Ingenuity Precision trickler

What I don't get is, why Retumbo? It's a pretty basic stick powder, not physically much different than H1000, H4350, etc. It doesn't have the huge kernels of say, N570, so why is there a problem with Retumbo and not the others that are physically very similar?
Beause recent lots of Hogdgon powder have been shit. I've had clumpy Retumbo, H1000. Nothing has consistent burn rates similar to the same powders made 2 years ago. My new H1000 and H4350 are 1.5-2 gr slower than stuff from few years back. That can be a problem with smaller cases. They sell it so fast, they don't care if QC is poor, get it on the boat and get it sold.........
 
Beause recent lots of Hogdgon powder have been shit. I've had clumpy Retumbo, H1000. Nothing has consistent burn rates similar to the same powders made 2 years ago. My new H1000 and H4350 are 1.5-2 gr slower than stuff from few years back. That can be a problem with smaller cases. They sell it so fast, they don't care if QC is poor, get it on the boat and get it sold.........
New lot of XBR is doing the same thing, clumping a bit, needing extra charge weight etc.

I do think some of the discs will need a revision for certain powders, using the same 7545 disc for H4350 and Varget is fine, but XBR and AR-comp... is maybe a stretch.

Good news is disk cutting a modified geometry sould be pretty easy and seems pretty basic. The harder part will always be finding time for the R&D for some of the harder to get powders and testing them...ADI seems to only put certain things on a boat once every 2-3 years...
 
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Beause recent lots of Hogdgon powder have been shit. I've had clumpy Retumbo, H1000. Nothing has consistent burn rates similar to the same powders made 2 years ago. My new H1000 and H4350 are 1.5-2 gr slower than stuff from few years back. That can be a problem with smaller cases. They sell it so fast, they don't care if QC is poor, get it on the boat and get it sold.........
Uggggh, that's really disappointing. I do have some jugs from recent lots, but I haven't opened them. I still have quite a bunch that is from pre-Covid and I'm still loading it. I really hate to hear that my recent stores are going to be crappy when I get to them.
 
I know a fabulous beta-tester who’s a product engineer type who tested the shit out of the ST and abandoned it (not me) and was rebuffed when he offered to beta test the IP ( u know who you are)
You get along ok with the ST?
I had one on order for 3 months when the IP system was announced. I received my “ST is ready to ship pending payment” email on Halloween last year, but the IP was going to be shipping “before the end of the year.” So I cancelled my ST order and didn’t mind waiting “a couple months” for the IP system. I’m still wondering if I dodged a bullet by not getting the ST, or if I should get one now since this thing is getting ridiculous.
 
Uggggh, that's really disappointing. I do have some jugs from recent lots, but I haven't opened them. I still have quite a bunch that is from pre-Covid and I'm still loading it. I really hate to hear that my recent stores are going to be crappy when I get to them.
I won't say they are crappy as loads still shoot, but when my old load was 39gr at 2850 with a pretty full case of H4350, and now I cannot fit more than 40.2 and I've lost 70 fps at the new larger charge, it's frustrating. I run humidity control packs, 42% in all the jugs too, so it's not a moisture thing.
 
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What I don't get is, why Retumbo? It's a pretty basic stick powder, not physically much different than H1000, H4350, etc. It doesn't have the huge kernels of say, N570, so why is there a problem with Retumbo and not the others that are physically very similar?
Retumbo when it sits for a bit gets clumpy. Not an issue when you first pour it in. Let it sit for a bit and you can see some clumping issues. It has not affected performance in testing but because someone might leave it in the hopper for an extended period, Paul is making some changes.
 
So just cause some dumbfuck cannot be bothered being non-lazy the whole thing gets pushed back? Want my money back! /s

In all seriousness: How long do you think will this push the schedule further back? Just a rough estimate.
 
