Hornady brass explosion

[Pilotscrappy]

So I had a first @ the range today. I was shooting my 6.5 creed mpa rifle with my goto handloaded rounds. 40.4 gr of h4350 under a 140eld. Pretty standard load. I just loaded the rounds the previous night. This was the 5th loading on the brass.

I had shot about 20 rounds when this happend. Shot 21 kicked way harder than normal and the bolt was very sticky and the case was a bitch to extract.

Case had a ring around the web that could be felt with fingernail.
This was concerning and I chalked it up to thinking it was a fluke deal as I've never had it happen. The primer didn't show any signs of high pressure either.

I proceeded to fire another 6 or 7 rounds and it happened again. Except this time I couldn't get the case to extract and had to get salty with the bolt to finally get it to extract (surprised my extractor didn't break)

This case had complete failure and exploded in the chamber. It recoiled twice has hard as normal. I knew the second I fired the shot something went wrong.

My question is this , what happened? The brass was only on it's 5th firing and hadn't really showed any signs of needing to be culled yet.

It's a pretty mild load I'm shooting so what caused the brass failure and massive pressure spike?
Again ,on the brass that failed the primer remained intact and looked normal.

With this happening could it have damaged my rifle in any way? I immediately stopped shooting when this happened,and am Leary of shooting my remaining 20 rounds I have loaded.

 

[Pilotscrappy]

Also my barrel has 780 rounds on it. I just had cleaned barrel also about 50 rounds ago.

 

[Supersubes]

That’s a called a case head separation. 99% of the time its caused by oversizing.

 

[Supersubes]

And has absolutely zero to do with pressure.

 

[supercorndogs]

https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/bump-vs-full-length-sizing.6252677/

You are pushing your shoulders back too far.

 

[Pilotscrappy]

That’s a called a case head separation. 99% of the time its caused by oversizing.

That actually makes perfect sense. Few days ago I tore down all my dies and cleaned them and when I was sizing I was bumping shoulders back 3-4 thou, and I usually bump 2 thou.

So next question...do I need to pull bullets and toss the brass ?

 

[Juggerxxx]

Like others have said; you might be pushing your should back to far when resizing.
Here is my Hornady 6.5CM brass after 12 firings. Classic case head separation.

 

[supercorndogs]

If you are actually bumping only 3-4 thousandths that shouldn't happen in 5 loading unless something else is going on, like the chamber is way too big.

Yes the brass is trash, and probably worth pulling down the ammo rather than shooting it.

 

[winniedonkey]

Had a similar situation as you. Above is what I learned the hard way and pulled 60. I kept the cases as a reminder.

 

[Supersubes]

That actually makes perfect sense. Few days ago I tore down all my dies and cleaned them and when I was sizing I was bumping shoulders back 3-4 thou, and I usually bump 2 thou.

So next question...do I need to pull bullets and toss the brass ?

Separations usually aren’t caused by one cycle of oversizing, but several cycles. 3-4 thou really won’t do it. I’d evaluate your measuring technique/equipment. Something is likely off. You may also take some diameter measurements of sized and fired brass for comparison.


Look at that narrow strip of case just below where the separation occurred. That tiny ring of metal was continuing to seal the chamber, and the only thing that saved you from getting a huge volume of gas/shrapnel in the face. Yes, trash the brass.

 

[918v]

If you are actually bumping only 3-4 thousandths that shouldn't happen in 5 loading unless something else is going on, like the chamber is way too big.

Yes the brass is trash, and probably worth pulling down the ammo rather than shooting it.

I suspect his numbers are off.

 

[Kadams1563]

Common denominator in these post... Hornady brass. Should chunk it out anyway.

 

[918v]

What’s wrong with Hornady brass?

 

[Yellowfever440]

This will probably high jack this thread, so sorry for that but yet it may help you as well.

I buy loaded hornady factory rounds and fire them to get brass, since everyone on here says its pointless to work any loads off of new/never fired brass. So to me instead of wasting time loading rounds to plink with i might as well just buy loaded rounds and use them then load them. Any ways I do this for fun not competition and i find that since i dont have all the fancy tools for annealing and concentricity and all that jazz it makes way more since to just use hornady brass or atleast a name brand brass factory rounds then save the brass to reload with.

Now is it really worth it to pay for virgin lapua brass for me, i dont feel that it is and i dont feel i need an annealer for my 1000 rounds that i may shoot in a year. I would think you couldnt even pencil it out to sell me on buying the tools to extent the life of my brass to make it worth buying lapua brass for 1000 rounds of basically plinking a year. (i probably shoot more then that a year it usually just doesnt feel like i do, i wanna shoot more but time is short when you need it most)

 

[Pilotscrappy]

I suspect his numbers are off.

Granted I've only been reloading a little over a year, but I'm not sure how I can be getting bad numbers? I use a headspace comparator gauge and just measure a fired piece @1.531 and when I size I usually bring it down to 1.529. That would be a 2 thou shoulder bump correct?
I've done the same process for every batch I've loaded and yes this last go around I sized to about 3-4 thou bump, but should that really cause this failure?

