Hunting & Fishing Hunting w/Match Bullets

[918v]

In this thread:

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...547-berger-185gr-juggernaut-deer-results.html

the OP put a fist-sized hole through his deer using a Berger 185gr match bullet. Said it dropped the deer instantly.

What is the wounding mechanism of a match bullet with a thin jacket? Is it the expansion caused by fluid tissue entering the hollow point? Is it the thin bullet tip collapsing onto itself and a resulting mushroom? Or is it the tumbling action of a long bullet losing stability in tissue?

I have no experience in this area but think the hollow point is way too small to effect expansion. That leaves the collapse of the bullet nose and/or tumbling.

Does anyone really know? I think the reason the OP was successful is because his deer was small and his bullet was huge, kinda like shooting rabbits with a 45 ACP. Overkill.

Would it work on hogs?

 

[Ridgerunner665]

In this thread:

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...547-berger-185gr-juggernaut-deer-results.html

the OP put a fist-sized hole through his deer using a Berger 185gr match bullet. Said it dropped the deer instantly.

What is the wounding mechanism of a match bullet with a thin jacket? Is it the expansion caused by fluid tissue entering the hollow point? Is it the thin bullet tip collapsing onto itself and a resulting mushroom? Or is it the tumbling action of a long bullet losing stability in tissue?

I have no experience in this area but think the hollow point is way too small to effect expansion. That leaves the collapse of the bullet nose and/or tumbling.

Does anyone really know? I think the reason the OP was successful is because his deer was small and his bullet was huge, kinda like shooting rabbits with a 45 ACP. Overkill.

Would it work on hogs?

Its a combination of all the factors you mentioned...the nose usually folds, breaks off, then the rest of the bullet expands/fragments....and it works much better in magnum calibers....I tried Bergers (175 grain hunting VLD) in the 30-06 for deer, very accurate...but the expansion left a lot to be desired.

Impact velocity needs to be at least 2,000 fps...

I have no idea how they'd do on hogs.



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[jeffbird]

Would it work on hogs?

Yes.

 

[918v]

Was that a head shot?

 

[Pinto45]

Berger has a good reputation for not blowing smoke. Check out the videos on youtube on the Berger youtube channel. Full disclosure--I am a big fan and use them almost exclusively for hand loads that have to go where I point them, but I'm not on the payroll!

BergerBullets - YouTube

 

[jeffbird]

Base of the ear.

 

[redirt78]

In this thread:

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...547-berger-185gr-juggernaut-deer-results.html

the OP put a fist-sized hole through his deer using a Berger 185gr match bullet. Said it dropped the deer instantly.

What is the wounding mechanism of a match bullet with a thin jacket? Is it the expansion caused by fluid tissue entering the hollow point? Is it the thin bullet tip collapsing onto itself and a resulting mushroom? Or is it the tumbling action of a long bullet losing stability in tissue?

I have no experience in this area but think the hollow point is way too small to effect expansion. That leaves the collapse of the bullet nose and/or tumbling.

Does anyone really know? I think the reason the OP was successful is because his deer was small and his bullet was huge, kinda like shooting rabbits with a 45 ACP. Overkill.

Would it work on hogs?

Its a combination of all the factors you mentioned...the nose usually folds, breaks off, then the rest of the bullet expands/fragments....and it works much better in magnum calibers....I tried Bergers (175 grain hunting VLD) in the 30-06 for deer, very accurate...but the expansion left a lot to be desired.

Impact velocity needs to be at least 2,000 fps...

I have no idea how they'd do on hogs.



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The bullet doesn't know what kind of animal and bone it's going through especially if it's not something like a Cape buffalo. It went where he wanted it to go, that is the main reason it worked the way it did. Looks like it destroyed the shoulder and blew bones out of the off side. No doubt they will work on hogs and any other animal on the planet if you put it in the right spot for the situation, in my opinion. No guarantees if your shot placement is off but that goes for any bullet out there.

These are from this year, 18" 308 both right at 250 yards. Both never took another step.

175 SMK through the ears.

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This one was quartering to me, goal was high opposite shoulder which it destroyed.

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The buck was taken in the last 30 minutes of the last day of the season and is feeding my girlfriends family so that was cool. They wanted a doe but this worked out for all of us. Hated to throw away a shoulder but I also didn't want to track him through the jungle thick brush he came out of. Needed to lay him down where he stood.

 

[918v]

That's awesome. Thanks.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Now don't get me wrong.....the Berger dropped the deer nicely (high shoulder, clipped the spine)....but from the looks of the exit, it didn't expand much at all...then maybe I'm just spoiled on Ballistic Tips.

I wasn't considering head shots in my post....nothing wrong with head shots...but they're not my normal thing.

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[redirt78]

I have also seen more than a dozen grown elk shot with 168 SMK high shoulder out to 300 yards and never had to track any of them very far, most not at all but if you shoot enough animals with any bullet, they all will do weird things for no apparent reason every now and then. Barnes TSX, Nosler ballistic tips, Accubonds, VLDs, SMKs, SGKs etc etc etc. The better you place any bullet, the better chance you have of it doing what you need it to do. I have trailed and tracked animals shot with all of the above and just about anytime one was difficult to find, shot placement was not what you'd like it to be.

 

[Nortex]

I've used the Amax the last 2 years with great results on pigs and deer both.

 

[Niles Coyote]

I have used 6 match bullets: three Berger vld's, two Lapua Scenar's and a Hornady A-Max to take 6 mule deer from 125-285 yards in 30cal and/or 6.5mm. All but one drop right where it was hit and the one that ran only made it about 75 yards before expiring. Not bad considering that the guys I hunt with (3) use 150 and/or 165 game kings in a 7mm mag and average 2-3 shots per deer, with as few as one shot and as many as 7 depending on which year and shooter we are talking about... something to be said about shot placement and year long practice, eh!?!