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Retumbo when it sits for a bit gets clumpy. Not an issue when you first pour it in. Let it sit for a bit and you can see some clumping issues. It has not affected performance in testing but because someone might leave it in the hopper for an extended period, Paul is making some changes.
Ah. Well, I never ever ever leave powder in a hopper any longer than I have to. When I’m done with the session it goes back in the jug right then. I guess that’s why I haven’t seen it happen in the hopper. In the jug - yes. When you open a new jug there may be some clumps that need breaking up initially but I’ve never had any form in the hopper. Thanks for clearing that up!
 
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Ah. Well, I never ever ever leave powder in a hopper any longer than I have to. When I’m done with the session it goes back in the jug right then. I guess that’s why I haven’t seen it happen in the hopper. In the jug - yes. When you open a new jug there may be some clumps that need breaking up initially but I’ve never had any form in the hopper. Thanks for clearing that up!
That’s been Paul’s or my experience. The benefit of these changes is for those dropping big charges of a 100 grains or more this makes the bulk dropper more consistent.
 
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Sad to hear but I'm okay to wait.

I appreciate a guy who takes pride in his work and what he puts out there.

I just need to keep from putting tannerite in my ST before this thing arrives. I was that guy refreshing the mash button on the preorder page waiting for it to go live...so I should be in the first batch. I made the mistake of selling my other setup when I started with the ST and it's just been a progressive nightmare since...
 
You get along ok with the ST?
I had one on order for 3 months when the IP system was announced. I received my “ST is ready to ship pending payment” email on Halloween last year, but the IP was going to be shipping “before the end of the year.” So I cancelled my ST order and didn’t mind waiting “a couple months” for the IP system. I’m still wondering if I dodged a bullet by not getting the ST, or if I should get one now since this thing is getting ridiculous.
I also beta tested the shit out of the superspiller and gave up in utter frustration.

There are two main problems: the vibratory tube is a fatal design flaw and limits the accuracy, the speed, and the stability of the system, especially with some of the most popular stick powders. (It limits the stability of the system because the vibratory motor is temperature sensitive, both ambient and internal as the unit heats up if used in cold weather). They try to compensate for this design flaw with the computer algorithms, but you can’t fix a hardware problem with a software update as any Tesla owner knows (FSD is a farce; the fucking cars need LIDAR in addition to cameras and you can update it as many times as you want, but it’s not going to work properly unless you put the proper hardware in place. FSD is a boondoggle and so is the so-called Robo taxi, but I digress.).

The other problem is the sheer complexity of the goddamn thing. You basically need to read 100 pages of instructions to figure out how to use it, and they are constantly adding removing and changing functions based on the petty whims of random whiners and dipshits on the Facebook group. “I want a button that blah blah blah”. Because of the touchscreen interface, they can change it infinitely many ways into eternity and they’re working hard at that.

I was relieved to get rid of mine and I’m using an ATV2.75 right now. Basically a V2 with the latest software that I got compliments of the other Superspiller beta-tester I was referring to.

Nothing against the super spiller guys. In fact, I really liked the programmer in Australia. They’re both highly competent engineers. But the guy in Denmark made an early mistake with that vibratory tube and he is stubborn as a mule, and simply will not consider any other design, so that device is inextricably stuck where it is at. No hope of a fix.
 
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I don't have a dog in this fight but I like my ST a lot. Its an early Gen2 that I did one update on shortly after I received it. I also have an ATV4 that works well (with some spacers, fiddling, etc.). I'm on the list for the IT but didn't jump on the list until a few months ago so I think I'm likely looking at a 2026 delivery based on what I'm seeing in this thread. :ROFLMAO:

I'm thinking about selling the ATV4 and rolling with the ST until the IT arrives and see then which toy I like best. I've hung onto the ATV4 out of curiosity if I'm missing something about the it that would make me keep it over the ST. That and being lazy about boxing it up and listing it.

Curious about opinions here an whether I should keep the ATV4 or not.

