Hornady brass explosion

[Cascade Hemi]

This thread is a microcosm of the reloading community. There is so much info good and bad out there, but there are no referees. I see so many new reloaders on forums without a clue asking for advice to help them. When I see the answers, I am sometimes horrified and sometimes amused. Not all is good or bad, but who decides? The answers to this original question of what was causing head separation fit into this observation. It shows just how many ideas there are about the use of comparators, headspace gauges, shoulder bump and chamber gauging. I see that even some of the writers who are familiar wit AANSI do not read the cartridge and chamber drawings' tolerances and that each must be considered for cumulative error for each gun. Manufacturers work within those tolerences and the reloader must adapt to keep the combination suitable for his use. There should be a source for learning correct reloading procedures required by all reloaders. I am usually against regulation, but in the case of operations that may endanger life and limb, I'm for it. Most states require basic hunter ed courses and only the old timers object. The NRA needs to get onto providing a basic qualification course that would give new reloaders the basics of safe reloading and advanced courses as new techniques are used. I would take it to review and find that even I had some wrong ideas. Jawboning about which scope or trigger or any other accessory is one thing, but reloading is a dangerous part of shooting. The danger here depends on so many factors unknown to many and especially newbys. I know that I usually think I am right, but I have found that even I can be wrong occasionally.

How about no.

 

[Pilotscrappy]

well i just got done scrubbing the chamber and removed (mostly) the carbon ring i had going.
I also borrowed some headspace gauges im getting ready to check those now(assuming will be fine)

im going to shoot tomorrow so i will see if i have any issues. Im using once fired brass tomorrow so hopefully everything will be back to normal.
pics of chamber after cleaning for last 2 hours.

 

[Pilotscrappy]

Go gauge will close and nogo will not.
Headspace is within spec.

So tomorrows range day we will see if everything is back in order, I'm assuming it will be as I don't see any other issues with my setup.

 

[Pilotscrappy]

Just a quick update, everything was good today @ range. Rifle shot great, no issues with ammo, and case length grew a little bit after 2nd firing and still chambers easily so I will neck size it again and see what happens on third firing of it.

Thank you to everyone that had helpful info.

 

[Brux]

What kind of bore scope are you using and how many rounds down that tube?

 

[Pilotscrappy]

What kind of bore scope are you using and how many rounds down that tube?

Teslong borescope Amazing little tool for 50$

And after today I've got 937 down the tube.

 

[NamibHunter]

Got the same bore scope off Amazon. Works really well.

FIRST low cost bore scope to have the correct focal length lens. Well made. Connects to any device that has a USB port and will allow an external camera. Worth getting one imho.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

I protected North Carolina from communism then I got into reloading. I'm okay

This thread is a microcosm of the reloading community. There is so much info good and bad out there, but there are no referees. I see so many new reloaders on forums without a clue asking for advice to help them. When I see the answers, I am sometimes horrified and sometimes amused. Not all is good or bad, but who decides? The answers to this original question of what was causing head separation fit into this observation. It shows just how many ideas there are about the use of comparators, headspace gauges, shoulder bump and chamber gauging. I see that even some of the writers who are familiar wit AANSI do not read the cartridge and chamber drawings' tolerances and that each must be considered for cumulative error for each gun. Manufacturers work within those tolerences and the reloader must adapt to keep the combination suitable for his use. There should be a source for learning correct reloading procedures required by all reloaders. I am usually against regulation, but in the case of operations that may endanger life and limb, I'm for it. Most states require basic hunter ed courses and only the old timers object. The NRA needs to get onto providing a basic qualification course that would give new reloaders the basics of safe reloading and advanced courses as new techniques are used. I would take it to review and find that even I had some wrong ideas. Jawboning about which scope or trigger or any other accessory is one thing, but reloading is a dangerous part of shooting. The danger here depends on so many factors unknown to many and especially newbys. I know that I usually think I am right, but I have found that even I can be wrong occasionally.

Are you saying we should have a license to reload? Instructors will decide on that? Because I'm always in fear of my life when it comes to getting my CCW license renewed. It's called a buffer before telling us we are all full of shit and only you know best. That is what you really wanted to say.

 

[ColdSteel260]

Just a quick update, everything was good today @ range. Rifle shot great, no issues with ammo, and case length grew a little bit after 2nd firing and still chambers easily so I will neck size it again and see what happens on third firing of it.

Thank you to everyone that had helpful info.

Good shooting! Now go win a match!

