Gaming the NRL-22 Offhand Stages - does anyone GAF?

[Jefe's Dope]

I think practicing a marksmanship skill is the very opposite of gaming.

How is it different or the "very opposite"? Is "gaming" using an unpracticed technique or using a technique outside the box? Need to know what your definition of "gaming" is before I can debate you any more.

Also, it seems you're the one guy.

The last two NRL22X matches I participated in did not include an offhand stage of any kind. Why not?

 

[phlegethon]

How is it different or the "very opposite"? Is "gaming" using an unpracticed technique or using a technique outside the box? Need to know what your definition of "gaming" is before I can debate you any more.

Also, it seems you're the one guy.

The last two NRL22X matches I participated in did not include an offhand stage of any kind. Why not?

For one thing, it’s useful in real life. It’s incorporated into many other rifle shooting disciplines for that reason. And training for it reinforces the fundamentals of marksmanship.

Bringing a bag the size of a chair to a stage, that’s more what I think of as gaming. Not useful in real life. Avoids fundamentals.

 

[Jefe's Dope]

For one thing, it’s useful in real life. It’s incorporated into many other rifle shooting disciplines for that reason. And training for it reinforces the fundamentals of marksmanship.

Bringing a bag the size of a chair to a stage, that’s more what I think of as gaming. Not useful in real life. Avoids fundamentals.

No one is arguing its usefulness. Clearly it's a fundamental technique. Yet, everyone hates it. Probably why you only see it in NRL22 not 22X and a very few singular matches. Mostly because most shoot heavy rifles that are at an advantage on every other stage. I would think most people shooting off hand in the wild have an appropriate weighted rifle as well. I enjoy shooting my 10/22 offhand.

The last 22X match I shot they provided a huge pillow that you had to shoot off. It was a bean bag about the size of an ATV. Should I expect to find one in the wild next time I'm out? Should I leave my tripod at home next time I'm hunting since it's not allowed in NRL22? I wasn't aware that NRL22 was mastering fundamentals that I find in the real life.

 

[*Nine]

The NRL rules are insufficient. By the strict letter of the rules you could just sit down with both feet on the ground and it meets the requirements for "standing unsupported" as written. Obviously that's not right, and I'm going to assume it's not intended. The rules need to be fixed. In the absence of that it's the Match Director's duty not to be an idiot. It seems like in the case the OP reported the rules are insufficient and the MD is an idiot. There's not much you can really do in that case other than take advantage of the rule yourself or shoot the stage as intended and understand you're at a disadvantage. If the MD doesn't care about this type of stuff then I'd not shoot their matches in the future.

EDIT: At the end of the rules is the section on sportsmanship, the MD explicitly has the power to rule something as "unfair" or "unsportsmanlike" and could absolutely have said "no" to the stupid shit that was going on. Again, the NRL rules are insufficient in this area and need a lot of work, but the MD was clearly an idiot and wasn't willing to make an obvious call.

 

[littlepod]

I've been running our local NRL22 match for about a year now and we get a recurring 28 people to show up. My main rule is no asshattery and that people are here to have fun and shoot the stages in the spirit they were written. We're all on the same playing ground, and the scores aren't meaningful at a national level as your score is local to your match.

We run the 5 official stages which count for your NRL22 score and your class / division that get recorded. We also run 3 bonus stages which are whatever the hell we want. We can put up movers, snake charmers, spinners, etc. Use random props, use whatever gear you want. People share gear all the time, and the bonus stages don't count and aren't meant for a bunch of whining and pissing.

I really enjoy that it's a local match with local people that are all out there to have fun and get better. It's much easier to enjoy then the regional/national level matches where there's $ on the line and everyone is trying to get an additional edge, get another sponsorship.

 

[Redfisher60]

If someone already said this I apologize, but the definition of standing is not "two feet on the ground" it's "to Stand" or "have or maintain an upright position, supported by one's feet." that said, I tried it . . . I have a trashed knee, a bad hip from breaking it two years ago and I shoot a 22lb gun. It didn't help me one bit.

 

[*Nine]

...

I really enjoy that it's a local match with local people that are all out there to have fun and get better. It's much easier to enjoy then the regional/national level matches where there's $ on the line and everyone is trying to get an additional edge, get another sponsorship.

