Homemade Induction Annealer

#702
I also use the meishile 36v 16.7a power supply and it works great. I want to say that my 1st one i purchased was a different make and lower power rating. It was bad right out the gate and it took me a little while to figure that out!]
 
#707
tikka1960 said:
Thanks for that, I am thinking of going with 1/8 copper pipe for the coil, but unsure of the die, and no of turns, any help would be appreciated thanks again Going to use 14 gauge wire.
Click to expand...
My experience with 1/8 was that if you intend to water cool, it restricts flow severely. 3/16" can be had at O'Reilly Auto and bends for a ~.75" ID without too much trouble with much better water flow. 1/4" is too large to wind tight enough.
 
#710
Has anyone been successful in getting a larger screen to work? I was looking into this when I first built the annealer I guess over a year ago and didn't have much success. I know in prior posts the author mentioned that he would have to update the libraries and that would take more memory etc, but here is a video of a guy running a larger screen.

Larger Screen

Unfortunately he doesn't show what he did and doesnt answer questions, not sure if he even speaks english. I have this screen that works really well if you just plug the screen into the arduino board with the code, once you plug the arduino into the nzhs board the screen doesn't work anymore. I really would like to know how that guy got the screen to work.

There are a couple of changes you have to make to your screen to make it an I2C board but its pretty simple. I saw a video on that here which is more thorough.
Board Conversion
 
#711
sledgedothammer said:
Has anyone been successful in getting a larger screen to work? I was looking into this when I first built the annealer I guess over a year ago and didn't have much success. I know in prior posts the author mentioned that he would have to update the libraries and that would take more memory etc, but here is a video of a guy running a larger screen.

Larger Screen

Unfortunately he doesn't show what he did and doesnt answer questions, not sure if he even speaks english. I have this screen that works really well if you just plug the screen into the arduino board with the code, once you plug the arduino into the nzhs board the screen doesn't work anymore. I really would like to know how that guy got the screen to work.

There are a couple of changes you have to make to your screen to make it an I2C board but its pretty simple. I saw a video on that here which is more thorough.
Board Conversion
Click to expand...
Like you mentioned going to an I2C display and the associated library to go with the display and you will be good to go. I'll have to run back through the thread, is there a GitHub repository where the source code is?

The code instances that refer to the LCD will have to be modified for the new library.

There will be lines like " lcd.print(......); " the new library may use a different syntax like " lcd->print(......): "

Other things like setting the cursor, line wrap, LCD refresh and clear.... Bunch of little stuff but typically straight forward.
 
#712
missed said:
Like you mentioned going to an I2C display and the associated library to go with the display and you will be good to go. I'll have to run back through the thread, is there a GitHub repository where the source code is?

The code instances that refer to the LCD will have to be modified for the new library.

There will be lines like " lcd.print(......); " the new library may use a different syntax like " lcd->print(......): "

Other things like setting the cursor, line wrap, LCD refresh and clear.... Bunch of little stuff but typically straight forward.
Click to expand...
Are you referring to the code for the nzhs board?
Code

Actually if you unplug the arduino from the board and you change the following line from

this -> Adafruit_SSD1306 display(SCREEN_WIDTH, SCREEN_HEIGHT, &Wire, -1, 100000, 100000);

to this -> Adafruit_SSD1306 display(SCREEN_WIDTH, SCREEN_HEIGHT, &Wire, -1, 400000, 100000);

The screen will work without issues. The problem that I have encountered is once the screen is plugged into the nzhs board it just shows noise, I haven't been able to figure that one out.

The board is already I2C when modified and you have to add 3.3v to the RES pin and you are good to go. This all works out of the nzhs board, plug the arduino back in and no more screen.

Have you been able to get a larger screen working?
 
#713
What pull up resistors are on the new display you are using? All the I2C devices will have resistors from the logic level VCC to SDA and SCL. The total resistance of the pull ups should be between 2k-10k ohms. Depending on what I2C backpack it might have pull ups built in, and it may have ones that are accessible. I don't use the Arduino boards very much any more and can't remember if it upsets the I2C bus if the pull up is on the display power or logic level VCC. There is typically a shift between the two and one will work and the other one won't.
 