 

[Rocketmandb]

If Hornady started making SRP brass (unlikely, i guess), their brass life will almost certainly go way up.

But that's not going to fix their brass. I have a 300 PRC and Hornady is the only brass for sale. I got about 5 firings per case. This led me to prepping and fire forming 8x68S instead. I'm at about 5 firings with some of those cases and I see no signs of primer pockets going out.

My issues with Hornady:

- I think the brass itself (metal) is of inferior quality, which cases excessive growth and early primer pocket loosening
- The neck thickness varies. I've seen it go from .012 to .015 on cases out of the same box of brass.
- The above really requires the brass to be neck turned, so you do the work... but then the brass gives out in 5 firings.

I don't mind doing the work necessary to my brass to make it consistent, but when I do, I want it to last.

 

[GONE BAD]

If all the above doesn't get this resolved, do check for and clean for a carbon ring. I have had the mysterious heavy recoil before at starting loads, case separation, bad bolt lift, weird fliers. All I can figure is the carbon hangs up the bullet release from the throat/case. I had to reset headspace after also. I got a 2/3 circumference piece out intact. Major "Oooh" moment.

I started a thread like this on another forum. The answers all went a lot like this one. Then one member chimed in saying " Carbon Ring". Sure enough, I checked the barrel with a borescope and the carbon build up was obvious!

Check for decrease in velocity from previous time you checked it.

Getting the carbon out will be your next big hurdle!

 

[NamibHunter]

I started a thread like this on another forum. The answers all went a lot like this one. Then one member chimed in saying " Carbon Ring". Sure enough, I checked the barrel with a borescope and the carbon build up was obvious!

Check for decrease in velocity from previous time you checked it.

Getting the carbon out will be your next big hurdle!

Good advice.

From the OP: “i just got done scrubbing the chamber and removed (mostly) the carbon ring i had going.”

So I believe the OP actually found a carbon ring. To my eyes, it looks like a fairly minor carbon ring (at least compared to the one i found in a retired 6.5 CM barrel with 2,600 rounds through it). Pitch black, thick and wide, and extending below the case neck. Might explain the erratic speed i observed during the last weeks of shooting that barrel... Took a whole day to scrub that barrel back to 95% cleanliness. Plan to spin it back on and see how it shoots, post Tubb TMS treatment. Long shot perhaps, but that barrel was ridiculously accurate in its prime, so hoping i can re-use it for long range hunting purposes.

The lesson i learned the past week: Unless you have a good quality bore scope, you will very likely be unaware just how much carbon can build up in that area, until you see spikes in speed and recoil... the dreaded carbon ring can creep up on you! Normal barrel cleaning will not avoid a carbon ring.... [Especially if you use up an 8 lbs jar of RL-17.... why? because it was accurate and 180 fps faster than H4350). RL-17: Dirty powder that one. Mostly gave up on it (also too temperature sensitive).]

Plan to stick around and play with my great grandkids one day, you all be safe!

 

[Pilotscrappy]

Just a quick update. I have since switched to lapua brass and started load development with it. But as I was getting ready to chuck about 160 pieces of the hornady brass that failed on me (5 times fired) I decided to cut a few open to see if I could see the case head getting thin, indicating imminent separation.

Oddly enough the cases I cut open all look good? I cut open several. Of them and they all look the same, shouldn't there be obvious signs it's getting thin in the case head?

Either way I'm still moving forward with the lapua brass but I think this hornady brass still has life left, I guess I'll just save it for a rainy day or different rifle.

 

[NamibHunter]

You might well be right.

Always hard to tell from a photo, the case on the left looks good to me. The case on the right needs a bit of “deburring” to clean it up some more, but there might be the slightest of thinning at the yellow arrow - or not!

[i use a small file and try to chamfer the sharp edges 45 degrees, makes it a little easier to diagnose. My wife’s disposable nail files work surprisingly well...]

 

[Long Range 338]

So was the issue the carbon ring or brass related?

 

[waspocrew]

That's interesting to see how the cases looked when cut in half - thought for sure there'd be a nice thin ring.

