For the capable, experienced, non-combatant sportsman shooting steel or paper targets is there a significant objective reason to choose a $7K AI over

[want2learn]

For the capable, experienced, non-combatant sportsman shooting steel or paper targets is there a significant objective reason to choose a $7K AI over a $2.5KMPA or similar rifle?


With respect to the average enthusiast/sportsman, from a very practical, logical (non emotional or prejudicial) perspective, is there a significant reason to purchase a premium priced sniper brand rifle (i.e. AI, Barret) over a $2-$3k stock, DIY or semi-custom platform. My gut feeling is both can be made to fit/conform comfortably. It sounds like they're both pretty reliable, durable and accurate. I can't imagine it's just the cool factor...can it?

Not trying to stir the pot or prejudice and certainly not trying to denigrate any particular product or brand....just trying to identify what the objective reasons one would note for choosing one over the other.

I absolutely understand if you’re jumping out of airplanes to hunt down the enemy a military rifle has certain very credible, distinct and logistical advantages.

I also understand that in general a Ferrari is a much better and complex engineered tool than a Pinto not only because it costs more and is prettier but also in it’s capabilities. Different tools for different jobs etc.

Just trying to learn and figure out which way to go. thanks

 

[Supersubes]

The short answer: No there isn’t, go buy the 2-3k gun.

 

[candyx]

If your not ashamed to pull up in your Pinto and park it along side the Ferrari then the answer to your question is no.

 

[Newbie2020]

What if the Pinto has 4WD and a 351 Cleveland?...

 

[MotorOilMcCall]

Come on now... Pinto? You're not joining the firing line with a Savage Axis or Rem 783!

If you're looking at AI, you're looking at the Unimog, Stewart & Stevenson, or Oshkosh of rifles (built like brick shit houses, and built for unique performance and reliability), and the MPA would be the Corvette, high performance, but less robust.

The basic Rem 700 is the F-150/Silverado/Ram 1500 of the line by comparison. And your higher end factory rifles are the Caddy's, Lincoln's, Mercedes, BMW, etc. (Sako, Bergara, Tikka, Howa, etc.). There's always custom builders, and budget builders mixed in there too.

The only reason I would ever personally buy an AI is if my life or livelihood was dependent upon it day in/out. They're great rifles, no doubt about it, but most of us don't want to drive a Unimog daily unless we live on a battlefield.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

For the capable, experienced, non-combatant sportsman shooting steel or paper targets is there a significant objective reason to choose a $7K AI over a $2.5KMPA or similar rifle?

No,...
However all the Gucci shooters will tell you different. You should see the looks on their faces when they see or find out the winning stick, was a rack gun with a POS,... SFP,... MOA scope,... Internet advice, is like internet only shooters, both are full of shit,...

 

[beenjammin]

If your not ashamed to pull up in your Pinto and park it along side the Ferrari then the answer to your question is no.

Let me say this for the Pinto drivers.. Its definitely how you drive the car..

Nothing is more embarrassing then the eyeballs you get from veteran shooters when you show up at a match with a nice pretty AI and get a 0 or a DQ even from not being able to hit steel. I know this feeling from experience.... Even when I could shoot it, there was always guys with plane jane remingtons and Savages making my scores look bad.

Still you can justify the price if you shoot different calibers.. The price of two $2500 custom rifles and two scopes can be the same if not more money then an AI with two barrels and one scope........

OR even yet another route thanks to this community: get a USED AI and SCOPE here and come out saving money. Mile High has several Demo AX rifles that could pass for new.

 

[W54/XM-388]

For the capable, experienced, non-combatant sportsman shooting steel or paper targets is there a significant objective reason to choose a $7K AI over a $2.5KMPA or similar rifle?

You are looking at two very different rifle classes.

Your "$7k AI" is most likely the AXMC or similar which allows you to use the same rifle to shoot everything from 6mm CM all the way up to .338LM / .300 Norma and similar. I doubt your $2.5k rifle you are comparing it with allows for that.

Now a more accurate comparison would be something like the AI-AT which is in the $4k range

The biggest downside to the AI rifles is the stock, it's a love it or leave the platform choice for the most part right now.

Buy what you can afford and be happy.
If all you are doing is going to a square range to shoot targets and plan to never change calibers and don't mind sending your gun off for some time to get re-barreled when you need it, then you may never need any of the features of the AI rifles.

Reliability in significantly adverse conditions however is not something that comes easy, and you pay a premium.
The ability to swap bolts & barrels around between rifles and such is also something that is a premium feature.

