Hot Take; Putin needs to just level Ukraine to save us from ourselves

[brianf]

I can respect that and your points about subsidies. Not about the gov involvement in what folks want to grow on their own land though. Supply and demand should dictate what people choose to grow.

I should prob rephrase…seems that my wording caused confusion

I don’t want them to tell you what to grow, I want proper farming practices to be used so we don’t kill the land and make it useless…

As a whole people may need direction and or education.

The dollar can cause decisions to go off the beaten path at times.

 

[BCP]

Putin IS leveling Ukraine, BTW. We now know that Russian conscripts have no training or spirit, and their only choice is to use artillery and claim the moonscape they create.

They certainly blew the shit out of Mariupol.

 

[hlee]

never change your opinion for money, its a sign of weakness

Not what I am saying. Keep your opinions. And, keep them to yourself. I'm not the only one on the board that has chosen not to do business with various vendors, based on what they have posted here.

 

[riverside jeep]

So Russian has a military of around 900,000. Ukraine is about 246,000. Russian could kick their ass if wanted, question is will we get our money back if Ukraine loses ? Looks like a bad bet on our part.

 

[jmp1]

now its 50 million, that can change your family's last name for generations...you almost have to sell out in some ways

never change your opinion for money, its a sign of weakness

Which one is it?? Don't change your opinion for money.......unless it's "make it rain" money??
Luckily for me...I'll never be forced to make that decision as I don't own anything that will make me filthy rich by selling out.
And don't get me wrong....government has its place.....but it should be quietly running in the background where you hardly notice its there.

 

[rlsmith1]

Also, farmers are more intelligent than most give them credit for.

The good farmers know what works and don't deviate. The great farmers know what works but take calculated chances to capture additional upside and efficiencies.

What is brutal for farmers is when fertilizer pricing is priced lockstep with grain prices. No way for them to get ahead when your cost of business is priced to give you a certain amount of profit. That's why locked in pricing is a thing. Farming is more than praying for rain, it's got elements of day trading and straight up science mixed in. And some guys do more than grow plants, animals is a whole different... animal lol

 

[brianf]

Which one is it?? Don't change your opinion for money.......unless it's "make it rain" money??
Luckily for me...I'll never be forced to make that decision as I don't own anything that will make me filthy rich by selling out.
And don't get me wrong....government has its place.....but it should be quietly running in the background where you hardly notice its there.

exactly..where do morals stop and future starts

it different for everyone

and one wont know until they get to that decision point no matter how hard and steadfast one thinks they are

...your a atheist until the arty shells start landing around you, then they all start praying for god

 

[brianf]

Also, farmers are more intelligent than most give them credit for.

The good farmers know what works and don't deviate. The great farmers know what works but take calculated chances to capture additional upside and efficiencies.

What is brutal for farmers is when fertilizer pricing is priced lockstep with grain prices. No way for them to get ahead when your cost of business is priced to give you a certain amount of profit. That's why locked in pricing is a thing. Farming is more than praying for rain, it's got elements of day trading and straight up science mixed in. And some guys do more than grow plants, animals is a whole different... animal lol

100% farming is a science..no where near putting some seeds in the ground and waiting 6 weeks like 1880

some guys i see when hunting are pig farmers

they say you make money 2 out of every 5 years, you just hope its not 2 good-3 bad-3 bad-2 good out of 10

those 2 pay for the whole 5

other guys i know stopped cattle and changed to high fence elk raising/hunting

supposedly the "care" is the same and they were making more on the same land land

 

[hlee]

other guys i know stopped cattle and changed to high fence elk raising/hunting

supposedly the "care" is the same and they were making more on the same land land

Elk are more efficient with their food usage. You can raise more lbs of meat per acre with elk than you can with cattle. And, venison sells at a substantial premium over beef. And, and is prized for being super lean, not marbled like a candy cane.

 

[Oldloser]

…what happens next is the dust bowl like 1930.

Or potatoe famine because the whole country of Ireland only grew 1-2 types of potatoe. Which were the largest /profitable. One fungus/virus and the entire system craps out.

