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Screw one leg off and it’s technically a bipod that position was surprisingly stable tooLol! Middle one is out no tripod....
Well I see that some of the shooters at last weekend's NCRGC NRL-22 match are at last weighing in on here. No, I don't think you're cheating. You are gaming NRL-22 management's poorly written rules. You're competitors, and that's what competitors do. Fine, I'm OK with it.If your sport had a ruleset that was worth a shit, match directors wouldn't have to define what standing is.
"Spirit of the game" and "MD has the final say" are clear signs of bush league.
And if y'all gonna leave a wide open rulebook, then spend more than 1 minute writing a stage description. Maybe include something called "prohibited actions"
I think a big problem in general is what people view as “gaming” (myself included) is picking apart the minutiae of a stage description and then asking/pressuring/bullying the RO or MD to allow them to do what they want. Or just doing it, knowing that basically no MD is going to zero them or kick them out of the match for doing it.
What gaming should be is creatively approaching a stage that is designed to have some open ended solution. Giving the shooter a choice in how to move, which targets to engage in which order, or which gear is beneficial to carry or not carry in a stage. Part of that is on the MD to design into stages as well. But asking an MD who is likely designing the COF in their spare time after their 9-5 is done and kids are in bed to write every stage as if they were a lawyer is not realistic.
the more appropriate question is how did you shoot it last weekend? did you shoot it like Jeramie?How are we shooting the next “standing” off hand stage fellas? View attachment 7696047
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If you’re not gaming you’re not trying right?
Could get away with that in
the more appropriate question is how did you shoot it last weekend? did you shoot it like Je
I shot it the same as him, ended up getting 495/520. All misses where on the offhand stage. While squatting is more stable I think it was a mistake trying it for the first time on match day.the more appropriate question is how did you shoot it last weekend? did you shoot it like Jeramie?
I recently brought this same debate up about the shooter at the match in SD. There was a similar split amongst the LRT community. Personally, I’m indifferent. I can see both sides of the debate, and acknowledge that both sides of the debate field valid arguments for, or against this modified shooting position.
I can also say that I first found out about the The Slovak Squat while shooting the NRL22 National Championship in Nebraska. I was quite surprised to hear the start command , and see a squadmate assume a squatted position (with both feet on the ground) and began his offhand volley to achieve a decent hit/miss ratio. Personally on that day, I decided in the moment that I wasn’t going to squat for my attempt. I scored the same as the guy who choose to squat for the stage. I did however make a mental note that the way he chose to shoot that stage wasn’t in violation of the rules, per the RO.
One thing that’s been mentioned in both discussions is that the ‘rules’ were not broken. This seems to reflect what I witnessed at the Championship.
Full disclosure...
I’m “The Shitter” in the photo that was posted earlier. The OP knows me, and has seen me shoot. He’s seen me do extremely well shooting standing off-hand (in the traditional sense) and now, he’s seen me shoot extremely well in a squatting off-hand. Was it gaming, or was it cheating? That was up to the MD, and I have a great deal of respect for local our MD, so I let him make the call before I ever considered the Slovak Squat. If he would’ve frowned on it.. I wouldn’t have even considered it. I choose to shoot it this way as a bit of a goof, knowing full welthat my closest competitor was going to shoot the same way when he ran the stage. It appears that we ruffled a feather or two.
I did feel a bit scummy for making the choice to shoot it the way I did. I will point out though, that between the two photo’s previously posted in here, it should be noted that one photo the shooter had a bag positioned on his knee, and one photo the shooter (myself) was actually shooting the stage off-hand. (Albeit, squatting) was it chicken $#!t? Yeah, maybe a little... was it kind of fun? Sure was! It was also a completely new shooting position that I’d never really tried before that day, and while it gave a bit more stability, it was still not a walk in the park.
No. We have a lot of fun at our local match. We sometimes do goofy stuff, for a laugh, and a bit of added fun. I knew before I shot the stage that I wasn’t going to take first in the match.Someone needed to squat to hit that giant target at 50 yards? Maybe they should give up shooting. They cheat but on a ridiculously easy stage.
You want to own up and admit to shooting the top of the kyl too? Once a cheater always a cheater.
Also these positional stages are sling only so the fact you had a bag on your rifle is double cheating. Do us a favor and sell your rifle.
You sure?? You said you were the "shitter" in the photo posted earlier. That photo the guy has a bag on his rifle.No. We have a lot of fun at our local match. We sometimes do goofy stuff, for a laugh, and a bit of added fun. I knew before I shot the stage that I wasn’t going to take first in the match.
