Rifle Scopes Help me pick mid-range FFP scope, first PR

[ruger35]

I've tried to read through every thread and Youtube video reviews from at least what seems reputable sources, and I have narrowed my scope choices down to these few scopes. I was hoping maybe someone who hasn't posted a specific thread may have some experience with multiple of these scopes and can compare. Eotech Vudu being the cheapest choice, Cronus BTR about $30 more than Vudu, and the Xtr III being the most expensive ($350 more than Vudu).

Will be used on my first dedicated long range gun (Tikka T3 Tac A1), targets up to 600 yards. Hoping to make my first training class next year. Maybe after a class or two, I may try my hand at local PRS but that is way down the road. First, I'd like to become a proficient marksman at extended ranges. If it seems like another noob posting a scope thread, roast away. I get a kick out of how creative the interwebz can be!

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

Honestly, I think you're remiss to overlook the Bushnell XRS II in that price range. It's one hell of a lot of scope for $1699. I've been running two of them since they were released, and I've been very satisfied with them. Glass is excellent, they track perfectly, and they've held up to bumps, knocks, and even a rifle landing on one without issue.

 

[ruger35]

Honestly, I think you're remiss to overlook the Bushnell XRS II in that price range. It's one hell of a lot of scope for $1699. I've been running two of them since they were released, and I've been very satisfied with them. Glass is excellent, they track perfectly, and they've held up to bumps, knocks, and even a rifle landing on one without issue.

I actually was very interested in this optic, just seemed like for an equal scope the minimum parallax required for the XRS II may have been a deal breaker. I guess with a dedicated range gun, only hunting if I absolutely need it, the parallax wouldn't bean issue?

 

[ruger35]

I got to go hands on with the XTR III this weekend. It was very very good.

I have the Athlon. It’s also very very good.

And I have shot the Vudu. I like it more for the ability to mount my Simrad NV units on it then anything else - It looks like it uses the HDMR optical design which was pretty good.

If I had to do it again I’d get the XTRIII right now.

The main issue with your ask is that all 3 scopes are thoroughly acceptable and will work for your intended purpose.

I do agree with you, they will all do the job and do it well I am sure. I just like to read and research too much I think! I am glad to hear of your experience with the XTR III, I have enjoyed reading of the Burris' toughness and seems like they improved the things people recommended from the previous model.

 

[Fig]

This thread is very disappointing. Comon guys!

Do I have to be the first one to recommend to the padwan a $5,200 scope?

Tangent Theta Model TT525P Professional Marksman 5-25x56mm Illuminated 34mm 28mrad .1 mrad adj. H59 Reticle Riflescope 800100-0007

FREE SHIPPING on Tangent Theta Model TT525P Professional Marksman 5-25x56mm Illuminated 34mm Mrad Adjust H59 Reticle Riflescope 800100-0007

www.eurooptic.com

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

I actually was very interested in this optic, just seemed like for an equal scope the minimum parallax required for the XRS II may have been a deal breaker. I guess with a dedicated range gun, only hunting if I absolutely need it, the parallax wouldn't bean issue?

For hunting inside 100 yards (The XRS2 adjusts down to 75 on parallax), I don't think parallax error is going to be enough to cause an issue, really.

 

[ruger35]

This thread is very disappointing. Comon guys!
View attachment 7188088
Do I have to be the first one to recommend to the padwan a $5,200 scope?

Tangent Theta Model TT525P Professional Marksman 5-25x56mm Illuminated 34mm 28mrad .1 mrad adj. H59 Reticle Riflescope 800100-0007

FREE SHIPPING on Tangent Theta Model TT525P Professional Marksman 5-25x56mm Illuminated 34mm Mrad Adjust H59 Reticle Riflescope 800100-0007

www.eurooptic.com

I knew at some point it would be coming since I didn't explicitly state a budget. I thought three scopes within $300 of each other may prolong it though! LOL

 

[ruger35]

In your spot, I would aggressively hunt deals for Black Friday and open up a bit about your choices.

For example, @gr8fuldoug and CameraLand are running some good deals on Bushnell + Kestrel packages right now and some other goodies.

You probably need to decide on a Christmas tree reticle vs a traditional one.