Crop rotation etc, not just the easy or most profitable crops

Lots of reasons to not let farmers do what they want.

…I could also be wrong as I’m not a farmer but all realize examples happened because of “growing” how and what they wanted.

Famine is everywhere a political event. Almost always a people are uprooted, or forced to grow a monoculture, or controlled, and it leads to a system failure.

There are hundreds of thousands of ruins of stone houses all across Ireland and Scotland. And their last inhabitation last date to 1760 to 1841. Just google Highland Clearances. Look at the pictures. Imagine that is your house. It was the Trail of Tears times ten every few years. At least the Cherokee got something.

Potatoes became almost exclusively grown as a final result of the political solution forced on the Irish and Scots by the English after Drumossie that took away their land and traditional clan culture. It was not "farmers growing what they wanted." and NOT what they had or wanted.

The potato grew well in the cold damp Ireland. Combined with milk it was a survival food . It allowed the Irish and Scots to barely survive on marginal land after the Highland Clearances (which occurred everywhere not just upland). And it was easy to grow compared to wheat or barley and required MUCH less land. A good solution favored by and promoted by the Landowners until the blight. And something the refugees tried to make work. Tried. As they were always malnourished.

The mass migration following the famine was the final bookend on the chain of events following Drumossie where the clans were turned into refugees and systematically run off their land over a hundred years time. The clearances over time led to immediate death for tens of thousands when they were evicted and then the final death during the famine.

 

[brianf]

Famine is everywhere a political event. Almost always a people are uprooted, or forced to grow a monoculture, or controlled, and it leads to a system failure.

There are hundreds of thousands of ruins of stone houses all across Ireland and Scotland. And their last inhabitation last date to 1760 to 1841. Just google Highland Clearances. Look at the pictures. Imagine that is your house. It was the Trail of Tears times ten every few years. At least the Cherokee got something.

Potatoes became almost exclusively grown as a final result of the political solution forced on the Irish and Scots by the English after Drumossie that took away their land and traditional clan culture. It was not "farmers growing what they wanted." and NOT what they had or wanted.

The potato grew well in the cold damp Ireland. Combined with milk it was a survival food . It allowed the Irish and Scots to barely survive on marginal land after the Highland Clearances (which occurred everywhere not just upland). And it was easy to grow compared to wheat or barley and required MUCH less land. A good solution favored by and promoted by the Landowners until the blight. And something the refugees tried to make work. Tried. As they were always malnourished.

The mass migration following the famine was the final bookend on the chain of events following Drumossie where the clans were turned into refugees and systematically run off their land over a hundred years time. The clearances over time led to immediate death for tens of thousands when they were evicted and then the final death during the famine.

My grandmother on my moms side used to tell stories from her parents.

Crazy stuff

They left and went to Canada

 

[CMP70306]

Elk are more efficient with their food usage. You can raise more lbs of meat per acre with elk than you can with cattle. And, venison sells at a substantial premium over beef. And, and is prized for being super lean, not marbled like a candy cane.

Elk are a want vs beef which is a need and with elk people will pay substantially more for the inedible parts.

 

[hlee]

Elk are a want vs beef which is a need and with elk people will pay substantially more for the inedible parts.

Beef is no more of a need than any other protein source.

 

[Fig]

I’ve got a freezer full of elk. It’s good, but give me the candycane all day long.

 

[Rthur]

Trying to equate manufacturing which is scalable to farming which is finite

Do small firearms manufacturers receive government funds for idle machines

And Im the one showing….eh your not worth it.

You obviously don't know shit about farms/farmland.
Ag programs were invented to create control in food production.

R
^ this initial is owned by a 5th generation farmer

 

[brianf]

You obviously don't know shit about farms/farmland.
Ag programs were invented to create control in food production.

R
^ this initial is owned by a 5th generation farmer

As I said initially im not a farmer so information would be appreciated.

No need to get bitter.

Ag has nothing to do with scalability compared to manufacturing.

Even if the ag programs were turned off a farmer only has a certain amount of land….not scalable compared to manufacturing.

