Night Vision IRay RH25 Micro video/picture thread

So you’re saying the latency allows for time travel backwards in time and you’re upset about that?

For serious would love to hear more though on what you’re experiencing. Any comment on the FOV compared to the other units in real world use?
 
Yeah, for those of us who want to use it heavily as a head-mounted unit(s) it’s very disappointing. Both of mine behave identically, in both clipon and handheld/helmet mode.

I’m hoping it is something that can be addressed with a software update. It greatly limits the usefulness for me personally, but most may not care if they’re doing stationary spotting and/or clipon/weapon use primarily.

I should add… I doubt it’s the 50Hz sensor, as even my 30Hz stuff doesn’t do this. It is something in the post processing by the time it gets to the display. Maybe it has to do with the up-rezing to the 1024 display, or perhaps some other reason, but it’s definitely VERY latent. I’ll try it tomorrow and see what the direct WiFi feed into the iRay iPhone app looks like, but I’m willing to bet it’s not in the direct video image.

Well this is surprising and disappointing. Was about to pull the trigger on one. Guess I'll wait to see the outcome.
 
That stinks to hear. I was entertaining one of these as well. Just to clarify though… does this mean that as you are looking through it and make a sudden movement, there is a lag effect as the device tries to keep up with the movement? Am I understanding this right? I could see where this is an issue when being helmet mounted as we make lots of quick movements with our head at night.
 
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That stinks to hear. I was entertaining one of these as well. Just to clarify though… does this mean that as you are looking through it and make a sudden movement, there is a lag effect as the device tries to keep up with the movement? Am I understanding this right? I could see where this is an issue when being helmet mounted as we make lots of quick movements with our head at night.
Correct. When you pan your head side-to-side the bottom of the display lags severely behind the top of the display and is very “Jell-O” like.

ETA: I’ve been pinged privately by quite a few people worried about the latency issue and talking about not ordering units as they planned, so I should offer some clarity because I don’t want to hurt anyone’s business…

The Jell-O Effect / Latency issue is really only a problem specifically if you plan to use them *primarily* as head-mounted for walking or driving ATVs/UTVs — as I do. In that particular case, then it is a real problem.

However, I assume the overwhelming majority of owners will use them predominately on a weapon and/or as a stationary spotter. In that case, the Jell-O is FAR less of a problem or likely not a problem at all.

So, in the above case the Pros definitely outweigh the Cons and I would not hesitate to buy or recommend the RH-25 to 90% of intended users.
 
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Correct. When you pan your head side-to-side the bottom of the display lags severely behind the top of the display and is very “Jell-O” like.

ETA: I’ve been pinged privately by quite a few people worried about the latency issue and talking about not ordering units as they planned, so I should offer some clarity because I don’t want to hurt anyone’s business…

The Jell-O Effect / Latency issue is really only a problem specifically if you plan to use them *primarily* as head-mounted for walking or driving ATVs/UTVs — as I do. In that particular case, then it is a real problem.

However, I assume the overwhelming majority of owners will use them predominately on a weapon and/or as a stationary spotter. In that case, the Jell-O is FAR less of a problem or likely not a problem at all.

So, in the above case the Pros definitely outweigh the Cons and I would not hesitate to buy or recommend the RH-25 to 90% of intended users.
Do you get a side of beans with that purchase...sorry couldn't help myself
 
IMPORTANT UPDATE!!!

So… we had a very long powwow with both Jay at SureShot NV and the folks at iRayUSA, and they are aware of the issue, but it’s not as serious as I thought it was.

When the unit is mounted normally, as over 90% of people will likely do, meaning the unit is right side up with the controls facing upward, there is NO Jell-O effect. It is only when you rotate the unit upside down, or invert it into helmet mode or hold it upside down that the Jell-O effect becomes noticeable. According to iRayUSA this is because of the rolling shutter on the sensor. This makes perfect sense, and they say iRay Chynah has fixed it in the normal modes but has yet to implement that fix in firmware in the other inverted or helmet modes.

So all is good in Thermal Nirvana once again. Once they come out with the fix for the rolling shutter in the inverted helmet modes this unit will be as perfect as anyone could expect at this price point.

