How the Hide has changed

[Gunfighter14e2]

Interesting read but what happens when overwhelming force is removed or the target has ability's equal too or beyond the swat team/responders?
I separate LE shooters from mil snipers as the tasks are completely different.

 

[Jerrrrstanley]

I think LE snipers have an asterick. I know there are differences and similarities but I can not make an intelligent comparison because I have never been a military sniper. Our sniper course does include lots of stalking and concealments. We shoot out to 900 yards but they only really focus on less than 500. The farther stuff is for bragging rights I guess.
In my opinion our team snipers aren't utilized correctly. We are an after thought. We are dual purpose and us being in the stack often trumps laying in the weeds. Every once in a while we will get to spend the night on a hotel rooftop or slip behind a meth lab to snipe runners with 40 mm exact impact rounds.

As far as tiers go I agree. I have seen teams ragged tagged together that never train and are not in physical shape to the their shows much less be on a SWAT team. They are good guys and mean well but as soon as something is mentioned about a gun its "hold a perimeter and call so and so, NOW!!

 

[Graham]

How the Hide has changed

I separate LE shooters from mil snipers as the tasks are completely different.

Most of the tasks are the same, when employed correctly, and most of the required skill sets are the same as well.

In both LE and military, snipers are misused or under utilized by commanders who do not understand the capabilities or the role of a sniper team. But that doesn't mean that the tasks are different.

The rules of engagement and use of force rules / ROEs are different between LE and military. And the operational environment (and therefore tactics and gear and mission) differ as well. But the the tasks to be performed are the same.

 

[pawprint2]

It is not about sensitivity, it is about accuracy.

And you would have been accurate had you quoted me the first time instead of doing so in defense of your interpretation of what I meant.

You accused me of saying that 'So generally speaking most LE "Snipers" are blowing smoke?' That's putting words in my mouth. I did not say that. That was your conclusion. And it is an incorrect one.

It does appear that you are overly sensitive - to say the least. As you quoted me, correctly I might add, I ended the question with a question mark!!!! I was not "quoting you", but rather asking a question, this is why there was a question mark at the end of the sentence. You are correct, it is about accuracy! A quote, and a question are different, hence the period or the question mark. Accuracy, Accuracy, Accuracy-please look at the question mark at the end of the question, I believe you may gain a more accurate understanding of the sentence.

 

[Graham]

How the Hide has changed

It does appear that you are overly sensitive - to say the least. As you quoted me, correctly I might add, I ended the question with a question mark!!!! I was not "quoting you", but rather asking a question, this is why there was a question mark at the end of the sentence. You are correct, it is about accuracy! A quote, and a question are different, hence the period or the question mark. Accuracy, Accuracy, Accuracy-please look at the question mark at the end of the question, I believe you may gain a more accurate understanding of the sentence.

Your reading comprehension leaves much to be desired: I never claimed that you quoted me; I claimed the opposite, that you would have been better off had you quoted me.

You posted a rhetorical question. That's why it began with "So, ..." Now you are attempting to claim that it was an honest query. That is deceptive.

You can't now hide behind a question mark, claiming that it was somehow a legitimate question in the context of that post. Nice try, but no one will believe you on that one.

 

[JeffLebowski]

I get tired of the children getting on here, asking "how do I clean my rifle" and whining when they are told to use search or Google.

 

[19Scout77]

It does appear that you are overly sensitive - to say the least. As you quoted me, correctly I might add, I ended the question with a question mark!!!! I was not "quoting you", but rather asking a question, this is why there was a question mark at the end of the sentence. You are correct, it is about accuracy! A quote, and a question are different, hence the period or the question mark. Accuracy, Accuracy, Accuracy-please look at the question mark at the end of the question, I believe you may gain a more accurate understanding of the sentence.

Pawprint...you, of all people, should NOT be posting in a thread in which folks are lamenting about the Hide being populated by a new generation of douchebags.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

But the the tasks to be performed are the same.

Morphing & dressing like, are not the same as.
We will agree to disagree.