 

[King_beardsly]

AI’s are awesome for there position in the market, they are the overbuilt battle tank that will be there no matter the conditions and how much they are man handled. I think one of the guys from mile high shooting has over 100k rounds through his and it doesn’t miss a beat.

Impossible, or just dumb, AI AX question

Hey everyone, as the title states this may be impossible to answer, or just dumb to ask, but I was wondering what kind of round count can one expect out of an Accuracy International AX or AXMC? Obviously the larger the caliber, the shorter the life, and the hotter loads versus factory ammo...

www.snipershide.com

 

[bfk4lyfe]

No, but an AI AT is less that $4k. So is that worth the extra $1k over your $2500 guns? I mean probably not for hunting paper and steel, but then you’ll have an AI lol..

 

[samb300]

The significant, objective reasons to buy an AI over any other premium custom or "Production Class (lol)" rifle are:
- Extremely reliable feeding from AW magazines, assuming 308/Creed/x47L length cartridges. No need to tweak the mag catch, feed lips, etc. This does not apply to 6BR-based calibers.
- Easy and repeatable barrel changes. Tiny set screws and clamping recoil lugs on other "quick change" actions are absolutely NOT in the same league.
- Likely to be more reliable in adverse conditions than a match-tuned custom. This may not apply to user-modified factory triggers or what some people have experienced with the AI Comp Trigger.

In the end, buy what you can afford and what calls to you (assuming you have handled an AI and some other custom actions and stocks/chassis). No one I've ever met nuts over seeing an AI at a match, so it's not like you're going to be the coolest guy on campus if you have one. Same thing with a custom or a production class rifle. You walk the line at any match and some guys have $2k rigs, while some guys have $10k rigs. At the end of the day, if you're just getting into shooting matches, you'll end up mid-pack or at the bottom, so no one is going to care about your score or what you're shooting anyway. Just shoot what rifle and caliber you like and have fun.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

At the end of the day, if you're just getting into shooting matches, you'll end up mid-pack or at the bottom, so no one is going to care about your score or what you're shooting anyway.

That is funny. Why because,... at one H/R match all of us "Experts" got our asses handed to us by a 12-14 yo kid, who had never shot past 100 yds before. To think that someone who has never shot a match before can't win it first time out,... is very closed minded.

 

[samb300]

That is funny. Why because,... at one H/R match all of us "Experts" got our asses handed to us by a 12-14 yo kid, who had never shot past 100 yds before. To think that someone who has never shot a match before can't win it first time out,... is very closed minded.

Sure it's definitely possible, especially at a 1-day local or club match. (I don't know what an H/R match is). I would say not very likely at a PRS or NRL 2-day match though, going up against any top-10 shooters I HIGHLY doubt anyone is going to roll up and win based on raw talent alone.

You also didn't mention what that person's rig was, which proves my point. You said you got your ass handed to you by a kid, but not that a kid with a $500 rifle or a $10k rig beat you because of their gear. Which is what the OP seems to be asking in the first place.

 

[kthomas]

Both capable rifles. Buy the rifle that fits you and suits your needs within your budget, whichever that looks like.

The rhetoric that AI's are bomb proof and customs are unreliable are fueled from the bad nightmares from the early 2000's, when a top of the line custom gun would be a GAP with cerakoted Defiance action that would lock up at the mere sight of dust.

Customs have come a long ways since then. However, there is more variability as you have multiple manufacturers making the parts that ultimately end up as your rifle. It can take some work to get the parts to play nice with each other, picking the proper parts and using a quality gunsmith will mitigate many potential reliability issues.

AI is all produced in one factory with all the parts designed to work with each other. So there's better chances that everything plays nice from the get-go. The rhetoric that AI's are bomb proof are a bit of an exaggeration, they are man made and as such can and will go down if the proper conditions exist to cause a failure. I've seen a few AI's go down in matches, they aren't infallible.

Nothing wrong with that $2k MPA, and if that's your budget, that's an excellent choice. My only hesitation would be the Curtis action, which can have issues. An AI isn't going to be magically better in an appreciable way to a well spec'ed and built custom rifle.

It really comes down to the preference of the end user.

 

[W54/XM-388]

One thing that should be taken into consideration is that if you intend to do any of the "shooting games", you'll most likely start looking at something specifically tailored towards whatever game is your fancy.

 

[want2learn]

Wow, a lot of great insight.....i'm very appreciative.