The OP isn’t a regular attendee at our match. What he witnessed was the the two top competitors at the match goofing a little bit. I owned up to the gaming while I was shooting the stage, just like I’m owning it here. Maybe I deserved a zero for the stage, because of the “spirit of the sport”, and obviously this offends a bunch of people on the inter-webs. The fact of the matter is, it was fun. It was still challenging.
I’ve stomped more than my fair share of guys with $5-7000 rifles. I did it first with a 455, and now with a Bergara in the factory configuration with a trigger and a $500 optic from a brand new manufacturer.
Never shot the top of a KYL rack, I’ve missed plenty of 1/4” targets.. I’ve also connected with 1/4” KYL rack at 75 in 12 mph wind in a snow storm in freezing temps at an X match. I’ve also never shot an offhand stage with a bag on my rifle. That would just be weight on my rifle that isn’t needed.
Sir, you sound salty. Are you a Vudoo shooter that gets smoked by guys with CZ’s, and Savages?
Bud you got lost back there in this thread. There were 2 photos posted. One was me, the one with the “2021 NRL22 Nationals” t-shirt on.. and one was not the second photo was of another shooter who had the bag on his knee.You sure?? You said you were the "shitter" in the photo posted earlier. That photo the guy has a bag on his rifle.
Looks like its resting on your knee. What happened to "unsupported"
I dont shoot a vudoo. Started with cz now rimx.
If you shot at nationals you would know most of us got smoked by a young gun with a base tikka. What's your point?
4th Saturday of the Month, every month. Held at NCRGC in LaPorte, CO. Come on out! We love to see new faces at our club.Sounds like I need to show up next time I'm back at the farm.
You guys have any steady schedule for matches and locations?
J, Your new "custom title" is hilarious! See you around!4th Saturday of the Month, every month. Held at NCRGC in LaPorte, CO. Come on out! We love to see new faces at our club.
May I refer you to your own "Keep Calm and terminate with extreme prejudice"?So I shot an NRL-22 match today here in Colorado. A good shooter who I know, and who shall remain nameless, was tearing up the "standing offhand" stage by squatting, like he was taking a shit in the forest, resting both elbows on both knees, thereby gaining some stability, that the traditional-position offhand shooters were of course missing.
The rest of us "traditional-position" competitors were standing, like normal people standing, like rimfire silhouette shooters do, per NRA rules, thinking that we were following the spirit of the NRL-22 rules.
The squatting dude, who I shall call "the shitter," even though I like him, and am not trying to crap on him personally, was cleaning the targets, as intended, with his improved, non-traditional, "standing" position, like he was on a shitter in the woods. OK....
I was squadded with the MD, who said that this was "under conversation" with NRL management, or whatever. Bull fucking shit! Gamers do what gamers gotta do, right? This is my view, anyway....
So why hasn't NRL-22 management addressed this matter, not that I GAF, as I do not compete in NRL-22 except today? Is it even an issue?
So I shot an NRL-22 match today here in Colorado. A good shooter who I know, and who shall remain nameless, was tearing up the "standing offhand" stage by squatting, like he was taking a shit in the forest, resting both elbows on both knees, thereby gaining some stability, that the traditional-position offhand shooters were of course missing.
The rest of us "traditional-position" competitors were standing, like normal people standing, like rimfire silhouette shooters do, per NRA rules, thinking that we were following the spirit of the NRL-22 rules.
The squatting dude, who I shall call "the shitter," even though I like him, and am not trying to crap on him personally, was cleaning the targets, as intended, with his improved, non-traditional, "standing" position, like he was on a shitter in the woods. OK....
I was squadded with the MD, who said that this was "under conversation" with NRL management, or whatever. Bull fucking shit! Gamers do what gamers gotta do, right? This is my view, anyway....
So why hasn't NRL-22 management addressed this matter, not that I GAF, as I do not compete in NRL-22 except today? Is it even an issue?
So I shot an NRL-22 match today here in Colorado. A good shooter who I know, and who shall remain nameless, was tearing up the "standing offhand" stage by squatting, like he was taking a shit in the forest, resting both elbows on both knees, thereby gaining some stability, that the traditional-position offhand shooters were of course missing.
The rest of us "traditional-position" competitors were standing, like normal people standing, like rimfire silhouette shooters do, per NRA rules, thinking that we were following the spirit of the NRL-22 rules.