I see your location is the PNW. I'm on the east coast now but I was in the PNW and shot matches there from about 2008-2015. Before the PRS/NRL/whatever showed up and people started thinking they were fancy because they bought a jersey with their name on it or they got a discount on a scope this is how all the matches felt. We'd have matches on both sides of the mountains and people would drive from OR, ID, MT, etc... and we'd just be shooting for fun, lots of the matches didn't even have prizes beyond maybe a small plaque or the winner might get to take home a target from the match or something. I miss those days, and it's a shame more shooters didn't get to experience that type of environment before it turned into what we have today.

 

[usafa77]

I really enjoy that it's a local match with local people that are all out there to have fun and get better. It's much easier to enjoy then the regional/national level matches where there's $ on the line and everyone is trying to get an additional edge, get another sponsorship.

That's the way the match i go to is. I'm guessing that's 90% of the people- just like any sport. I practiced for that standing stage for 3 weeks- got a 1.

 

[Gleedus]

After reading all of this I'm kind of disappointed. I dont have the opportunity to shoot NRL up here but shoot both the Canadian series and PRS Rimfire.
To the OP this is a very poor and unprofessional way to "force" someone to do something you dont care about.

None of these "bush leagues" are perfect. Using the wording in the spirit of the stage well a very poor rule does allow for a thriving fun bush league with some very good shooters. We have a lot of fun with great guys.

Then there are two other groups.
The lawyers who call cheating "gaming" because yada yada....
And the league haters because they dont have lawyer rules. Neither group is good for the sport.

I am a MD myself and there are times when I disagree with things that other MDs allow. Not my problem. If shooting my match squatting was used for standing it would be a stage 0. Why? Because us "bush guys" call standing standing and squatting squatting.
If this was a safety issue then it is a different story.

The "bush leagues" are all relatively new and still growing and rules are added and changed as needed. Sometimes this takes some time and consideration. How would it work if everytime some know it all spouts off on the Hide with all the answers the "bush leagues" would change rules? Also remember the reason we have these matches to shoot is because guys are giving their free time to create a event so you can come out and have fun shooting with like minded guys an gals.

Another good idea would be to start your own league. Thats what the "bush guys" did and we are having a lot of fun!

Yes I'm sarcastic. But seriously guys this is mostly a childish bunch. I read this looking for things to consider as a MD. All I got out of it is........ ya nothing. Oh ya one thing! I probably dont want most of you at my match because if I do something wrong ya'll aint man enough to come over and say hey we got a issue over here so WE can go fix it. It will become a YOU trying to look good online later ruining it for people looking to get into a local "bush league" because they think our sport is full of people like this when in fact its a good solid bunch of awesome, fun loving, caring, helpful guys.

Cheers.

 

[DFOOSKING]

The last two NRL22X matches I participated in did not include an offhand stage of any kind. Why not?

Last weekend Saturday I helped RO our local X match. It had two stages with offhand in it. It wasn't the entire stage. But it was there. Then on Sunday we followed up the X match with the monthly non-X match....where there was another offhand stage. To add to it further....we shot "Option 2" for everything. Which if you don't know increases target size and distance but everything else remains the same.

That said, you aren't seeing it because people including the NRL itself has neutered the matches of unsupported.

People bitch because their guns are heavy. They are actively building guns to game 95% of the match. Then they complain they can't game their way out of the 5%. No sympathy here for them. Make your shit lighter, or get out and practice. Its not like we don't acknowledge that a 10/22 can be an advantage on targets like spinners. Then you can acknowledge and adapt your equipment for the inevitability of unsupported. Or don't. I don't really care. Live with your shitty heavy gun for that 5%.

I obviously don't mind the unsupported stages. But I am critical when the unsupported stage shows absolutely zero stage design. "Stand in one spot and shoot offhand for 10 rounds".

What they should be doing is intermixing unsupported with supported or barricade work. Start the stage with shooter in the sitting muzzle up. Shoot 2-4 rounds sitting. Then have them move over to the barrel or whatever. Then finish with 1 shot offhand....all or nothing. Same goes with movement in general. If they did stages with just a minimum of (there's practically none at all)....you'd see guns change to adapt.

You make an emphasis on the skill and yet not make it slog to get through. And often the stage designers lack in that aspect.

 

[DFOOSKING]

Oh ya one thing! I probably dont want most of you at my match because if I do something wrong ya'll aint man enough to come over and say hey we got a issue over here so WE can go fix it. It will become a YOU trying to look good online later ruining it for people looking to get into a local "bush league" because they think our sport is full of people like this when in fact its a good solid bunch of awesome, fun loving, caring, helpful guys.

