]

Very very important, screw the eyepiece all the way out, look at white wall etc from distance of 3ft or so with at least 15x magnification.

Close your eyes, blink your eyes open and shut again when you check the reticle.

Move the diopter only when eyes are closed. Eye focuses itself automatically and it can correct more than 1.0 diopter-whatever-units, but it causes fatigue and that's why when kids get eyeglasses, they're usually in -0.5-1.5 range and have been complaining headache after school. You want your eye focused to infinity when it sees the reticle so your eyes don't get strained when you look through the scope.

Diopter only focuses the reticle, but it's best practice to keep the parallax at infinity, main point is that behind the reticle, you should have blank, unfocused, reasonably bright backdground that allows you to see the reticle clearly.

Now when you turn the diopter and peek, whenever the reticle appears immediately sharp, stop. Take back a little and approach the spot with smaller increments. As soon as you open the eye and the reticle is sharp, close eyes, make sure your eye is relaxed, open up, if it is sharp, stop there and don't touch it any further.

Love it when people think you don’t know how to adjust a dipoter lol. As if they’re the only ones with the same information that everyone has known for years.

The reticle is literally sharp from mid range all the way to the negative side. S&B has a weird dipoter & parallax combination. It’s a known thing.

 

[dontbelievethisnonsense]

My dipoter from mid range all the way to the negative side has a sharp reticle for me.

Apparently you're the only one who hasn't known it for years then.

 

[JB.IC]

Apparently you're the only one who hasn't known it for years then.

You’re full of shit too lol
Did you actually read the thread you posted in

This guy can read an owners manual and types a novel worth of words because he’s the type of guy that likes to listen to himself talk. He also can’t read the context of this thread.

 

[Precision Underground]

What was happening is your eye was changing focus to see the unfocused reticle due to the unadjusted diopeter. So when the target was focused correctly your eye was not seeing it correctly because it was already focused on the unfocused reticle. That actually sounds a lot more complicated than it is lol.

This is why the instructions say to adjust the diopeter while the scope has no image in it.

 

[JB.IC]

What was happening is your eye was changing focus to see the unfocused reticle due to the unadjusted diopeter. So when the target was focused correctly your eye was not seeing it correctly because it was already focused on the unfocused reticle. That actually sounds a lot more complicated than it is lol.

This is why the instructions say to adjust the diopeter while the scope has no image in it.

Negative sarge. The reticle is in complete focus from about mid range to the negative side of the dipoter. The eye is closed and opened to view the reticle before the eye attempts to focus.

Actually read the thread you’re responding too.

 

[Precision Underground]

Negative sarge. The reticle is in complete focus from about mid range to the negative side of the dipoter. The eye is closed and opened to view the reticle before the eye attempts to focus.

Actually read the thread you’re responding too.

View attachment 7017300
View attachment 7017301

Lol. What I said is still correct. I find it funny when someone thumps their chest yet still doesn’t know what they are talking about.

This happens to people when the diopeter is not focused correctly. They “think” their diopeter is set correctly because the reticle looks clear. But their eye is adjusting to focus the reticle when the diopeter is not set correctly. So they think that the diopeter is fine and post “there is a large range in which the reticle is still sharp”. Actual reality is that their eye is Changing focus (without their knowledge) to make up for the diopeter being wrong. I usually tell them to do exactly what the OP did to fix it.

Tell me how I am wrong that the diopeter was not set correctly yet the OP adjusted the diopeter to fix the problem....because that makes total sense.

This is hilarious because you came here asking for help and have gotten the correct answer a few times but are too proud or hardheaded to take it. Then you say things like “maybe actually read a thread before responding”. Lol. What is flying over your head is that the reticle is always sharp because your eye is compensating for the diopeter being wrong. Once your eye compensates and is focused on the reticle, it can’t see the correctly adjusted side focus.

 

[DellaDog]

Since the ocular adjustment is designed to find the correct diopter, why don’t they mark the diopter settings?
Match the marking to your optometrist prescribed diopter and you’re set(or at least pretty close).

 

[JB.IC]

Lol. What I said is still correct. I find it funny when someone thumps their chest yet still doesn’t know what they are talking about.

This happens to people when the diopeter is not focused correctly. They “think” their diopeter is set correctly because the reticle looks clear. But their eye is adjusting to focus the reticle when the diopeter is not set correctly. So they think that the diopeter is fine and post “there is a large range in which the reticle is still sharp”. Actual reality is that their eye is Changing focus (without their knowledge) to make up for the diopeter being wrong. I usually tell them to do exactly what the OP did to fix it.

Tell me how I am wrong that the diopeter was not set correctly yet the OP adjusted the diopeter to fix the problem....because that make total sense.

If the reticle is sharp before the eye even attempts to adjust then that’s why this a difficult.

The blank statement of how to adjust the diopter that’s been regurgitated for the last decade doesn’t quite cut it. I challenge EVERYONE that thinks that blanket statement of adjusting the dipoter to actually go test their parallax at different ranges to see where it actually goes parallax free. I’m willing to bet 99% of shooters set the dipoter. Test their parallax at 100yds and think everything is ok.