 

[Yellowfever440]

I was informed once, that after you feel your rifle is broke in to fire a brand new piece of brass with your best load and measure the crap out of that piece of brass and keep it separate forever and you can always go back to that piece and measure all the way down the walls and the web and the neck. Maybe you do have a loose chamber and everything is expanding out a lot.

 

[Jack's Dad]

I've had the same issue with Hornady brass around 6 or 7 times fired. It just isn't the same quality as other brass.

 

[GNCC407]

What barrel and action is on your MPA? Mine with the Curtis Axiom and MPA/Spencer barrel my fire formed brass measures 1.537 so I bump back to 1.535.

 

[GNCC407]

I mainly use Alpha brass, but have had no problems using 5x fired Hornady brass.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

How did you verify your chamber?

My chamber is 1.5570 and I usually bump to 1.5560

 

[GNCC407]

Removed my ejector plunger and start with fl resize no bump and keep bumping .001 until I had little drag on bolt while chambering the sized brass. I use the Wheeler method,

 

[Pilotscrappy]

What barrel and action is on your MPA? Mine with the Curtis Axiom and MPA/Spencer barrel my fire formed brass measures 1.537 so I bump back to 1.535.

Mine is the same axiom/Spencer barrel.

Weird our chambers are so far off. My barrel just says "match grade" on the side.

 

[Pilotscrappy]

How did you verify your chamber?

My chamber is 1.5570 and I usually bump to 1.5560

Just by measuring a fired piece of brass. Is there a better way?

 

[Supersubes]

Mine is the same axiom/Spencer barrel.

Weird our chambers are so far off. My barrel just says "match grade" on the side.

There are a few reasons it could be that way. Maybe his chamber is a little longer than yours, or maybe his comparator is slightly smaller diameter than yours, or both of those things.

When I use a .4 hornady comparator, my creedmoor Go gauge measures 1.531 for reference.

 

[GNCC407]

Im using the D400 comparator insert.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

Just by measuring a fired piece of brass. Is there a better way?

Yes, fired brass can be inconsistent.

There is a video but basically on my rem700 removing the firing pin and ejector.

Size several pieces of brass.
1.5545
1.5550
1.5555
1.5560
1.5565
1.5570
1.5575
1.5580
1.5585

The chamber each one and note which allow the bolt handle to fall easily and which start to have resistance.

That is the point your bolt is pushing brass into the chamber and your actual headspace.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

Removed my ejector plunger and start with fl resize no bump and keep bumping .001 until I had little drag on bolt while chambering the sized brass. I use the Wheeler method,

Just looked back, This.

Also measure a piece of factory ammo and compare.

 

[918v]

Granted I've only been reloading a little over a year, but I'm not sure how I can be getting bad numbers? I use a headspace comparator gauge and just measure a fired piece @1.531 and when I size I usually bring it down to 1.529. That would be a 2 thou shoulder bump correct?
I've done the same process for every batch I've loaded and yes this last go around I sized to about 3-4 thou bump, but should that really cause this failure? View attachment 7185245

Do you spin the case in the comparator to make sure it settles down or do you just stick it in and take a reading?

 

[Niles Coyote]

It's also good to kick the primers out before measuring.

 

[Pilotscrappy]

Do you spin the case in the comparator to make sure it settles down or do you just stick it in and take a reading?

Yes I spin it around to get the correct measurement. I also deprime first before my measurements. The pic I took above was just demonstrating how I measure.

 

[Pilotscrappy]

I'm probably being paranoid now, but this was virgin brass that I loaded and fired once last week. If you zoom in on the pic you can clearly see a ring around the top of the case web. It appears just visual as I can't feel any sort of groove or cut.

Does this mean that my chamber might be out of spec? I didn't size this brass at all before I shot it. ( i ran a mandrel down the necks to make sure they were true)

 

[Huskydriver]

If I had to guess it was possibly your first firing that crippled the brass.

Was this brass unloaded when you bought it or did you buy loaded ammo then reload it?

Did you measure the brass before 1st firing, after the 1st firing, and then same thing for the second and 3rd firings?

If you have a long chamber and that brass had to stretch 6-10 thou on the first firing and still wasnt at full stretch yet due to spring back and you bumped it back before the second firing, that brass could have been compromised right there.

 

[Huskydriver]

View attachment 7185284
I'm probably being paranoid now, but this was virgin brass that I loaded and fired once last week. If you zoom in on the pic you can clearly see a ring around the top of the case web. It appears just visual as I can't feel any sort of groove or cut.

Does this mean that my chamber might be out of spec? I didn't size this brass at all before I shot it. ( i ran a mandrel down the necks to make sure they were true)

When in doubt, cut a case in half until you get good at feeling the web stretching with a paperclip. Do you store your ammo primer side up after firing in an ammo box?

 

[Pilotscrappy]

It was virgin brass that I bought and loaded and fired for the first time in the brass' life,
I did not however take a measurement of it in it's virgin state before firing it.

