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How to not be a tool...

BLAKSUNZ

Private
Minuteman
Jul 20, 2011
0
0
35
Oxford, MS
First I want to state I've been shooting rifles and shotguns since I was 5 so I'm not new to firearms. I'm very safe and strict about safety and won't go shooting without anyone a second time if they continue to muzzle me, finger on the trigger, ect. more than once.

That being said, there seems to be a split across the internet about "appearances." What I am referring to is the trend of newer and/or experienced shooters buying chest rigs or padded molle belts to carry rifle/pistol mags, lights, knife, multitool, ect.

When I see this kind of gear I think "That is an efficient way to carry the above mentioned for the way I like to shoot i.e. on the move." However, what I usually see is bashing of people/members who use these systems and are not in (or have been affiliated) with the military or law enforcement.

I am not in the military. I'm an engineer. As an engineer I think systematically and to me these load bearing options seem like a good way to carry the above mentioned. I practice shooting on move, from cover, ect. because I want to further my skills as a shooter. I do not wear (or own yet for that matter) this gear to pretend I'm an "operator" or because I saw it on call of duty (which I don't...I sold my xbox because I spent more time playing video games than going out and shooting).

I train to become a MARKSMAN.

I'm not ranting or trolling I just want to get some thoughts and opinions from those of you who are more experienced than myself about the subject. Maybe you have some thoughts on better ways to carry the items mentioned without looking so "tactical."

I do not believe that everyone who wears this type of gear is a tool trying to pretend he is an operator. I may not have served in the military but I grew up in a town surrounded by a Naval ship yard and and Airforce base so 90% of my friends and their parents are military or LE. I have HUGE respect for those who serve and some days regret not joined myself (I personally think we should have mandatory service for XXXX years like Israel).

Maybe that got a little winded so let's recap:

1) Everyone doesn't have to be a tool though I admit that the majority says otherwise.

2) Everyone doesn't pretend/believe that he/she is or has what it takes to be an operator (again the above applies to the majority says otherwise).

3) Using web gear could be/is a viable option for carrying ammo, light, multitool, knife, ect when one practices shooting on the move and from varying positions other than offhand/bench at a range.

4) Is there a word that is used in the gun community to describe people who DO take it too seriously and pretend? In the bike world we call them "squids" and with cars we call them "rice burners." Maybe "mall ninja?"
 
Re: How to not be a tool...

I don't own a chest rig or a duty belt. I don't really see it as an issue if one does own them. I do however think it looks kind of odd wearing full gear and just sitting on the line at the range. If you're going to wear them, then use them for their intended purposes. Most I know who own them shoot matches where you're on the move. Outside of that just get yourself a large pack from Maxpedition or other reputable manufacturer to throw your gear in.
 
Re: How to not be a tool...

Dude i have a chest rig and a few things attached to, that doesn't make me a mall ninja. The whole thing I'm doing is making a hobby to fill my spare time and even prepare for something unforeseeable. Nothing wrong with that no mall ninja, troll or tacticool BS about it. the only time i will bash someone on a chestrig is when they have zombie hunter, stupid stciker and patches, Machetes, axes, all plain black (nothing in the natural enviroment is pure black so not doin any good), useless other shit all over it.

I someone calls me a mall ninja, i dont have to explain myself since they dont know what i am like. Hell even lowlight had one on in a video review with the back up sight for the AR. It's all how it is set up to be used.

If anyone gonna bash on me, then fine i can take it, not gonna hold my tongue and not post what i believe.
 
Re: How to not be a tool...

Well I'll try and give you my opinion and address your inquiry. I am LE and have various web set ups for different applications. They are strictly used for those applications.

You mention that you train to become a Marksman. As a former LE instructor I can assure you that you don't need to be wearing web gear to become a Marksman. It will not enhance your ability nor skills in training for marksmanship skills. And if you inadvertently get all tricked out to go to the range for that purpose, I would venture to say you will come under scrutiny.

