Diebold, Mosler and Pendleton make real nice stuff. Honestly out of my league dollar wise unless I find them used. I have a straight shot to where it is going to go and I am very accustom to moving stupid heavy stuff (because I have the right tools). Great post BTW. I need to speak with the wife (who is as much as competitive shooter as me, maybe more) about buying a another AMSEC. My current one is older but goodie, but just too small.
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I Need A New Safe
- Thread starter Gosu
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Diebold, Mosler and Pendleton make real nice stuff. Honestly out of my league dollar wise unless I find them used. I have a straight shot to where it is going to go and I am very accustom to moving stupid heavy stuff (because I have the right tools). Great post BTW. I need to speak with the wife (who is as much as competitive shooter as me, maybe more) about buying a another AMSEC. My current one is older but goodie, but just too small.
This might sound silly, but put a few big cans of Budweiser on the safe. I have personally seen people put out engine fires with warm cans of Bud. When the cans get hot they will explode fire extinguishing foam all over your safe. I'm not saying this is the only or best method, but it is cheap. Which is what you are aiming for.
What BS? My info is spot on... feel free to try and debunk it... but you can't.
Why are you bringing up shit from another thread? The advice is the same. You should take your troll , whining ass to another forum if you cannot handle everyone not agreeing with you. Must be a california conformist thing....
Pendleton isn't in the same class as diebold and mosler. If you have the ability to get one of these monsters in your house then you should look for a used one before buying another. If you watch eBay and craigslist you can find newer diebold cashgaurds for 2-3K pretty regularly.
Been around forever. Its better than most BS gunstore advice.... but its still a guy who is selling safes... His advice means about as much as a car salesment... His job is to get a sale.
Wow, you're slow. The BS is your first "contribution" being the comment to ignore what everyone else has said. I gave two examples of good info posted prior to your know-it-all bully BS and you ignore them (of course).
You need to go look up what a troll is. You're using it wrongly. Must be too close to DC and infected with "I know what you need better than you do" asshat syndrome. With your charm you should run for office.
BF without a doubt.Also look at used GSA containers and jewel safes on criagslist. You might have to build your own interior, but you can get really good safes pretty cheap.
I picked up one of these 10 yrs ago and still very happy with it.
Gun Safes for Sale | Vault Doors | Storm Shelters - Sportsman Safe* Co.
Gun Safes for Sale | Vault Doors | Storm Shelters - Sportsman Safe* Co.
11 one side, 14 one side = 25 total. Also the door organizer holds another two long guns and several pistols.
I ended up getting a catalog and figured it out. Now I just need to figure which and light kit or not. But I do appreciate the answer. Got the approval from the wife so I just need to figure out how. Safeandvaultstore.com seem to be best prices.
This AMSEC argument always seems to go around and around.
Cobracutter writes: “seriosuly go read and learn about safes before giving poor advice”
and then he follows up with “You either want a safe or some bullshit RSC that wont stop anything but a 5 year old”
then he says: “BF without a doubt”
However, AMSEC describes their BF line as (but not limited to):
All BF® Series Safes feature :
• ½" steel plate door combined with 1" DryLight insulation. (BF7250 is 3/8" steel plate for stability due to size of door.)
• 2" total wall thickness on all sides featuring our poured DryLight insulation and two layers of steel for exceptional fire and security protection.
• U.L. Residential Security Container (RSC) Burglary Classification.
• 11 massive 1½" chrome-plated bolts. Bolt detent system holds bolts in open position.
• Mercury Class III fire protection of 1275°F for 90 minutes. Designed to maintain an interior temperature of less than 350°F.
