Help With a Spotter Purchase

[woodmann]

I'm looking to buy a spotter before deer season in PA. Been reading threads until my eyes are bleeding. Would use it out to 700 yds for looking over and picking out whitetail deer in overgrown fields (mostly brown/dead goldenrods and switchgrass). In the off season I will use it for picking out .22 and .30 cal holes on paper, at 2-300 yds-longer shots on steel. I originally wanted to keep my purchase under $500 and was looking at a Vortex Viper (non-HD) 20-60x80 for $499. I then found a Zen Ray 20-60-x82 for $750-all reviews are positive on it that I can find.

Is there anything in this price range that I am missing? Is the Zen Ray worth 50% more than the Vortex? Is Celestron worth considering? Any others??

I've always tried to buy upper end cheap glass if that makes any sense. I want to buy once/cry once and be able to see a difference-within my blue collar budget.

All replies and advice are appreciated. Been lurking here for a while. (I learn more with my mouth and fingers not moving.)

 

[2_many_dogs]

More data. The 60mm Konus spotter will pick up .223 hits on paper at 200 with good lighting or good target contrast (hits in the black are hard to see). .30 cal hits out to 300 again with good lighting. As implied by that, if the lighting is wrong or the hole is on or near a number or scoring line, I really struggle to find them, as the resolving capability is not the best.

It is much less of a struggle with my Kowa. You might be able to find a used Kowa in your price range. I also find that colors look wrong in the Konus and right inthe Kowa. This may help you when trying to pick out brown animals in a field of brown. And when glassing something for long periods of time, good glass keeps the headaches away for me.

In optics, the more money you spend, the less hard you have to work.

One guy I know does use a Celestron at high power matches. It seems to work well for him and the resolution is really good (big ass objective). It is a celestial telescope so it inverts the image. If you can do the mental re-inversion, it's not that bad. He transports that in a huge ass hard case as it is a bit fragile.

Not much, but I hope it helps.

 

[Bounce]

I thought I had done my research well and had settled upon the Zen Ray, even ordered one, until I saw reviews on the Meopta Meostar, so I changed my order. For the price, I believe that it's the best on the market. That said, at your price point, I think that the Zen Ray is a superb choice.
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[pepper 2111]

I'm not a spotting scope guru, in fact i've only looked through a few of the higher end kowa's. I just recently picked up a cheap konus and it looks pretty darn good for under $200. I used to sell high end audio/video equipment, and i completely believe in diminishing returns. Meaning eventually you will eventually reach a point where the human eye/ear can't tell the difference, granted everyone's eyes and ears are different. The specs might be better and instruments might be able to measure the differences between this and that etc. but you might not be able to. With that said, i haven't got a chance to compare the konus side by side with any other brands or models, but i'm skeptical that anything out there would be THAT much better for the price. i could be COMPLETELY wrong so if i offend anyone with my novice opinion then i'm sorry. After all it is just my opinion. But as far as a spotting scope goes, i rather have something that will get the job done and have a little extra $$$ for some more ammo. my opinion

 

[woodmann]

I appreciate everyone's responses so far. 90% of what I've read about the Konus has been positive, but I'm just not sure if I spend another $500 dollars, will the difference justify the cost. I've used other peoples cheap spotters before (Gander Mountain brand, Winchester, and Burris). They all blew when the power goes above 20 or 30. I know that you get what you pay for most of the time, but I guess like everyone else I want to spend the least and get the most. Just trying to find the break point, if it exists, where I'm spending money unnecessarily for a difference I can't see or need. If a $220 Konus will do 90% of what a Zen Ray or Kowa will do then maybe that's all that I need.

Most of my rifle scopes are in the $3-$400 dollar range and that is where my experience is. I don't really know what I am missing out on other than what the spec sheets tell me.

 

[pepper 2111]

I think your best bet will be to see if you can find a few different models and look through them. Maybe you will see something that will justify the cost. If you can't, I think the konus will do just fine. I have a vortex razor scope, which is supposed to be really good glass and as mentioned before, my initial impressions of the konus are good

 

[Danco411]

I must went through this. I had a cheap Barska for close in stuff but it failed terribly when used as a spotter at 1K. It would just not resolve enough to spot hits let alone misses. I did not have the budget for another expensive optic so I was looking for something that would do the job and not break the bank. After a week of research I was down to the Celestron 100mm or the Konus 80mm. I got a Konus on Amazon delivered for $209 with my prime account. I am very pleased with the quality of the glass for this price. It's a big honkin thing but it does the job on my Manfrotto 190 PROXB tripod. I had a chance to look through a Vortex HD and I think the Konus is close for a bunch less cash. If you buy from Amazon they make it easy to return if your not happy.

 

[zenbiker]

I'd look seriousl at the Kowa line. I have a 60 ED and its like loojing at a top of the line hi-def tv. Like you say, buy once, cry for a moment, then realize you got yoursef a top notch piece of glass. Good Luck, man.



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[woodmann]

Anyone have any input between a Kowa Spotting Scope TSN-821M with 20-60X Eyepiece and a ZEN-RAY - ZEN ED2
20-60x82mm Angled Spotter for $750 (new). The Kowa is on Ebay currently at $627 with an hour left to go.