For most of you who intend to use this as a handheld Spotter, Scanner, or weapon mounted Thermal system none of this matters because the rolling shutter issue does NOT affect any of those modes at all.

So buy with confidence from your vendor of choice, and I’m sorry if I created any panic with my premature postulations.
 
There’s also a hardware “fix” in the form of an optional dovetail mount that keeps the unit upright. It wasn’t designed as a fix for the Jell-O, but rather to be able to run twin units as binos and have sufficient distance between them to adjust for more narrow interpupilary distances.

Page 13 from the (excellent) iRayUSA Users Manual:
4609F19E-4850-495E-8C17-CA8CCAC8CA92.jpeg
 
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IMPORTANT UPDATE!!!

So… we had a very long powwow with both Jay at SureShot NV and the folks at iRayUSA….

….So buy with confidence from your vendor of choice, and I’m sorry if I created any panic with my premature postulations.
Man they really whipped you back into shape! Did they threaten to feed you chili with no beans?
 
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Correct. When you pan your head side-to-side the bottom of the display lags severely behind the top of the display and is very “Jell-O” like.

ETA: I’ve been pinged privately by quite a few people worried about the latency issue and talking about not ordering units as they planned, so I should offer some clarity because I don’t want to hurt anyone’s business…

The Jell-O Effect / Latency issue is really only a problem specifically if you plan to use them *primarily* as head-mounted for walking or driving ATVs/UTVs — as I do. In that particular case, then it is a real problem.

However, I assume the overwhelming majority of owners will use them predominately on a weapon and/or as a stationary spotter. In that case, the Jell-O is FAR less of a problem or likely not a problem at all.

So, in the above case the Pros definitely outweigh the Cons and I would not hesitate to buy or recommend the RH-25 to 90% of intended users.
Yeah I was mostly looking into running this on a rifle and not head mounted
 
"When the unit is mounted normally, as over 90% of people will likely do, meaning the unit is right side up with the controls facing upward, there is NO Jell-O effect. It is only when you rotate the unit upside down, or invert it into helmet mode or hold it upside down that the Jell-O effect becomes noticeable."

After seeing your post, I went out and walked around with the unit a bit last night. I hadn't noticed any jello-ing in the last week or so of use, but for the most part, I had been keeping it in "handheld" mode with the rounded sides/larger image.
Flip it to "helmet" mode, and the screen automatically goes to 70% size to get it into 1x unity) and I still didn't notice jello. But I should say I don't have the proper bridge/mount setup right now, so I was fighting the bridge-adapter-sandwich I'd made to get it on a TW helmet I usually use with bridged PVS14s. My bigger concern/annoyance was with it bouncing around more than wigglyscreening... so I've got to get that dialed in before I can evaluate for certain, but walking around with it didn't seem a problem.

Spotted some deer bedding down in the foothills last night around 1am, they were out past 500 yards, so with 1x pretty much looked like four legs and a head, but the thermal signature locked right on.
 
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"When the unit is mounted normally, as over 90% of people will likely do, meaning the unit is right side up with the controls facing upward, there is NO Jell-O effect. It is only when you rotate the unit upside down, or invert it into helmet mode or hold it upside down that the Jell-O effect becomes noticeable."

After seeing your post, I went out and walked around with the unit a bit last night. I hadn't noticed any jello-ing in the last week or so of use, but for the most part, I had been keeping it in "handheld" mode with the rounded sides/larger image.
Flip it to "helmet" mode, and the screen automatically goes to 70% size to get it into 1x unity) and I still didn't notice jello. But I should say I don't have the proper bridge/mount setup right now, so I was fighting the bridge-adapter-sandwich I'd made to get it on a TW helmet I usually use with bridged PVS14s. My bigger concern/annoyance was with it bouncing around more than wigglyscreening... so I've got to get that dialed in before I can evaluate for certain, but walking around with it didn't seem a problem.

Spotted some deer bedding down in the foothills last night around 1am, they were out past 500 yards, so with 1x pretty much looked like four legs and a head, but the thermal signature locked right on.
Look at the “About” screen.

Both of mine are 0108 FPGA / HW revision.

iRayUSA says it is a known problem.