I hope to participate in both F class as well as occasional PRS type shooting...both on a very local level....and of course just fun shooting prone with friends at the local range. 6.5x47L or 6.5 Creedmoor type calibers.

 

[Supersubes]

It’s worth noting that you can buy a new AX with a Schmidt &Bender on top for $7k, or an AXMC with the same scope for $8k. So the OP’s numbers aren’t quite right.


AI’s are my personal favorite, but as noted above, they’re not going to make you hit the target more.

 

[hafejd30]

I purchased my AIAT for just over 3k here. So that brings it more into the MPA class you speak of. With the quick change barrel setup

 

[Steel head]

No.

 

[Supersubes]

Wow, a lot of great insight.....i'm very appreciative.

I hope to participate in both F class as well as occasional PRS type shooting...both on a very local level....and of course just fun shooting prone with friends at the local range. 6.5x47L or 6.5 Creedmoor type calibers.

Based upon your usage, building a reasonable priced custom would be an obvious choice. Do not buy the AI unless you just want to own one.

 

[6brshooter]

Wait, the mpa is a curtis action? Hard pass, definitely ai.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

Peoole that buy AI don't look at the price tag.

Get a quality custom rifle for less and you'll have more funds for better glass, ammo, and other shooting equipment.

 

[6brshooter]

2000 dollar ai, not counting glass, but counting at folder, proof 6.5 barrel, and lri bush job

 

[Eric32]

If you gonna get into and AI the AT model is the way to go.

BUT its the MKIII, Its more in line with the MPA, AI are tanks the two stage trigger is super nice. I run a AIAT after being frustrated with not getting lucky on mags and tweaking stuff and forcing parts to work together.

AW mags are awesome and i like the fact i can shoot 308win practice and 6XC match caliber with the same rifle so i dont need to swap anything. Its one rifle that i shoot and i dont find myself switching everyother day if i wanna shoot a different caliber.

 

[King_beardsly]

View attachment 73194612000 dollar ai, not counting glass, but counting at folder, proof 6.5 barrel, and lri bush job

Not the sexiness of an AX but still looks good

 

[Steel head]

View attachment 73194612000 dollar ai, not counting glass, but counting at folder, proof 6.5 barrel, and lri bush job

That’s the AI I’d get.

 

[candyx]

Find yourself a Winchester Model 70 . 30-06 caliber rifle with the standard 8-power Unertl scope, it worked well for Carlos Hathcock. I don't think he missed any of his targets.

 

[mcm308]

Rifles are like beer. Everyone likes a different kind. Some cost more than others. They all get you drunk! Buy what you like!

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

Find yourself a Winchester Model 70 . 30-06 caliber rifle with the standard 8-power Unertl scope, it worked well for Carlos Hathcock. I don't think he missed any of his targets.

You would be wrong, in fact he even made the comment more than once he missed a lot while in V/N.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

Sure it's definitely possible, especially at a 1-day local or club match. (I don't know what an H/R match is). I would say not very likely at a PRS or NRL 2-day match though, going up against any top-10 shooters I HIGHLY doubt anyone is going to roll up and win based on raw talent alone.

You also didn't mention what that person's rig was, which proves my point. You said you got your ass handed to you by a kid, but not that a kid with a $500 rifle or a $10k rig beat you because of their gear. Which is what the OP seems to be asking in the first place.

So your saying someone has to own a high end stick to win, if so that is not what I have seen in my few years of shooting? IIRC the kid was shooting his dads R-700 that only had a barrel change. Many an AI an other Names were there shooting that course that day.One thing I've learned in the shooting world,... there are very few thing in stone, as most would have you believe,...

 

[Crabcore]

So your saying someone has to own a high end stick to win

That is literally the opposite of what he was saying. The whole point was that the KID beat everyone. Not THE FANCY RIFLE (which happened to be used by a kid). Look at the example; the type/cost of the kid's rifle was never mentioned. WHY? Because no one cares what rifle you have at a match! That is the point.
Shoot what you like and what you can afford. Have fun. That's it. Don't overthink it. damn.

 

[samb300]

So your saying someone has to own a high end stick to win, if so that is not what I have seen in my few years of shooting? IIRC the kid was shooting his dads R-700 that only had a barrel change. Many an AI an other Names were there shooting that course that day.One thing I've learned in the shooting world,... there are very few thing in stone, as most would have you believe,...

