This is a nightmare scenario for US Companies. I personally will never buy a Leofoto product again. If I was at RRS I would reach out to all my resellers (specifically the SOAR line) but definately BH Photo as well, and share your concerns and see if you can prevent them selling this crap.
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I F'n despise Leofoto and other Chinese knockoff specialists
- Thread starter mlpkhl
- Start date
Nike manufactured their own disaster when they decided to have their manufacturing done in Asia. I still remember them being hailed as entrepreneurs and gurus for being among the first to "outsource manufacturing" many years ago; in the meantime they "Just Blew It!" What I hate to see is when American companies who pay a decent wage and do their own research and development, manufacturing, and customer service here in the U.S., or Canada have their patents and trademarks ripped off by thugs who fool the customer into buying their knock offs and receive assistance by platforms like Amazon, or Ebay who feign ignorance of the scam. If the Chinese have a product they came up with themselves it's a different story, as with recent consumer oriented priced borescopes which will hopefully inspire domestic competitors to step up their game but this theft of intellectual property, and underbidding the American labor force is costing our countries billions of dollars that are being siphoned off and fed directly into the armament programs that are being used to threaten North America.
Zero tears shed for Nike here. I'll walk barefoot before I put that crap on my feet. Another company that decided to throw in with the social justice warriors and alienate millions of their former customers.
The topper is decrying all their bullshit while their shoes are made in a sweatshop.
R
Yep. I remember seeing a clip from one of that fat ass Michael Moore's films where he interviewed the CEO of Nike. Asked him why he can't make shoes in the USA. His answer was "American's don't want those jobs" or something like that. Real answer, "why would we when we can make a pair of shit shoes in a Chinese sweat shop for $1, then sell them to stupid Americans for $100". Yeah, fuck Nike.
The answer is a bit more nuanced. It is more like "Americans don't want those jobs, for what we are able to pay, for a good that Americans will buy, at a price they will pay, that allows the company to also make a profit worth the effort."
I blame Nike, Walmart, Target, etc. for training Americans to expect shit quality at corresponding prices. Before we outsourced all manufacturing to China and the rest of Asia, stuff was made right here and we paid the prices. Somehow companies 30+ years ago were still able to survive and we were still able to pay for quality.
I think you mean that allows our company to make huge markups for extra corporate bonuses while shafting everybody else down the line........
Every first world market has to decide how much cheap slave-labor goods to allow in. Cheap crap from slave-labor markets easily out-compete domestic market prices, due to the thier comparative advantage in labor costs.
Every government has a tool with which they control cheap imports. They use tariffs to drive the import prices up to competitive levels.
I occasionally spend time in Germany, and see the results of tariffs properly applied. The cheapest stuff tends to be German made. They definitely appear to protect thier automobile industry. Foreign made cars are a much smaller portion of the whole than is here.
Unfortunately for us, our government decided that manufacturing needs to be sacrificed, in order to help other industries, such as farms.
We allow Chinese goods to come in without tariffs, and in exchange China allows American food to be imported without high tariffs. We've basically traded away our manufacturing in exchange for farms.
I live in Northwest Washington near many dairy farms. The farms here are quite happy with the status-quo. They sell every ounce of milk they produce, with most of it going to china.
Our government knows full well about Chinas blatant patent and copyright infringements, and does nothing. For customs inspectors, when they open a container from wang-dong, I imagine that determining which shoes from Guangdong factory x are legit vs which ones from the same factory aren't is a bitch. The government should slap a tariff on all of it, untill it is priced 10% higher that domestically produced shoes.
Our president is pretty sharp when it comes to this kind of stuff. But every time he tries impose tariffs to even the field, Republicans and democrats alike throw a fit and team up to stop him.
Every government has a tool with which they control cheap imports. They use tariffs to drive the import prices up to competitive levels.
I occasionally spend time in Germany, and see the results of tariffs properly applied. The cheapest stuff tends to be German made. They definitely appear to protect thier automobile industry. Foreign made cars are a much smaller portion of the whole than is here.
Unfortunately for us, our government decided that manufacturing needs to be sacrificed, in order to help other industries, such as farms.
We allow Chinese goods to come in without tariffs, and in exchange China allows American food to be imported without high tariffs. We've basically traded away our manufacturing in exchange for farms.
I live in Northwest Washington near many dairy farms. The farms here are quite happy with the status-quo. They sell every ounce of milk they produce, with most of it going to china.