And programs have nothing to do with taking money from the government.

No one has a gun to your head saying take it…don’t want to be on the dole…sell some acres and farm your land 100%.

Everyone is jumping me saying live free or die and screw big government yet apparently they are all on the take.

 

[Rthur]

As I said initially im not a farmer so information would be appreciated.

No need to get bitter.

Ag has nothing to do with scalability compared to manufacturing.

Even if the ag programs were turned off a farmer only has a certain amount of land….not scalable compared to manufacturing.

And programs have nothing to do with taking money from the government.

No one has a gun to your head saying take it…don’t want to be on the dole…sell some acres and farm your land 100%.

Everyone is jumping me saying live free or die and screw big government yet apparently they are all on the take.

You think the government should decide what someone does with their own assets.
Your knowledge of gov programs, how they really work and what's was the cause of their implementation
is zero.
Bitter hasn't anything to do with it, emotions are best left to the left.
A wise man remains silent on subjects he hasn't any expertise on, a fool opens his and removes all doubt.

R

 

[brianf]

You think the government should decide what someone does with their own assets.
Your knowledge of gov programs, how they really work and what's was the cause of their implementation
is zero.
Bitter hasn't anything to do with it, emotions are best left to the left.
A wise man remains silent on subjects he hasn't any expertise on, a fool opens his and removes all doubt.

R

ill say it for the 10th time...then enlighten me on how they work

what i do know about CRP is that you get paid not to farm land that is able to be farmed for a multitude of reasons...but you decide to take money per acre from the government

they dont force you, you have to apply

that means you taking from the government/ tax dollars plain and simple

 

[hlee]

30,000 ft level view of 'how it works."

The farmer applies to the CRP program in order to receive a fixed payout- instead of planting their land.

The farmer doesn't plant, thus reducing the potential amount of product X in the market.

The reduced supply buoys the market price of that product.

The farmers that DO produce crop X, benefit from the CRP program because the market price is higher.

The consumer benefits from the program, as it mitigates the worst effects of boom and bust cycles.

A banner year doesn't necessarily mean great profits when demand is fixed and the product is perishable. A market that is saturated with product will see the market price drop, potentially to the level that it forces some farmers out of the market, or even out of business. Now, that corn/wheat/barley field is a "master planned community..." And, a poor year will see market prices sky high, with a few winners and many losers on the supply side. Those that failed to produce may move out of the market, or out of business. Now that corn/wheat/barley field is a "master planned community."

Cut off the ag programs and you won't have to force farmers to farm. But, you will soon see many out of business and the amount of farm land dramatically diminish.

Seriously suggesting that every square inch of arable land in the US should be farmed to 100% capacity takes a grotesque misunderstanding of the efficiency of modern farming practices. Going full retard and suggesting that the US should shut down exportation of ag products (so that we have enough here at home) is a level of dis-understanding that I cannot fathom. Taken together, those two suggestions (both foisted in this thread) would utterly gut US agricultural production.

 

[brianf]

Thanks for the info, makes sense if yield and price will be that volatile.

I totally agree that there should be mechanisms for keeping farmland with a constant or predictable yield for market stability. I might have even said that already.

That aside, programs are still government money changing hands.

certain members consistently touting they don’t need the government etc..yet they apply for the grant.

Im not mixing the 2 as they are separate.

They could just as easy not apply and the market is the same.

 

[Rthur]

Crp/filter strips/set aside doesn't pay equal to the yield in many/most instances.
Water shed requirements and more can force land owner/renter into programs.
Land lord requirements can force an entire operation into programs.
The tip of the iceberg ^^^.
It's my understanding that higher education instructors get paid well.
What's your offer?

R

 

[brianf]

Crp/filter strips/set aside doesn't pay equal to the yield in many/most instances.
Water shed requirements and more can force land owner/renter into programs.
Land lord requirements can force an entire operation into programs.
The tip of the iceberg ^^^.
It's my understanding that higher education instructors get paid well.
What's your offer?