 

[JMGlasgow]

This thread is a microcosm of the reloading community. There is so much info good and bad out there, but there are no referees. I see so many new reloaders on forums without a clue asking for advice to help them. When I see the answers, I am sometimes horrified and sometimes amused. Not all is good or bad, but who decides? The answers to this original question of what was causing head separation fit into this observation. It shows just how many ideas there are about the use of comparators, headspace gauges, shoulder bump and chamber gauging. I see that even some of the writers who are familiar wit AANSI do not read the cartridge and chamber drawings' tolerances and that each must be considered for cumulative error for each gun. Manufacturers work within those tolerences and the reloader must adapt to keep the combination suitable for his use. There should be a source for learning correct reloading procedures required by all reloaders. I am usually against regulation, but in the case of operations that may endanger life and limb, I'm for it. Most states require basic hunter ed courses and only the old timers object. The NRA needs to get onto providing a basic qualification course that would give new reloaders the basics of safe reloading and advanced courses as new techniques are used. I would take it to review and find that even I had some wrong ideas. Jawboning about which scope or trigger or any other accessory is one thing, but reloading is a dangerous part of shooting. The danger here depends on so many factors unknown to many and especially newbys. I know that I usually think I am right, but I have found that even I can be wrong occasionally.

First of all, FUCK THE NRA. As far as I'm concerned their certifications mean nothing after the current shit show they've put on display.
Second, safe reloading practices are outlined at the beginning of any reloading book. If a person chooses to not do their own research and read it that is on them.
Last, hunter safety in most states is completely pointless. Mine consisted of an 8 hour class going over firearm safety that my dad taught me, and then shooting paper at 25 yards. We weren't even required to hit the target to pass.

 

[Pilotscrappy]

So was the issue the carbon ring or brass related?

Honestly I'm not 100% sure...
I think it was a carbon ring causing pressure to spike as the rifle recoiled hard on the shots where the brass failed.

But I also had been over sizing the brass pretty badly soooo?

 

[Pilotscrappy]

You might well be right.

Always hard to tell from a photo, the case on the left looks good to me. The case on the right needs a bit of “deburring” to clean it up some more, but there might be the slightest of thinning at the yellow arrow - or not!

[i use a small file and try to chamfer the sharp edges 45 degrees, makes it a little easier to diagnose.]

View attachment 7193944

I'll give that a go and see if I see anything different.

 

[918v]

Good advice.

From the OP: “i just got done scrubbing the chamber and removed (mostly) the carbon ring i had going.”

So I believe the OP actually found a carbon ring. To my eyes, it looks like a fairly minor carbon ring (at least compared to the one i found in a retired 6.5 CM barrel with 2,600 rounds through it). Pitch black, thick and wide, and extending below the case neck. Might explain the erratic speed i observed during the last weeks of shooting that barrel... Took a whole day to scrub that barrel back to 95% cleanliness. Plan to spin it back on and see how it shoots, post Tubb TMS treatment. Long shot perhaps, but that barrel was ridiculously accurate in its prime, so hoping i can re-use it for long range hunting purposes.

The lesson i learned the past week: Unless you have a good quality bore scope, you will very likely be unaware just how much carbon can build up in that area, until you see spikes in speed and recoil... the dreaded carbon ring can creep up on you! Normal barrel cleaning will not avoid a carbon ring....

Yes it will. Normal barrel cleaning involves the use of a bronze brush which removes carbon rings easily.

 

[NamibHunter]

I was probably taught incorrectly. Always used patches on the brush...

I was told never to run a bronze brush down the barrel or into the chamber without a patch covering the brush, as (apparently) that can cause damage to the bore. Based on my adventures cleaning an old retired barrel (as an experiment) this past weekend, i have to admit that spinning a bronze brush inside the chamber is a must. Bore scope showed zero damage. Clearly bronze is a lot softer than steel...

Do you spin an oversize bronze brush inside the chamber manually, or do you use a drill? For how long, ie how much is adequate? What is the correct approach...

 

[918v]

I don’t spin the brush. I push a wet patch down the bore followed by 10 one way bronze brush strokes, then a wet patch, then ten more brush strokes, then a wet patch, then ten more brush strokes and I’m done.

You don’t need to get down to the bare metal. All you have to do is get it pretty clean. So, 3 wet patches and 30 one way brush strokes makes the bore clean enough. Running a bronze brush through a wet bore won’t scratch it.

I drilled out the threads on my jag/brush adapters so they only go down the bore in one direction and don’t have to be screwed onto the cleaning rod.

 

[spife7980]

I drilled out the threads on my jag/brush adapters so they only go down the bore in one direction and don’t have to be screwed onto the cleaning rod.

God damn... so simple and yet I have been spinning them off and on this entire time.

 

[FishDr]

I drilled out the threads on my jag/brush adapters so they only go down the bore in one direction and don’t have to be screwed onto the cleaning rod.

Great idea. I have been overlooking the obvious !!