And yes once it's fired I store it primer side up in my ammo box like the pic I posted above until I decap and start brass prep.

And yes I do measure the brass after every firing when I'm getting ready to resize.
It's pretty much always spot on at 1.531 " when I measure before I size.

I usually bump it back to 1.529

 

[Muley Buck]

In my experience, hornady brass is inferior and extremely inconsistent. Way to frustrating to reload these cases, especially when there are far better options out there.

 

[black5.3]

If you store your ammo primer side up in the ammo box the rounds can swirl around in its hole causing a ring around the case from where it runs the plastic or other material as it spins. All my ammo boxes are not a perfect fit for the rounds i store in them so i see it fairly often. It leaves a little ring around my brass about halfway up the case.... not saying thats what you have going on but its worth a check.

 

[PATCO]

This is insipient head separation and is the result of brass stretching due to excessive headspace. You must anneal often to prevent springback or absolutely gage every case. Always check for rings in the brass just above the base where the separation is occurring and keep a close watch on your firerformed brass measurements in case there has been a physical change in your chamber due to wear or pressure. I check every round with a bent paperclip slid along the inside of the fired case. If there is a catch, throw it away. I have seen a lot of talk here about how Hornady brass is inferior, but I have used all types of brass and if it is prepared correctly and examined as all brass should be, it's just as good as any. Just as in any other component in this sport, barrel, action stock, bullet, powder etc., most shooters will tend to have favorites and anything else is inferior even if it is superior. I have found that most reloaders don't anneal and just keep on using brass till it fails and then blame the brass. If you think you can't afford to anneal, go to you tube and watch salt bath annealing vids. It's cheap and accurate as the best computer controlled $K+ annealer on the market. Back to basics. Don't blame the brass.

 

[supercorndogs]

Annealing has absolutely zero to do with CHS. It is not a necessary process for the reloader, and is a fairly recent phenomenon that people have added it to their process.

There was study done that claimed salt bath annealing did not work.

 

[Howland]

It usually takes 2-4 firings for the case shoulder to expand all the way to the chamber shoulder. If you measured once fired brass and then set the shoulder back 0.002" from that, you are almost certainly oversizing the brass.

 

[918v]

No it doesn’t. It takes 2-4 firings for a case to become completely fire formed to the chamber, not for the shoulder to reach its max length.

 

[supercorndogs]

I can usually find one that is tough to close the bolt on after the first firing.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Did you say 6.5 Creed?

 

[DownhillFromHere]

Fwiw, I use one of these. I've found factory rounds (Hornady, Prime) and virgin Peterson brass to measure -0.002 to -0.003 in it. Fired brass is +0.002 to +0.003. I barely move the shoulder, just enough (0.001-0.002) to know the size die touched the shoulder. Works for me.

 

[918v]

I use a .40 S&W pistol case. I spin them in the caliper jaws to settle and get very accurate readings.

 

[Eddystone]

If all the above doesn't get this resolved, do check for and clean for a carbon ring. I have had the mysterious heavy recoil before at starting loads, case separation, bad bolt lift, weird fliers. All I can figure is the carbon hangs up the bullet release from the throat/case. I had to reset headspace after also. I got a 2/3 circumference piece out intact. Major "Oooh" moment.

 

[918v]

Yeah, don’t be afraid to use a bronze brush to clean the barrel.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

Have you measured some factory ammo??

1.529 seems short.

Factory Hornady ammo measures 1.5560 on my comparator and it's under to fit in a variety of chambers.


Along with the case guage above, here is another quick way to check cases against saami spec..

Brass Min Dimension Gage - SAAMI Chamber-MDG-

 

[6brshooter]

Common denominator in these post... Hornady brass. Should chunk it out anyway.

Horseshit. It's not lapua brass, but its alot better than fgmm brass or nosler brass. Hes probably bumping shoulders 5 thou+ back, it happens. I've had nks and shoulders develop a crack on lapua brass that had 2 firings, .001 bump. Had 243 lapua brass that had to be nk turned because the same nk would vary .005" thickness, about 90% of 200 pieces were like that. I've used horn brass in 6.5 creed and 6.5prc for awhile, it works fine and is good quality. Is there better brass, sure, but it's far from garbage.

OP, shoot for .001 bump on shoulder and make sure you are seating fired primers back in before measuring, or punch them out with a universal decapping die. I bet you are measuring on a raised fired primer and that's skewing your fired length.

 

[Supersubes]

Have you measured some factory ammo??

1.529 seems short.

Factory Hornady ammo measures 1.5560 on my comparator and it's under to fit in a variety of chambers.


Along with the case guage above, here is another quick way to check cases against saami spec..

Brass Min Dimension Gage - SAAMI Chamber-MDG-

You must be using a .375 comparator, which prevents you from comparing numbers directly.

 

[Supersubes]

I misspoke in an earlier post, I have too many creedmoors. I size to roughly 1.531 give or take depending on the rifle. A go gauge is 1.5335. I chamber my barrels on the short side, and never shoot factory ammo.