R

Crp should not pay the same …that’s welfare

Watershed…is that because of the rationing / over use of water in places like cali?

Land lord means that you are in fact working for someone already, different than owning outright.

Missing you one the educator payments, unless you want to FaceTime and teach me a few hours a week.

Or I can just read the government hand out programs on line if I really want to know.

 

[lariat]

Truth: none of us own land outright. Don't pay your property taxes and find out. It may not have a note against it, but due to ongoing taxes and the ability to confiscate it for nonpayment, the government (state and local) actually owns what we buy for ourselves and our families.

The government HAS dictated similar things in the past. There have been cattle seizures, allotments by county still exist for certain crops, and cotton was limited to a certain amount of acreage in the latter part of the first half of the 1900s in Texas. I'm not sure how well this works - it could be argued that farmers and ranchers end up going out of business either way. But telling a farmer that he should only plant certain crops, accept the market price for those crops, pay market prices for the inputs and pay taxes levied at all levels is a formula for disaster. Especially since the majority of those that would make those rules have never had dirt under their fingernails once in their life. I'm not saying that the experience of farming gives God-like wisdom, but it does help to understand the dynamic and just how much those that actually feed the nation are under the gun and fall victim to the legislative whims of politicians listening to the likes of a Monsanto. You know Monsanto, the people who tried to patent pig DNA as well as ass-raped other farmers close to their proprietary corn?

Monsanto Looks to Patent Pigs

In what critics call a dangerous power grab, the Monsanto Company is seeking wide-ranging control over swine reproduction methods in the form of patents which, if granted, would give the corporation economic rights over any offspring produced using those techniques. Documents obtained by...

www.organicconsumers.org

Supreme Court hands Monsanto victory over farmers on GMO seed patents, ability to sue

The US Supreme Court upheld biotech giant Monsanto’s claims on genetically-engineered seed patents and the company’s ability to sue farmers whose fields are inadvertently contaminated with Monsanto materials.

www.rt.com

Monsanto sued small farmers to protect seed patents – report

Agrobusiness has won $23m from its targets, but one case is being heard at supreme court this month

www.theguardian.com

 

[TurboTrout]

They should level each other, we would do well with less combloc people.

Living in a place with lots of combloc immigrants, they are a very annoying and scammy people.

 

[oneshot86]

Damn gypsies

 

[Lapuapalooza]

I’m not sure who should tell anyone to do anything.

But farmland is a national resource, which should be utilized the most efficient and sustainable way possible.

From beginning of time through every empire, the ability to self sustain food for the population has always separated winners from losers.

That’s why China is throwing money in south and Central America. Their farmland was overused when mao took over in the 60’s and they can’t survive with out immense imports.

Additionally as soon as a farmer takes one penny or tax break they are now entering a contract of sorts.

Contracts have criteria.

I would think you of all people would want to protect it. You’d scream until your lungs popped out if the US needed to import “food” because we let the farmers build shopping malls and condos.

If we are going to demand the government dictate to, and run rough shod over an industry until it is aborted into history, then perhaps we can agree the government could at least start off with more useless industries. You know, like the pharmaceutical industry…

 

[QuickNDirty]

If we are going to demand the government dictate to, and run rough shod over an industry until it is aborted into history, then perhaps we can agree the government could at least start off with more useless industries. You know, like the pharmaceutical industry…

Especially those dumbass 'pharmaceutical' companies that sell stupid shit like weight loss pills and supplements.

 

[rtB]

Especially those dumbass 'pharmaceutical' companies that sell stupid shit like weight loss pills and supplements.

If you have an insurrection lasting 4 hours or more, please see your doctor.

In fact, I've always wondered wtf a doctor is going to do to help a 4 hour hard on. I mean maybe a nurse could do something.

 

[brianf]

If you have an insurrection lasting 4 hours or more, please see your doctor.

In fact, I've always wondered wtf a doctor is going to do to help a 4 hour hard on. I mean maybe a nurse could do something.

Nothing they give you a shot right where it hurts

 

[brianf]

Especially those dumbass 'pharmaceutical' companies that sell stupid shit like weight loss pills and supplements.