Now lets take it one step further! During your journey in Marksmanship training you become involved in Competition, then your training for Competition should involve the gear necessary for adequately competing in that event. If it's Tactical competition then yes you should train like you compete.

I certainly don't wear my competition gear every time I train or practice my marksmanship skills, but when I'm focusing on an upcoming event I will deploy my gear so that it becomes part of the preparation for the event.

In training part of the LE qualification process is wearing the Duty gear applicable to that officer. Road Deputy would be required to wear his daily duty gear. Special Ops, SORT, are required to wear their assigned task Gear.

I believe if you use your gear specifically for the task at hand, ie; training for a competitive event!! then I doubt others would deem you a tool. However if you appear as a "Range Ninja" when you casually practice your Marksmanship skills, then I would highly recommend you be prepared for some humility.

Hope this sheds some light on your inquiry!!

Cheers!
 
Re: How to not be a tool...

The only time I have snickered about people wearing tactical type gear is when they are using it improperly... that's a sign it's used more for visual effect and role playing then practical use. Different folks & different situations have different needs. If you live and play in an urban environment, tell me why you should be spending money on field gear instead of good equipment for concealed carry and training specific to your environment ? Preparedness is a good reason to experiment and familiarize... but shouldn't be the focus of your entire range experience.

I generally feel a guy out and if I get the vibe he's sincere I'll help him square away his gear and perhaps even his head.
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Develop what's important first guys... then move on to the other stuff.

Firearms and tactical gear were tools of my trade for most of 30 years. Ask any military type or competent LEO "with" tactical experience, they'll tell you what works, what doesn't and why. Cops and soldiers are diverse... not everyone likes tactical stuff or even firearms. Most of us who like the stuff like it for various reasons... an edge in a serious social encounter is normally highest on the list. Meaning survival. The next reasons often are comfort and ergonomics...
 
Re: How to not be a tool...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dagsta</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

You mention that you train to become a Marksman. As a former LE instructor I can assure you that you don't need to be wearing web gear to become a Marksman. It will not enhance your ability nor skills in training for marksmanship skills. And if you inadvertently get all tricked out to go to the range for that purpose, I would venture to say you will come under scrutiny.



</div></div>

I completely agree with this statement. No, I would never wear that kind of gear at the range because a range (to me) is a place where I must shoot while stationary and therefore must work on accuracy and reloads more than moving around, ect.

And yes I am aware that the gear (or weapon for that matter) does not make one a better marksman. What I mean by marksman is someone who is well rounded in many disciplines of shooting and can do more with a firearm than simply hitting a paper target while standing still, on a beautiful sunny day, in the shade of a covered shooting lane...
 
Re: How to not be a tool...

Then I'm thinking you will do just fine. When you get yourself to a point that you want to compete, get the bare minimum and go. You will learn and see what others use, and apply successfully.

You will make much better choices getting into your setup that way.

I meant no disrespect in my statement you quoted above, merely responding to your reference to the "tool" issue.

Good Luck in your journey!!
 
Re: How to not be a tool...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dagsta</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I meant no disrespect in my statement you quoted above, merely responding to your reference to the "tool" issue.

Good Luck in your journey!! </div></div>

None taken. I freely admit I don't know as much as the more experienced so it helps to listen and learn from those who know more.

Thanks for the answers guys.
 
Re: How to not be a tool...

This is easy...just don't give a shit what people think. Others will pick up on this vibe and not assume you are a poser.

I compete in tactical comps. My gear is designed to work for this. I use a padded belt with magazines, LRF, binos, kestral and a dump/utility pouch on it. When I do go to a public range, I wear my belt because that's where all my stuff is. If someone at the range thinks I am a mall ninja, I don't give a shit.
 
Re: How to not be a tool...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gugubica</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I compete in tactical comps. My gear is designed to work for this. I use a padded belt with magazines, LRF, binos, kestral and a dump/utility pouch on it. When I do go to a public range, I wear my belt because that's where all my stuff is. If someone at the range thinks I am a mall ninja, I don't give a shit.</div></div>

That pretty much sums up my feelings on the issue although I don't wear my SO Tech belt at the range.
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Re: How to not be a tool...