WTF are you talking about?

The given examples were immediately taken up with MD.

Nobody was skulking in the shadows of the internet waiting till now to bring this up.

This has been known by every person at those matches practically immediately. With the MD being the first.

 

[Redfisher60]

Course design could solve this problem, just add a shooting box that is behind something that you cannot see past while "squatting". OR . . . . just use a better definition of "to Stand"

 

[beetroot]

I really enjoy that it's a local match with local people that are all out there to have fun and get better. It's much easier to enjoy then the regional/national level matches where there's $ on the line and everyone is trying to get an additional edge, get another sponsorship.

That's what the events I shoot are like, usually the 1st place prize is a box of chocolates.
If you are wanting to be a dick and argue something like squatting is equal to standing you might win the box of chocolates but you likely wont be attending anymore shoots.

I get gaming the system and trying to do the best you can in the stage rules, but something ridiculous like not knowing what "standing" means regardless of what's written in the rules says more about the shooter and less about the MD or the NRL handbook/rules.

 

[phlegethon]

Mostly because most shoot heavy rifles that are at an advantage on every other stage.

I’m not sure that’s it. People in sports where you do shoot offhand (high power, service rifle) will also add weights, though with more of a bias to the rear. I think it’s just that a lot of people don’t practice these skills.

 

[accurate obsession]

I’m not sure that’s it. People in sports where you do shoot offhand (high power, service rifle) will also add weights, though with more of a bias to the rear. I think it’s just that a lot of people don’t practice these skills.

Yes and No, basically I agree with you.
Any sport that requires a standing position XTC or service, yes they weight it but it will never weigh 22lbs.
No, people don't practice positional shooting, that's old-school boring and doesn't require super cool gear, just fundamentals. I too, dread seeing standing unsupported (I will always employ a sling) because my rifle is super front heavy just like the others we're talking about but with the good it does for me in the other 98% of the match it's worth it and you just suck-it-up and shoot.

 

[Gleedus]

WTF are you talking about?

The given examples were immediately taken up with MD.

Nobody was skulking in the shadows of the internet waiting till now to bring this up.

This has been known by every person at those matches practically immediately. With the MD being the first.

I was not talking about any specific time. Not all of these the MD knew about at the match. But that doesnt matter in relation to my statement. I'm talking about the general attitude that its always the MD or series fault for stage design or wording. It takes alot of work to create a good COF and think through how to word the stage brief and yet it is impossible to think through all possible "gaming" opportunities. I'm not perfect at match design and having people come up and say something helps us all have a better match.

 

[Ruff 364]

I'm lenient about the down rod since it's all 1/4", but the hanger, that's a miss I DGAF what the rule book doesn't say. Anyone who would try that and try to defend it, damn.

Agreed. I do paint mine to easily spot any crap like that and I have never had anyone try it either.

 

[vaguru]

Yes and No, basically I agree with you.
Any sport that requires a standing position XTC or service, yes they weight it but it will never weigh 22lbs.
No, people don't practice positional shooting, that's old-school boring and doesn't require super cool gear, just fundamentals. I too, dread seeing standing unsupported (I will always employ a sling) because my rifle is super front heavy just like the others we're talking about but with the good it does for me in the other 98% of the match it's worth it and you just suck-it-up and shoot.

Apparently you haven't shot XTC or service. My service rifle weighs 23 lbs, and all the members of the state team I shot with had rifles that weighed in that neighborhood, or more. Shot everything including Nationals at Camp Perry. Was a firing member of the Civilian National Championship Team, The Soldier of Marathon Trophy. Distinguished Rifleman and multiple Presidents Hundred recipient.

 

[accurate obsession]

Apparently you haven't shot XTC or service. My service rifle weighs 23 lbs, and all the members of the state team I shot with had rifles that weighed in that neighborhood, or more. Shot everything including Nationals at Camp Perry. Was a firing member of the Civilian National Championship Team, The Soldier of Marathon Trophy. Distinguished Rifleman and multiple Presidents Hundred recipient.

No I don't, mostly F-class. That's very surprising to me, I really thought that service rifle especially had tighter constraints on total weight, among other things. Interesting.

 

[kmckinnon]

Sounds like someone needs a dictionary, to discern the difference between "standing" and "squatting".

And it looks like someone needs to patent a new device. Something like a tripod with butt support. Call it "The Squatty Shotty"! Comes in Black, FDE or OD.