Our government knows full well about Chinas blatant patent and copyright infringements, and does nothing. For customs inspectors, when they open a container from wang-dong, I imagine that determining which shoes from Guangdong factory x are legit vs which ones from the same factory aren't is a bitch. The government should slap a tariff on all of it, untill it is priced 10% higher that domestically produced shoes.
Our president is pretty sharp when it comes to this kind of stuff. But every time he tries impose tariffs to even the field, Republicans and democrats alike throw a fit and team up to stop him.
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The segment Nike offended is so tiny, it wont even count as a segment. The 30s or 40s something year old rural or sub-urban white male that threw a hissy fit when they sided w/ Kap (among other decisions Im not a fan of) can go ahead and stop buying their yearly pair or two of gym shoes, 3 sweat pants and couple of Ts and hoodies in Nike's eyes. It does not matter. Nike is a hero to the teen and 20 something year old males & females who buy dozens of shoes per year, deck out head to toe in workout every day of the week, etc.
I have.
3 carbon golf club shafts (free in the broken pile at the clubhouse where I help manage the whitetail population).
Epoxy .357 cases on the ends after trimming to length with my arrow saw.
Tie together with rubber strips cut from a $6 bicycle innertube.
$10 shooting sticks back when people were paying $80+.
I feel for you on the rip-off artists.
The thing is, we banned tripods on most stages this year for our local match because of cost. We only allow them on the stages where there is zero benefit. We didn't want people to quit showing up because they felt they needed to spend $1500 to be competitive.
As a former Nike guy I can say that you guys are way off target with respect to conditions in the factories making Nike goods. Particularly since they got their dick rightfully stepped on WRT to the child labor issues in the earthly 2000s
Nike has led the industry creating the model for setting compliance expectations for their vendors and making that compliance open to the public.
If you don't like their political stance, fine, don't buy their products.
There is no doubt that sweat shops still exist and are being used by many major product brands.
As for RRS, I'd advise that you prosecute to protect your patents and shame vendors of knockoffs at every opportunity. Have you contacted anyone in the federal govt.?
Nike has led the industry creating the model for setting compliance expectations for their vendors and making that compliance open to the public.
If you don't like their political stance, fine, don't buy their products.
There is no doubt that sweat shops still exist and are being used by many major product brands.
As for RRS, I'd advise that you prosecute to protect your patents and shame vendors of knockoffs at every opportunity. Have you contacted anyone in the federal govt.?
Maybe I should be ashamed — I use leofoto, not because I can’t afford RRS. The 1k savings had allowed me to put my funds into bullets, powder, barrels, and more components to keep me up and running.
My leofoto is abused, it has been for the past two years in the field during match use and even more so as it gets tossed around in the back of my truck while I’m out hunting. There’s never been a thought in my mind that it won’t hold up.
I totally understand the OP’s complaint, it sucks. You have a good idea, it’s copied, and now you lose revenue. This is everywhere and is morally not right. But, the companies that succeed adapt, evolve, and remain successful. In a sense, i kind of look at this like the current optics industry. Most every company is looking to create the best product possible at a price they know will provide their customers with a good cost/quality ratio — with the intention to take business from their competitors. Think Vortex vs Schmidt — who do you think adapted and evolved in this scenario, consequently driving an evolution of affordable sport optics.
I disagree with the OP’s tone and to each their opinion. Reason being, is if I’m a business owner, or a product engineer for a very well known product in the industry, I’m not likely to come to a forum to more or less complain about what his happening to them — with the understanding it’s happening to everyone else also. This comes with much respect, because I do like RRS products, I just can’t find the cost/quality ratio to be justified.
Maybe if I was able to see the markup in RRS products and find that the margins aren’t there to provide customers with a better cost/quality product — then I’d be more understanding.
At the end of the day, adapt and evolve. Continue to innovate. And don’t quit because you know at some point someone is going to copy you.
My leofoto is abused, it has been for the past two years in the field during match use and even more so as it gets tossed around in the back of my truck while I’m out hunting. There’s never been a thought in my mind that it won’t hold up.
I totally understand the OP’s complaint, it sucks. You have a good idea, it’s copied, and now you lose revenue. This is everywhere and is morally not right. But, the companies that succeed adapt, evolve, and remain successful. In a sense, i kind of look at this like the current optics industry. Most every company is looking to create the best product possible at a price they know will provide their customers with a good cost/quality ratio — with the intention to take business from their competitors. Think Vortex vs Schmidt — who do you think adapted and evolved in this scenario, consequently driving an evolution of affordable sport optics.