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#714
The 1.5" screen do not require any changes. The 2.5" screen requires you to move a resistor that enables I2C, then you make two dead shorts on another part of the board. Aside from that I cant really tell you anything more about the screen.
 
#715
Guys, I need help with my attempt to do this, I have a 24v 600w power supply to a ZVS 12-48v 1000w (6X0.33uh) but I can't get the brass to get hot?? I get a screwdriver glowing red hot in 5 sec but nearly heat up a 223 case in 30sec. Not Sur what to do? Here are the parts I have together, note that there is a timer switch to control the time.

ZVS Unit
Power supply
Timer switch
 
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#717
MediumSpeed said:
I suspect your coil needs to be a lot smaller. Are you using the one that came with the ZVS? Most here have turned a tighter coil with an inner diameter of ~ .75 - 1.0 inch
Click to expand...
I did reduce my coil size to 1.33 inch with 3/16 tubing I started with 2 layer for 8 1/2 turns total and it was the same, so I try to reduce to 6 turns 1 layer and it was the same result. I am now at 5 turns and not sure what else to try. I will go get some more tubing and reduce the inner diameter to what you suggest. I will try 1/4 inch tubing as it is more available. How many turns would you suggest.
thank you
 
#721
TSloper said:
Over the last couple of days I put together an induction annealer setup. All components minus the coil were sourced from Amazon. I turned the coil myself from solid copper wire to ensure proper inductance and distance to the case. The power supply is 24V/15A. Switching frequency of the induction coil is ~120 kHz. The coil supplied with the ZVS unit was far too large in diameter and would not sufficiently heat the brass with the 24V/15A supply. Proper coil sizing is key. I have not found a need for any additional cooling. The PCB and components are barely getting warm.

The 1/8" rod under the coil is the release mechanism to allow the case to drop. I am contemplating adding a push/pull solenoid to automate the drop at the end of the cycle but at my processing rate it isn't necessary.

Using 750F Tempilaq as an indicator my run time for a .223 case is 3.4 seconds. A tenth of a second can make a significant difference. The picture showing both cases is only a delta of 0.2 seconds. A run time of just 7.5 seconds will have the brass glowing red hot as seen in the pic. That is far too hot for annealing but I provided the pic to illustrate that it doesn't take long to over anneal. Average power consumption during a cycle with the current setup is ~260W. With a different power supply and additional cooling the system can run to 1000W.

This is a sub $100 build and the results are consistent and repeatable.

Tim
Click to expand...
Fantastic directions thanks . How the hell do you program the timer ?
 
#722
TSloper said:
Over the last couple of days I put together an induction annealer setup. All components minus the coil were sourced from Amazon. I turned the coil myself from solid copper wire to ensure proper inductance and distance to the case. The power supply is 24V/15A. Switching frequency of the induction coil is ~120 kHz. The coil supplied with the ZVS unit was far too large in diameter and would not sufficiently heat the brass with the 24V/15A supply. Proper coil sizing is key. I have not found a need for any additional cooling. The PCB and components are barely getting warm.

The 1/8" rod under the coil is the release mechanism to allow the case to drop. I am contemplating adding a push/pull solenoid to automate the drop at the end of the cycle but at my processing rate it isn't necessary.

Using 750F Tempilaq as an indicator my run time for a .223 case is 3.4 seconds. A tenth of a second can make a significant difference. The picture showing both cases is only a delta of 0.2 seconds. A run time of just 7.5 seconds will have the brass glowing red hot as seen in the pic. That is far too hot for annealing but I provided the pic to illustrate that it doesn't take long to over anneal. Average power consumption during a cycle with the current setup is ~260W. With a different power supply and additional cooling the system can run to 1000W.

This is a sub $100 build and the results are consistent and repeatable.

Tim
Click to expand...
Fantastic write up and I built a similar setup however I cannot seem to beat the casing anywhere near as hot as I want it. I made a coil as you stated with ten turns and diameter about 7/8” any ideas why I’m not getting the heat ?
 