You've stumbled upon an aspect of human nature: People dressing-up like other people in order to tout their individuality.

Just ask any 'individual' in his Chinese-made leather motorcycle vest and assless chaps, riding a motorcycle like everyone else's motorcyle: He will tell you that he's a 'free American', if only on the weekends, and that his 'Bike' is 'custom' because he bolted-on a pre-fabricated chrome accessory.

And don't assume that posing stops at the LE/MIL door: It doesn't.

Perhaps Timothy Findlay said it best: That girls dress-up to impress men, but boys dress-up for each other.

That said, I encourage people to have fun. If some people have fun by dressing up in tactical gear, then as long as they don't want to hurt anyone I say have at it. The freedoms we enjoy include the freedom to dress-up in costume, whether the costume is clothing, rank, authority, or position.
 
Re: How to not be a tool...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You've stumbled upon an aspect of human nature: People dressing-up like other people in order to tout their individuality.

Just ask any 'individual' in his Chinese-made leather motorcycle vest and assless chaps, riding a motorcycle like everyone else's motorcyle: He will tell you that he's a 'free American', if only on the weekends, and that his 'Bike' is 'custom' because he bolted-on a pre-fabricated chrome accessory.

And don't assume that posing stops at the LE/MIL door: It doesn't.

Perhaps Timothy Findlay said it best: That girls dress-up to impress men, but boys dress-up for each other.

That said, I encourage people to have fun. If some people have fun by dressing up in tactical gear, then as long as they don't want to hurt anyone I say have at it. The freedoms we enjoy include the freedom to dress-up in costume, whether the costume is clothing, rank, authority, or position. </div></div>

An Canuck talking about freedom...I scoff...
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(hope to see you in WV brother!)
 
Re: How to not be a tool...

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Re: How to not be a tool...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 19Scout77</div><div class="ubbcode-body">An Canuck talking about freedom...I scoff...
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(hope to see you in WV brother!) </div></div>I see that you caught the reference to Canadian author Timothy Findlay.
wink.gif
 
Re: How to not be a tool...

I am prior service and yes I have web gear set up. Do I wear it hardly ever, no. I shoot regularly but tend to just use a backpack for my gear. The web gear is there if I need it, if I ever shoot competitions I am sure it will get used. I suppose it falls in the "Be Prepared" category, for whatever comes up. Do what your comfortable with, try not to let your wife laughing at you distract your shooting, and definitely try to avoid the "why do we need this" conversation.
 
Re: How to not be a tool...

all im saying is that you dont need to wear a shemagh every time you go to your local shooting range like it makes you range tactical or some thing. this tacticool stuff is getting out of hand, if it works and you need it ok but most people i see are just out of control tacticool while they shoot their 3 inch 100 yard group. i swear one of these days im gonna see some dunbass at the range wearing one of those cabelas ghiilie suits and im be rolling on the ground with laughter
 
Re: How to not be a tool...

I took a bit of flak for using it at the 'Cup this year, especially from some serious 'operators', but I'm not giving up my Hello Kitty ammo pouch.

Definately not! Never.
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Re: How to not be a tool...

Holy fuck that video was awesome. The least they could do is buy gear that fits and practice reloads here and there. Love the guys look when he fires the scatter for the first time.
 
Re: How to not be a tool...

Awesome vid. I definitely gathered some important knowledge/skills watching it.

As far as the gear question; if you are that concerned over how people will judge you, you are not wearing it for the right reasons.
 
Re: How to not be a tool...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: vkc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Let you shooting do the talking. The rest comes from necessity, get and use the gear you need. </div></div>Hello Kitty does my talking for me (and she has no mouth).
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Re: How to not be a tool...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I took a bit of flak for using it at the 'Cup this year, especially from some serious 'operators', but I'm not giving up my Hello Kitty ammo pouch.

