Rifle Scopes High end optics on a newcommer geared build?

Wheres-Waldo

Wheres-Waldo

Gunny Sergeant
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Minuteman
Nov 2, 2008
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#1
The rifle in question is an M700 AAC-SD, bone stock and intended to stay that way. I picked one of these up with the intentions of taking to the range to let people who are on the fence about buying into the tactical-bolt action market try out. I will most likely eventualy give it to a family member down the road as a hunting rifle.

My cunundrum is weather or not to go with a 'hardly ever in stock' Bushnell Elite 3200 fixed 10x Mil/Mil...and keep everything entry level? These things are <span style="text-decoration: underline">VERY</span> competatively priced in the Mil/Mil market...The cheapest Ive seen actualy, which will apeal to the crowd who I am building this for. Reports of them tracking well are abundant also.

I could step up a little more to a SWFA SS 3-9 or fixed 10x mil/mil for around 2-2.5x as much $....and I could keep stepping up to NF 2.5-10 mil/mil or USO ST-10 mil/mil. I dont mind spending $1,200 on a nice 10x that will do well in the field out to 1K.

My fear of mounting a $1,000 + optic on something intended to entice the new crowd is that they will think "Oh I could never afford that".

Do you think I would be missing/shying away my intended crowd by mounting up a mil/mil SWFA, USO or NF?
 
#2
Re: High end optics on a newcommer geared build?

I think you'd do a lot more good if you keep the complete rifle package under 1K.

You're not going to be showing this off to people on a 1000 yard range, and I suspect it'll be on a range sub 300 yards. The 3200 (I assume it's the ET1040) sounds like the best idea. That'll put the rifle and scope at <800$ + FFL and mount. You can talk people into an 800$ gun pretty easily after they shoot sub MOA with it.
smile.gif
 
#3
Re: High end optics on a newcommer geared build?

+1 to Kalman's comment

you shouldn't be doing a whole ton of dialing on it if you are keeping the ranges to under 300.

I would even go to a ballistic reticule from burris or nikon and have them just use the holdovers.
 
#4
Re: High end optics on a newcommer geared build?

Bushnell's 3200 10x is a great little scope. I'm selling one now because I've upgraded as my experience and money has allowed. Nothing wrong with spending less, just don't buy junk and it doesn't sound like you're going to do that.

I'd offer you my Bushnell, but it's a mildot/moa.
 
#5
Re: High end optics on a newcommer geared build?

I would go with the 3200. Many people want to shoot the long range game but the price scares most away. I had a 3200 and it was great for the price.
 
#6
Re: High end optics on a newcommer geared build?

Rgr that, it looks like I'll be saving myself some money by switching my <span style="text-decoration: line-through">car insurance</span> optic to <span style="text-decoration: line-through">Geico</span> Bushnell.
 
#8
Re: High end optics on a newcommer geared build?

Agree with steve123, the Weaver is a lot of scope for the $$$ & I'm more than pleased with mine so far...even though it may put the package in a bit higher price range than you were looking to do.
 
#9
Re: High end optics on a newcommer geared build?

Since you are talking a "budget" build, my first go to would be the bushy 10x 3200, after that, it would be the weaver grand slam tactical, it can usually be had for the same price as the SS rear focus, but gives the added benefit of variable power (on sale now)
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=598484
 
#10
Re: High end optics on a newcommer geared build?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Try one of these new Weavers and let us know what you think of it.

I think I would rather have it than any of the others mentioned.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=911627
</div></div>

I'd stay away from the Weavers for a little while. I saw 2 tactical, variable models take a dump two weeks ago.

The Bushnell is a solid little scope.
 
#11
Re: High end optics on a newcommer geared build?

I shouldn't leave it as they took a dump. The first failed scope was installed and zeroed just before the match. Once zeroed, he was showing it off and his buddy noted the reticle had shifted about 30 degrees. FAIL.

The second scope made it most of the match and stopped tracking.
 
#12
Re: High end optics on a newcommer geared build?

I have minimal experience with the bushy but own 2 NF and have shot through friends bushys. Out to 500 at same power I was just as accurate with their bushys as my NF's. So if it tracks, re-zeros and is a bargain buster, go for it. If it doesnt work out you can always upgrade.
 
#13
Re: High end optics on a newcommer geared build?

Goin hot, My weaver failed at TVP while I was zeroing it. 3 rounds from the AR10 and the reticle canted, it was pretty easy to notice. I sent it to weaver and they sent me a NEW one, just got it yesterday. Im still contimplating what to do with it. Im also wondering which rifle did this scope in? prior to it being on my AR it was on my AI 338LM for 23 rounds. At his point I wish I had my 720 bucks back to put towards a Nightforce.
 
#18
Re: High end optics on a newcommer geared build?

If I were a new shooter, I'd be kind of freaked out if I didn't know much about optics and accessories and you told me the scope was twice as much as the rifle and cost $1200. If you showed me a package for under $1k, I'd be much less intimidated. I'd feel like I was going to get good value for my money.
 
#19
Re: High end optics on a newcommer geared build?