Is there a FW upgrade available on the iRay app? I haven’t checked.
 
"When the unit is mounted normally, as over 90% of people will likely do, meaning the unit is right side up with the controls facing upward, there is NO Jell-O effect. It is only when you rotate the unit upside down, or invert it into helmet mode or hold it upside down that the Jell-O effect becomes noticeable."

After seeing your post, I went out and walked around with the unit a bit last night. I hadn't noticed any jello-ing in the last week or so of use, but for the most part, I had been keeping it in "handheld" mode with the rounded sides/larger image.
Flip it to "helmet" mode, and the screen automatically goes to 70% size to get it into 1x unity) and I still didn't notice jello. But I should say I don't have the proper bridge/mount setup right now, so I was fighting the bridge-adapter-sandwich I'd made to get it on a TW helmet I usually use with bridged PVS14s. My bigger concern/annoyance was with it bouncing around more than wigglyscreening... so I've got to get that dialed in before I can evaluate for certain, but walking around with it didn't seem a problem.

Spotted some deer bedding down in the foothills last night around 1am, they were out past 500 yards, so with 1x pretty much looked like four legs and a head, but the thermal signature locked right on.
Turn it upside down — controls pointing toward the ground and shoe mount toward the sky — and get back to me. ;)
 
"Turn it upside down — controls pointing toward the ground and shoe mount toward the sky — and get back to me. ;)
Both of mine are 0108 FPGA / HW revision."


Yeah, I walked around with it in helmet mode (upside down) a bit. FYI, the screen here says "FPGA-0101" and "HW-0102"
 
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"Turn it upside down — controls pointing toward the ground and shoe mount toward the sky — and get back to me. ;)
Both of mine are 0108 FPGA / HW revision."


Yeah, I walked around with it in helmet mode (upside down) a bit. FYI, the screen here says "FPGA-0101" and "HW-0102"
Interesting. You have a pre-sales unit like Jay’s (same FW revisions). Jay’s has the Jell-O effect too when inverted.
 
I’m super bummed to hear about the “jello” issues. And I think a guess that 90% of people don’t intend to helmet-mount this is laughably wrong.

Seems like a gigantic whiff of the ball for iRay to release a half-baked product like this. Why they didn’t solve this issue before releasing production units is beyond my comprehension.

I was pumped as could be about buying this. The MH25 was outstanding and reliable. The RH25 has been considerably hyped up to be a home-run optic. Really hope to see a quick fix now that there’s some feet held to the fire.
 
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I’m super bummed to hear about the “jello” issues. And I think a guess that 90% of people don’t intend to helmet-mount this is laughably wrong.

Seems like a gigantic whiff of the ball for iRay to release a half-baked product like this. Why they didn’t solve this issue before releasing production units is beyond my comprehension.

I was pumped as could be about buying this. The MH25 was outstanding and reliable. The RH25 has been considerably hyped up to be a home-run optic. Really hope to see a quick fix now that there’s some feet held to the fire.
I’m sure they’ll come up with a fix, but I kinda agree. Was there such limited testing done that no one caught it?
 
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If we’re able to make some requests for things to go in the next update - please add an option to disable the black circle around the edge in handheld/helmet mode. When adjusting picture settings a few times on a buddy’s new unit, it would flash for a sec with the fullscreen thermal image, showing how much is being concealed behind the fake rounded image. I guess they made it look like that to match PVS14s that might be on the other eye, but tossing all those edge pixels is really a shame if you can’t turn it off. They show up again in the zoomed out (image size reduced) unity mode for clipon use. Can’t remember which of the beta testers said it was a round display, but it sure looked rectangular to me when the edge concealing black mask would flash off occasionally.
 
I’m super bummed to hear about the “jello” issues. And I think a guess that 90% of people don’t intend to helmet-mount this is laughably wrong.

Seems like a gigantic whiff of the ball for iRay to release a half-baked product like this. Why they didn’t solve this issue before releasing production units is beyond my comprehension.