 

[Graham]

How the Hide has changed

Morphing & dressing like, are not the same as.
We will agree to disagree.

You said 'tasks'. Teams do not get tasked to 'Morph'.

 

[shankster..]

Pawprint...you, of all people, should NOT be posting in a thread in which folks are lamenting about the Hide being populated by a new generation of douchebags.

 

[pawprint2]

Pawprint...you, of all people, should NOT be posting in a thread in which folks are lamenting about the Hide being populated by a new generation of douchebags.

Let me guess you or one of your "sweet buddies" are on some kind of Mall or Subway cop SWAT team? Aren't you the guy with the "frozen bolt" and needed help as it had just overwhelmed you? God Bless, What about the old generation of douchebags where did they go? NJ-a state full of great gun owners........always on the leading edge in our country, I believe you [NJ] were one of the first to allow gay marriage, I guess the rest of us should really pay attention to NJ-they seem to lead the way.

 

[pawprint2]

Shankster- I always suspected you and your type had large collections of this type of photo, this man on man thing seems to be a real theme (life style) for you and your "buddies". You and 19scout77 may want to get together in NJ!!

 

[19Scout77]

Let me guess you or one of your "sweet buddies" are on some kind of Mall or Subway cop SWAT team? Aren't you the guy with the "frozen bolt" and needed help as it had just overwhelmed you? God Bless, What about the old generation of douchebags where did they go? NJ-a state full of great gun owners........always on the leading edge in our country, I believe you [NJ] were one of the first to allow gay marriage, I guess the rest of us should really pay attention to NJ-they seem to lead the way.

Frozen bolt? Not me sunshine. Best you can do is geo-political insults? I expected more...

 

[shankster..]

Shankster- I always suspected you and your type had large collections of this type of photo, this man on man thing seems to be a real theme (life style) for you and your "buddies". You and 19scout77 may want to get together in NJ!!

pawprint, I wouldn't know 19Scout77 if he was cornholing your mom on TV wearing a Sniper's Hide T-shirt and a name tag.

 

[pawprint2]

You may want to "get to know him", as with your collection of men on men photos, it appears you two would have a lot in common.

 

[Graham]

How the Hide has changed

Oh, how the Hide has changed. Not even the caliber of insults is what it used to be.

Many of the new people know everything; but that's all they know.

 

[Jerrrrstanley]

Well at leas the OP has proved his point without saying much at all!!

 

[pawprint2]

At LEAST he proof read his post, this does not constitute proof, but it is easy to read.

 

[ArcticLight]

I respect the military snipers.

And I respect the LE snipers that train like our local PD's do.

And they train UNDER 100 yards, which can be some of the most difficult shots to take.

Not to mention hostage situations, shooting through glass, cars....

Those that train and take their job serious have my respect, if my butt is on the line I hope to GOD they are out training before they take that shot...

Military is military, history has proven them effective. It's LE shots that you hear so little about, WITHOUT GOOGLING........

Anyway like I said the dictionary definition is a shooter from a concealed location, relative to my opinion that's what matters.

Relative to military snipers nobody else gets to play......

 

[Jon Lester]

End of the Day, I have met some great friends and remarkable people as a result of this site. There relationships sort of changed who and what I am to a small point........ met a few real turds too but good always outweighs the bad if you let it.

 

[VJJPunisher]

the hide has changed when mouthbreathin dipshits like pawprint and maser are allowed to roam freely. As an aside I notice Paw is constantly mentioning man on man action, It appears to me that he is in fact the one who craves a mouthful of cock sammich, just an observation, take no offense

 

[Greg Langelius *]

when greg langelius doesn't sound so darn wise, then you know the hide has changed.

Wow. Thanks, TP.

If I come across as wise, it's probably because I have had the best teachers..., the rest of you folks here at The 'Hide.

I know that if I pose a viewpoint here, I am occasionally going to receive a lot of comment, both yea and nay.

The yea is easy to take, maybe even too easy.