Definately not! Never.
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</div></div>

That would go great with my 300WM stock!
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Re: How to not be a tool...

fat guy in a little vest!!!!!

that was awesome you should package that video with the dildo who shot himself in leg and sell the shit out of it!
 
Re: How to not be a tool...

To each his or her own, adaptation of military/LE gear happens sometimes just because it works, it's tried and true so to speak. Personally I don't engage in much of the tacticool lifestyle because some of it's just extra crap I don't need and in competition less is better most of the time. I come from a mostly USPSA background where if you show up for a match in even camo pants you'll probably be asked go home and change since we weren't looking to project that image, but more of a sporty thing, that varies from club to club.

However in a lot of IDPA matches near me we have military and LE guys that gear up and that is highly encouraged since they have train how they fight and everyone is very supportive of that. We get a huge kick out of it when one legit operator guy mozambiques every target, regardless of what the course description calls for, more power too him and woe to an enemy that crosses his path. Then...we have the occasional "squirrel", that's we what call these guys that get carried away since they tend to have a bit of the "squirrel factor". They are playing dress up, no other way to describe it. One guy at a tactical rifle match in KY last year had every piece of kit/uniform he could find and I was assuming he was military getting some practice before he went over to the desert but the more I heard him talk the more he seemed off. Then a former military buddy noticed his gear didn't quite match, patches were wrong and even inappropriate as he was wearing a USMC patch he clearly hadn't earned. Big mistake. Someone challenged him, asked him if he was wearing his halloween costume, and called him out a bit. It was pretty uncomfortable for a few moments while a squad of pretty heavily armed people waited to see if this guy was going to go postal. Fortunately he just kind of mumbled something and slinked away. Let them wear whatever they want, it gives me an opportunity to avoid them if I don't know them when I pick which squad I'm going to line up for...also, they always suck and have poor gun handling skills.
 
Re: How to not be a tool...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
That pretty much sums up my feelings on the issue although I don't wear my SO Tech belt at the range.
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</div></div>

Oh come on....I know I've seen pics somewhere......
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Re: How to not be a tool...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BiggerStick47</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There's a lot of SEXY in this pic........

2s9rsrr.jpg
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BUT, there's a lot of FAIL in that video...
 
Re: How to not be a tool...

Intersting topic.

I have a DTA SRS and am about to try it in the hills for some deer. Sure it's on the heavy side but it points well and I'm happy to do it because i like the fitness side of hunting as much as the hunting itself. The majority of guys are more worried about the hunting side of things and want super light rifles. In other words my rifle may look out of place in that environment. At the range its just another high end practical rifle.

The best way to silence any critics is to be better than them. If i can shoot my DTA better than them at the range (prone and freehand) and also hike the mountains with it then there is nothing to criticise.

Chest rigs arent really that common down here because we dont have Semi's and dont chew through the ammo.
 
Re: How to not be a tool...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
That pretty much sums up my feelings on the issue although I don't wear my SO Tech belt at the range.
wink.gif
</div></div>

Oh come on....I know I've seen pics somewhere......
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P1010360.jpg

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Rob, I'm so disappointed in you. I'm going to PM Frank about this and he's going to make you turn in your Moderator card!
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Concerning the topic. It matters more that you don't look like a jackass on youtube, with something that shankster threw out, pawing all over you, pretending to pose like a Bond girl.

All the while a fried chicken stain on the guys shirt, along with sweat, is slowly combining molecularly with the vest that he'll eventually sell on the Hide after he makes 100 short, stupid, one-worded posts strictly in the for sale section, and bumping for sale ads over 2 years old.
 
Re: How to not be a tool...

The obvious answer is far from obvious for those who haven't gone and done.

robocop.jpg

This game of robocop, loaded to the gills with crap strapped on everywhere, shooting mag after mag in the middle of open ground trains you for what exactly?

I mean how did it work out for robocop?
HINT:
robocop2-04.jpg
 
Re: How to not be a tool...

