I'd really like to have a light short action takedown in the 7.5-9lb range. Something similar to Remington's CSR but it'd have to be made by someone that supports their products. A lightweight AI CSR designed around and all new lighter action and chassis would be a wet dream. Will someone ever make this rifle I've been waiting for?
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How long do I have to wait for a quality manufacturer to make me a lightweight factory takedown rifle?
- Thread starter roamin
- Start date
Q's The Fix rifle is less than 6 pounds (16" .308 light weight version) and has a folding stock at $3,000. Or do you mean full briefcase type rifle?
Ruger 10-22 Takedown. Just wear a shooting jacket or buy a limbsaver. With that lightweight it really kicks.
I mean a sub 9lb rifle that I can takedown/setup in field without headspacing either tooless or with minimal tools in a few seconds and have RTZ preferably one that's military grade and is a traditional rifle not a bullpup. Similar to the AX but lighter, or the Remington CSR but with more than zero manufacturer support, or the Nemesis LMR but higher quality.
The Fix is a traditional rifle. Not sure what "military grade" means to you, but they are reliable from what I've read. Baring that, maybe an AIAT with a Proof barrel. Or an action in a MCS Platinum folder, Proof, etc.
Is the Fix a takedown rifle? Really looking for something that's tooless or requires something small like an allen wrench, doesn't require that I check headspace and can come apart and go back together in a few seconds in the field with RTZ. I want something that can handle a lifetime of being taken apart and put back together before and after every firing session without stripping any screws such as on the rail.
An AIAT wouldn't quite be the weight I'm looking for even with a Proof.
The Fix folds the stock, it does not however; have a tooless way to take the barrel off. I know the weight is a bit heavy, but “lifetime use” to me implies that the weight of an AI (AX or AT) might be worth it.
Not sure of other rifles that it as tooless AND repeatable as an AI.
Gary Eliseo makes a pretty sexy take down tube gun (Pierce action in Eliseo’s chassis). You’d still encounter a weight penalty, but it is another option you may could talk over about. Maybe ask if he can do you a custom carbon fiber forend and buttstock. It would definitely be a solid rifle if AI just ain’t your thing.
http://www.gotxring.com/new-pierceeliseo-stealth-take-down-rifle-system/
Not sure of other rifles that it as tooless AND repeatable as an AI.
Gary Eliseo makes a pretty sexy take down tube gun (Pierce action in Eliseo’s chassis). You’d still encounter a weight penalty, but it is another option you may could talk over about. Maybe ask if he can do you a custom carbon fiber forend and buttstock. It would definitely be a solid rifle if AI just ain’t your thing.
http://www.gotxring.com/new-pierceeliseo-stealth-take-down-rifle-system/
what for?
manners elite folder, vector (hand tight plus set screws), proof, lightweight rings/scope will get you close otherwise AI and suck it up weight wise
manners elite folder, vector (hand tight plus set screws), proof, lightweight rings/scope will get you close otherwise AI and suck it up weight wise
If you have a Rolls Royce taste, you have to have a Rolls Royce budget.
They're pretty sick. Not "Take Down" per se (like a Ruger or old Winchester), but same as because of the way they're modular and go together. Certainly they break down into a very small case. Smaller than the Blaser casein which they come...
You could get one of every AI they make for what they cost though...
My mistake. I was looking at the carbon fiber lowked out versions. You can find the lowest grade rifles "Jaeger" for around four grand. Very doable. There's your answer.
I was going to say: There is a WIDE range of pricing in the Blaser Line, They start about $4K and can go $50+K depending on how much you want to pimp things out.
There is a lot of miss-information about the Blasers out there. I own a few, I also have a few AI's and can compare and contrast them.
IMHO the Blaser is best take-down traveling rig for hunting out there. Hopefully the following info can help someone who is looking for a take-down hunting rig to decide if the Blaser is right for them.