I disagree with the OP’s tone and to each their opinion. Reason being, is if I’m a business owner, or a product engineer for a very well known product in the industry, I’m not likely to come to a forum to more or less complain about what his happening to them — with the understanding it’s happening to everyone else also. This comes with much respect, because I do like RRS products, I just can’t find the cost/quality ratio to be justified.
Maybe if I was able to see the markup in RRS products and find that the margins aren’t there to provide customers with a better cost/quality product — then I’d be more understanding.
At the end of the day, adapt and evolve. Continue to innovate. And don’t quit because you know at some point someone is going to copy you.
I place more blame on consumers and shareholders more than the companies. Consumers demand lower prices. Shareholders demand higher return on investment. Corporations just react to demands of the consumer/shareholder whether we like it or not.
The also relocated there from San Luis Obispo, in order to allow their employees to actually afford to live, own property, etc. Aside from being 100% American made, they're also a company that cares about their people, it seems. Too bad they weren't making legs when I bought my Gitzo, or I'd already have an RRS tripod...
There are other good options for US tripod.
Pro Media Gear aka CruxOrd
Pro Media Gear aka CruxOrd
Leofoto is made in China, Feisol is made in Taiwan. Besides being a free country with a democratically elected government, Taiwan has moved up the quality and value added scale of manufacturing. For example Foxconn assembles every iPhone out there in China but is a Taiwanese company and TSMC (Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing) makes all of the main chips for the iPhone,
If you want to be pedantic about it, the current AMG is 99% American made. The reticle is German simply because no one in the US can produce them in the volume (or quality) required. I have no doubt that if a new US-based source emerged that could meet their needs, Vortex would switch to them (based on a conversation I had with Dave Hamilton when I toured the Vortex facility some time back). Literally, everything else about that scope is manufactured in the US, and mostly in Vortex's shop in Wisconsin (they outsource the glass to another US company). So "literally everything that can be made in America is made in America" isn't 100% US made, but that's as good as you can get, so...
I've also toured the manufacturing floor at Leupold, near Portland, OR. Everything but the glass is manufactured in their facility there (and it's an impressively large facility). I didn't probe them about the business decision to source Japanese glass - however, given their volume and the timeframe around when they established the bulk of their product line, it's probably not far off to guess that they couldn't find a domestic supplier that could meet their needs for quality, coatings, and volume.
That said, you can find first gen AMGs on the Hide PX all the time - one wouldn't need luck at all to buy one.
The point is we have 1 Vortex for a few years vs how many scopes made in the last 10 years? 20 years? I love Vortex. They support shooting sports and even show with some of their employees at matches.
My original point is that saying you dont want to own a Vortex because you want to "buy american" leaves you with nothing.
My original point is that saying you dont want to own a Vortex because you want to "buy american" leaves you with nothing.
It’s sad, but there is always going to be a market for knock Offs. I have learned a saying here at the hide, “buy once, cry once”. My wife doesn’t always like it, but she’s coming around now. Why pay 3 or 4 times for something when if you spend the same amount of money initially you are one buying a quality and durable product and two supporting American small businesses. Just my opinion though.
Some years ago, My Lady and I spent a LOT of hours and dollars developing a product that would be of use here. As well as in a few other areas/industries. (A friend of mine is an aircraft mechanic for Air Canada and he wanted one as soon as possible) It was a heck of an endeavor and we also went through the Patent process. At least 'started' it.
Only to come to find that the Patent (when granted) is only covering the products in the Country granting it. (as per the Patent lawyer) So that wouldn't prevent some chinese asshole from filling a shipping container and selling that same cloned product in any other country in the world. And even if they DID sell in Canada, then it is up to us to spend our dollars on lawyer to try to stop the process and recoup the losses.
Considering the numerous thousands of dollars it would take for a Canadian Patent, as well as the more thousands of dollars it would take to get an AmeriYank Patent (to at-least cover our asses here on this continent)... we have been holding off on going forward simply because we don't have that kinda scratch laying around.
We had the logistics all worked out for the manufacturing as well. Locally produced parts, with some parts imported from the U.S;, and yeah, this item was of interest to the U.S.M.C. as well. I'll never forget the phone-call I received one morning from a Lady in Quantico.
So, tell me, what's the thing to do? Especially when you don't have the disposable funds to get all the legal-crap set up in advance? It was re-assuring the day that the Patent lawyer was here in the house, checking out our stuff and designs. I still wonder to this day if he was serious, or just a 'sales pitch' when he said that "quite a number of different parts/processes" are of unique design.