The squatting dude, who I shall call "the shitter," even though I like him, and am not trying to crap on him personally, was cleaning the targets, as intended, with his improved, non-traditional, "standing" position, like he was on a shitter in the woods. OK....
I was squadded with the MD, who said that this was "under conversation" with NRL management, or whatever. Bull fucking shit! Gamers do what gamers gotta do, right? This is my view, anyway....
So why hasn't NRL-22 management addressed this matter, not that I GAF, as I do not compete in NRL-22 except today? Is it even an issue?
I've seen this one before. When I was MD for the now defunct Boulder Rifle Club RF match, we had a 50KYL rack, and first match, a few shooters were aiming for the 1x2" crossbar fasteners instead of the much smaller intended targets, and claiming hits. Sounds like what you describe above. I put a stop to that, because as MD, I could.Hi, my name is Hlee, and I gamed a 22lr comp stage.
I shot the hanger on a 50 yard KYL. Not the top of the hanger, but the 1/4" post that the target hangs from. I knew that aiming a bit high gave me more latitude on the 1/4" target and went for it. I cleaned the stage.
Well, in my particular instance, the aim point was such that if the bullet impacted slightly low, it would still impact the 1/4" target. But, if it stayed true, it would impact just above the 1/4" target, on the 1/4" wide post. And, yeah, you know when you hit the targets as intended because they do loops for a while, though we count the grazing impacts that cause the target to swing but not go 360.I've seen this one before. When I was MD for the now defunct Boulder Rifle Club RF match, we had a 50KYL rack, and first match, a few shooters were aiming for the 1x2" crossbar fasteners instead of the much smaller intended targets, and claiming hits. Sounds like what you describe above. I put a stop to that, because as MD, I could.
Next, we would always have a shooter who said the KYL target "shimmied" or "wiggled," so, calling bullshit again, I created a rule whereby a hit only counted if the target rotated 360 deg. around the crossbar.
And this was in an outlaw match, i.e. no NRL or PRS affiliation, no prize table, no cash payout, just bragging rights. And still, the gamers gonna game....
The simplest fucking solution it to drop unsupported standing stages altogether. I mean, everyone fucking hates this stage except for the one fucker who's been practicing this his whole life just to game this stage anyway.
NRL's supposed to keep it fair and ethical. Perhaps NRL will start adding an asterisk next to the "shitty Shooter's" scores?
Here we go again lol, Squatting > Prone > Tripod , everything allowed for the cheaters.... And I don't care anymore.Maybe they can start by defining what standing is in their rulebook......
Here we go again lol, Squatting > Prone > Tripod , everything allowed for the cheaters.... And I don't care anymore.
Again, a good MD with his man card can solve these issues with easy, bravo. It only matters what the spotter calls, I as the MD did not see what the spotter did and it's their call.I've seen this one before. When I was MD for the now defunct Boulder Rifle Club RF match, we had a 50KYL rack, and first match, a few shooters were aiming for the 1x2" crossbar fasteners instead of the much smaller intended targets, and claiming hits. Sounds like what you describe above. I put a stop to that, because as MD, I could.
Next, we would always have a shooter who said the KYL target "shimmied" or "wiggled," so, calling bullshit again, I created a rule whereby a hit only counted if the target rotated 360 deg. around the crossbar.
And this was in an outlaw match, i.e. no NRL or PRS affiliation, no prize table, no cash payout, just bragging rights. And still, the gamers gonna game....
I go to your matches to have fun. You're doing an excellent job.I am the MD in question. Prior to the match, I was told by several competitors that it was allowed at NRL22 Nationals so I allowed it locally. Did I screw up? Maybe. Did anyone die? No.
Dude, a KYL impact does not have to spin 360 degrees around the hanger to be an impact.. an impact on the left or right edge will not produce a compete spin, and there’s a lot of rifles that simply aren’t capable of center punching a 1/2” KYL target.I've seen this one before. When I was MD for the now defunct Boulder Rifle Club RF match, we had a 50KYL rack, and first match, a few shooters were aiming for the 1x2" crossbar fasteners instead of the much smaller intended targets, and claiming hits. Sounds like what you describe above. I put a stop to that, because as MD, I could.
Next, we would always have a shooter who said the KYL target "shimmied" or "wiggled," so, calling bullshit again, I created a rule whereby a hit only counted if the target rotated 360 deg. around the crossbar.
And this was in an outlaw match, i.e. no NRL or PRS affiliation, no prize table, no cash payout, just bragging rights. And still, the gamers gonna game....