The nay could be hard to take, but, my view lately, it shouldn't be. Like the Roman slave whispering "Remember, thou art mortal...", it serves to give one pause, to consider the criticism at face value. One of the easier things I find I do is being wrong. When somebody tells me I'm wrong, I'm finding it wiser to consider they could be right, and that I'd be well served to reexamine my view.

That's how I've learned some of my most valuable lessons here.

So, if you see me looking at the thrown gauntlet and leaving it where it lies, that's not a "kindler, gentler Greg" at work; that's Greg trying to learn from the criticism.

When it comes down to learning things here, I learn with the best, from the best.

...From the rest of you folks here...

Greg

 

[Maggot]

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

the hide has changed when mouthbreathin dipshits like pawprint and maser are allowed to roam freely. As an aside I notice Paw is constantly mentioning man on man action, It appears to me that he is in fact the one who craves a mouthful of cock sammich, just an observation, take no offense

 

[Maser]

Other than the layout and the Shout Box, the Hide hasn't really changed all that much in my eyes since I joined back in 2006. Although it has calmed down a bit though over the past few months.

 

[Mark williams]

Wow. Thanks, TP.

If I come across as wise, it's probably because I have had the best teachers..., the rest of you folks here at The 'Hide.

I know that if I pose a viewpoint here, I am occasionally going to receive a lot of comment, both yea and nay.

The yea is easy to take, maybe even too easy.

The nay could be hard to take, but, my view lately, it shouldn't be. Like the Roman slave whispering "Remember, thou art mortal...", it serves to give one pause, to consider the criticism at face value. One of the easier things I find I do is being wrong. When somebody tells me I'm wrong, I'm finding it wiser to consider they could be right, and that I'd be well served to reexamine my view.

That's how I've learned some of my most valuable lessons here.

So, if you see me looking at the thrown gauntlet and leaving it where it lies, that's not a "kindler, gentler Greg" at work; that's Greg trying to learn from the criticism.

When it comes down to learning things here, I learn with the best, from the best.

...From the rest of you folks here...

Greg

. Well said and with a lot of wisdom I might add!

 

[Cartman]

Wow. Thanks, TP.

If I come across as wise, it's probably because I have had the best teachers..., the rest of you folks here at The 'Hide.

I know that if I pose a viewpoint here, I am occasionally going to receive a lot of comment, both yea and nay.

The yea is easy to take, maybe even too easy.

The nay could be hard to take, but, my view lately, it shouldn't be. Like the Roman slave whispering "Remember, thou art mortal...", it serves to give one pause, to consider the criticism at face value. One of the easier things I find I do is being wrong. When somebody tells me I'm wrong, I'm finding it wiser to consider they could be right, and that I'd be well served to reexamine my view.

That's how I've learned some of my most valuable lessons here.

So, if you see me looking at the thrown gauntlet and leaving it where it lies, that's not a "kindler, gentler Greg" at work; that's Greg trying to learn from the criticism.

When it comes down to learning things here, I learn with the best, from the best.

...From the rest of you folks here...

Greg

Greg, you may appreciate this Richard Needham quote.

[h=1]“Strong people make as many and as ghastly mistakes as weak people. The difference is that strong people admit them, laugh at them, learn from them. That is how they become strong.”[/h]

 

[Greg Langelius *]

What some allude to as my wisdom is simply the result of a long line of experience here, and of a long list of mistakes made and recovered from. I screw up enough, eventually even I am going to come away with some benefit. Most of what you read from me is not much more than a restatement of the evolving consensus, and all it really proves is that I have a longer memory than I ever expected to have at my advanced age..

This topic alludes to change, but in truth all web sites evolve. No question, The 'Hide has changed, sometimes for the better, but not always; but neither option is exclusive to this place. I think more can be gained by reversing the basic premise, and asking where it is we forum members would like this continuing evolution to go.

I think many, many of us are somewhat uneasy with policy at times, that's inevitable. One could bail, but really, there is no better place to bail to.