I get a few more overthrows on the ST but, overall, I can get more rounds done per hour with the ST than the V4 - even with a few more overthrows. I like the interface on the ST much better and find some stuff such as the ladder testing very helpful. I have no idea if the IT has this feature.

At a glance I like the overall design of the ST better than the IT - a single sleek unit I can move easily. I don't like the separate control panel with wires on the IT and using a phone with anything annoys me but we'll see. 3D printed stuff looks cheesy to me from an aesthetic perspective but, as long as it works, I don't care that much. I have no argument with the engineers perspective here - I just need something that works well and nitpicking is a waste of my time.

I don't get the fanboy nonsense from those that have not used something for a meaningful period of time - lot of hype in my view. I'll see what I like when the next toy arrives and sell the another. For me this is a hobby and the tools are toys in a sense. I don't have an issue exploring something new and selling it for a loss of a hunski or two - its all just entertaining myself during my time in this life.
 
Curious about opinions here an whether I should keep the ATV4 or not.
TLDR: The weakest point of both SuperTrickler and AutoTrickler in my view is the trickle method. Have you considered just adding the IP Trickler to your ATV4 or V3?

With the ST using the vibe slide method, and the AT using the screw pump method, both of these methods are subject to the issues with the kernels clumping, spilling, and causing over-throws. The problem has always begged for single kernel dispensing.

Having used the Prometheus before these, I wondered why these new designs used these other methods and didn't run with a method like a part feeder. The concepts of parts handlers and feeders pre-dates the Prometheus by generations so it wasn't protected intellectual property or patents as far as I know.

(For those of you that have never seen these things, the concept of the single kernel dispensing looks like the shell plate on a Dillon case feeder. A rotating disc plate has cuts on the perimeter that sort single kernels and drop them one at a time the same way an automatic case feeder drops cases into a progressive loading press.)

Along came the Ingenuity Precision Trickler and for me it unlocked the V3 and the V4 from the main problem, overthrows. I added the IP Trickler to the AT units and never looked back.

All this fuss about yet another method for the bulk dump is interesting, but to be honest I understood the company was a "cottage shop" and not a corporation. With many things in the shooting sports, some of the best products come with the baggage of dealing with who makes them. If you don't have the stomach for their cottage industry issues, it can understandably be a frustrating wait.

When using more than one weight-matched cup, and by adding the IP Trickler, you will rarely be waiting at all. I don't miss the over-throws.

I often run ladders and have no personal issues with using the iPad to run the AT units. So, it may or may not match anyone else's flow but I am not holding my breath for the new machine due to having V3, V4, with the IP Trickler.

I have no plans for the ST, it just sits in new condition in it's box and I don't see myself ever doing the fully automatic case loading trick down the line.

Maybe I am off base, but while we all wait... I was wondering why more folks didn't just upgrade with the main part of the improvement in the meantime. It could be the new unit has some advantages too, but the main one being the fine trickle was already solved? YMMV
 
Not to rub anyone’s nose in it, but IMHO the IP trickler is the “magical” part that most of you guys are missing in your lives lol, and from looking at IP’s site it looks like they’re available right now…

I’ve said it before, but while I’m onboard for Paul’s bulk dropper too (whenever it’s available), just owning the trickler component has been near life-changing lol… did another 100rd last night in ~10mins, every one to the f’ing kernel, and that’s dropping the bulk charge manually.

IDK how you guys who already own AT’s don’t already have one? It might cost a couple/few more hundred bucks adding the bulk dropper later, but life is short, YOLO!
 
Not to rub anyone’s nose in it, but IMHO the IP trickler is the “magical” part that most of you guys are missing in your lives lol, and from looking at IP’s site it looks like they’re available right now…

I’ve said it before, but while I’m onboard for Paul’s bulk dropper too (whenever it’s available), just owning the trickler component has been near life-changing lol… did another 100rd last night in ~10mins, every one to the f’ing kernel, and that’s dropping the bulk charge manually.