And then it's threads like this that show me that we weren't wrong to hold off. A number of others have said to "just jump in and do it...." and we both here have only our home to lose.
Some shit just ain't right.
Only to come to find that the Patent (when granted) is only covering the products in the Country granting it. (as per the Patent lawyer) So that wouldn't prevent some chinese asshole from filling a shipping container and selling that same cloned product in any other country in the world. And even if they DID sell in Canada, then it is up to us to spend our dollars on lawyer to try to stop the process and recoup the losses.
Considering the numerous thousands of dollars it would take for a Canadian Patent, as well as the more thousands of dollars it would take to get an AmeriYank Patent (to at-least cover our asses here on this continent)... we have been holding off on going forward simply because we don't have that kinda scratch laying around.
We had the logistics all worked out for the manufacturing as well. Locally produced parts, with some parts imported from the U.S;, and yeah, this item was of interest to the U.S.M.C. as well. I'll never forget the phone-call I received one morning from a Lady in Quantico.
So, tell me, what's the thing to do? Especially when you don't have the disposable funds to get all the legal-crap set up in advance? It was re-assuring the day that the Patent lawyer was here in the house, checking out our stuff and designs. I still wonder to this day if he was serious, or just a 'sales pitch' when he said that "quite a number of different parts/processes" are of unique design.
And then it's threads like this that show me that we weren't wrong to hold off. A number of others have said to "just jump in and do it...." and we both here have only our home to lose.
Some shit just ain't right.
It's human nature to both, try to make as much money as possible, and to try and buy something as inexpensively as possible, within reason (in other words not junk), that meets one's expectations and requirements.
I'm friends with a pretty nice guy, this guy owns an incredibly successful business, basically he was at the right place, at the right time, made the right decisions, and went from a normal business owner (small tire shop) to a wealthy business owner within a 10 year time frame. I watched it all happen from the sidelines.
The guy is buying me and another friend a fancy dinner and we are both his sponsored shooters. He let's it out, that he's buying guns and scopes from certain manufacturers and selling them for 100% markup. The rifles are anywhere from $1100 to $3000 retail, and he's the #1 dealer in the world with these brands. BTW the rifles are considered among the highest quality of their type available. Scopes are not but are made in china.
Me, just a regular working sap, who can't even afford his least expensive rifles at this point in my life, I kinda short circuited inside. I didn't show what I was thinking right then but I'm making calculations in my head and coming up with some big numbers, lol.
Would I do what he's done, probably, it's not against the law but I might feel a bit guilty?? Too me it's crazy to think of making an average profit of $1000 on just these items alone and selling thousands of them???!!!, not including his other business ventures.
Would I buy those specific products he's making 100% profit on? The answer is yes if I made the money to easily afford them, I have in the past BTW, and would again if I ever came into the money again. Half the reason is he is a friend, and has been nice to me.
Will I buy those products now, no I won't, it's not for any other reason than I can't afford to.
Will I buy less expensive rifles, nearly as good, ones he doesn't sell, on sale somewhere, that are made in other countries, maybe even china, yes I will.
Tripods and heads, I'm not going to pay anymore than I have to. I am soured by Leophoto making exact copies and using RRS names, so I'll look elsewhere.
As much as I want a RRS Tripod and Anvil30 (I do think they are the highest quality), it's just out of question financially. Plus I bet there's more than 100% profit in these, I'm sure the owner is charging as much money as he can get away with, but I owe no favors or allegiance to RRS.
So if I want a heavy duty tripod and head I have no choice but to choose a lesser brand and probably chinese made.
Heck, I could use some suggestions which of the less expensive to buy and offend the American Mader's the least.
I'm friends with a pretty nice guy, this guy owns an incredibly successful business, basically he was at the right place, at the right time, made the right decisions, and went from a normal business owner (small tire shop) to a wealthy business owner within a 10 year time frame. I watched it all happen from the sidelines.
The guy is buying me and another friend a fancy dinner and we are both his sponsored shooters. He let's it out, that he's buying guns and scopes from certain manufacturers and selling them for 100% markup. The rifles are anywhere from $1100 to $3000 retail, and he's the #1 dealer in the world with these brands. BTW the rifles are considered among the highest quality of their type available. Scopes are not but are made in china.
Me, just a regular working sap, who can't even afford his least expensive rifles at this point in my life, I kinda short circuited inside. I didn't show what I was thinking right then but I'm making calculations in my head and coming up with some big numbers, lol.