I say learn how to shoot from far enough away that you can wear any friggin thing you want . Hell if your good enough you don't even have to spray bomb a perfectly good weapon to "fit in"
 
Re: How to not be a tool...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BiggerStick47</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are a lot of <span style="text-decoration: line-through">SEXY</span> <span style="font-weight: bold">Krispy Kreme</span> runs in this pic........
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</div></div>
 
Re: How to not be a tool...

I don't see the use of wearing web gear at the range unless you just want attention. The stuff tends to inhibit your stance more than anything. Wearing camo to the range is sort of silly as well, as is wearing it in public because you think it's stylish... However, the stuff is really useful when you are hiking across terrain and need to keep things separated and quiet. Canteen, knife/multi-tool, scalpels, rubber gloves, couple of mags, fire starter, maybe a protein bar, etc. Especially the protein bars, damn wrappers are crinkly. Backpacks tend to let things knock together and alert nearby game of your position whereas a modular utility belt keeps everything secured for the most part.
 
Re: How to not be a tool...

Holy fuck that video was awesome. The least they could do is buy gear that fits and practice reloads here and there. Love the guys look when he fires the scatter for the first time.
/quote]

Hehaaa , I was cracking up watching that. I really like the combat halter tops these guys are sporting, very menacing. Lots of exposed belly, they need body armor extension kits. Made me want to go for a run.

I can see some tactical gear at the range if you are moving and shooting in a tactical training manner where gear is useful or in a tac type competition . If you are wearing web gear and sitting at the bench you are a poser of the highest order.
 
Re: How to not be a tool...

Jason those pics were for commercial purposes to show the gear. Not how I actually shoot at home.
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Lunchbox that is SO Tech mag pouches and gear.
 
Re: How to not be a tool...

Use the gear for what it was meant for. If you need it because you are mobile or because you "train as you fight", you are no tool. If you are decked out at the local range, sitting on a bench behind rifle, you may want to rethink your wardrobe. All the high speed wizardry in the world won't help breathing, sight-picture, position and trigger squeeze. But it will help you get to that next magazine or switch to a secondary weapon. It is all about necessity.
 
Re: How to not be a tool...

I have a full LBV with all I need If I ever need to grad it and rifle Run like hell with all I need in one grab.I use/Train with it to make sure it's built to my needs and durability before I may actualy need it for extending my life force.

I have a private Range and do most of my LBV use at Night and No one is there to see it or me.

LBV/VESTED in public is like walking around with a Rubber on your dick sticking out at others,Unless your at an Orgy you may get some odd looks and words,Works much better to keep it out of sight untill you actualy need to use it..
 
Re: How to not be a tool...

It's a guy thing. We all have it in our minds that whatever we do, we're the best at and that most everyone else around us that is attempting the same, is a tool. Only when we get to know those around us do we loosen up on that line of thinking, and then only for those individuals we have deemed to be "worthy".

It's a mindset. I doubt anyone will change. Use what you find to be effective and work at becoming better at what you enjoy doing. Everyone else can continue to be a legend in their own mind...
 
Re: How to not be a tool...

Its just not me and as long as they control themselves, have at it I guess.

A handful of times a year I will see someone at the range wearing an LBV and sometimes much more. Dont mean to sterotype, but they normally have a cheap m4 clone, butt loads of fully loaded 30 rounders hanging off them (even though we have a 5 round limit at the high power range) and every nc star accessory they can attach to that puppy.
Ah what the hell, why not? I have helped many of them zero as they are also newbies AND new club members. They are normally just all 2nd amend stoked and did not take time to just come out a few times to see the rhythm of the place and read the club rules. Working with them is a good way to get them to chill out, help them to be safe AND empty the mags to the club limit. I will say most end up taking the vests off pretty quickly. Also, I dont see them wear it when I see them again at the range.

For me, once you hit the woods or get into competition, mil gear rules, provided it applies. You can not beat mil gear the dependability and flexability for the dollars spent.