• Commercial grade, adjustable ball bearing hinges
Focus on the third feature, so which is it, RSC ratings suck....unless it’s an AMSEC safe with a RSC rating
Cobracutter writes: “seriosuly go read and learn about safes before giving poor advice”
and then he follows up with “You either want a safe or some bullshit RSC that wont stop anything but a 5 year old”
then he says: “BF without a doubt”
However, AMSEC describes their BF line as (but not limited to):
All BF® Series Safes feature :
• ½" steel plate door combined with 1" DryLight insulation. (BF7250 is 3/8" steel plate for stability due to size of door.)
• 2" total wall thickness on all sides featuring our poured DryLight insulation and two layers of steel for exceptional fire and security protection.
• U.L. Residential Security Container (RSC) Burglary Classification.
• 11 massive 1½" chrome-plated bolts. Bolt detent system holds bolts in open position.
• Mercury Class III fire protection of 1275°F for 90 minutes. Designed to maintain an interior temperature of less than 350°F.
• Commercial grade, adjustable ball bearing hinges
Focus on the third feature, so which is it, RSC ratings suck....unless it’s an AMSEC safe with a RSC rating
Good point, I would like power in there though for the humidifier. The say they have a cut out for power, any idea on what it is? My AMSEC doesn't have any cut out, but then again it is likely from the 70's
A couple reasons why I went with a another AMSEC; I have one now and been pleased, but likley the more important one is they seem to be the best safe for the money. It appears that I will slightly exceed my $2k mark, but I am getting one for around the $2200 with everything (tax, shipping, etc).
I believe the 2012 and earlier BF's have a hole for a cord. One of the new things for 2013 is a external plug and cord that you plug in and then have a receptacle inside the safe. Mine has it but I don't use it. I use desiccant packs because I don't like the idea of a electronic that can short and cause a fire inside of something I'm trying to keep it out of. I know it's a slim chance bit I still don't like it.
I'm not defending him, but you are just as clueless when it comes to an RSC rating. Just because two safes offer the same rating don't mean they have equal security. An RSC has to withstand 5 minutes of attack with a few simple hand tools. Some safes do that barely and some safes (like the BF) do that and a lot more and just barely don't make a TL rating. To suggest the BF line is no better than any other RSC is just plain retarded. My BF is much more secure than my Heritage that cost $1K more.
I'm not defending him, but you are just as clueless when it comes to an RSC rating. Just because two safes offer the same rating don't mean they have equal security. An RSC has to withstand 5 minutes of attack with a few simple hand tools. Some safes do that barely and some safes (like the BF) do that and a lot more and just barely don't make a TL rating. To suggest the BF line is no better than any other RSC is just plain retarded. My BF is much more secure than my Heritage that cost $1K more.
I can understand that and I will still have desiccant in there for back up, but I like the powered humidifier just to keep things in line. As far as burning up, it is possible, but if my luck is that bad, then I should be screwed anyways.
I am fully aware of what RSC ratings are as I own several safes. The point is, making a blanket statement that all RSC rated safes are shit is not accurate. There are many types of RSC ratings so making a claim that a "real" gun safe is better than and RSC rated safe (as was written as "You either want a safe or some bullshit RSC)" is ridiculous.
Yes, safes that are T-15 or T-30 and higher rated safes are better but at some point the consumer needs to gauge their needs with reality of what is most likely to happen. I would argue that the percentages of people that have a mid level safe and actually have it broken into during a burglary are extremely low. In my case, I am more worried about fire protection than burglary issues. The average person breaking into a home with a safe is not going to get into them within any reasonable time frame. Get a decent safe with good fire protection, bolt it to the floor and have a home alarm system and that should take care of 99.99 percent of the folks needing a safe. JMHO
Yes, safes that are T-15 or T-30 and higher rated safes are better but at some point the consumer needs to gauge their needs with reality of what is most likely to happen. I would argue that the percentages of people that have a mid level safe and actually have it broken into during a burglary are extremely low. In my case, I am more worried about fire protection than burglary issues. The average person breaking into a home with a safe is not going to get into them within any reasonable time frame. Get a decent safe with good fire protection, bolt it to the floor and have a home alarm system and that should take care of 99.99 percent of the folks needing a safe. JMHO
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I found this: Mosler ISP Container Safe Class 5 M P Sccnav 2 x 09 Locks GSA Double Door | eBay
Might work for you.