 

[iceng]

Just do what my local club does. Explain the stage, if someone wants to try and be a smart ass and game it, you get a zero. And you only find out after.

"Stage brief said standing. You were squatting, thusly, you didn't shoot the course of fire, and got zero."

I have received a few of these.

Also, I'm MD this weekend for our club match. I'm also not afraid to give people zero.

 

[Williwaw]

This issue is just like anything else in life.

It's up to me who I want to be and who I want to be seen with.

 

[chevy_man]

National level competitors reading the rulebook is par for the course...

Solution for the NRL "standing" issue should be something simlple, like shoot over a 1meter barricade or whatever...the purpose of teaching standing for field use to only to shoot over obstacles...there is no reason to outlaw the rice-paddy-prone from a stage that doesn't have a minimum height constraint...since it requires no extra gear, and is field serviceble.

Personally, however, I think NRL should just shoot true offhand (no slings). Thats its own skill IMHO. Nobody running tactical rifles is running with sling containing an arm loop anymore. So "slung-standing" is argubly more contrived in terms of field expediency vs rice paddy prone. Just a pick your poison kind of deal.

I run an Armageddon gear precision sling. I've used it because the match director figured it's attached to the rifle, takes me time to utilize, and isn't a "support" in the way a tripod would be.

I also will leave it installed for the entire match, even though it may get snagged on some stages, for the purpose of it being part of the rifle.

 

[308pirate]

Any sport that requires a standing position XTC or service, yes they weight it but it will never weigh 22lbs.

LOL

My AR-15A2 service rifle weighed 19 lbs with a full lead wedge in the stock cavity and a lead liner in the bottom handguard.

If I had added the second lead liner inside the top half of the handguard it would have easily weighed 22 lbs, and many guys did just that.

 

[A&8's]

The squatter: MD should have shut him down on this.

The tripod: Was it just an NRL22 match or was it a dual sanctioned match of NRL22 & PRS Rimfire? If dual, the MD can allow tripods for PRS Rimfire. However, they can't turn scores into NRL if a tripod was used.

 

[10X Rifles]

squatting with elbows on knee's is Rice Paddy Prone! Prone is NOT standing off hand!

 

[Ericbc7]

A sheet of plywood or a few straw bales would make the squatting position untenable, problem solved.

 

[sandwarrior]

Section C clearly defines the standard
https://nrl22.org/about/rules/

It says two feet on the ground. Nothing else. Not even what a legal sling is.

And, it's Section 5, sub sec. C, 2. ( 2. Standing unsupported position must have both feet on the ground)

 

[Gleedus]

Does the dictionary clearly define standing? If I tell you to put your two feet on the ground and stand up like a man what would you do? We all know what standing means very clearly. If we have to define standing then we also would have to define every definition we use to define standing as standing is already a clear definition of a posture.

Obviously tripods are not allowed and any sling is allowed so no defining required. We all know what a sling is.

 

[iceng]

You stand in line at a bbq. You stand to attention. No one can stand to be near me when I start yelling at them "STAND UP STRAIGHT YOU CHILDISH GIBBON".

 

[Gleedus]

Lmao "squatting" in line at a bbq....

 

[Litshoot]

my opinion and i think its fairly agreeable, squatting is a variation of the kneeling position not the standing position so its not directly against the rules it would not be in the spirit of the competition. also it provides support not affored in the offhand postion as the elbows are supported further down the rifle. that said i dont know how much of an advantage it would be against a good offhand shooter, and if your friend ever competes elsewhere he will either be stopped of dqd for the postion either way leaving him out of the match or out of practice for a proper position.

 

[roostercogburn98]

It says two feet on the ground. Nothing else. Not even what a legal sling is.

And, it's Section 5, sub sec. C, 2. ( 2. Standing unsupported position must have both feet on the ground)

Should have put more sarcasm in my post, my bad

 

[accurate obsession]

Pretty obvious that NRL.org left the definition of standing short and vague either wanting it that way to promote "innovation" or just assuming that everyone knows what standing is, you know, "common sense". Well, common sense has left the building. So if you expect to see it done a certain way there has to be a lawyer's paragraph on the stage brief or you just let it flow and watch the funny show.

 

[Gleedus]

I'm sure it has nothing to do with innovation as you call it... you hit the nail on the head about no common sense anymore.