Would I do what he's done, probably, it's not against the law but I might feel a bit guilty?? Too me it's crazy to think of making an average profit of $1000 on just these items alone and selling thousands of them???!!!, not including his other business ventures.
Would I buy those specific products he's making 100% profit on? The answer is yes if I made the money to easily afford them, I have in the past BTW, and would again if I ever came into the money again. Half the reason is he is a friend, and has been nice to me.
Will I buy those products now, no I won't, it's not for any other reason than I can't afford to.
Will I buy less expensive rifles, nearly as good, ones he doesn't sell, on sale somewhere, that are made in other countries, maybe even china, yes I will.
Tripods and heads, I'm not going to pay anymore than I have to. I am soured by Leophoto making exact copies and using RRS names, so I'll look elsewhere.
As much as I want a RRS Tripod and Anvil30 (I do think they are the highest quality), it's just out of question financially. Plus I bet there's more than 100% profit in these, I'm sure the owner is charging as much money as he can get away with, but I owe no favors or allegiance to RRS.
So if I want a heavy duty tripod and head I have no choice but to choose a lesser brand and probably chinese made.
Heck, I could use some suggestions which of the less expensive to buy and offend the American Mader's the least.
Could not agree with you more. I am all for anything that grows this sport even if means Chinese tripods and Chinese heads. If someone shows up at a match with a rifle made out of hand me down parts with a Chinese optic and a Chinese tripod welcome to my squad. If that is what you can do, then the sport needs you. If you need an extra mag, someone will loan you one for the day. I wonder how many people look down their nose at a Chinese product and swear they will never compromise their buy American integrity then go to Wal Mart and buy their kid their first bicycle and helmet both made in China.
Bang
Yes. Up the river about 40 miles is Orofino. Even their stuff has Japan written on it. But the Japanese are one of our allies. My Swaro stuff is obviously not 100% American made. Nor is Zeiss or Kahles. But, again, those nations are not on the list of trying to cause the USA to fail and generally respect copyright and patent rights.
On the other hand, I don't recall saying I needed a 100% American made (and wholly American owned) optics...but I would welcome the company to the stage and give them a fair shot.
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Hi,
@Sean the Nailer you still have that product design and interest in bringing it to life?
Sincerely,
Theis
@Sean the Nailer you still have that product design and interest in bringing it to life?
Sincerely,
Theis
Appreciate you sharing the story. I've consulted to the med-tech/medical device market, billions of dollars invested in patents, attorney's, products, and then some. All the patent attorney's I've worked with have summarized up their work in a very single sentence: A patent is only worth the amount of money you are willing to spend to defend it in the U.S. Courts.
Ordered an Anvil 30 the other day direct. Waiting for it to come in stock and then ship.
Just substitute the phrase, “I’m just a working’ man, I don’t have the scratch for a USA-made tripod right now, so I bought a Chinese tripod clone,”
with the phrase
“I’m just a working’ man, I don’t have the scratch for a USA-made RIFLE right now, so I bought a Chinese RIFLE clone,” and some interesting things might start happening in your brain.
No Tikka jokes allowed lol.
with the phrase
“I’m just a working’ man, I don’t have the scratch for a USA-made RIFLE right now, so I bought a Chinese RIFLE clone,” and some interesting things might start happening in your brain.
No Tikka jokes allowed lol.
since somebody resurrected this thread, lol. for a minute i thought it was a current topic because it was early january.
so this links back to the "fuck walmart" topic and how they force companies to offshore labor by demanding a lower price.
they basically said meet this price or "somebody" will make it in china and there is nothing you can do about it.
this is when my boss at the time was "forced" to lay off 2 dozen americans and opened a maquiladora near ensenada.
that was basically when i decided to do IT full time and started my second career.
IMO, quite honestly even at $239 on Amazon the Leofoto VYCE knockoff is overpriced. A part as simple as this, whose purpose served any need other than guns, would be closer to $29. While RRS is probably better, it’s over priced.
Kinda like all things swimming pool related.
(Bugged me to pay $129 for a plate, but works better for me with the Anvil-30)
Kinda like all things swimming pool related.
(Bugged me to pay $129 for a plate, but works better for me with the Anvil-30)
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On the internet, not only nobody knows you’re a dog, but all topics are can be current topics.
c. 1993
Although…
c.2015
But I’ll never know why people get OCD over continuing threads. I guess they’d rather have 6.5 million threads on the same topic; while in each one they are the first to pithily comment, “Luser use search function plz.”
c. 1993
Although…
c.2015
But I’ll never know why people get OCD over continuing threads. I guess they’d rather have 6.5 million threads on the same topic; while in each one they are the first to pithily comment, “Luser use search function plz.”