I run the christmas tree ones to remove a variable from my work (where is the knob at), cut down wear and tear on my optic by not moving the erector tube and screws as much, and to allow me to use my RAPTAR laser without having to go back to zero to get a read.

Additionally, the VUdU is little. like very little. This can be a good thing for a semi-auto or clip on Nv rig.

Not totally against a Christmas tree, but in the Burris I was looking at the standard Mil reticle and not the tree. Those 3 aren't the end all be all choices, but without seeing the Black Friday Ads yet they are the best prices. I figured I needed to watch for a Gen 2 Razor as a choice for a possible sale. Actually have purchased an Optika 6 for my hunting rifle from CameraLandNY a couple weeks ago. Great guys.

 

[TheGerman]

 

[koshkin]

Honestly, all three are good scopes and they will all do what you want them to do.

Vudu was a very pleasant surprise for me, but it is at its best under 20x.

I have not tested Burris XTR3 yet, so I can not comment.

Cronus is a good design and it has been out for little bit now, so it is a known quantity.

If you want good high mag performance in this price range, you should also consider Delta Stryker HD 4.5-30x56. The design seems related to Cronus, but the ones I have seen are a little better optimized it seems and I somewhat prefer Stryker reticle.

What magnification do you usually shoot at? If you do not need to go very high in terms of magnification, you should also consider Brownells MPO 3-18x50. It is a very competent design for not a lot of money, comparatively speaking.

Lastly, what reticle are you looking for? That will make a difference in terms of what you choose.

ILya

 

[ruger35]

Honestly, all three are good scopes and they will all do what you want them to do.

Vudu was a very pleasant surprise for me, but it is at its best under 20x.

I have not tested Burris XTR3 yet, so I can not comment.

Cronus is a good design and it has been out for little bit now, so it is a known quantity.

If you want good high mag performance in this price range, you should also consider Delta Stryker HD 4.5-30x56. The design seems related to Cronus, but the ones I have seen are a little better optimized it seems and I somewhat prefer Stryker reticle.

What magnification do you usually shoot at? If you do not need to go very high in terms of magnification, you should also consider Brownells MPO 3-18x50. It is a very competent design for not a lot of money, comparatively speaking.

Lastly, what reticle are you looking for? That will make a difference in terms of what you choose.

ILya

Last time at the 100 yard range I felt like I stayed between 6-12 for the most part playing around with the new Optika. I have never tried a Christmas tree honestly, first thoughts are I would rather a clearer sight picture like the SCR Mil of the XTIII instead of the SCR2. Not totally opposed to it though, I can see the benefits to it. I would just like more training with it. I will look up the Delta Stryker, thanks for the recs. Actually have been watching your videos while I'm stuck working OT this weekend.

 

[Spblademaker]

Have you looked at the Arken yet?

 

[Danattherock]

Call Doug at camera Land NY and get that Bushnell DMR II with kestrel package for around $1000. That's the best deal I've seen in a long long time.

 

[ssdrew]

Out of the 3, XTR3...but I agree, that DMR2 at cameraland is a smoking deal

 

[ruger35]

Was able to grab a XRS2 from the PX for what I think was a great price. Thanks for the input fellas.

 

[ssdrew]

Awesome man, I've got a Gen1 XRS and love it...well other than the overly tall turrents

 

[ruger35]

Hopefully gun and scope are here next week. Will try and grab a mount during black Friday.

 

[ssdrew]

@ruger35 Keep an eye on the PX section...I've grabbed my last 2 badger mounts from there for an awesome deal.

 

[ruger35]

@ruger35 Keep an eye on the PX section...I've grabbed my last 2 badger mounts from there for an awesome deal.

I'll definitely be watching, hoping to snag a badger or Nightforce

 

[beetroot]

Not totally against a Christmas tree, but in the Burris I was looking at the standard Mil reticle and not the tree. Those 3 aren't the end all be all choices, but without seeing the Black Friday Ads yet they are the best prices. I figured I needed to watch for a Gen 2 Razor as a choice for a possible sale. Actually have purchased an Optika 6 for my hunting rifle from CameraLandNY a couple weeks ago. Great guys.