First off the Blaser is really a "system" as opposed to a rifle. You can mix and match parts like a lego set:
Pros:
- Take down that allows you to carry TWO to THREE rifles in a 1/2 size gun case ( 1 stock, 2-3 scoped barrels in the case )
- Multi-caliber (.204 - .338 Lapua including .500 Jeffrey's)
- Can swap out different stocks
- 7-ish pounds (w/o ammo or optics)
- No return to zero issues (typically you buy a dedicated scope and scope mount for each barrel. You can swap scopes between barrels but then you have to re-zero)
- cycling the straight pull action is very fast - almost as fast as a semi auto
- Barrels made of very hard steel and last a long time
- 1/4 - 1/2 MOA accuracy
Cons:
- Hardly any aftermarket parts and theirs are pricey
- You MUST learn how to properly run the bolt and not pussy-foot it. If you close it softly it can appear in battery - but when you pull the trigger you just hear a click ...
- The same thing can happen if you don't FL resize brass on your reloads and have sloppy headspace.
- Not as sturdy as an AI - what hunting gun is?
I also have a Blaser Tactical (LRS-2). It seems more accurate than my AI's (but that's just splitting hairs as they are both 1/4-1/2 MOA guns and I am not a 1/4 MOA shooter) however, I can get 1/4 MOA more often with a wider range of ammo out of the Blaser than I can with the AI.
As I stated, they are on the pricy side. FWIW, I have shot multiple Blaser rifles with at least 20 different Blaser barrels and all of them were under 1/2 MOA ... so $4,000 for a 1/4-1/2 MOA hunting rifle? Seems to be about the going rate for any high-end gun that will shoot that well.
People are starting to warm up to switch-barrel guns for a range of tasks: practice on paper, long-range steel, varmints, big game ... Blaser has been doing switch-barrel guns for more than 30 years.
All that being said, even though I believe that the Blaser is one of the best hunting rigs out there I still shot a deer last year with my trusty AW .308.
There is a lot of miss-information about the Blasers out there. I own a few, I also have a few AI's and can compare and contrast them.
IMHO the Blaser is best take-down traveling rig for hunting out there. Hopefully the following info can help someone who is looking for a take-down hunting rig to decide if the Blaser is right for them.
First off the Blaser is really a "system" as opposed to a rifle. You can mix and match parts like a lego set:
Pros:
- Take down that allows you to carry TWO to THREE rifles in a 1/2 size gun case ( 1 stock, 2-3 scoped barrels in the case )
- Multi-caliber (.204 - .338 Lapua including .500 Jeffrey's)
- Can swap out different stocks
- 7-ish pounds (w/o ammo or optics)
- No return to zero issues (typically you buy a dedicated scope and scope mount for each barrel. You can swap scopes between barrels but then you have to re-zero)
- cycling the straight pull action is very fast - almost as fast as a semi auto
- Barrels made of very hard steel and last a long time
- 1/4 - 1/2 MOA accuracy
Cons:
- Hardly any aftermarket parts and theirs are pricey
- You MUST learn how to properly run the bolt and not pussy-foot it. If you close it softly it can appear in battery - but when you pull the trigger you just hear a click ...
- The same thing can happen if you don't FL resize brass on your reloads and have sloppy headspace.
- Not as sturdy as an AI - what hunting gun is?
I also have a Blaser Tactical (LRS-2). It seems more accurate than my AI's (but that's just splitting hairs as they are both 1/4-1/2 MOA guns and I am not a 1/4 MOA shooter) however, I can get 1/4 MOA more often with a wider range of ammo out of the Blaser than I can with the AI.
As I stated, they are on the pricy side. FWIW, I have shot multiple Blaser rifles with at least 20 different Blaser barrels and all of them were under 1/2 MOA ... so $4,000 for a 1/4-1/2 MOA hunting rifle? Seems to be about the going rate for any high-end gun that will shoot that well.
People are starting to warm up to switch-barrel guns for a range of tasks: practice on paper, long-range steel, varmints, big game ... Blaser has been doing switch-barrel guns for more than 30 years.
All that being said, even though I believe that the Blaser is one of the best hunting rigs out there I still shot a deer last year with my trusty AW .308.
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Hi,
He said a company that supports a product and you happen to pick a company that makes Remington's support department look superb
As 300AT mentioned...Blaser has been doing switch barrel systems for decades. So even if the Blaser system is not what you are looking for; may I suggest you broaden or narrow (depending on how you look at it) to European manufacturers and Custom gun builders. The switch barrel systems have always been way way more "acceptable" over there.