Might work for you.
We share the same concern with my only addition is that if someone does steal one of my weapons and uses on someone else. At that point within reason I will feel I did not do my part of to secure my firearm. Luckily I live in the middle of no where, sort of. Plus just like my car, if someone really wants to get in my Yukon, they will (another words I am not going to go nuts about it).
As far as the alarm goes I have two dogs. I have the power go out often at my house due to my location and even though most alarms are redundant with battery back up I prefer my two mutts....other than they leaving me a load in the yard that I didn't know about.
Like the old saying goes, you won't know unless you ask. I appreciate you posting it.
I think you covered the obvious problem and that is you can second guess and "what-if" all day long but eventually you need to select something. I try an direct people to the best safe they can afford but as many of the threads here start out with " what's the best for the cheapest" something has to give. Living out in the sticks can be good ( away from the routine problems) but bad in response times if assistance is needed. One idea I am contemplating is essentially "bricking-in" one of my safes to make it ultra fireproof. Maybe six or so inches of brick added to the top, back and sides may help. Might not look so good but it won't get hot as quickly.
Before moving for work to where I currently live, my old house I had a walk in room for reloading and firearms that was lined. My father was still alive and with the firearms that my mother, father, my daughter, wife and myself had it made sense. It would be nice to look at something along those lines again, but the money is not there now for something that elaborate. With that I will be ok with a decent safe and if it came to a fire that totally destroyed my house my heart would honestly be grieving more for my dogs. I am sure there will be some on this forum that will shake their head at that comment, but they are my friends.
Would you buy one of the lights that sit above the the dial (like Champion uses)
If you dont have insurance, then thats the first thing you should do. I just updated my policy with USAA... Worldwide coverage for anything, no matter where it is, Thefts, lost, misplaced, fire, flood, Appocolypse or Evil Monkeys....
Came out to around $15/$1000 in coverage per year. No Safe will afford you that level of protection , and sure as hell not that cheap. A Safe would take me 40 years to recover the cost, and still not even get close to the level of protection and coverage.
Came out to around $15/$1000 in coverage per year. No Safe will afford you that level of protection , and sure as hell not that cheap. A Safe would take me 40 years to recover the cost, and still not even get close to the level of protection and coverage.
Thats a pretty big deductable, that would cost more than many of the guns I have. Might wana shop around for a better deal/coverage
It is part of my homeowners deductible and my guess is they would also steal the other $20k worth of tools also.
What a wild read......unbelievable.
Half the safes listed are indeed as stated, crap.
But for a second lets set aside ALL the discussions about the box.
Lets throw this into the pot and see what comes to the surface.
All of you, every single one of you that own any brand of safe with an electronic lock, grab your manual and see if your lock allows for the entry of the "Master Code".
Don't have manual, get it. Got a manual and it doesn't say, call the LOCK manufacturer, NOT the box maker.
That code sits above "MUC" (Multiple User Codes). That Master Code is usually set at 1,2,3,4,5,6,# and is set at the factory.
Know about whether or not your electronic lock has a "MC" (mastercode) and if YOU set it. For most (REMEMBER THIS SENTENCE) It gets set ONCE, EVER, for the whole life of the lock.
If your lock is capable of allowing for more than one code and you cannot enter another.....you DO NOT have the Mastercode. L-O-N-G chirps after you try..chiiiiiirp.....chiiiiirp.....chiiiirp...you b screwed.
Worse....if you set a MUC BEFORE setting the MC...setting a MC is impossible for you (keep reading).
The issue is the factory or your dealer sometimes sets the Master Code prior to your taking delivery.
Sometimes...the safe guy will look at you and say "Ok, ready to enter your own code?" You are thinking "yes I am!" He taps in the MC and stands back, you, thinking you are ready to set things right...you enter your own code.