 

[Schütze]

I'm actually not more surprised that so many guys argue about the definition of standing. Now try to argue with them about words like "fair" "election".... Those are the same people that need a safety fence around their pool because they are not able to teach their kids swimming. Common sense has left the building AND this country.

 

[Ruff 364]

A sheet of plywood or a few straw bales would make the squatting position untenable, problem solved.

A Match Director with a man card could do it with zero extra props....

 

[Schütze]

A Match Director with a man card could do it with zero extra props....

Yes, there it is. "Build a fence" instead of addressing the issue directly, like by something so easy then a conversation and setting the guy straight who tries to pull stunts like this squatting? And then charge all the guys who understand the meaning of standing, for the plywood / straw bales by raising the entry fee. Not to mention the extra time the MD needs to set this stuff up.

 

[Ruff 364]

Yes, there it is. "Build a fence" instead of addressing the issue directly, like by something so easy then a conversation and setting the guy straight who tries to pull stunts like this squatting? And then charge all the guys who understand the meaning of standing, for the plywood / straw bales by raising the entry fee. Not to mention the extra time the MD needs to set this stuff up.

Bingo.

I am lucky to have club support, onsite storage and a tractor and trailer for gear/props, other MD's have to truck it in each time.
I am opposed to causing any more costs to me or the shooters and work for me or the few that assist me.

I put a ton of my own time and money into our matches. In fact, I just built a 22 mover out of my own pocket for our shooters to enjoy.

We are very easy going, inclusive and will give any shooter the shirts off our backs. All we ask is the shooters are safe, pitch in when needed and compete fairly. If you cannot do that, our match isn't for you.

 

[Schütze]

Bingo.

I am lucky to have club support, onsite storage and a tractor and trailer for gear/props, other MD's have to truck it in each time.
I am opposed to causing any more costs to me or the shooters and work for me or the few that assist me.

I put a ton of my own time and money into our matches. In fact, I just built a 22 mover out of my own pocket for our shooters to enjoy.

We are very easy going, inclusive and will give any shooter the shirts off our backs. All we ask is the shooters are safe, pitch in when needed and compete fairly. If you cannot do that, our match isn't for you.

You have no idea Sir, how much I appreciate guys like yourself. I wouldn't have the time and patience you put into this, thanks a lot.

 

[Ruff 364]

You have no idea Sir, how much I appreciate guys like yourself. I wouldn't have the time and patience you put into this, thanks a lot.

Thank you. I started to MD as we had no PR in my area. I brought it in and working hard to develop us. I still have to drive a minimum of three hours to shoot someones else's match.

Shooters like you make it worth it.

 

[Gleedus]

Thank you. I started to MD as we had no PR in my area. I brought it in and working hard to develop us. I still have to drive a minimum of three hours to shoot someones else's match.

Shooters like you make it worth it.

Absolutely agree! Its a lot of work and effort to put on a match. In my case its on my land as well. After the match guys help clean up everything up theres no mess I have to clean up, people are grateful its awesome. Hey when guys come with helpful "complaints" that we can fix and make better we all enjoy it more! By and large we do have a great community!! Lets keep it growing.

 

[Ruff 364]

Absolutely agree! Its a lot of work and effort to put on a match. In my case its on my land as well. After the match guys help clean up everything up theres no mess I have to clean up, people are grateful its awesome. Hey when guys come with helpful "complaints" that we can fix and make better we all enjoy it more! By and large we do have a great community!! Lets keep it growing.

100% agree. I do it for the 95% and the other 5% can GFTS.

 

[RTH1800]

The rule is in the title. STANDING clearly means standing. The only way around it requires you to IGNORE the title.
The title is commonly regarded as the most important section of the paragraph.

If it read FLYING WITH BOTH FEET OFF THE GROUND simply having both feet off the ground while sitting on a stump and swinging your legs it would not qualify. It would ignore the fact and intent of the title.

 

[StLPro2A]

So I shot an NRL-22 match today here in Colorado. A good shooter who I know, and who shall remain nameless, was tearing up the "standing offhand" stage by squatting, like he was taking a shit in the forest, resting both elbows on both knees, thereby gaining some stability, that the traditional-position offhand shooters were of course missing.

The rest of us "traditional-position" competitors were standing, like normal people standing, like rimfire silhouette shooters do, per NRA rules, thinking that we were following the spirit of the NRL-22 rules.