Sincerely,
Theis
As it was explained to me. German hunters were limited in the number of rifles they could own after WWII. As such it drove a need for a switch barrel system: one gun - many barrels. Also they do a lot of driven hunts in Germany where you can shoot as many animals (e.g. boars) as run past your blind. You have to be able to cycle the gun as fast as a semi-auto and stay on target to do well in this situation - hence the straight-pull action.
The Germans are HARDCORE anal engineers and you see this in the Blaser rifles.
The Germans are HARDCORE anal engineers and you see this in the Blaser rifles.
I think you'll find you have to pick what you want.
I'd suggest that for what you want, you might just want to go semi custom:
What I might suggest is get one of the manners or similar folding stocks, and then put on it one of the new quick barrel change rifles that all the custom action guys are doing (such as PVA) that have a quick lock barrel nut. Then you take off the barrel and fold the stock and are done.
The Blaser R8 while not a true "take down" pretty much does the same thing as the stock & barrel come apart which means you can pack it up pretty small. It also can go a wide variety of calibers. They start out in the mid $3k range and go up. The problem is that for each barrel you buy, you could just buy another Tikka T3x in the caliber instead.
You can take an AI AX short action and pack it down very small indeed if you take off the barrel, handguard & fold the stock. They will go in a large briefcase. But you are looking at a pretty heavy gun.
The Nemesis Vanquish (based on the EDM design) comes apart into a tiny package and goes together completely without tools. However it's heavy at around 16 pounds depending on the barrel. It is rugged as anything, but you pay for that in weight.
I'd suggest that for what you want, you might just want to go semi custom:
What I might suggest is get one of the manners or similar folding stocks, and then put on it one of the new quick barrel change rifles that all the custom action guys are doing (such as PVA) that have a quick lock barrel nut. Then you take off the barrel and fold the stock and are done.
The Blaser R8 while not a true "take down" pretty much does the same thing as the stock & barrel come apart which means you can pack it up pretty small. It also can go a wide variety of calibers. They start out in the mid $3k range and go up. The problem is that for each barrel you buy, you could just buy another Tikka T3x in the caliber instead.
You can take an AI AX short action and pack it down very small indeed if you take off the barrel, handguard & fold the stock. They will go in a large briefcase. But you are looking at a pretty heavy gun.
The Nemesis Vanquish (based on the EDM design) comes apart into a tiny package and goes together completely without tools. However it's heavy at around 16 pounds depending on the barrel. It is rugged as anything, but you pay for that in weight.
I'd suggest you don't get an R93 despite what a great deal you find on them.. Pay the money for the R8 & have peace of mind.
(Google it if you want all the details).
germany has some pretty insane gun laws. even training laws are weird. the vtac podcast with oliver i believe from vtac germany they talk about it a lot
Some of us are not above "dumpster diving" ... but yes the R8 is an improvement on the R93 and the currently manufactured product.
This is a great time to be in long-range shooting. The equipment is so good and there are so many good options. Most of the factory supported take down or switch barrel rifles come from Europe as W54/XM-338 said. They have been doing this for a long time. HS Precision makes a take-down rifle (also expensive). He also stated that you can go the semi-custom route and build a DIY switch barrel rifle with offerings like the Barloc from ARC as m6z mentioned above.
One of the things that always bugged me about the Blaser was stated earlier: you can buy a Tikka for what a new barrel and scope mount will cost ($1,400 - $2,200). I get it, it's not as fun to call up your buddies and say: "Hey come over and check out my new barrel!" as to say "Hey come check out my new rifle!"; however, the other side of that coin is that the Blaser route gives you a new caliber in a take down configuration that is 1/4 - 1/2 MOA with no return to zero issues that has the exact same trigger and ergo's of all your "other" Blasers and allows you to practice with say a .223 and then switch it to a 300WM in about 60 seconds.
Don't discount the value of practicing with the same ergonomics - I have friends that have spent over $6,000 on a Vudoo .22LR so that they could closely match their PRS guns. Since then their practice round count has gone up significantly. I find it interesting that a switch barrel trend seems to be forming here in the US. I was wondering when that would happen.