One could jump onto the soapbox and wail, but that's just dumb; and besides, it's disrespectful of LL, who has a lot invested in this place, does a good job of shielding us from the consequences of our own rash impulses, and has the upper hand for reasons that are plainly obvious.

I know personally the consequences of going postal and spitting in LL's eye. I have even been banned for life, and only a reasoned (and private between LL and I) plea on my own part stands between me and the ultimate enforcement of that ban. I have a narrow path that I may walk, and I am totally committed to it. I am comfortable with this path.

I am positive that many remain reticent here despite misgivings regarding the admonitions against the posting of political thought. At first blush they seem to think such postings are right and proper. On further reflection, I think the current policy is a reluctant admission that there just isn't any way to implement a means to foster such discussion without engendering rancor and disruption. It's been tried a lot, and like tic tac toe, the only winning strategy is not to play in the first place. Viewing such discussion from both the inside and the outside, I realize that like it or not, this is really the only practical outcome that can be realistic on a public site that tries to do what we do. Some goals are inspiring, but equally impractical. If that kind of inspiration is indispensable for some, there are myriad other sites upon which to experience such inspiration. Like it or not, however reluctantly, I have chosen bite the bullet and move on.

There's more to life than just political discussion, and in my dotage I am finding out that a life with less of it is/can be surprisingly tolerable. I may even grow to like it. YMMV.

Greg

 

[TOP PREDATOR]

^^^

see what i mean? I nominate that man for a write in campaign for the White House in '16 on the "owl party" ticket.

glad you took the term "wise" in it's classic sense as having wisdom and not as "cracking wise".

....now 'nough of the warm and fuzzies, - back to the wrastlin' match, got a full bowl of popcorn.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Owl Party...

That's cool; I like it!

LOL!

Greg

 

[Emergencynrse]

This thread has certainly gone all over the place. Serves to say that the Hide has changed but everything does. Everything!
For those of us that love to shoot, there is still quality information here. You just have to look around.
(Oh, and Hi y'all...)

 

[Darkside-Six]

Some interesting theories in here.

Were I come from, firing from a concealed position does not make you a sniper, it does make you smart......but not necessarly a sniper.

 

[Graham]

How the Hide has changed

Schopenhauer said that while talent is hitting a target that no one else can hit; genius is hitting a target that no one else can see.

....One of the reasons why drone strikes require more than just talent. LOL!

 

[badshot338]

That is because you are too fucking stupid to realize there is a custom search available and 3/4 of the information is still here.

But then again, it's the internet you have to expect a certain amount of stupid even when the information is staring them in the face.

...wow...

 

[bluto77]

I've learned whole helluva lot about long range/precision shooting on here. Lurked for about 6 months, then joined and started posting last year. I started off as a guy with a Rem 700 .308 and SWFA scope, and I thought I had dropped some serious coin on it when I bought it. I had no idea what I was in store for. Great website. Love the sport (yes...it is a sport to me). Not a sniper. Just a guy that loves the challenge of hitting a small target a long way out there. Not sure about the changes, but it does seem to have calmed down a bit since when I first started lurking. Looking forward to continuing to learn here.

 

[catswithguns]

Bluto, I'm right there with ya. The problem with this or any other "fun" sport or hobby, it can very easily turn into a job. It is a great place to realize how much you don't know about this type of shooting and it has a plethora of super cool toys to buy.

 

[Longrange****]

Holy hell, I didn't expect to come back to this! LOL I'm glad to see at least SOME of the mud slinging is still here. That was half the fun of this place. I'm glad to see some of the other old timers are still around. Shank you still have it brother LOL. Alot has changed since I lurked back from 2001 and printed off Greg's articles on shooting (yes I still have them somewhere Greg).

Since I was on here last we had baby girl #3 and I've sold a number of my rifles but I still have a few. Priorities change and dust is a good motivator.

I was going to ask what happened to diaper boy but I see he is back. NOBODY.....God that guy cracked me up. He and I have had our verbal incidents a few times but I still enjoyed his version of reality. There was one BIG fight we got into but I can't for the life of me remember what it was....