P.S. I'd prefer not to get into a bidding war with a hide member.....

 

[RobertB]

I'm happy with my Lupy Compact 15-30 spotter. Light weight and compact. Does well for me. I'm not into range dedicated spotters myself so this was exactly what I needed. I still use it at the range and it does well. But if I want to carry it afield, it's much better.

Good Luck!

 

[jdr724]

LEUPOLD Mark-4 12-40x60 Tactical Spotting Scope, Front Focal Duplex Mil-Dot Reticle (67180)

will do everything you want, small, last a lifetime, first focal plane reticle for ranging, lifetime warranty etc...........best price you will find on this.

 

[Pester]

I have looked through a lot of spotters and have decided to save my money to get into the $1k + range. To me that seems to be the best bang for the buck. If you are looking at something in the sub $500 range I would be patient and find a good used one here on the Hide. The certainly come up from time to time and my experience in buying from the folks here has been 100% positive.

I would also look at the for sale section for some of the vendors. Some of them sell used or demo equipment and great prices.

Best of luck

 

[huckjare]

Check out the new Vortex Razor compact. The glass is amazing, nothing compares for the price.

 

[dcnyli]

is it safe to assume that the mil reticles on the vortex&leupold are the same sub-tension distance? I am looking to get a spotting scope and run a leupold&vortex both with milling reticles(tmr & ebr1)

 

[Bangarang]

I had a Vortex Viper 20-60x80 Angled (non HD) and was very unhappy with it. Fortunately I was able to return it and upgrade to the Vortex Viper 20-60x80 Angled with the HD glass. Its a huge improvement over the non-HD!

My only complaint is that the neoprene covers Viper sends out with these spotters are a huge PITA to install. (I seriously doubt if anyone on Vortex's product development staff ever tried to install one?) Besides worrying about ripping it while installing it (they are stupid tight,) once installed you can't use the retractable sunshade at all, and the focusing knobs are harder to access. Also the swiveling range of the pivoting ring mount becomes limited. This case is the one major downside to an otherwise good product.

(I'm currently hunting for an aftermarket cover for my HD version.)

 

[Bigwheels]

I just got a Viper XD 20-60x80 just before hunting season & I liked it. I agree that the cover was s ROYAL PITA! To install & I have to pull it back to extend the sun shade. My only other complaint is the size. I was able to make out the white fiberglass poles marking the road on the mountain over 7 miles away. And also some of the texture of the bark on the pine trees out there too.
What didn't you like about yours?

 

[Bangarang]

It had a lot of CA, especially at the middle to higher zoom ranges. It could be bad enough under some situations that high contrast things looked like blurry double-vision.

When I ordered it, my minimum expectation was to be able to see .223 holes in the black up to 200 yards. It turned out I could barely do it at 100 yards on DCM/CMP SR-1 targets, and not with 100% certainty. IMHO it was only a minimal improvement over my 33+ year old Bushnell Trophy spotter (16x-36x) zoom. Perhaps my expectations were just too high.

BTW Called Vortex customer support with some questions. They were very friendly. Also said they had a video on their website that explains how to install the covers. Made it look a lot easier than it seemed to me. Maybe with some practice and stretching...

 

[Bigwheels]

I think there was something wrong with the one you had. Mine was very clear, & sharp. This weekend I'll be able to set it up next to the new Swaro. I'll see if I can tell enough difference to warrant another $3000.

 

[Bangarang]

I'll be very interested to read about your impressions.

BTW, only because of the size & weight of the Viper 20-60x80 HD, I'm now wishing I'd gone the extra coin for the Razor HD 16-48x65. A decade from now I bet I'm not going to look back and regret the extra price difference.

"Buy Once, Cry Once" - so true...

 

[Bigwheels]

I agree. However I got my Viper for less than $500 on a clearance sale. So for the coin I spent I really can't complain either way.

 

[427Cobra]

I spent 2 days looking thru a Spotter 60, Leuplod MK4, Swarovski, and a Razor while ROing a match, I got me a Vortex Razor, as did some of the other ROs, I also have a Clesteon, for less than 200 bucks it's a good value, but no where near the optical resolution of the Razor, I love watching trace in the Razor.

 

[pizzamanny]

Cobra, were you looking through the HD or regular razor?

 

[Bigwheels]

As promised, I had the chance to get my Vortex Viper XD next to my buddies new modular Swarovski 30-70x 90. I must now say that my Viper is obviously inferior. It has CA to point that neither one of us could get it to focus on clay pigeons @ 750yd or 920yd. There was always a slight halo of orange arount them with the Viper. On the other hand the Swarovski was brighter, & had none of the halo around the pigeons. There was a little mirage on, & off during the day so we were never able to get a perfectly crisp picture with it, but it was much better than the Viper XD. The only drawback I had with the Swarovski was its size. I thought the Viper was a big scope, but the Swarovski was even bigger by a couple inches. Its an awesome scope, but for $4K I don't know if it's worth the price unless you need the ability to switch objective lenses. I'm going to see if I can get a Viper HD to compare with my XD, & see if the CA is significantly better. If it is I'll be trading my XD in for one. Unfortunately the Swarovski is way outside my price range.