#723
Fern2400 said:
Guys, I need help with my attempt to do this, I have a 24v 600w power supply to a ZVS 12-48v 1000w (6X0.33uh) but I can't get the brass to get hot?? I get a screwdriver glowing red hot in 5 sec but nearly heat up a 223 case in 30sec. Not Sur what to do? Here are the parts I have together, note that there is a timer switch to control the time.

ZVS Unit
Power supply
Timer switch
Click to expand...
I’m having the same issue , I can get a casing to to about 500 degrees after 30 seconds but no where close to 750
 

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#727
Ericwh3006 said:
My setup:
1000w zvs board with six .33microf caps
12v power supply
SSR
36v 16.6 a power supply set to 35v
2 layer coil, 4.25 turns per layer, 3/4" ID on the inner layer, using the common 1/4" tubing
coolant with fan and radiator

For a faint glow in dark room:
3.7s for [Hornady] 6.5 creedmoor
4s for [Hornady] 6GT
Click to expand...
Timer crapped out after ~4k cases.

Also:
~5.5s for starline 6.5 creedmoor
7.5s for Lapua 6 creedmoor :oops: significantly longer than all other cases I've done
 
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#728
I have been annealing LC556 brass, Hornady and Alpha 6GT, Hornady 6.5CM, Hornady, ADG and Lapua 300PRC and mixed lots of 30-30 brass. Ive also ran some of my freinds brass through my setup. It has lasted longer than I thought it would. I do not have my annealing times on hand right now but my annealing times varied from 4 seconds to 6.2 seconds I believe.
Ive ran approximately 10K pieces of brass through my annealing setup. At 8k it started to take more time to anneal by about 1.5 seconds and then recently it was up to 3 seconds longer than original annealing time. I purchased an new ZVS board and a timer relay a few months ago thinking they were the components that would fail first, I was wrong. My water pump finally died on me while running through 120 pieces of 300PRC lapua brass that I fire formed to 30SM. It surprised me that the pump failed not the ZVS board. I have now ordered a new water pump and a new 36V 16amp 600W power supply. I am pretty much replacing everthing with the exact components I purcahsed originally. Iwill not be replacing the housing, wiring, tubing, heat exchanger, voltage regulators and the coil. Hopefully I can get another 10K pieces of brass annealed through it with the new parts.
 
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#729
My setup:
Cheap 24v 20a power supply, turned up to 27.5
1000 w zvs
Clicker relay
Water cooled

Going through 40 peices of 6.5cm starline it runs up to 14.5 amps on 90 percent of them. The rest hit 15+ amps and get a solid cookin. Timer is set for 5.1 seconds.

Anybody have any suggestions on what to check on the irregular amp draw?



This power supply handles these cases fine, it bogs down at the end of a 338lm case.

Edit: heat sinks on the zvs were barely over ambient. I plan on adding a fan to keep them more consistent.
 
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#730
I haven't read this entire thread, so I'll just ask. Are you guys heating to a certain temp, and if so, what are you using as an indicator (sight or Tempilaq)? I read AMP's study on this issue and it appears you want to hit right about 1000 degrees Fahrenheit? I've always operated under the 750 temp, but when "flash" annealing, that doesn't seem to be enough.

Any thoughts? Thanks all.
 
#731
JBarton said:
I have been annealing LC556 brass, Hornady and Alpha 6GT, Hornady 6.5CM, Hornady, ADG and Lapua 300PRC and mixed lots of 30-30 brass. Ive also ran some of my freinds brass through my setup. It has lasted longer than I thought it would. I do not have my annealing times on hand right now but my annealing times varied from 4 seconds to 6.2 seconds I believe.
Ive ran approximately 10K pieces of brass through my annealing setup. At 8k it started to take more time to anneal by about 1.5 seconds and then recently it was up to 3 seconds longer than original annealing time. I purchased an new ZVS board and a timer relay a few months ago thinking they were the components that would fail first, I was wrong. My water pump finally died on me while running through 120 pieces of 300PRC lapua brass that I fire formed to 30SM. It surprised me that the pump failed not the ZVS board. I have now ordered a new water pump and a new 36V 16amp 600W power supply. I am pretty much replacing everthing with the exact components I purcahsed originally. Iwill not be replacing the housing, wiring, tubing, heat exchanger, voltage regulators and the coil. Hopefully I can get another 10K pieces of brass annealed through it with the new parts.
Click to expand...