"You know ima damn good shooter" Big Eye Roll....You’ve seen me shoot man, you’ve seen me crush Vudoos and RimX’s, you’d seen me crush it standing offhand. You’ve seen me clean stages that no one else cleaned.. you know I’m a damn good shooter.
Come on out to the CRC match with your sidekick!After this, I have half a mind to show up at your bench, belly, or tripod match down by the airport, and bring Goofster with me so the two of us can just to burn that match down also.
The funny one I remember was a fixed structure barricade and hard angle targets.Honest question: what’s an example of gaming a USPSA stage?
You "crushed" other shooters, maybe...you didn't "crush" other guns.Dude, a KYL impact does not have to spin 360 degrees around the hanger to be an impact.. an impact on the left or right edge will not produce a compete spin, and there’s a lot of rifles that simply aren’t capable of center punching a 1/2” KYL target.
It’s possible you have a knack for sapping the fun out of shooting these matches, and your idea of fun doesn’t necessarily align with the shooting community at large. Which could be why the RF match you were directing went tits up.
After this, I have half a mind to show up at your bench, belly, or tripod match down by the airport, and bring Goofster with me so the two of us can just to burn that match down also. You’ve seen me shoot man, you’ve seen me crush Vudoos and RimX’s, you’d seen me crush it standing offhand. You’ve seen me clean stages that no one else cleaned.. you know I’m a damn good shooter. But haven’t done much of anything in this thread beside bust balls for goofing with a buddy.
You "crushed" other shooters, maybe...you didn't "crush" other guns.
Who is this?"You know ima damn good shooter" Big Eye Roll....
Come on out to the CRC match with your sidekick!
"Burn it down," LOL. But remember, it's an outlaw match so you won't get any of your coveted NRL-22 points!
I haven’t shit on anyone. Except Starbuck’s feelers when I shot in a way that he didn’t approve of. What I said in this thread is that I’ve beat my fair share of Vudoos and RimXs.That's my favorite part of his posts. He's shitting on people who like to buy nice things. Better golfers beat people with more expensive equipment all the time. Doesn't mean anything.
I'm not sure he crushes anyone since he got 142nd at nationals.
LOL, I take that as a compliment! Your sense of self-importance is comical.Bunch of sniper typers...
Good god man.. get a life.LOL, I take that as a compliment! Your sense of self-importance is comical.
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Ease off the caffeine folks , None of this will mean a thing when every firearm we own becomes illegal..I haven’t shit on anyone. Except Starbuck’s feelers when I shot in a way that he didn’t approve of. What I said in this thread is that I’ve beat my fair share of Vudoos and RimXs.
Yes, I didn’t shoot great at nationals. That was my first two day match in my life. It was my first match of that size. It was a lot of firsts for me. But why don’t you take a look at how many monthly matches I’ve won at NCRGC. Bunch of sniper typers... Starbuck shot a 150, for last place. How many times have I shot for last place since I started shooting competition 1.5 years ago? Exactly 0 times. I don’t bust anyone who has nice gear, or a nice rifle. But, I also don’t envy them. I’m content with my equipment. I consistently shoot above 400 at our local match, even breaking 500 once. My scores have shown that I put in the work to shoot consistently well.
I’ll invite any of you to show up and shoot a match against me, you might teach me a thing or two... and then again, you might go home with a lesson learned yourself. Type all you want keyboard shooters, but until you show up out here and shoot against me, it’s nothing but a bunch of blabbing and noise on the interwebs.
Never said anything behind your back. Never named you. You came on here and got all defensive. My beef is not with you or your sidekick Goofster - my problem is with the NRL rulebook. See my post 153.Good god man.. get a life.
I get it, you didn’t like that I shot a Slovak squat. But here’s the facts...
1. I saw this position allowed at nationals.
2. I wasn’t the first guy to shoot this way. Both at our club, and not at our club.
3. I talked with the MD about it -before- the match even began.
4. You shot the same COF as I did, and scored 15 impacts out of 52. I scored 44 of 52.
5. You were cleared to shoot the same position as I had.
6. You chose not to.
It’s possible, our personalities clash. You’re the type of person to jump on Internet forums and talk shit about people behind their back.. while I’m not that kind of person. What you didn’t expect, is me to see this..
I’ll see you at Cameo in a week. Good luck to you. Just remember when you’re there, you’ll be talking shit about the guy who’s shooting an X match with his family.