How to "Drive" a Semi-Auto?

[Phil3]

I frequently read that semi-autos are harder to shoot than a bolt action, and one has to learn how to shoot the semi. I would love to learn how to better "drive" the semi-auto...but how? What am I to watch for, improve on, change. or...? This pertain to a 223 AR15 and 308 AR10.

- Phil

 

[Badshot308]

Re: How to "Drive" a Semi-Auto?

Best way I can describe it is you need to be more consistant in everything you do with the AR. A bolt action has only one recoil pulse when fired. An AR has three. The first being the recoil pulse genreated by the bullet being propelled down the barrel. Same as any rifle. The secound is the mass of the BCG moving backward as the action unlocks. The bullet may still be in the bore as this happens, can't tell you for certain on that. Third recoil pulse is when the buffer spring pushes the BCG forward. The bullet has exited at that point. If you're holding the AR inconsistantly, that second recoil pulse that's not present in a bolt gun, may effect your accuracy, especially at longer ranges. AR's are a much taller platform than a bolt rifle. The balance is different and you may find yourself canting or torquing the rifle more during the shot and not realizing it. An AR has a swinging hammer vs a staightline firing pin of bolt gun. The ignition time of a model 700 is much faster than the AR's hammer. Might not be that much a problem shooting from a sand bagged rifle rest, but in the field, shooting from a less than perfect position, the extra tiny movement in the rifle as fires can make a difference. TRigger pull on an AR is much longer and heavier than you can get away with on a bolt gun. If you try to adjust an AR trigger the way you can a bolt gun, very light, minimal sear engagement, no over travel, and you have a full auto bumpfire session real fast. So because of all this, you need to concentrate more with the AR platform on being consistant with holding, trigger pull, follow through, pretty much all the fundamentals.

 

[Drifter™]

Re: How to "Drive" a Semi-Auto?

Steer with the front hand when shooting from sandbags. Trigger hand shouldn't be used to adjust / maintain sight picture.

Apply same pressure with front hand each time, for both controlling the rifle under recoil, and pressure to the rear (stock against shoulder).

You want the rifle to recoil in the same manner each shot. If it recoils differently, such as muzzle moving in slightly different direction, you can usually count on a POI shift.

You'll learn to call your shots before checking the target, based on the way the rifle reacts, assuming that you have an accurate setup to begin with.

 

[Badshot308]

Re: How to "Drive" a Semi-Auto?

Oh, don't forget the fuzzy dice hanging from the scope. Necessary when driving a 308 AR but optional for the 223...

 

[pupdawg]

Re: How to "Drive" a Semi-Auto?

Semi auto's are bitches, they whine and fuss if they don't get their way.

As was said earlier consistency is important and a gas gun will definitely tell you when you're "falling asleep" at the wheel.

Most importantly remember that what you do before the trigger breaks doesn't really matter. It's what your doing WHEN the trigger breaks and shortly after that counts. I know this sounds corny and gay but it happens. Shooter gets all comfy with their position and double checks everything. Trigger breaks and at that same exact moment he twitches a muscle or squeezes the grip (flinch). He throws that shot. He might be able to get away with that on a bolt gun but the semi auto, no way.

Dry fire when you can.

 

[Redmanss]

Re: How to "Drive" a Semi-Auto?

The fundamentals are the same, just less forgiving. Your position's body alignment, natural point of aim, trigger control and follow through just need to be dead on. I place the biggest focus on follow through for shooters transitioning over from bolt actions as it needs to be exaggerated for maximum effectiveness.

Here's a good thread on the subject too:
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2559922

 

[Graham]

Re: How to "Drive" a Semi-Auto?

You have to be different on the trigger, and uncompromising on the follow-through.

 

[RicosRevenge]

Re: How to "Drive" a Semi-Auto?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Drifter_1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You'll learn to call your shots before checking the target...</div></div>
Dang right and true of any firearm, golf, basketball, etc... with consistent practice. One thing that will help immensely if you have the opportunity is to have a knowledgable person critique you with the understanding that they may break your technique down completely. If you do not have that luxury, the SH instruction or a DVD used in conjunction with a mirror will help as well similar to having your golf swing analyzed.

 

[997/2man]

Re: How to "Drive" a Semi-Auto?