How many per hour can you anneal, I'm looking to add water cooling hoping to speed up my hourly numbers.
 
#732
FALex said:
I haven't read this entire thread, so I'll just ask. Are you guys heating to a certain temp, and if so, what are you using as an indicator (sight or Tempilaq)? I read AMP's study on this issue and it appears you want to hit right about 1000 degrees Fahrenheit? I've always operated under the 750 temp, but when "flash" annealing, that doesn't seem to be enough.

Any thoughts? Thanks all.
Click to expand...
You can use tempilaq or the dark room glow method. Maybe not mentioned in this thread but some people are able to add optical sensors and read the temp off the case.
 
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#733
FALex, I have been using the method I documented on another forum for a couple of years now, and it seems to work well. See:


I use the flame sensor as a primary trigger to drop an annealed case, but I still use the timer as a back up by setting it about a half-second longer than the sensor triggers at...'just in case'.

Since the flame sensor is for sensing flame (duh) it needs to set at a relatively high sensitivity (to get a lower temperature) to trigger at approximately 1000F. I believe I discussed this in the thread of discussion that starts in the above post.
 
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#734
I'll be starting my project soon. Planning to mount the coil onto a tool head for a Dillon XL650. Photo is not mine, but of course from YouTube. Looks like a hair pulling project, you all have been a lot of help. This was a very good read, and no i havnet even tried to read all 15 pages of this amazing post. I'm sure I'll need some help, wish me luck.
 

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#735
Draftpick said:
How many per hour can you anneal, I'm looking to add water cooling hoping to speed up my hourly numbers.
Click to expand...
I don't really time how long the process takes. I've annealed a couple hundred cases in short order. Figure approximately 7-8 seconds per round on average.
I have not had any issues with it overheating except when my water pump failed. I noticed the coil color change and shut it off. That was the original water pump with about 3 years of service and many thousands of cases annealed
When it failed a swapped the zvs board and power source just to play it safe.
 
#736
Draftpick said:
You can use tempilaq or the dark room glow method. Maybe not mentioned in this thread but some people are able to add optical sensors and read the temp off the case.
Click to expand...
Copy that. If using Tempilaq, do you know if I should be using the 1000 degree or the 750?
 
#737
Well, my 48v power supply just died. It has run well until this failure. I doubt I have 1000 rounds on it. Below are links to my power supply and ZVS.

My coil is 1/8 tubing with 6 coils at 7/8 ID. It is fiberglass wrapped and water cooled. At the time I was running 223 brass at 4.2 seconds and the amp meter would ramp up to about 13.25 amps in that time. My "power" reading is about 625-650. The power supply was set on 48v the best I remember. A lesser setting would cause it to shut off (I think).

Before I replace the ps with the same ps and have the same issue again, I'm asking for opinions. Did I have a faulty ps and it simply failed? Do my components and numbers seem to be in line?

ZVS: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01C70G7Y8?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

Power supply: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08BBVSK81?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

Edited 6/11. Would a different power supply serve me better given my existing build?
 
Last edited:
#738
Halffull said:
Well, my 48v power supply just died. It has run well until this failure. I doubt I have 1000 rounds on it. Below are links to my power supply and ZVS.

My coil is 1/8 tubing with 6 coils at 7/8 ID. It is fiberglass wrapped and water cooled. At the time I was running 223 brass at 4.2 seconds and the amp meter would ramp up to about 13.25 amps in that time. My "power" reading is about 625-650. The power supply was set on 48v the best I remember. A lesser setting would cause it to shut off (I think).