Your safe is now about as safe as a tackle box. Why...
Master Code = Sits above and allows for Multiple User Code Entries.
Multiple User Code = Sits below Master Code and the Master Code can over ride all Multiple User Codes
And then? Well then you can ask yourself "does my electronic lock allow for a MRC? (Master Reset Code)
Say what? What is a MRC?
That is the code that can be...can be....kept at the factory and is issued to "Your Local Super Safe and Obviously Friendly Retail Safe Guy" if you lock your self out or loose you code.
Enter the MRC and anybody is in.....Does your model electronic lock allow for a MC? a MRC? Well, do you feel lucky, well do you....click.
What a minute...every safe with a particular electronic lock might have a MRC? Yep. How the hell would they keep all those MRC's for use?
Well sometimes the BOX maker sets the MRC....to one code....for all models that are sent out with that lock model....one code....know that code...no friggin' way....seriously.
Sometimes they sit in a spread sheet, or a log list, or are the same for all month of manufactures.....no friggin' way....seriously.
Sometimes your local locksmith that got it in 2003 for your brand can simply enter the MRC and help you get in...great guy!
If you are thinking "I own a 6,000lbs TSA lock?" well.....
Lets review:
Master Reset Code = Sits above the Master Code and allows for the Master Code to be over-ridden
Master Code = Sits above and allows for Multiple User Code Entries.
Multiple User Code = Sits below Master Code and the Master Code can over ride all Multiple User Codes
Bunky? Yes, did you tell them about the bench code? What?!?!
Camocorvette gets the prize for the most useful and generous review of safes. That video HAS been around for a long time, he DOES know more than most, it IS an excellent review of safes.
To slam that video as a sales gimmick is to slam your cardiologist when he review your intervention options. Nobody...not a single soul...that knows "boxes" can look at that video and think anything other than "generous practitioner."
Back to boxes......you were saying?
'
Half the safes listed are indeed as stated, crap.
But for a second lets set aside ALL the discussions about the box.
Lets throw this into the pot and see what comes to the surface.
All of you, every single one of you that own any brand of safe with an electronic lock, grab your manual and see if your lock allows for the entry of the "Master Code".
Don't have manual, get it. Got a manual and it doesn't say, call the LOCK manufacturer, NOT the box maker.
That code sits above "MUC" (Multiple User Codes). That Master Code is usually set at 1,2,3,4,5,6,# and is set at the factory.
Know about whether or not your electronic lock has a "MC" (mastercode) and if YOU set it. For most (REMEMBER THIS SENTENCE) It gets set ONCE, EVER, for the whole life of the lock.
If your lock is capable of allowing for more than one code and you cannot enter another.....you DO NOT have the Mastercode. L-O-N-G chirps after you try..chiiiiiirp.....chiiiiirp.....chiiiirp...you b screwed.
Worse....if you set a MUC BEFORE setting the MC...setting a MC is impossible for you (keep reading).
The issue is the factory or your dealer sometimes sets the Master Code prior to your taking delivery.
Sometimes...the safe guy will look at you and say "Ok, ready to enter your own code?" You are thinking "yes I am!" He taps in the MC and stands back, you, thinking you are ready to set things right...you enter your own code.
Your safe is now about as safe as a tackle box. Why...
Master Code = Sits above and allows for Multiple User Code Entries.
Multiple User Code = Sits below Master Code and the Master Code can over ride all Multiple User Codes
And then? Well then you can ask yourself "does my electronic lock allow for a MRC? (Master Reset Code)
Say what? What is a MRC?
That is the code that can be...can be....kept at the factory and is issued to "Your Local Super Safe and Obviously Friendly Retail Safe Guy" if you lock your self out or loose you code.
Enter the MRC and anybody is in.....Does your model electronic lock allow for a MC? a MRC? Well, do you feel lucky, well do you....click.