Thanks for the income of replies guys.

As far as Weaver, I havent heard anything about them...good or bad...until now, in which their are mixed reviews. Ide be MUCH more comfortable with putting a SWFA SS on there than a Weaver, but, as stated, less $ means more interest in the eyes of someone who doesnt know what they are looking at.

Theres a few Bushnells in the classifieds, but none that are Mil/Mil as of right now...unless you see something I dont...PM me if I missed something.
 
#20
Re: High end optics on a newcommer geared build?

The Weaver GS 3-10X40 mil/mil is $299 and seems to get really good reviews on Midway.

I replaced the Bushy 10X40 that came with my rifle with one (because I wanted mil/mil adjustments for cheap) and so far so good. I only have maybe 50 rounds through it which isn't much so I will update after I pound it some more.
 
#22
Re: High end optics on a newcommer geared build?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wheres-Waldo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The rifle in question is an M700 AAC-SD, bone stock and intended to stay that way. I picked one of these up with the intentions of taking to the range to let people who are on the fence about buying into the tactical-bolt action market try out. I will most likely eventualy give it to a family member down the road as a hunting rifle.

My cunundrum is weather or not to go with a 'hardly ever in stock' Bushnell Elite 3200 fixed 10x Mil/Mil...and keep everything entry level? These things are <span style="text-decoration: underline">VERY</span> competatively priced in the Mil/Mil market...The cheapest Ive seen actualy, which will apeal to the crowd who I am building this for. Reports of them tracking well are abundant also.

I could step up a little more to a SWFA SS 3-9 or fixed 10x mil/mil for around 2-2.5x as much $....and I could keep stepping up to NF 2.5-10 mil/mil or USO ST-10 mil/mil. I dont mind spending $1,200 on a nice 10x that will do well in the field out to 1K.

My fear of mounting a $1,000 + optic on something intended to entice the new crowd is that they will think "Oh I could never afford that".

Do you think I would be missing/shying away my intended crowd by mounting up a mil/mil SWFA, USO or NF?

</div></div>

I have been reading " for the money" about the Vortex PST scopes. I really wonder if you could shoot smaller groups with rifles that have $3000 scopes than with the PSTs? I have a fairly accurate 6mm Norma BR. with a 6-24x50mm PST MOA scope with a Custom Vortex Turret that is "dead nuts accurate".

I DO NOT think I could shoot any better with anymore expensive scope and I do not care how more clearer the glass is. And this is all the way out to 1200 yards. If I can hit gongs at 1200 yards the only hinderance was READING the WIND not the scope.

http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=564977&highlight=

http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=574886&highlight=

40gt
 
#23
Re: High end optics on a newcommer geared build?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 40gt</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wheres-Waldo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The rifle in question is an M700 AAC-SD, bone stock and intended to stay that way. I picked one of these up with the intentions of taking to the range to let people who are on the fence about buying into the tactical-bolt action market try out. I will most likely eventualy give it to a family member down the road as a hunting rifle.

My cunundrum is weather or not to go with a 'hardly ever in stock' Bushnell Elite 3200 fixed 10x Mil/Mil...and keep everything entry level? These things are <span style="text-decoration: underline">VERY</span> competatively priced in the Mil/Mil market...The cheapest Ive seen actualy, which will apeal to the crowd who I am building this for. Reports of them tracking well are abundant also.

I could step up a little more to a SWFA SS 3-9 or fixed 10x mil/mil for around 2-2.5x as much $....and I could keep stepping up to NF 2.5-10 mil/mil or USO ST-10 mil/mil. I dont mind spending $1,200 on a nice 10x that will do well in the field out to 1K.

My fear of mounting a $1,000 + optic on something intended to entice the new crowd is that they will think "Oh I could never afford that".

Do you think I would be missing/shying away my intended crowd by mounting up a mil/mil SWFA, USO or NF?

</div></div>

I have been reading " for the money" about the Vortex PST scopes. I really wonder if you could shoot smaller groups with rifles that have $3000 scopes than with the PSTs? I have a fairly accurate 6mm Norma BR. with a 6-24x50mm PST MOA scope with a Custom Vortex Turret that is "dead nuts accurate".

I DO NOT think I could shoot any better with anymore expensive scope and I do not care how more clearer the glass is. And this is all the way out to 1200 yards. If I can hit gongs at 1200 yards the only hinderance was READING the WIND not the scope.

http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=564977&highlight=

http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=574886&highlight=

40gt </div></div>

40GT, might want to read the forum rules. Posting the exact same post in 4 different threads now is a no-no.
 
#24
Re: High end optics on a newcommer geared build?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kalman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think you'd do a lot more good if you keep the complete rifle package under 1K.

You're not going to be showing this off to people on a 1000 yard range, and I suspect it'll be on a range sub 300 yards. The 3200 (I assume it's the ET1040) sounds like the best idea. That'll put the rifle and scope at <800$ + FFL and mount. You can talk people into an 800$ gun pretty easily after they shoot sub MOA with it.
smile.gif
</div></div>

+1, keep it cheap and user friendly, you definitely don't want to scare everybody away with a $1000+ scope.
 