Before I replace the ps with the same ps and have the same issue again, I'm asking for opinions. Did I have a faulty ps and it simply failed? Do my components and numbers seem to be in line?

ZVS: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01C70G7Y8?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

Power supply: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08BBVSK81?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

Edited 6/11. Would a different power supply serve me better given my existing build?
Click to expand...
I would think you would be better served with more amperage/wattage like:

 
#739
hdmunger said:
I would think you would be better served with more amperage/wattage like:

Click to expand...
Will the 1200w power supply be too much for my 1000w ZVS? Would I need to reduce the voltage on the PS?

This just occurred to me. With my current setup, before it died the amperage would increase or steadily climb on the display. For example, it might start at 12 then 13 then 13.25 then 13.4. These numbers aren't exact, but you get the picture. Is this supposed to happen, or should it hold a steady value for the duration of one case?
 
Last edited:
#740
Halffull said:
Will the 1200w power supply be too much for my 1000w ZVS? Would I need to reduce the voltage on the PS?

This just occurred to me. With my current setup, before it died the amperage would increase or steadily climb on the display. For example, it might start at 12 then 13 then 13.25 then 13.4. These numbers aren't exact, but you get the picture. Is this supposed to happen, or should it hold a steady value for the duration of one case?
Click to expand...
No, it only means that your power 1200 watt power supply is rated at a peak continious out put of 1200 watts.
 
#741
Halffull said:
Will the 1200w power supply be too much for my 1000w ZVS? Would I need to reduce the voltage on the PS?

This just occurred to me. With my current setup, before it died the amperage would increase or steadily climb on the display. For example, it might start at 12 then 13 then 13.25 then 13.4. These numbers aren't exact, but you get the picture. Is this supposed to happen, or should it hold a steady value for the duration of one case?
Click to expand...
Like Stugots said, 1200W is the capability of the power supply, the ZVS board can only take what it can take. In the case of your 800W supply, the ZVS board was probably trying to take more than the PS could continuously output.

With regards to the amperage, it might be just changing properties of the brass as its heated, but I think the more likely reason is that we're not using lab grade amp meters, and the ones were using are probably just lagging behind the actual draw and/or averaging recent readings.
 
#743
I installed the new 1200w PS and I am back up and running. Amp meter readings seem to be the same. I did notice that the ZVS is getting warm, in fact downright hot is certain places. Most likely it was this way before, but I noted it now. I ran about 50 223 cases at 4.2 seconds on (13 amp draw) and 4.0 seconds off. The black "six pack" looking things (maybe capacitors) on the ZVS were almost too hot to touch. But the part that was the hottest was the posts and clamps (terminals) that hold the copper tubing (coil) to the ZVS. This was far too hot to hold. The water-cooled tubing was cool as normal however. I suppose the tubing serves as a heat sink to the terminals, but not fast enough. I believe all connections are tight. Does this sound normal?
 
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#744
Halffull said:
I installed the new 1200w PS and I am back up and running. Amp meter readings seem to be the same. I did notice that the ZVS is getting warm, in fact downright hot is certain places. Most likely it was this way before, but I noted it now. I ran about 50 223 cases at 4.2 seconds on (13 amp draw) and 4.0 seconds off. The black "six pack" looking things (maybe capacitors) on the ZVS were almost too hot to touch. But the part that was the hottest was the posts and clamps (terminals) that hold the copper tubing (coil) to the ZVS. This was far too hot to hold. The water-cooled tubing was cool as normal however. I suppose the tubing serves as a heat sink to the terminals, but not fast enough. I believe all connections are tight. Does this sound normal?
Click to expand...
Im no expert, but It is normal to some extent. There are plenty of zvs that come with fans factory installed.
 