Worse than weight loss pills are pet vitamins.

Morons pay 2x for their pet for the same ingredients but with some pet tasty ingredients.

Next time you go the doctor and take a Tylenol..you just paid my mortgage. Hospitals, mil, clinical, jails all supply generics not brand.

Thanks I was running short this month

 

[acudaowner]

there is no saving us from our selves when the people who are responsible for creating the problem , paying for the problem and allowing it to escalate , and allowing the problems of this country to continue to happen over and over are us . we put people in charge that never should have been allowed to hold those jobs and to still draw a pay check , we also allowed those same people to pay with out money to create those problems , and we allowed it to continuously happen year after year and over and over again . All while sitting around watching it happen then act like no one knew how bad things have gotten or surprised when the shit hit that fan . it's like the socialists plan to destroy the country they said it they meant it Joe is backed by that socialist movement if you think he is not going to do what ever he can to appease that party's wants he is doing it now everyday with every policy he pushes . I just don't get why he's pushing to take your ability to fight back away (guns ) no one is trying to stop him as it is now .

 

[brianf]

there is no saving us from our selves when the people who are responsible for creating the problem , paying for the problem and allowing it to escalate , and allowing the problems of this country to continue to happen over and over are us . we put people in charge that never should have been allowed to hold those jobs and to still draw a pay check , we also allowed those same people to pay with out money to create those problems , and we allowed it to continuously happen year after year and over and over again . All while sitting around watching it happen then act like no one knew how bad things have gotten or surprised when the shit hit that fan . it's like the socialists plan to destroy the country they said it they meant it Joe is backed by that socialist movement if you think he is not going to do what ever he can to appease that party's wants he is doing it now everyday with every policy he pushes . I just don't get why he's pushing to take your ability to fight back away (guns ) no one is trying to stop him as it is now .

Very true

It’s like the country is standing in its head and it happened in 10-15 years.

We were going down this path for a long time.

think about it, bill Clinton is considered a republican now.

Everything changed and the “regular” is still catching up.

I used to say a good war/draft would get it back to normal but it’s become personal not idealistical now.

Uncharted territory

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

The Soviet Union was really good at telling farmers what to grow.
And using human resources

 

[brianf]

The Soviet Union was really good at telling farmers what to grow.
And using human resources

Moscow did have some great bread though.

Brothers x wife was from Ukraine, her parents were older born in the early 30’s

They had some crazy stories of how bad it really was

 

[Rthur]

Damn gypsies

Word.

R

 

[deersniper]

Just a giant money laundering gift for the US and Ukraine politicians.

More stolen us tax dollars.

Mitt , pelosi , and a pile of other ones have kids working at Ukraine oil company’s. WiTF

 

[brianf]

Just a giant money laundering gift for the US and Ukraine politicians.

More stolen us tax dollars.

Mitt , pelosi , and a pile of other ones have kids working at Ukraine oil company’s. WiTF

It’s just like it’s always been…but back in 1950 we never knew about it

 

[Lostin89]

Fuck em all. Not sure how or why anyone gives a shit about two ass backward countries having a cock fight.

Oh yea....communism bad blah blah blah. Fix your shit @ home; and then you can tell your neighbors where to piss.

Oh yea....I forgot to mention, fuck Ukraine, and fuck Russia, and fuck you if you try to tell me I should care.

Que MSM narratives so these fucksticks have something else to be offended or riled up about. Eat....a.....dick (of you missed the point, most people I've met only get pissed off at what thr news tells them to be, and ignores every single other atrocity bc it's convenient)

 

[deersniper]

Europe as a whole is still a useless welfare state, but they aren’t Chinese or Muslim which is a plus on the world stage.

They’re getting pretty Muslim.

Once again suffrage causes suffering.

They vote for welfare states and open borders.

 

[brianf]

They’re getting pretty Muslim.

Once again suffrage causes suffering.

They vote for welfare states and open borders.