I'm getting ready to "drive" my JP LRP-07. Prob. one of the best S.A. triggers in the biz. I didn't "get" JP's at 1st, now the LRP and my Viking Tactics are two of my favorite AR platform rifles. They shoot like lasers, are well built and the finish, inside and out, is top tier. Fine rifles I "drive " often.

 

[Phil3]

Re: How to "Drive" a Semi-Auto?

These responses made me realize something. I had forgotten that some time ago, I let my 25 year old daughter shoot my 223 AR15 for the first time. Her only other rifle experience was a Ruger 10/22. She fired two 100 yard five shot group off the bipod to get used to the AR, shooting groups of 1" or less. Then she said she was comfortable with the rifle and was going for a small group. She fired four shots, all holes overlapping, with the fifth way off after she nudged the trigger too soon. I asked what she did. She said the same thing she does in archery. Consistent body position, execuing the shot at the same point in breathing, holding her position for a second after firing, same pressure of stock into shoulder, and smooth trigger operation. She said, "doing the same thing, the same way, every time". She relayed that her archery instructor said the equipment will generally do the same thing every time, variances come from the operator operating the equipment.


- Phil

 

[karux408]

Re: How to "Drive" a Semi-Auto?

Phil, smart girl. she has been trained well, and remembers.

 

[battlestick]

Re: How to "Drive" a Semi-Auto?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">uncompromising on the follow-through. </div></div>

The follow through is what "drives" the auto-loader. Concentrate on loading your bipod "twice as much" as your bolt gun in order to "drive" it.

The recoil on a bolt gun is an "impulse", the recoil on an auto-loader is a "ride" - meaning you have to be into the gun enough to "ride" it out and "drive" it.

Edited Syntax.

 

[pupdawg]

Re: How to "Drive" a Semi-Auto?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: battlestick</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">uncompromising on the follow-through. </div></div>

The follow through is what "drives" the auto-loader. <span style="color: #FF0000">Concentrate on loading your bipod "twice as much" as your bolt gun in order to "drive" it.</span>

The recoil on a bolt gun is an "impulse", the recoil on an auto-loader is a "ride" - meaning you have to be into the gun enough to "ride" it out and "drive" it.

Edited Syntax. </div></div>

I agree with everything except whats highlighted in red.

It's true you load the bipod but that is not what constitutes the term "follow through" alone.

Putting extra load on the bipod when shooting a semi is not needed. If it works for you then that's great, but it has nothing to do with basic fundamentals or follow through.

What about when I shoot my AR10 off of a front bag? There's no bipod to load. It should shoot the same as when I have a bipod on there loaded or not. It's me that manages the recoil and controls the shot not the bipod, not the front rest.

The bipod is either loaded or its not. If its loaded its either loaded inconsistently or consistently. The latter will result in better shots downrange.

Given you do all the basics properly the most important aspects of shooting a gas gun is the follow through of those basics and consistency in executing the whole process.

Concentrate on fundamental consistency and follow through, thats what it comes down to when "driving", otherwise you're "falling asleep at the wheel" so to speak. Hope this helps.

 

[Dontmiss0311]

Re: How to "Drive" a Semi-Auto?

I've just expirenced the different "ride" and it is true that shooting an AR platform is more difficult than a bolt gun. I just started shooting a RRA LAR 8 Varmint as a precision rifle after shooting a Sig SSG 3000. The Sig I could do 1/2 MOA all day long. I've got several 1/2 MOA groups with the Rock River, but with flyers that opened the groups to 1 - 1 1/2 MOA. The more I shoot the Rock River, the more I can tell when the trigger breaks if it's going to be a flyer (I'm starting to see it's me and not the rifle). Just like everyone else has stated it does take a lot more concentration and the AR IS less forgiving. Not to start another topic, but I do believe an AR platform can be just as accurate as a bolt gun - it's just more difficult on the shooter's part.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: How to "Drive" a Semi-Auto?

My semi is a Garand, and the only thing I really do consciously differently is to make sure I pull the trigger all the way through the disengagement point to the stop. Babying the trigger with the Garand/M14/M1A can frequently result in doubling.

Greg

 

[kraigWY]

Re: How to "Drive" a Semi-Auto?

I drive trucks, I ride motorcycles. <span style="font-weight: bold">I SHOOT RIFLES</span>

Shooting a gas gun is no different then shooting bolt guns only there is a bit less flopping around.

A good position will let you recover from recoil, in bolt guns the "recoil time" is used to work the bolt, again, a good position will allow you to fall back in postition to return to your natural point of aim.