One of the things that always bugged me about the Blaser was stated earlier: you can buy a Tikka for what a new barrel and scope mount will cost ($1,400 - $2,200). I get it, it's not as fun to call up your buddies and say: "Hey come over and check out my new barrel!" as to say "Hey come check out my new rifle!"; however, the other side of that coin is that the Blaser route gives you a new caliber in a take down configuration that is 1/4 - 1/2 MOA with no return to zero issues that has the exact same trigger and ergo's of all your "other" Blasers and allows you to practice with say a .223 and then switch it to a 300WM in about 60 seconds.
Don't discount the value of practicing with the same ergonomics - I have friends that have spent over $6,000 on a Vudoo .22LR so that they could closely match their PRS guns. Since then their practice round count has gone up significantly. I find it interesting that a switch barrel trend seems to be forming here in the US. I was wondering when that would happen.
I think that trend in the USA is forming for slightly different reasons than in Europe.
I think here it is driven quite a bit by the sudden rise of many different boutique cartridges for specific match shooting events, as well as the rise of the heavy long distance rounds which need faster twist rates. Add to that, the issue that most of the hugely popular competition rounds probably have a peak barrel life of under 2000 rounds, some a peak of 1000 rounds.
So there is a demand for being able to just swap to a different barrel if you want to try shooting a new cartridge, or want to go from shooting light close target projectiles, to the heavy long range ones that do better with a different twist, or wanting to swap barrels when they burn out, or having a practice barrel / competition barrel. In addition some like to take their guns hunting and for range work you may want a long barrel, for a hunting trip you may want a short one (with or without suppressor), so having a switch barrel rifle gives you all that.
I'd say also a big part is that the Military has been pushing that for some time now so they can re-configure rifles for various countries without having to buy all new ones, which is how we got the AXMC and probably the Barrett MRAD. EDM was a bit ahead of their time and a bit too special purpose, but they were offering the same type of thing long ago in a rifle near impossible to break. (or carry HA!)
Lightweight ar10. Your not getting velocity in a small package anyway and faster follow up shots outweighs a slight accuracy advantage. More modular than any kraut $10k wondergun anyway.
The Ruger take down AR platform in .223 and .300 blackout is actually pretty slick and nifty.
If they could make a bigger version for .308 6.5CM and similar it would be pretty cool.
I was going to say: There is a WIDE range of pricing in the Blaser Line, They start about $4K and can go $50+K depending on how much you want to pimp things out.
There is a lot of miss-information about the Blasers out there. I own a few, I also have a few AI's and can compare and contrast them.
IMHO the Blaser is best take-down traveling rig for hunting out there. Hopefully the following info can help someone who is looking for a take-down hunting rig to decide if the Blaser is right for them.
First off the Blaser is really a "system" as opposed to a rifle. You can mix and match parts like a lego set:
Pros:
- Take down that allows you to carry TWO to THREE rifles in a 1/2 size gun case ( 1 stock, 2-3 scoped barrels in the case )
- Multi-caliber (.204 - .338 Lapua including .500 Jeffrey's)
- Can swap out different stocks
- 7-ish pounds (w/o ammo or optics)
- No return to zero issues (typically you buy a dedicated scope and scope mount for each barrel. You can swap scopes between barrels but then you have to re-zero)
- cycling the straight pull action is very fast - almost as fast as a semi auto
- Barrels made of very hard steel and last a long time
- 1/4 - 1/2 MOA accuracy
Cons:
- Hardly any aftermarket parts and theirs are pricey
- You MUST learn how to properly run the bolt and not pussy-foot it. If you close it softly it can appear in battery - but when you pull the trigger you just hear a click ...
- The same thing can happen if you don't FL resize brass on your reloads and have sloppy headspace.
- Not as sturdy as an AI - what hunting gun is?
I also have a Blaser Tactical (LRS-2). It seems more accurate than my AI's (but that's just splitting hairs as they are both 1/4-1/2 MOA guns and I am not a 1/4 MOA shooter) however, I can get 1/4 MOA more often with a wider range of ammo out of the Blaser than I can with the AI.
As I stated, they are on the pricy side. FWIW, I have shot multiple Blaser rifles with at least 20 different Blaser barrels and all of them were under 1/2 MOA ... so $4,000 for a 1/4-1/2 MOA hunting rifle? Seems to be about the going rate for any high-end gun that will shoot that well.