True, France and Germany jumped the shark with Muslim immigration

 

[SilentStalkr]

highly doubtful. The Russians have proved to be completely inept at fighting a conventional war against a poorly armed, out dated, and nearly non existent actual military. You think they have any chance against a modern military on a NATO border? LOL

They literally couldn’t take over their crack head neighbors house and you think there is even a remote chance they are going to try and break into the fortress of a house on the other side of town? No

Wait, I thought people said that Russia was the ones flying those fancy UAPs that nobody knows anything about!

Time to give the rest of the world notice of not giving a fuck. We have more problems that are not a quick fix going on right now than any other time in my life.
I know we can not help but stick our nose in other Countries shit, but really we have serious problems right here that are fucking the economy and our security as a nation. and also Monkey Pox.

Don’t worry, Gates says to get your vaccine and all will be fine.

America has caused this problem we see because we keep getting involved in everyone’s shit, on purpose because we want to control them. Should have left Hussein in charge. Change my mind!

 

[SilentStalkr]

Man this forum has some complete fucking morons.

Welcome aboard, comrade!

 

[theLBC]

 

[deersniper]

the European nations just dont have "enough stuff" to put up a defense or long duration offense

If by don’t have enough stuff you mwan more concerned with funding welfare , “green” bull shit , and importing supporting muzzie breeders

 

[deersniper]

Farmers should be forced to grow so many crops that the prices fall so far that they can’t make a profit. And if they don’t, their land should be confiscated by the government and given to someone who will…

Dumb fucks think CRP crop insurance etc it to help the fsrmer

It’s to help the consumer and keep cheap stable food

 

[deersniper]

But farmland is a national resource, which should be utilized the most efficient and sustainable way possible.

HFS

Nationalize it !

Lmao why don’t you get some work ethic then you can buy some ground and dictate what is grown there.

Might have to actually supervise it though. Actually be there now and then to see what is going on. Maybe look at the books now and then


Communism will work this time!

 

[brianf]

Nationalize it !

Lmao why don’t you get some work ethic the. Yiu can buy some ground and dictate what is grown there.

Might have to actually supervise it though. Actually be there now and then to see what is going on. Maybe look at the books now and then

Work ethic, my main business went from 500k a month not being able to pay the bills to 9mm a month in sales on my sweat.

If people work like I have they wouldn’t be poor and complaining.

Supervision is only as good as the info given, fake records and COVID travel restrictions don’t help either.

When you work hard and smart you can afford mistakes and still go on vacation.

 

[deersniper]

govt crp or other programs work (good or bad)

CRP was started to have a reserve of ground that could be pulled in to produce crops during various crisis.

Now it’s just a money maker for land owners. And the real reason it’s kept around : the greenies and peasant hunters love it

 

[deersniper]

Work ethic, my main business went from 500k a month not being able to pay the bills to 9mm a month in sales on my sweat.

If people work like I have they wouldn’t be poor and complaining.

Supervision is only as good as the info given, fake records and COVID travel restrictions don’t help either.

When you work hard and smart you can afford mistakes and still go on vacation.

Hmm. Seems like you must just work those hands holding those coat tails if you let a business get that fubar

If ya worked that hard you wouldn’t espouse communist crap that has a 100 percent failure rate.

 

[deersniper]

Poor management is a thing and it's not exclusive to communism or capitalism. The central valley of california is on its way to being really fucked up because of farming techniques and idiot government water management. When I was a kid there was water everywhere, you could dig a well that was 30ft deep in the right spot and find water. Now it's 160-200+ ft or several hundred feet. Wells going dry in San Joaquin valley never thought I would hear that.

Arizona has the same problem, they let foreign companies drill down into the aquifers so they can grow alfalfa out in the desert. Stupid greedy government. Same for all the cookie cutter subdivisions instead of 1/2 or 1 acre parcels, they want the property tax dollars.

You would also agree that we should get rid of all the cities that pump water and also divert rivers to water their yards , drink etc ?

Ie all the cities like Vegas etc?

Can we also agree that recreation should have zero impact on management of various lake / reservoir / dams etc ?