 

[Cartman]

Hell Longrange, who didn't get in an argument with Nobody? One of the best parts about that guy was he could have an entire five page thread against him and he wouldn't budge.

 

[Longrange****]

Hell Longrange, who didn't get in an argument with Nobody? One of the best parts about that guy was he could have an entire five page thread against him and he wouldn't budge.

Hahahaha no he wouldn't ,it was funny a hell watching him defend his position, I honestly had no problem with the guy....kinda enjoyed the back and forth shit. He was just one if those guys that would "poke the sleeping bear" just to argue with it......or just to see what kind of balls it had to defend its opinion.

I'm happy to see some of you guys, Bolt, Switch,1911, Greg, Rob......its good to see ya here. Is Mike Hull still around?

 

[Maser]

LOL! Yeah, Nobody sure was quite the character for sure around here. He still shows up every now and then over at 24 Hour Campfire. What ever happened to CKA?

 

[Maggot]

LOL! Yeah, Nobody sure was quite the character for sure around here. He still shows up every now and then over at 24 Hour Campfire. What ever happened to CKA?

CKA is alive and well on Facebook. He post as Josh Ruby...or North Texas Rifle Precision.

In place of Nobody we have Pawprint.

Hasn't changed all that much.

 

[Graham]

How the Hide has changed

In place of Nobody we have Pawprint.

Except that Larry was witty, and knew what he was talking about. Apart from that they are similar in some ways.

 

[medicjim]

NOBODY.....God that guy cracked me up. He and I have had our verbal incidents a few times but I still enjoyed his version of reality.

I'll have to agree with you there…that guy posted some incredible pictures. I added the Alaska wilderness to my bucket list mostly because of his pics.

It's like old home week here, so many of the original folks coming out of the woodwork. I hope you are all healthy and happy… have a great Thanksgiving

Jim

 

[Maggot]

Except that Larry was witty, and knew what he was talking about. Apart from that they are similar in some ways.

True, no one will ever accuse the Paw of being 'witty'.

 

[OptedOut]

I only get on here for a week of two a few times a year and my enjoyment comes from the comedy factor of some posters (or for a better term posers) and all there knowledge!

 

[Graham]

my enjoyment comes from the comedy factor of some posters (or for a better term posers) and all there knowledge!

It's: "all THEIR knowledge."
?

 

[OptedOut]

It's: "all THEIR knowledge."
��

Unless it all 'their' knowledge because they've been 'there' and supposedly "done that"!
It's a verse - visa thing.
We must be adherent pupils of spellynge.

 

[kmussack]

I'm....still..cough!...cough!.....here.........

 

[Greg Langelius *]

About my old articles; I asked if it would be OK to repost them, and got the 'K from LL. Unfortunately, I had forgotten they were on another computer that had been given to my Daughter's household, and my current one has no Word or Excel. I just bought a text editor and spreadsheet package that will work with the files, but as luck would have it, my Daughter had purged them.

Be that as it may, I have learned a lot (mostly from the rest of The 'Hide) since 2001, much of it contrary to a lot of what was in my first versions of those articles; so they would have needed to be rewritten anyway. It was easier back then when I 'knew it all' than either my advanced decrepitude, or my failing attention span (that heart attack back in 2004 did a number on my mental gymnastics aptitude, and with 18 meds taken daily, sometimes I'm a real mess, hence my tendency to be a morning poster) would have one believe.

Nevertheless, I do believe it is a task that must be done anyhoo.

As Yoda says, "Not try; do...".

Yoda's no dummy... (Not in the physical sense, anyway...).

Greg

 

[lash]

I've been following this thread with a chuckle in my head. Sorta like a kid watching the old guys hanging out at the local general store, sitting at the pickle barrel and remembrin' when times were good and opinin' as to how the whole world has gone to heck in a hand basket...

Not that I'm any different than all ya'all, it's just that I haven't been here long enough to partake of the memories.

 

[netranger6]