People are starting to warm up to switch-barrel guns for a range of tasks: practice on paper, long-range steel, varmints, big game ... Blaser has been doing switch-barrel guns for more than 30 years.
All that being said, even though I believe that the Blaser is one of the best hunting rigs out there I still shot a deer last year with my trusty AW .308.
The R8 looks very nice but I'm looking for more of a chassis rifle. I did look into the R8 a bit after your suggestion and I've seen some pics of chassis systems I think are available for the R8 and they don't quite look up to snuff compared chassis systems we have in the US. If Blaser designed a top notched chassis around the R8 maybe put a throw lever QD rail on it and fully adjustable and slim folding stock I might have to get an R8.
The custom route is an option but what if I spent the money to go that route and then a few years later AI introduced their version of Remingtons CSR, I'd be selling the custom. I realize that the CSR was produced for a mil contract but I feel like if I just wait someone will make the rifle I've been waiting for because that's one of many directions that the market is going. We're seeing demand for LW rifles like the Fix and the MPR and some LW chassis systems. Carbon wrapped barrels are popular as ever. We're also seeing systems like the Barloc gain popularity. I think it's only a matter of time before a manufacturer combines these items into one product and takes them to the next level while they're at it. Hence the thread title "How long do I have to wait" I just don't see what I'm looking for currently on the market. If Remington wasn't Remington and they actually supported the CSR I'd be all over that but neither is the case.
Nemesis Arms does make an LMR rifle it's just over 8lbs. Thing is I'd like a product produced by an outfit that has the capability to bring the product they want to market not someone that is forced to release a different product due to limited funding or limited manufacturing capability. Have a look at Nemesis's receivers and then go look at a top end billet large frame AR receiver and it's not even close. It becomes apparent real quick what stage of evolution that Nemesis Arms is as a company, just not what I'm looking for.
Already have one and I love it but here's a pic of the CSR it doesn't compact to the same level.
I've seen some accuracy testing of Ruger's AR takedown it didn't go so well.
Hi,
@roamin
If gas gun is a viable option then I do not think you will get much shorter and faster "setup" time than this:
https://www.foldar.com/
F&D Defense was suppose to bring this to market a couple years ago or something like that but the original designers and IP right owners are now bringing it to market themselves.
Sincerely,
Theis
@roamin
If gas gun is a viable option then I do not think you will get much shorter and faster "setup" time than this:
https://www.foldar.com/
F&D Defense was suppose to bring this to market a couple years ago or something like that but the original designers and IP right owners are now bringing it to market themselves.
Sincerely,
Theis
Dammit please tell me I can’t slap that complete upper on top of my SBR lower that already has a side folding stock. Because if so I just lost some money.
If your AR receiver is registered as an SBR and your state is good with SBRs, then you can easily put the folding stock on it and be good to go.
Most of those folding AR stocks are part attached to your lower and then a bit of a mod to the upper, but some are just lower parts only.
Most of those folding AR stocks are part attached to your lower and then a bit of a mod to the upper, but some are just lower parts only.
Hi,
Well since you are SBR already lol....here you go.
https://www.foldar.com/product/foldar-.223-wylde-complete-9-upper
9" barreled upper that folds lol.
@W54/XM-388 That Upper Folds lol
Sincerely,
Theis
No I'm not looking for an AR but thank you. In fact I'm not looking for any product recommendations but I do appreciate those who them made and I was happy to listen to them you never know maybe I had overlooked a product but that doesn't seem to be the case. I've described in some small detail what I'm looking for and the product is not currently on the market The thread title is "how long do I have to wait" for someone to make the item I've described. I do believe that that's the direction the market is going and that it's only a matter of time what are your thoughts do you agree?
A late friend of mine had a custom takedown Rem 7 huntingrifle. The barrel and action had interupted threads like Browning SA22 and an European/Valmet 412 qd "oppsite cantilever" scopemount that attached to the "safari rib" on the barrel for no loss of zero. Copying this config in 6.6cm and cdi magwell would make a very neat rig.
Hi,
O shit, well if you are just wanting an answer to your question then that is an easy one to answer
"How long do I have to wait for a quality manufacturer to make me a lightweight factory takedown rifle?"
Answer: Until a quality manufacturer makes a lightweight factory takedown rifle. That will be how long you have to wait.