#25
Re: High end optics on a newcommer geared build?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Goin'Hot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I shouldn't leave it as they took a dump. The first failed scope was installed and zeroed just before the match. Once zeroed, he was showing it off and his buddy noted the reticle had shifted about 30 degrees. FAIL.

The second scope made it most of the match and stopped tracking. </div></div>

What a disaster! Sorry to hear that guys. It'll be interesting to see if others are going down like yours did.I guess I won't mention them anymore till Weaver gets things sorted out.

I was hoping better and was considering getting one but ...

Was this the one I gave the link to or the older MOA/MIL?
 
#26
Re: High end optics on a newcommer geared build?

Why mil/mil?

I started with a SS 10x rear focus and it is a solid scope for $300. It got me through a PR1 class and I had no problems making 1st round hits on steel at 800.
 
#28
Re: High end optics on a newcommer geared build?

Mil/Mil....MOA/MOA...as long as the guy is matched inside and out. Ive never done any ranging w/ MOA, and am pretty embarassed to say I dont have the formula anywhere that would let me be able to....

Im more at home with a Mil. reticle....and I want to seem like Im at home when the kiddies start asking..."Oh! How do you like this?!?"
 
#29
Re: High end optics on a newcommer geared build?

Putting a cheap bang for the buck type of scope like the 300$ super sniper is a decent idea if it's going to be a loaner/try this out/sure I don't mind if your 9 year old snot machine uses my rifle type of rifle. They work well, don't cost a lot and are pretty much impossible to break (unless you really try to).

Personally, I would get the super sniper HD (or if you're military see about a discounted Mark 4).

If the Vortex PST's were readily available I'd say get that but as far as I know they are still a waiting list.
 
#30
Re: High end optics on a newcommer geared build?

There are 2.5-10x44 Viper PSTs in stock at a couple places, I believe.

For guys like us, we know what makes scopes good and bad, and we know the difference between a Bushnell 3200 and a NightForce NXS. Most people who are new or less than interested don't know the difference. At work, I always get the "You paid HOW MUCH for that?!?" rection. Even when I got my $599 2.5-10x44 Viper PST. They couldn't believe I'd spend $600 on a scope. I told them what a Zeiss Hensoldt costs, and I swear one of my coworkers almost had a heart attack. These are all cops. Most of them don't know anything more than crosshairs and deer rifles.
My point is, I don't think these new shooters would scrutinizing the quality of the optics, but rather, looking at the package as a whole and saying "That's not so bad. I could do that." Or something to that effect.

I think that the best way to introduce people to an expensive or challenging sport like shooting could be a lot like the way you introduce a puppy to the water- you let them walk on the shore and wade in slowly. As they progress along and learn, then they will get more comfortable and eventually you will have yourself an excellent water dog that you can never get out of the water and will retrieve downed mallards under a hail of gunfire. However, if you just walk to the end of the dock and toss the pup in, he's gonna freak out and want nothing to do with it.

Just a thought.
 
#31
Re: High end optics on a newcommer geared build?

I've had bad luck with the elite 3200's - like the elevation turret keeps turning past the number of clicks it's supposed to... discouraging when it was mounted and I discovered that one. True the price is attractive, but in the end you always get what you pay for... for an entry level 1" tube, try a LEUPOLD MARK AR - I wasn't disappointed with that one - sturdy and repeatable.
 
#32
Re: High end optics on a newcommer geared build?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NUTT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why mil/mil?</div></div>

One reason would be to keep the reticle the same as the knobs so you don't have to convert
 
#33
Re: High end optics on a newcommer geared build?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Goin'Hot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I shouldn't leave it as they took a dump. The first failed scope was installed and zeroed just before the match. Once zeroed, he was showing it off and his buddy noted the reticle had shifted about 30 degrees. FAIL.

The second scope made it most of the match and stopped tracking. </div></div>

Were you using the 4-20 mil/moa or the new 3-15 mil/mil???
 
#34
Re: High end optics on a newcommer geared build?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Goin'Hot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I shouldn't leave it as they took a dump. The first failed scope was installed and zeroed just before the match. Once zeroed, he was showing it off and his buddy noted the reticle had shifted about 30 degrees. FAIL.

The second scope made it most of the match and stopped tracking. </div></div>

Were you using the 4-20 mil/moa or the new 3-15 mil/mil??? </div></div>

Neither. The 2 different shooters were using the 4-20 models.
 
#35
Re: High end optics on a newcommer geared build?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Goin'Hot</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Goin'Hot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I shouldn't leave it as they took a dump. The first failed scope was installed and zeroed just before the match. Once zeroed, he was showing it off and his buddy noted the reticle had shifted about 30 degrees. FAIL.

The second scope made it most of the match and stopped tracking. </div></div>

Were you using the 4-20 mil/moa or the new 3-15 mil/mil??? </div></div>

Neither. The 2 different shooters were using the 4-20 models. </div></div>

Thanks for clarifying for us.
 
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