Yeah man, I’m not sure where you got that from my response, or why you’re debating me on something I’m in agreement with you on. I’ve gotten beat by everyone, young/old, men/women, new/experienced, $1k/$10k rigs. And I’ve placed better than all sorts of people too. In highly competitive club, regional, or national series, it’s the exception - not the norm - for a complete newbie to roll up and wipe the floor with experienced shooters. It happens, sure, but in general the AVERAGE new shooter will place in an average to low final placement at his first match(es), regardless of gun or caliber.

 

[M8541Reaper]

Another thing I don’t think that was mentioned, in terms of reliability, is the shooter’s care & maintenance. Anything that exists has the potential break or not work as intended due to the end user’s actions (or inaction). A dude who doesn’t set his gear up properly and/or fails to maintain it will have issues, regardless of make/model system. The user is the biggest factor that has to be considered when going off of stories told on forums and at the range. An AI will go down if the user is a shithead, just as a custom will truck on if the user put quality parts in it and takes care of it.

As others have mentioned, go with the one that will fit your requirements.

Honest Opinion:
I hate the saying of “oh you should go with ____ firearm due to the resale value” but in the case of an AI, you can snag a demo AX from EO or MH for less than what some dudes sell their safe queens (aka still used) for in the PX. Shit MH has a deal right now for a demo AX, spuhr mount, and your choice of high end optic for 7999 at the highest bundled price. they have NF, ZCO, Kahles, and Leupold glass to choose from. that’s what I’d do. Oh turns out you don’t like it? You could easily sell everything separately below the average PX prices and come out on top or at least break even. Then go buy a custom action. Keep in mind, you aren’t going to get anywhere what you paid if you end up wanting to ditch the custom.

 

[hafejd30]

I personally like my AI over my custom rig. So I say AI because that’s my preference. I have more money into my custom. I’d most likely have to sell for less than I have into my used AI should I choose to do so based on the prices I see rifles go for here.

I’ll post a pic of one of my most accurate, reliable guns for the last 5 years and one of the guns I’ll never let go,

yup it’s a Savage

 

[redneckbmxer24]

They’re not even comparable, and yes it’s worth the increased cost. Especially if you get the AXMC and can run long and short action rounds.

 

[Ankeny]

When I bought my AIAT I went through the following thought process. I want one. Enough said.

 

[Steel head]

I’ll post a pic of one of my most accurate, reliable guns for the last 5 years and one of the guns I’ll never let go,

yup it’s a Savage

View attachment 7319634

 

[King_beardsly]

When I bought my AIAT I went through the following thought process. I want one. Enough said.

I like that thought process, sorta how I ended up with a TL3 dasher build. I want it, my wallet will allow it and bam I’ve got it

Also why a Henderson trimmer is coming to my reloading layer

 

[mcm308]

Another thing I don’t think that was mentioned, in terms of reliability, is the shooter’s care & maintenance. Anything that exists has the potential break or not work as intended due to the end user’s actions (or inaction). A dude who doesn’t set his gear up properly and/or fails to maintain it will have issues, regardless of make/model system. The user is the biggest factor that has to be considered when going off of stories told on forums and at the range. An AI will go down if the user is a shithead, just as a custom will truck on if the user put quality parts in it and takes care of it.

As others have mentioned, go with the one that will fit your requirements.

Honest Opinion:
I hate the saying of “oh you should go with ____ firearm due to the resale value” but in the case of an AI, you can snag a demo AX from EO or MH for less than what some dudes sell their safe queens (aka still used) for in the PX. Shit MH has a deal right now for a demo AX, spuhr mount, and your choice of high end optic for 7999 at the highest bundled price. they have NF, ZCO, Kahles, and Leupold glass to choose from. that’s what I’d do. Oh turns out you don’t like it? You could easily sell everything separately below the average PX prices and come out on top or at least break even. Then go buy a custom action. Keep in mind, you aren’t going to get anywhere what you paid if you end up wanting to ditch the custom.

And just to show that its what people like, for literally 1$ more then that 7999 package. I bought a 40 year old, 40 year old technology plain Jane Remington 700...lol

 

[blbennett1288]

@samb300 FWIW I have been running AW/AX mags with the HRD 6mm inserts for 6BR and after 1,000 live fire rounds in match and practice this year have had zero feeding or ejection issues. I know others have not had the same pleasant experience I have had.

@want2learn I ran customs for a couple years and it was always one thing or another. Not necessarily with the “action” per say but primarily mags and triggers. One was a “pieced together“ semi custom and the other was done by a reputable well known smith.

I can’t tell you how many times I have witnessed feeding issues at matches from .308 based cartridges in AICS mags and rem 700 footprint actions.