Sincerely,
Theis
O shit, well if you are just wanting an answer to your question then that is an easy one to answer
"How long do I have to wait for a quality manufacturer to make me a lightweight factory takedown rifle?"
Answer: Until a quality manufacturer makes a lightweight factory takedown rifle. That will be how long you have to wait.
Sincerely,
Theis
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?Hi,
O shit, well if you are just wanting an answer to your question then that is an easy one to answer
"How long do I have to wait for a quality manufacturer to make me a lightweight factory takedown rifle?"
Answer: Until a quality manufacturer makes a lightweight factory takedown rifle. That will be how long you have to wait.
Sincerely,
Theis
I had to read this paragraph twice... So..., what about the ambidextrous bolt and/or the "time lock barrel" (whatever that is) protects our warfighters and officers more effectively?
Hi,
In regards to the ambi bolt action......per Nemesis they designed the WORLDS first ambi bolt action in November 2013...but wait lol
Here is picture of a NON Nemesis ambi bolt action in July 2013...
Sincerely,
Theis
In regards to the ambi bolt action......per Nemesis they designed the WORLDS first ambi bolt action in November 2013...but wait lol
Here is picture of a NON Nemesis ambi bolt action in July 2013...
Sincerely,
Theis
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Hi,
Some of us know the details and backgrounds.
Ever wonder why EDM basically broke their own contract with Nemesis in regards to EDM not being able to manufacturer the Mini Windrunner and turn over all rights of such to Nemesis....
Ever wonder what Nemesis did/did not do to fulfill their side of the contract; in which allowed EDM to do what they did with no repercussions from Nemesis....
Sincerely,
Theis
The R8 is a great takedown rifle. You can take the rifle down with one tool, put it in your back pack - arrive at your backcountry destination, put it back together w/o losing zero.
I can run a 16” .308 and any LW scope or aimpoint for a very short light kill’n setup /a 21” win mag NF 2.5-10x32 / and my current favorite combo whacking 6 for 6 this year 300N match barrel, ATACR 4-16 mil-r, 7” ultra, tier one 20moa rings etc. just as accurate as any AI or custom I have owned (or better).
I have killed ‘em at 8 yards to 800.
.222 rem to 458 Lott - but if you want a chassis the only good one I know of is made in Russia - not currently available in USA
I can run a 16” .308 and any LW scope or aimpoint for a very short light kill’n setup /a 21” win mag NF 2.5-10x32 / and my current favorite combo whacking 6 for 6 this year 300N match barrel, ATACR 4-16 mil-r, 7” ultra, tier one 20moa rings etc. just as accurate as any AI or custom I have owned (or better).
I have killed ‘em at 8 yards to 800.
.222 rem to 458 Lott - but if you want a chassis the only good one I know of is made in Russia - not currently available in USA
Attachments
I agree with @DetroitRearView that the Blaser is really hard to beat as a take down rifle. I haven't found anything that compares. They are 1/4 MOA or better out of the box, they just shoot ... even run-of-the-mill factory ammo. If they would produce a tactical stock (LRS or Blaser Tactical) with 10 round mag they would be near impossible to beat in PRS. Straight pull action is almost as fast as a semi-auto. Cycling the bolt does not upset your cheek weld as much as a regular bolt and you could swap barrels out as needed for the match at hand. You could even swap out barrels (calibers) between stages (e.g. 6br for inside 800 and 6.5x284 for longer stages).
Biggest cons:
They take away all the fun of load development
You get an urge to get rid of your other rifles
As @reubenski states you can get a smith to build you a one-off custom switch barrel gun as a take down. Been there done that ... they sometimes sort-of work but my experience is that they tend to suffer from POI shifts and headspace problems between barrel mountings, especially if you are changing calibers and you end up spending as much as an off the shelf Blaser anyway.
Biggest cons:
They take away all the fun of load development
You get an urge to get rid of your other rifles
As @reubenski states you can get a smith to build you a one-off custom switch barrel gun as a take down. Been there done that ... they sometimes sort-of work but my experience is that they tend to suffer from POI shifts and headspace problems between barrel mountings, especially if you are changing calibers and you end up spending as much as an off the shelf Blaser anyway.