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#745
Halffull said:
I installed the new 1200w PS and I am back up and running. Amp meter readings seem to be the same. I did notice that the ZVS is getting warm, in fact downright hot is certain places. Most likely it was this way before, but I noted it now. I ran about 50 223 cases at 4.2 seconds on (13 amp draw) and 4.0 seconds off. The black "six pack" looking things (maybe capacitors) on the ZVS were almost too hot to touch. But the part that was the hottest was the posts and clamps (terminals) that hold the copper tubing (coil) to the ZVS. This was far too hot to hold. The water-cooled tubing was cool as normal however. I suppose the tubing serves as a heat sink to the terminals, but not fast enough. I believe all connections are tight. Does this sound normal?
Click to expand...
My advice...slow it down. Your ZVS board will last longer. If you need to keep the pace up, a large fan (100mm or 140mm) blowing across the board may help.

Personally, I have an automatic case feeder, and I keep the delay between cases long enough to keep the board temp at 105-120F and just let it run. I can hear the case feeder cycle and the drop mechanism actuating if I'm anywhere near the annealer so I can monitor it that way for anything that sounds out of the ordinary.
 
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#746
Halffull said:
I installed the new 1200w PS and I am back up and running. Amp meter readings seem to be the same. I did notice that the ZVS is getting warm, in fact downright hot is certain places. Most likely it was this way before, but I noted it now. I ran about 50 223 cases at 4.2 seconds on (13 amp draw) and 4.0 seconds off. The black "six pack" looking things (maybe capacitors) on the ZVS were almost too hot to touch. But the part that was the hottest was the posts and clamps (terminals) that hold the copper tubing (coil) to the ZVS. This was far too hot to hold. The water-cooled tubing was cool as normal however. I suppose the tubing serves as a heat sink to the terminals, but not fast enough. I believe all connections are tight. Does this sound normal?
Click to expand...
Here is my experience with the supplied coil mounting option: It Sucks Ass. It's cheap and easy but it falls short with repeated use.

The issue is that you are clamping a tube down on the center post via the two outer posts and top strap. This is only supported by the PCB. Center post is pushed down while the outer 2 are pulled up. After use and heat cycles, the screws do indeed loosen, the board warps, Resistance goes up, and a lot of extra heat is generated while you Begin burning the board.

My solution was 1" * .25" flat copper stock to make a suitable mount, and it works incredibly well. ALL of my heat issues disappeared after this.
 

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#747
Bradv86 said:
Here is my experience with the supplied coil mounting option: It Sucks Ass. It's cheap and easy but it falls short with repeated use.

The issue is that you are clamping a tube down on the center post via the two outer posts and top strap. This is only supported by the PCB. Center post is pushed down while the outer 2 are pulled up. After use and heat cycles, the screws do indeed loosen, the board warps, Resistance goes up, and a lot of extra heat is generated while you Begin burning the board.

My solution was 1" * .25" flat copper stock to make a suitable mount, and it works incredibly well. ALL of my heat issues disappeared after this.
Click to expand...
I agree with this 100% (although I used aluminum blocks as stand offs and mounted them on the underside of my ZVS board...just worked better with the way I had components arranged)
 
#748
hdmunger said:
I agree with this 100% (although I used aluminum blocks as stand offs and mounted them on the underside of my ZVS board...just worked better with the way I had components arranged)
Click to expand...
Aluminum would be 1000% easier to work with LOL. The back side of the board does also allow you to quite easily have a shorter standoff, as well as easier to position a fan over the component side of the ZVS.
 
#749
Bradv86 said:
Here is my experience with the supplied coil mounting option: It Sucks Ass. It's cheap and easy but it falls short with repeated use.

The issue is that you are clamping a tube down on the center post via the two outer posts and top strap. This is only supported by the PCB. Center post is pushed down while the outer 2 are pulled up. After use and heat cycles, the screws do indeed loosen, the board warps, Resistance goes up, and a lot of extra heat is generated while you Begin burning the board.

My solution was 1" * .25" flat copper stock to make a suitable mount, and it works incredibly well. ALL of my heat issues disappeared after this.
Click to expand...
I sure like the looks of this. My 1" copper flat bar has already shipped. I would ask though; did you thread the holes in the long block and use short screws to secure everything or did you bore a hole completely through both pieces and use longer bolts with nuts that pass through entire length?
 
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