I switched about 1.5yrs ago to AIs and don’t regret it one bit. Are the perfect? No. Do they fit everyone? No. But so far they are the best solution I have found FOR ME.

 

[want2learn]

Really glad i posted this....lot of great information, thank you all for your time in responding

 

[19Scout77]

You should really test shoot an AI before you buy. The ergonomics, scope height and weight are not for everyone.

 

[blbennett1288]

For a short action AI AX range / showroom demo you are looking at $4400-5400.

Long action AI AXMC range demo ~$5400 and new for $6685.

AI AT’s demos about $3500-3750.

Your best bet will be the SnipersHide PX. You can find ATs between $3000-3500 and AX’s about $4000-4500.

The endless options for prefits, ability to run AW’s, and the 60deg action make it a no brainer for me.

 

[JeffLebowski]

Find yourself a Winchester Model 70 . 30-06 caliber rifle with the standard 8-power Unertl scope, it worked well for Carlos Hathcock. I don't think he missed any of his targets.

ok, boomer.

 

[Shawn1492]

get it done with a Chevy.

 

[GBMaryland]

I love my TRG 42… But if I were buying a gun today as opposed to 15 years ago, that would not be to gun to buy.

A Tikka T3X A1 Will get you most of the way there and cost you only a couple thousand dollars.

 

[6brshooter]

For a short action AI AX range / showroom demo you are looking at $4400-5400.

Long action AI AXMC range demo ~$5400 and new for $6685.

AI AT’s demos about $3500-3750.

Your best bet will be the SnipersHide PX. You can find ATs between $3000-3500 and AX’s about $4000-4500.

The endless options for prefits, ability to run AW’s, and the 60deg action make it a no brainer for me.

Ive got a buddy looking for a 4000-4500 ax, all he can find is 5500- 6200 ax with 1-3 barrels, or its beat to shit and has non functioning parts. He doesn't even need a barrel, just the receiver/chassis.

 

[hafejd30]

Ive got a buddy looking for a 4000-4500 ax, all he can find is 5500- 6200 ax with 1-3 barrels, or its beat to shit and has non functioning parts. He doesn't even need a barrel, just the receiver/chassis.

This one went not that long ago on here. Just as a reference. Offered to me for $3800 when I talked to him. Not sure what it sold for in the end. There out there if your patient

Firearms - SPF: Accuracy International AX .308

2013 Accuracy International AX .308 in very good condition. Typical AI wear around the bottom of the magazine well. I am very meticulous about keeping my investments clean and in good condition. Purchased new by me from Jason at EuroOptic. OD Green with the 16" rail upgrade. Action has approx...

www.snipershide.com

 

[Basher]

If your budget will support an AI and you find that they agree with you (primarily in terms of chassis fit), then buy one if it's what you want. I had an AI AT for some time and absolutely loved it. The ONLY reason I sold it is because funds were needed elsewhere, and it was one area where I could sacrifice (I'm not relying on a rifle to put food on the table, support my family, etc.) to bring in funds quickly. There will come a day when I have another. To me, they're that good.

Can an aftermarket action or a well-built custom R700 do the same thing for less? Yep, and 9 times out of 10 it will be just as reliable. AI's aren't magic, and that's coming from an AI fanboi. But what you get for the price of admission is a rifle system that's built from the ground up for each part of that system to work well with all the others. They're not infallible, but in my opinion, you get an additional measure of reliability and robustness over a custom/aftermarket.

In addition, there's a LOT of refinement in that system. I've had the pleasure of owning a number of rifles over the years, and have shot a great many more than what I've personally owned. There are some fine rifles out there. But to me, the AI action was the smoothest and fastest that I've personally felt. It takes a tiny bit more force to open the bolt since it's a 60* bolt throw, but everything about it was amazingly smooth. In addition, I personally find the AI trigger to be the best out there for my uses. It's much heavier than what most guys are using these days at comps, but that's OK with me. Mine was right around the 3lb mark, but broke cleanly and just felt right to me.

So basically, you have to experience them to know if they're worth it to you. I'm getting by with a well-used but custom built R700 and a factory stock FN SPR as a backup rifle that I also got at a steal. Combined, both fall well below the price of an AI because by dumb luck I stumbled upon them at the right time. But when my situation improves and I can afford to make up the difference, I'll be seriously considering the option to sell them and move back to an AI.

 

[6brshooter]

Should have mentioned 2014. He'd rather have an at over that one, not that there's anything wrong with it, just no qd barrel or improved buttstock.