 

[redneckbmxer24]

The berger target bullets actually have a thicker jacket than their hunting bullets do. They have a small cavity inside the tip which helps it start breaking up.

The bullets were definitely expanding or breaking up even in the high shoulder shots. I've shot deer with a lot of bullets and you don't get an exit like that unless the bullet is doing something. Check out the second deer in that thread that was a quartering away shot and look at the exit on it. It penetrated 18"+ of meat and organs, liquified the heart and lungs and still left an exit you could stick two fists into.

The juggernaut is my new 30 cal hunting bullet as well as my match bullet. I see no reason to change either and I can shoot the same load for both.

 

[jeffbird]

308 with 175 SMK through the shoulders at 75 yards.

Exit wound:




Leg removed to show bullet path under spine:

 

[ahhshoot]

Have heard the SMK's and Amax work well for hunting. I have never tried either to be honest.

For what it's worth, I have shot water bottles and milk jugs from 500 yards or so with my 6.5 creedmoor with 139 gr Lapua Scenars. They did not expand one iota. The entry and exit literally looked the exact same.

 

[signal211]

This is something I think about every year. I think black hills might have answered. The black hills gold is something I have found this week and can't wait to get my hands on some and try it. Match ammo with hunting bullets. They are using the AMAX and the Barnes bullets. They also have it in 308 168 gr which is what I am already shooting. Should not be to much to get some new dope and make the switch. Even if the switch is only during winter.

 

[redirt78]

308 with 175 SMK through the shoulders at 75 yards.

Exit wound:

That is exactly what the shoulder looked like on my buck a few days ago with the 175 SMK

 

[acts238]

BERGER 210 hunt vlds fly just a tiny, tiny bit better in most of our rifles
but after hunting with 208 amax last couple years
me and both my sons agree
nothing hits like an amax
drt on 100% of the animals weve taken
granted most were head-neck shots
but I made a shoulder shot just to see what would happen --drt--
lost a lot of meat -wont be doing that again unless there way out there -
shot placement is VERY -IMPORTANT
but I've tried just about all of the premium HUNTING bullets & I've never seen any bullet
that DROPS ANIMALS IN THEIR TRACKS like an AMAX
when they say violent expansion -they mean it

 

[Graywolf.260]

I hate wasting meat. No argument about match ammo being deadly but not what I would want to hunt with unless taking closer range head shots.

 

[Bill Larson]

do a search on this site SMK`s for hunting..... alot of us have had good sucsess with them. I personally have 1 bullet kills on 2 elk..1-5x5 and 2 whitetail both 8 pt.s.

 

[coldboremiracle]

I hate wasting meat.

Then firearms are not for you. Getcha a fletch flicker.

 

[acts238]

Id rather lose a shoulder -than have to track it down
or possibly lose the whole animal
the (test shot) in the shoulder resulted in a grapefruit sized area of meat & bone
being evaporated for lack of a better word
not bruised or bloodshot meat but (missing meat-bone )
heart lung area -was basically bone soup
neck shots with the 208's normally leave a pop can sized wound channel
0 tracking so far with the 208 in last 2 seasons - 3 hunters

 

[5RWill]

I've taken two deer with match bullets. Both DRT. 200+LB buck at 300yds with a Berger 175gr BT LR and a doe around 100yds with a 77gr SMK.

 

[RobertB]

I've lost 3 deer with SMK's Should have known better after the first one but the reason I went on is because I dropped 2 deer with it just before the 3. The 2 we got were crazy damage. The other 3 ran like hell. I wont do that again. Shots were good too. 260- 142 SMK at 300ish.

Swift sciracco from 300WM has been perfect so far though.

Gonna try the AMAX this coming year after hearing all the good new from it.

Good luck, don't be stupid like me and let the deer get away just to see if it works.

 

[Super Bee 950]

I shot around 5 pigs, one multiple times, and every one of them ran off using a 168 Amax. I wont use anything other than FMC or M855 ammo on pigs. I am sure the Amax will work well if the shot placement is perfect, but shooting them at night makes that very difficult.

 

[5RWill]

I've lost 3 deer with SMK's Should have known better after the first one but the reason I went on is because I dropped 2 deer with it just before the 3. The 2 we got were crazy damage. The other 3 ran like hell. I wont do that again. Shots were good too. 260- 142 SMK at 300ish.

Swift sciracco from 300WM has been perfect so far though.

Gonna try the AMAX this coming year after hearing all the good new from it.

Good luck, don't be stupid like me and let the deer get away just to see if it works.

I've actually had three run very far with 105gr VLD hunting bullets @ 2700fps. Beyond me but they 150-200yds into a swamp, it was a bitch to get them. My problem with compensation for hunting bullets and match is i want both benefits. This year i took two deer with my 130gr triple shocks for the first time with my .260, to say i was impressed is an understatement. Both didn't move, both were behind the shoulder heart shots. I check out the BC and it's abysmal, look at their LRX it's better but by 6.5 standards still abysmal i guess it's not too big of a deal within 500yds but still i would like to take a deer with that gun out to 600 or so.

There is always the Amax though, best of both worlds i suppose. So far i love the terminal performance of my TSX(s)

 

[jdulaney]

I shot my hog at 75 yards with a .223 shoot in 75gr hpbt match it was drt. Shot placement

 

[lancetkenyon]

My 11 year old daughter just took her first big game animal, a javelina, on Saturday with a .223 shooting 69 SMKs at 3033fps. Pig was quartering on hard, went 40 yards dragging the back legs. Shot took out the onside lung, spine, and exited the back hip. Entrance was typical .224" pinhole, exit was half dollar sized hole.