What a minute...every safe with a particular electronic lock might have a MRC? Yep. How the hell would they keep all those MRC's for use?
Well sometimes the BOX maker sets the MRC....to one code....for all models that are sent out with that lock model....one code....know that code...no friggin' way....seriously.
Sometimes they sit in a spread sheet, or a log list, or are the same for all month of manufactures.....no friggin' way....seriously.
Sometimes your local locksmith that got it in 2003 for your brand can simply enter the MRC and help you get in...great guy!
If you are thinking "I own a 6,000lbs TSA lock?" well.....
Lets review:
Master Reset Code = Sits above the Master Code and allows for the Master Code to be over-ridden
Master Code = Sits above and allows for Multiple User Code Entries.
Multiple User Code = Sits below Master Code and the Master Code can over ride all Multiple User Codes
Bunky? Yes, did you tell them about the bench code? What?!?!
Camocorvette gets the prize for the most useful and generous review of safes. That video HAS been around for a long time, he DOES know more than most, it IS an excellent review of safes.
To slam that video as a sales gimmick is to slam your cardiologist when he review your intervention options. Nobody...not a single soul...that knows "boxes" can look at that video and think anything other than "generous practitioner."
Back to boxes......you were saying?
'
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Honestly, I am partial because I have only ever owned dial locks and never found a issue with them. I thought that I might like a electronic due to their "ease", but will likely not buy one. It appears that I am going to buy a BF6030 AMSEC from Safeandvaultstore.
Consider if you have an issue, your local AMSEC repair tech may refuse service if you don't buy from them or locally. All that work in contracted out locally and many places can not find a safe guy for many many miles. It really is worth it to try and negotiate locally and work out a deal, as they know proper transportation and installation. Thats a big heavy safe, and you will need expertise and equipment to not damage proppery or potentialy kill someone moving it.
Also, the new AMSEC electronic locks are supposed to be more reliable than dial locks, with around 1 Million cycles before failure compared with 30-60K for a S&G.
Not trying to sound like dick, but that would be something I would expect to hear from a local salesman. According to Amsec themselves, they contract the work out and I don't have anything to do with it other than the phone call to them. How do I know? Because I have had work on my used Amsec safe done by a certified Amsec rep. That safe was used and not purchased at that store.
As far dial versus electrical goes, how many bank safes do you see with electronic. More importantly, I have zero issues with any that I have owned. I think the electronic is nice, do get me wrong, I just don't see spending the money if I am happy with a dial unless you can give me a reason other than reliability.
This!!
Get a "BF" as a minimum. They represent a great value and are built right. Mechanical lock preferred.
I lucked into a real safe that's rated 2-hours at 1850-deg. and weighs more than my car.
Don't be cheap and carefully plan the installation!!
Make sure installation is included in the final price.
AnschutzNerd
This would not be correct.
A new Amsec safe, bought from any dealer routinely moves with the owners three times in their lives. Any Amsec representative assigned a region will service your safe, whether it came to you from them, or arrived at your door on a truck, or you had it sent to them directly. The new AMSEC electronic locks are new AMSEC electronic locks, the S&G Group 1 locks have been around for decades, these folks have been making locks since the late 1800s. When properly serviced (nothing you cannot do yourself, see attached link) they will last well beyond the service life of anything that is driven off a 9 volt battery.
http://www.sargentandgreenleaf.com/pdf/book_mech_locks.pdf
A new Amsec safe, bought from any dealer routinely moves with the owners three times in their lives. Any Amsec representative assigned a region will service your safe, whether it came to you from them, or arrived at your door on a truck, or you had it sent to them directly. The new AMSEC electronic locks are new AMSEC electronic locks, the S&G Group 1 locks have been around for decades, these folks have been making locks since the late 1800s. When properly serviced (nothing you cannot do yourself, see attached link) they will last well beyond the service life of anything that is driven off a 9 volt battery.