IDK how you guys who already own AT’s don’t already have one? It might cost a couple/few more hundred bucks adding the bulk dropper later, but life is short, YOLO!

I use a AT V2 (w/V3 board) and an IP trickler. This setup is the tits.
 
Not to rub anyone’s nose in it, but IMHO the IP trickler is the “magical” part that most of you guys are missing in your lives lol, and from looking at IP’s site it looks like they’re available right now…

I’ve said it before, but while I’m onboard for Paul’s bulk dropper too (whenever it’s available), just owning the trickler component has been near life-changing lol… did another 100rd last night in ~10mins, every one to the f’ing kernel, and that’s dropping the bulk charge manually.

IDK how you guys who already own AT’s don’t already have one? It might cost a couple/few more hundred bucks adding the bulk dropper later, but life is short, YOLO!

I was under the impression that the IP trickler was designed for the ATV3 - not the V4. I think I read that it could be set up with the V4 but it was less than ideal compatibility. Do I have this wrong?
 
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I was under the impression that the IP trickler was designed for the ATV3 - not the V4. I think I read that it could be set up with the V4 but it was less than ideal compatibility. Do I have this wrong?

From what I understand, it works well with an AT4 too (maybe someone else can chime in?).

Honestly, if you already have an FX120i, you could use a $20 Lee powder measure and it’d likely be faster and much less frustrating than anything you’ve ever used lol.
 
I’ve kept it simple. I use the V3 board to allow use of the app but do my drops with a RCBS Uniflow with micrometer stem and finish with the IP trickler. While a power drop would be nice, I'm willing to wait until Paul is satisfied that his product will perform to his standards. The last thing I want to have happen is going through the experience of having to have update after update after update to solve issues that present themselves after releasing the final product.

I think most who are following this thread are aware of problems some systems have experienced after purchase and would prefer, as I would, a product that works as it should from the get-go.

Based on the performance of his IP trickler, I have complete confidence in Paul and expect the wait to be worth it.

It gets here when it gets here…
 
I also beta tested the shit out of the superspiller and gave up in utter frustration.

There are two main problems: the vibratory tube is a fatal design flaw and limits the accuracy, the speed, and the stability of the system, especially with some of the most popular stick powders. (It limits the stability of the system because the vibratory motor is temperature sensitive, both ambient and internal as the unit heats up if used in cold weather). They try to compensate for this design flaw with the computer algorithms, but you can’t fix a hardware problem with a software update as any Tesla owner knows (FSD is a farce; the fucking cars need LIDAR in addition to cameras and you can update it as many times as you want, but it’s not going to work properly unless you put the proper hardware in place. FSD is a boondoggle and so is the so-called Robo taxi, but I digress.).

The other problem is the sheer complexity of the goddamn thing. You basically need to read 100 pages of instructions to figure out how to use it, and they are constantly adding removing and changing functions based on the petty whims of random whiners and dipshits on the Facebook group. “I want a button that blah blah blah”. Because of the touchscreen interface, they can change it infinitely many ways into eternity and they’re working hard at that.

I was relieved to get rid of mine and I’m using an ATV2.75 right now. Basically a V2 with the latest software that I got compliments of the other Superspiller beta-tester I was referring to.

Nothing against the super spiller guys. In fact, I really liked the programmer in Australia. They’re both highly competent engineers. But the guy in Denmark made an early mistake with that vibratory tube and he is stubborn as a mule, and simply will not consider any other design, so that device is inextricably stuck where it is at. No hope of a fix.
Thanks for this information. It's actually quite helpful in resisting the urge to just buy a ST while waiting for the IP.
 
Thanks for this information. It's actually quite helpful in resisting the urge to just buy a ST while waiting for the IP.
Don't do it. The IP is infinitely better than anything else. If anything, get the IP trickler snd just dump by hand until paul releases the whole system.
 