The reality is that it’s probably not. And that’s what leads people to threads like these. Because they actually check their shit and raise questions and think outside the box.

The blanket statement of how to adjust your dipoter isn’t enough for some eyes; it’s not enough to fine tune the dipoter.

But hey, shooters treat the parallax as if it’s a focus knob. If the target is focused, its parallax free..... NO!

 

[Precision Underground]

If the reticle is sharp before the eye even attempts to adjust then that’s why this a difficult.

The blank statement of how to adjust the diopter that’s been regurgitated for the last decade doesn’t quite cut it. I challenge EVERYONE that thinks that blanket statement of adjusting the dipoter to actually go test their parallax at different ranges to see where it actually goes parallax free. I’m willing to bet 99% of shooters set the dipoter. Test their parallax at 100yds and think everything is ok.

The reality is that it’s probably not. And that’s what leads people to threads like these. Because they actually check their shit and raise questions and think outside the box.

The blanket statement of how to adjust your dipoter isn’t enough for some eyes; it’s not enough to fine tune the dipoter.

But hey, shooters treat the parallax as if it’s a focus knob. If the target is focused, its parallax free..... NO!

The way the op described is exactly how I tell people to fix their diopeter. 90% of people are not aware enough to be able to tell if their eye is adjusting to make up for an off diopeter. This is exactly what is happening to you yet you scoff at people telling you correct info. For some reason it is triggering your ego that you didn’t have your diopeter set correctly. It’s ok, I use the same method as the OP to fine tune mine because I have really good eyes and my reticle looks clear no matter where I put the diopeter.

Pro tip- you can learn a lot when you understand that you don’t know everything.

 

[JB.IC]

The way the op described is exactly how I tell people to fix their diopeter. 90% of people are not aware enough to be able to tell if their eye is adjusting to make up for an off diopeter. This is exactly what is happening to you yet you scoff at people telling you correct info. For some reason it is triggering your ego that you didn’t have your diopeter set correctly. It’s ok, I use the same method as the OP to fine tune mine because I have really good eyes and my reticle looks clear no matter where I put the diopeter.

Pro tip- you can learn a lot when you understand that you don’t know everything.

I didn’t learn anything from you.
Pro-tip you don’t know as much as you think you do.

 

[Precision Underground]

I didn’t learn anything

This is exactly my point.

 

[JB.IC]

This is exactly my point.

The funny thing is you think you added value to this thread and then turn around agreed with the OP lol. Which anyone with an intuitive or logical brain would agree.

I’ll admit I though you were the other poster so I apologize for that.

 

[pucker]

Joins Hide week ago, already has 40+ posts, including restarting this thread from FIVE YEARS AGO...and is now in a repetitive argument. Cue my surprised face...

 

[Precision Underground]

The funny thing is you think you added value to this thread and then turn around agreed with the OP lol. Which anyone with an intuitive or logical brain would agree.

I’ll admit I though you were the other poster so I apologize for that.

Lol. So the OP explained that he figured out that his parallax was wrong. I explained WHY it be like it be. You disagreed. Now you say anyone with a logical brain would agree. Got it.

 

[JB.IC]

Lol. So the OP explained that he figured out that his parallax was wrong. I explained WHY it be like it be. You disagreed. Now you say anyone with a logical brain would agree. Got it.

You’re right my foots in my mouth in the context to your orginal post. Apologies

 

[Deleted member 10043]

So that I understand. The OP initially set the diopter as normal but in the middle of the range with a clear reticle. Then when on target with the parallax set to zero you make a small adjustment to the diopter to bring the target into focus leaving parallax at zero and the reticle is still in focus too? If so, isn't this no different than scopes that don't have the option for parallax adjustment? The ones that are generally fixed at 100 yards and the so-called diopter is used to focus on the target. Isn't this no different than adjusting an object into focus with an astronomy refracting telescope? In other words, another way to skin a cat. I have never been a big fan of setting the diopter and then leaving it alone and use the parallax knob to bring the target into focus. It is not just our personal fixed eyesight as measured by an optometrist in a controlled room. The environment changes our eyesight and brain is working the eyes to bring things into focus as best as it can with or without corrective lens to compensate.

 

[Precision Underground]

You’re right my foots in my mouth in the context to your orginal post. Apologies

All good no worries.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

You two need marriage counseling.

 

[JB.IC]

You two need marriage counseling.

We’ll be fine. Just a misunderstanding and arrogance or even a case of the crossed eyes on my part.

 

[Islas82]

Holy shit I jumped on this thread for some friedly advice On how to fix my parallax issue and now am just confused af ?

 

[Precision Underground]

Holy shit I jumped on this thread for some friedly advice On how to fix my parallax issue and now am just confused af ?

It popped up on my notifications and I’m reading it back thinking, I was a bit salty that day ?. We never did go to counseling though.