http://www.sargentandgreenleaf.com/pdf/book_mech_locks.pdf
Actually It would be. They don't use reps, they contract it out to local safe companies and locksmiths. And they can decline service. In fact, here is one guy who says just that, a well known safe SME on AR15c.com:Questions for AMSEC TheSafeGuy - Page 18 - AR15.COM
Question: Is there any advantage through purchasing local? When I posed this question to my local dealer, he informed me that purchasing through him gives me the a local dealer that's able to service the warranty if needed, which really struck me as bogus. If I have a warranty claim I'd have to imagine that I'd be working directly with AMSEC, and I'd have a hard time believing he would refuse my money if I required service outside of warranty?
Awsner: If you buy a product through me, you'll have no worries for anything that happens after the sale. We sell the safe. We deliver the safe. We service the safe. We perform warranty work on the safe. We'll move the safe again in the future if you move. We'll take your safe in on trade if you purchase a different safe. We will open your safe for your estate if you die.
If you didn't buy your safe from us, and it happens to be a line we sell? Damn right I'll refuse your money. I'm already working 12 hours a day. Whomever sold it to you can hop on a plane and come fix it as far as I'm concerned. Same goes for moving it inside your house after the truck drops it off. Oh, and don't call us when 2 Guys & A Dolly, Inc. drop it down your stairs. This is also why there are many more hacks being employed by safe manufacturers to perform warranty work. Who do you think they call when a real tech like myself refuses to do the work?
Don't mean to sound harsh, but you're better off buying locally, IF, you have somebody locally that's competent.
Its important to understand the distinction between a REP (works for AMSEC) and a contractor/retail sales/locksmith (Contracted by AMSEC).
One does what is in the best interest of AMSEC and one does what is in the best interest of their own entity.
I am just sharing info from what I have experinced and have found during research and snooping around the net.
Riiiiiight. "You'll have no worries for anything". Other examples might be "you can trust me"..."I'll call you"..."it's just like new"...
I might have born at night, but not last night. Pretty trusting for a guy who started this thread with "First thing, Ignore everything you have been told in this thread."
A better way is to find a competent, trustworthy, licensed locksmith in your local area, develop a relationship with him over time and over multiple jobs. To a huge company like AmSec or even one of their dealers, you are likely to be just one small transaction out of thousands.
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What the fuck does me reposting someone else's statement have to do with my trust in him? I don't even know the guy. Just pointing out that many guys will refuse to work on products they didn't sell, and usualy they are the licenced and established locksmiths in the area that specialize in those products.
Are you trying to make a point or something?
You also said "Third, come back here and you can see who is giving good advice, who is blowing smoke out their ass, and who buys into the marketing bullshit in the safe industry."...which is exactly what you reposted...marketing BS.
The point is there. Wake up, Sunshine. Like you said: "Read the F'ing thread".
Cobra cutter, I think it would go long ways if you stop preaching to everyone like you are all knowing guru of all things. Take a minute and observe. It us ok to form your own opinions but stop trying to force feed your thoughts to us.
Now in respect with your comment on reps / contractors, I realize that you don't have a clue in what I do or what I have done but give me the benefit of the doubt that I understand what / how any f-ing business operates.
Thanks
Yes because repeating the the business policies that a vendor states (is his own) is buying into marketing...... Get fucking real with your reach of an arguement.
I'm still waiting for you to make a point.
Have a feeling its going to take a while.... Maybe I should get a snickers.
No need to get defensive. I was just pointing out based on your misswording, that they are two SEPERATE defintions with very different meanings. Calling a contracted entity, a Rep of a company is missleading and can add to the confusion. Just trying to clear that up.
I guess I'll have to show you again. The "reach" here is the guy saying the above. It sounds like marketing BS when you make this kind of exaggerated statement.
I have a suggestion for something you can eat before that Snickers, but I'll keep it to myself.
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