I have basically a gen3 auto throw with IP trickler. Shits fast as hell. I sometimes get a kernel under or over my set charge, but I have my ramp speed pretty high. I can drop charges in 8 sec. Just enough time to seat a bullet in last charged case. If all my brass prep is done, I can usually get out my powder/bullets, load 100 rds, and put everything away in 30 mins. I'm in for Pre-order on the IP drop/trickler just so I can get a second setup. Do I need it? No.......do I want it? Yes!
 
Haven’t been following this thread lately. I’m still super happy with my AT3/IP. I’m dropping powder under 10 seconds. Is the new system that much better?
The new setup will be faster. Is it enough to justify the cost is up to you. Why I’d recommend buying is that AutoTrickler is not doing anything for older systems. With the new IP setup your getting a better system that does away with the week points of the AT V2 and V3 setups and you’re not gonna need to worry about hardware upgrades any time soon.
 
The new setup will be faster. Is it enough to justify the cost is up to you. Why I’d recommend buying is that AutoTrickler is not doing anything for older systems. With the new IP setup your getting a better system that does away with the week points of the AT V2 and V3 setups and you’re not gonna need to worry about hardware upgrades any time soon.
How does it do with ball powder?
 
How does it do with ball powder?
Excellent for most. The dropper works great with ball powders and even the finest pistol powders. Dropper alone in testing was able to drop as little as 5 grains of pistol powder consistently. The powder meter with the ball powder disk works great with the Staball powders. Once you start to get powders as fine as CFE223 the powder meter has issues due to clearances required for the disk. Now Paul does have some ideas for a disk that will work with all ball powders but expect that to come out after the first batch of the new units ship.
 
Excellent for most. The dropper works great with ball powders and even the finest pistol powders. Dropper alone in testing was able to drop as little as 5 grains of pistol powder consistently. The powder meter with the ball powder disk works great with the Staball powders. Once you start to get powders as fine as CFE223 the powder meter has issues due to clearances required for the disk. Now Paul does have some ideas for a disk that will work with all ball powders but expect that to come out after the first batch of the new units ship.
Thanks I use a lot of 2000 MR.
 
The new setup will be faster. Is it enough to justify the cost is up to you. Why I’d recommend buying is that AutoTrickler is not doing anything for older systems. With the new IP setup your getting a better system that does away with the week points of the AT V2 and V3 setups and you’re not gonna need to worry about hardware upgrades any time soon.
Well, yes...but it won't do any of those wonderful things until he releases it.

Personally, I'll wait...but I'm getting old...so tell Paul to hurry! haha
 
How does it do with ball powder?
With staball, A 2520, and TAC the trickler does absolutely fantastic. I can actually drop a single "ball " more if I want to by a single click on the top of the trickler by hand. It's not ever needed, but if you want to get that .0xgr the exact same reading each time, you can. I added a little piece of steel rod inside that tube that holds the ball bearing that detents the disk to add some weight to it. Others have bought a small spring to fit in there to do the same thing so the click is a little more tactile but even without any mod, you can release a single ball if you want to.

The trickler works Excellnt for those ball powders as well as 4350 but they are different disks that it uses.
 
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would be nice to have a list with 3 categories:

  1. tested extensively, works with but a rare hiccup
  2. untested/unknown/preliminary results
  3. known issues (CFE223, etc)

Paul once told me that if it is not on the list then he has not tested it. Hopefully he has tested more and needs to update the list, but that is what is listed on his site as working with the trickler. No idea if any of these have intermittent or ocassional issues. And this is ONLY for the trickler piece. We have no idea what has been tested with the bulk dropper.


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You just trying to be funny now? I’d expect you’ll get it much sooner than that. Once everything is in full production then the next batch will be produced much faster.
Not really, but sorry, I placed my order (actually two as I had no idea how to change the first one as I bought a scale (A&D FZ120i)) about a month ago and with that many orders I was guessing about 15-20 a month ship (small business, not a huge staff) with some ramp up and a 30% cancellation rate I figured 2-3 years.