Oh there absolutely IS recourse, it's just our paid for politicians won't do shit about it. You see how Trumps stance against China and their outright crimes went... I won't support the Chinese knock off crap. I'd rather not buy the item than give a damn dime to that CCP dictator regime.
I own and operate a small business and I know what kind of work and the unbelievable hours that goes into my business that no one sees. I won't participate in hurting other American businesses. That's in fact what's kept me from pulling the trigger on a tripod of late. I haven't decided I'm committed enough to get an RRS or ProMediaGear tripod with that kind of price tag, and I'm not buying the Chinese ones.
I worked (and man am I glad I'm retired! haha) in very high tech telecom core network industry incl some very innovative start ups and and high growth companies in long haul optical and VOIP sectors.
I remember C suite execs going to China to work out deals to sell equipment and the cost of doing business was giving up your IP. They wanted the fucking source code to let you sell your shit there. And those assholes agreed because....well, for these folks their success and compensation is all about short term investor return.
Here....we just let Huawei rip the shit off and then sell it back to us.
So, no...I hate clear rip offs like the ones RRS showed us from Leofoto. It is distressing to see, I will NOT buy any of those products, and I doubt I will buy any Leofoto products at all as this rip off is blatant and intended to fool the purchaser as to what they are getting.
With that said, I don't necessarily have any strong brand loyalty to RRS. Their stuff is very expensive and the ONLY person weighing cost/benefits of my purchase decisions is me. If you aren't paying for it for me, then you don't have any standing on the subject.
So, in my case I found a used Pig Lite Tripod with a Sunwayfoto ball head for a very good price and for spotting scope, binos, RF and the like its just fine for now. Its fit for MY purposes at the present.
I have no had the opportunity to handle any RRS gear and if/when I do I may well see the design/quality differences that justify the price.
I remember C suite execs going to China to work out deals to sell equipment and the cost of doing business was giving up your IP. They wanted the fucking source code to let you sell your shit there. And those assholes agreed because....well, for these folks their success and compensation is all about short term investor return.
Here....we just let Huawei rip the shit off and then sell it back to us.
So, no...I hate clear rip offs like the ones RRS showed us from Leofoto. It is distressing to see, I will NOT buy any of those products, and I doubt I will buy any Leofoto products at all as this rip off is blatant and intended to fool the purchaser as to what they are getting.
With that said, I don't necessarily have any strong brand loyalty to RRS. Their stuff is very expensive and the ONLY person weighing cost/benefits of my purchase decisions is me. If you aren't paying for it for me, then you don't have any standing on the subject.
So, in my case I found a used Pig Lite Tripod with a Sunwayfoto ball head for a very good price and for spotting scope, binos, RF and the like its just fine for now. Its fit for MY purposes at the present.
I have no had the opportunity to handle any RRS gear and if/when I do I may well see the design/quality differences that justify the price.
Fascinating logic. And not just this quote.
Everybody, Baron23 has spoken. If you aren’t buying him a tripod, shut up.
No, do not exaggerate this....I said nothing about anybody's right to discuss any thing they want. Not a single bit. I did not tell anybody to shut up.
So don't put words in my mouth.
But it is not uncommon here to see members giving other people who are looking for a less expensive solution to an issue a ton of shit about it.
All I'm saying is that if you aren't pulling dollars out of your pocket, you really don't have any room to criticize me or anybody else for what they choose to buy.
Now, if you want to buy me an RRS rig, must PM me...I'll be glad to accept it. I can arrange for it to be my birthday whenever its convenient for you. No gift wrapping required.
I hope you can understand this better....maybe break out the dictionary?
You figuratively just said “shut up.” Again.
“…you really don't have any room to criticize me or anybody else for what they choose to buy,” and “you don't have any standing on the subject,” both figuratively mean “shut up.”
Your Chinese argument boils down to:
- American businessmen are assholes for selling out to the Chinese
- RRS stuff is expensive
- It’s my money
- I’ll do what I want with it
- I’ve just given it to the Chinese
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My argument? LOL Go away....leave me alone.
By the by, I know how to write "shut up" if I want....watch.....SHUT UP.
See
Amazing.My argument? LOL Go away....leave me alone.
By the by, I know how to write "shut up" if I want....watch.....SHUT UP.
See
Couldn’t have said it better myself.