A well known Hide Vortex dealer has very good prices on Razors Gen 2s, put's them well with the price range you are considering.

 

[Sanwizard]

Not totally against a Christmas tree, but in the Burris I was looking at the standard Mil reticle and not the tree. Those 3 aren't the end all be all choices, but without seeing the Black Friday Ads yet they are the best prices. I figured I needed to watch for a Gen 2 Razor as a choice for a possible sale. Actually have purchased an Optika 6 for my hunting rifle from CameraLandNY a couple weeks ago. Great guys.

I must agree. I met doug at Cameraland right before black friday. Really nice guy and he knows his optics. I looked through the bushnell with him, and the glass is very nice, and the price for black friday was outstanding. I did not purchase it however, as I came across a chinese brand called Vector Optics, who's glass at $400 for a 5-30x55 scope was just as good as the Bushnell and high end Athlon's. I showed Doug the scope, and he said he would look closer at the company and may start carrying them. They use Schott glass, and the clarity and brightness for the price are special. Only the Taurus and Continental though, as the turrets on the other models may be iffy. Lifetime warranty also.

I had to bring it up, since they seem to be such a good value. Speaking of value, I just bought the new Brownells MPO also, as Illya (Dark Lord of Optics) seems to think it may be a game changer.

 

[Bender]

I must agree. I met doug at Cameraland right before black friday. Really nice guy and he knows his optics. I looked through the bushnell with him, and the glass is very nice, and the price for black friday was outstanding. I did not purchase it however, as I came across a chinese brand called Vector Optics, who's glass at $400 for a 5-30x55 scope was just as good as the Bushnell and high end Athlon's. I showed Doug the scope, and he said he would look closer at the company and may start carrying them. They use Schott glass, and the clarity and brightness for the price are special. Only the Taurus and Continental though, as the turrets on the other models may be iffy. Lifetime warranty also.

I had to bring it up, since they seem to be such a good value. Speaking of value, I just bought the new Brownells MPO also, as Illya (Dark Lord of Optics) seems to think it may be a game changer.

Chinese “Game Changer”???

@TheGerman

 

[koshkin]

Chinese “Game Changer”???

@TheGerman

Brownells MPO is Japanese.

Vector is Chinese. I have not looked at any Vector scopes for a few years. When I last checked on them a while back, I was deeply unimpressed, but evrything changes.

ILya

 

[Bender]

Brownells MPO is Japanese.

Vector is Chinese. I have not looked at any Vector scopes for a few years. When I last checked on them a while back, I was deeply unimpressed, but evrything changes.

ILya

But it has Schott glass yo...

is it 2015 again?

 

[Sanwizard]

But it has Schott glass yo...

is it 2015 again?

That's what they told me. Schott glass. Have a look through the Continental 30x56 and let me know what you think. I was so impressed with their Taurus scope that I bought the SCOL-22T Continental for my 338LM.

 

[Fig]

Which shot glass?

This one?

Or this one?

 

[koshkin]

Schott glass again? Seriously?

I am out. Phillip will, I am sure, show up any moment now and I am not dealing with this bullshit again

ILya

 

[Sanwizard]

Schott glass again? Seriously?

I am out. Phillip will, I am sure, show up any moment now and I am not dealing with this bullshit again

ILya

Ok, I have no idea what I stepped into, and who Phillip is, but it sounds like vendors claims of the use of German glass is more common than I was aware. Is that the case? I am new to this forum, and riflescopes in general. That's why I come here to learn.

 

[koshkin]

Ok, I have no idea what I stepped into, and who Phillip is, but it sounds like vendors claims of the use of German glass is more common than I was aware. Is that the case? I am new to this forum, and riflescopes in general. That's why I come here to learn.

Here are the Cliff's notes:

1) Many unscrupulous marketing people at various scope companies claim that because they use Schott glass, their products are superior. I do not know who started this idiotic notion, but it sure has legs.

2) There are several raw glass manufacturers, Schott being one of them, who make absolutely superb optical glass in a dizzying variety of chemical compositions: Schott, Ohara, etc. It makes no difference whose glass you use as long as it is a reputable manufacturers and you pay for quality. Pricewise, they are pretty similar.