The squatting dude, who I shall call "the shitter," even though I like him, and am not trying to crap on him personally, was cleaning the targets, as intended, with his improved, non-traditional, "standing" position, like he was on a shitter in the woods. OK....

I was squadded with the MD, who said that this was "under conversation" with NRL management, or whatever. Bull fucking shit! Gamers do what gamers gotta do, right? This is my view, anyway....

So why hasn't NRL-22 management addressed this matter, not that I GAF, as I do not compete in NRL-22 except today? Is it even an issue?

"SECTION 5, Rifle Rules, Classes, Scoring, 2021 Schedule, and Championship Qualification
2. Standing unsupported position must have both feet on the ground. ..."

Pretty loosely defined position. "Gamer" is merely playing by the rules as stated. Generally, the lower one is to the ground, the more stable one is. Why term one a "gamer" because he reads and interrupts rules to his benefit better than another player????

 

[*Nine]

"SECTION 5, Rifle Rules, Classes, Scoring, 2021 Schedule, and Championship Qualification
2. Standing unsupported position must have both feet on the ground. ..."

Pretty loosely defined position. "Gamer" is merely playing by the rules as stated. Generally, the lower one is to the ground, the more stable one is. Why term one a "gamer" because he reads and interrupts rules to his benefit better than another player????

Because those rules are so laughably inadequate you could argue that sitting your ass on the ground counts as "standing" as long as both feet are touching the ground and you'd technically be OK by the letter of the rules. If the NRL wants to be a serious organization they need to put more effort into the rules.

That said, later in the rules they do give MDs discretion to prohibit things they deem "unfair" or "unsportsmanlike." What we have here is a failure on multiple levels... the NRL's rules are shitty and invite this type of stupid shit, and the MD in this instance failed to maintain control over the integrity of their match by simply saying "no" to the shooter.

 

[6.5SH]

So for the gamers does that rule as written prevent sitting or kneeling? As both feet would still be on the ground.

IMO it isn't gaming, it is being willfully obtuse. Had the guy truly created some new position I could understand it. What he did was squatting, it is a known, defined term as is standing, even outside what the rule describes it as.

 

[22 Junkie Jer]

I recently brought this same debate up about the shooter at the match in SD. There was a similar split amongst the LRT community. Personally, I’m indifferent. I can see both sides of the debate, and acknowledge that both sides of the debate field valid arguments for, or against this modified shooting position.

I can also say that I first found out about the The Slovak Squat while shooting the NRL22 National Championship in Nebraska. I was quite surprised to hear the start command , and see a squadmate assume a squatted position (with both feet on the ground) and began his offhand volley to achieve a decent hit/miss ratio. Personally on that day, I decided in the moment that I wasn’t going to squat for my attempt. I scored the same as the guy who choose to squat for the stage. I did however make a mental note that the way he chose to shoot that stage wasn’t in violation of the rules, per the RO.

One thing that’s been mentioned in both discussions is that the ‘rules’ were not broken. This seems to reflect what I witnessed at the Championship.

Full disclosure...

I’m “The Shitter” in the photo that was posted earlier. The OP knows me, and has seen me shoot. He’s seen me do extremely well shooting standing off-hand (in the traditional sense) and now, he’s seen me shoot extremely well in a squatting off-hand. Was it gaming, or was it cheating? That was up to the MD, and I have a great deal of respect for local our MD, so I let him make the call before I ever considered the Slovak Squat. If he would’ve frowned on it.. I wouldn’t have even considered it. I choose to shoot it this way as a bit of a goof, knowing full welthat my closest competitor was going to shoot the same way when he ran the stage. It appears that we ruffled a feather or two.

I did feel a bit scummy for making the choice to shoot it the way I did. I will point out though, that between the two photo’s previously posted in here, it should be noted that one photo the shooter had a bag positioned on his knee, and one photo the shooter (myself) was actually shooting the stage off-hand. (Albeit, squatting) was it chicken $#!t? Yeah, maybe a little... was it kind of fun? Sure was! It was also a completely new shooting position that I’d never really tried before that day, and while it gave a bit more stability, it was still not a walk in the park.

 

[Goofster]

How are we shooting the next “standing” off hand stage fellas?

If you’re not gaming you’re not trying right?

 

[Gleedus]

How are we shooting the next “standing” off hand stage fellas? View attachment 7696047
View attachment 7696049
View attachment 7696050
If you’re not gaming you’re not trying right?

Lol! Middle one is out no tripod....