ILya

 

[Sanwizard]

Here are the Cliff's notes:

1) Many unscrupulous marketing people at various scope companies claim that because they use Schott glass, their products are superior. I do not know who started this idiotic notion, but it sure has legs.

2) There are several raw glass manufacturers, Schott being one of them, who make absolutely superb optical glass in a dizzying variety of chemical compositions: Schott, Ohara, etc. It makes no difference whose glass you use as long as it is a reputable manufacturers and you pay for quality. Pricewise, they are pretty similar.

ILya

Ah. Thanks for the heads up. Hopefully I will be able to steer clear of unscrupulous vendors. I still say the Vector Optics Continental and Taurus scopes( Continental is SFP and has a 42mm ocular lens, Taurus is FFP with 38mm ocular lens. Both have 100mm eye relief) have outstanding clarity and brightness for the $400-$500 range they are in. I just purchased the Brownells MPO based on your review, and I will be comparing it with the Vector Optics Continental, which has the clearest glass I have seen so far. ( I returned a SightMark Pinnacle, Primary Arms GLx, Nikon Black x1000, and Athlon Ares BTR, which the Vector smoked at 1/3 the cost).

Their marketing folks let me know they will be at shot show this month with a new FFP variant of the Continental that has a 34mm tube. I am looking forward to getting my hands on it to see if its better than the Brownells MPO 34mm scope which I just paid $1000 for. Their tactical reticle is similar to the Brownells, with an illuminated floating dot, but uses the smaller dots instead of of the hashes in the tree, which you indicated you did not like in the Brownells 18x from Your review. If you get to check one out, I would love your opinion good or bad, as I trust your expertise.

 

[chevy_man]

Pick the reticle you like.

Then think about if you need or want locking turrets or a capped windage. Zero stop is almost a given at that price but you'd better double check as that's necessary in my book.

Then look at the resale if you think you'll end up buying 5-6 to keep 1.

 

[Steel head]

Pick the reticle you like.

Then think about if you need or want locking turrets or a capped windage. Zero stop is almost a given at that price but you'd better double check as that's necessary in my book.

Then look at the resale if you think you'll end up buying 5-6 to keep 1.

good advice

I have the Cronus it’s excellent
I’m confident the XTRIIII is gtg as well.
I know little about the other.

pick the features you like and pick.
I‘M confident you’ll be happy with it.

 

[koshkin]

Ah. Thanks for the heads up. Hopefully I will be able to steer clear of unscrupulous vendors. I still say the Vector Optics Continental and Taurus scopes( Continental is SFP and has a 42mm ocular lens, Taurus is FFP with 38mm ocular lens. Both have 100mm eye relief) have outstanding clarity and brightness for the $400-$500 range they are in. I just purchased the Brownells MPO based on your review, and I will be comparing it with the Vector Optics Continental, which has the clearest glass I have seen so far. ( I returned a SightMark Pinnacle, Primary Arms GLx, Nikon Black x1000, and Athlon Ares BTR, which the Vector smoked at 1/3 the cost).

Their marketing folks let me know they will be at shot show this month with a new FFP variant of the Continental that has a 34mm tube. I am looking forward to getting my hands on it to see if its better than the Brownells MPO 34mm scope which I just paid $1000 for. Their tactical reticle is similar to the Brownells, with an illuminated floating dot, but uses the smaller dots instead of of the hashes in the tree, which you indicated you did not like in the Brownells 18x from Your review. If you get to check one out, I would love your opinion good or bad, as I trust your expertise.

5-30x56 Continental has 17.5mrad of adjustment which is a little on the low side a scope of this type. Hopefully, the next version will have a little more. The reticle is based around 0.25 mrad intervals which is kinda silly given that the industry has more or less settled on 0.2mrad as the bade measurement. That's pretty much a no go too. Looking at their reticle drawing, there are obvious mistakes in some dimensions they list which is a little amateurish, but it happens.

Taurus 4-24x50 has the same issues with adjustment (15 mrad). The reticle looks a little more coherent, although outdated by modern standards.

I am moderately certain I know who the OEM for these scope is, so they should be OK.

ILya