I was pumped as could be about buying this. The MH25 was outstanding and reliable. The RH25 has been considerably hyped up to be a home-run optic. Really hope to see a quick fix now that there’s some feet held to the fire.
They’ve already been working on it and are continuing to work on it. It’s a relatively simple fix because it’s a software update. Yes it sucks they knew about it and didn’t say anything but in all fairness, they still released a product that 95% of people will be completely happy with. I ran the thing on a helmet for two nights in a coyote hunting competition and didn’t even notice it 🤷🏻‍♂️. I was focused on killing coyotes and I wasn’t shaking my head back and forth hard enough to ever realize there was a problem. Is there a “jello” effect there? Yes absolutely, when it’s upside down there is, upright no it’s fine.

The resolutions to this problem are:

1: a software update to alter the communication between the sensor and the display so that there is no rolling shutter effect. (This definitely needs to be done)

2: buy the shoe that puts a dovetail on top of the unit so it doesn’t have to be flipped upside down when helmet mounted. Whether the unit has an issue or not this still looks to be a handy little mount, especially if you plan to run 2 of them helmet mounted because it will rotate the battery compartment towards the outside instead of towards your nose.

Hopefully they get it fixed sooner than later. If I hear anything on the progress of this I will definitely report back here!

Jay
 
If we’re able to make some requests for things to go in the next update - please add an option to disable the black circle around the edge in handheld/helmet mode. When adjusting picture settings a few times on a buddy’s new unit, it would flash for a sec with the fullscreen thermal image, showing how much is being concealed behind the fake rounded image. I guess they made it look like that to match PVS14s that might be on the other eye, but tossing all those edge pixels is really a shame if you can’t turn it off. They show up again in the zoomed out (image size reduced) unity mode for clipon use. Can’t remember which of the beta testers said it was a round display, but it sure looked rectangular to me when the edge concealing black mask would flash off occasionally.
I haven’t heard anyone else complain about the rounded edges. I also haven’t seen the edges flash off at any time. If you turn the unit off and look into the eyepiece you can still see the rounded edges on the screen. I will ask and see what they say though, maybe there’s a way to access a mode to turn it off, I will let you know if there is sir.

Jay
 
I’m sure they’ll come up with a fix, but I kinda agree. Was there such limited testing done that no one caught it?
I don’t know how many people were actually testing these but I clearly missed it. Like I said above, I ran it from dark to daylight two days in a row in a yote competition helmet mounted and never saw it. Of course I was focused on shooting dogs and not the image as much but I hunted 2 days and missed it. Usually when I was doing my testing I was using it as a clip on because that’s what most peoples interests seem to lean towards.

I’m sure we will get it fixed via software soon and it will be good to go upside down, right side up or sideways!

Jay
 
Went out last night with dual MH25’s and dual RH25’s. I never really did much with the MH’s because from Day-1 the screen view, even with PVS-14 eyepieces, wasn’t even close to the Skeets.

I was surprised to find the “Jell-O” effect also exists in the MH25 as well, but is considerably less pronounced than it is in the RH25.

The dual RH25s have SPECTACULAR image quality! The displays are still not as nicely situated for helmet mounting as the Skeets, but they are better for that than the Voodoo-S (less tunneling / demagnification) so I’d happily use the RH25’s in place of the Skeets, except… they literally made me nauseous after about 5 minutes of use. In inverted/helmet mode the RH25s are so laggy with extremely pronounced Jell-O while you’re walking and panning about.

When rightside-up in handheld or clipon mode, there is little to no lag/latency/Jell-O, so I’m trying to order the Obverse shoe mount made for the RH25, which I’m optimistic will mitigate the problem until iRay can (hopefully) release a firmware update that fixes the problem.

I could be one of a handful of people who intend to use these almost exclusively as binos on a helmet, so while this is a significant problem for me personally, it’s likely trivial or of zero importance to the bulk of most potential customers.

I’ll update once I get the Obverse mounts and hope to have better news.
 
I ran it from dark to daylight two days in a row in a yote competition helmet mounted and never saw it.

they literally made me nauseous after about 5 minutes of use. In inverted/helmet mode the RH25s are so laggy with extremely pronounced Jell-O while you’re walking and panning about.

These two "reviews" could not be more unalike 😳.
 
Went out last night with dual MH25’s and dual RH25’s. I never really did much with the MH’s because from Day-1 the screen view, even with PVS-14 eyepieces, wasn’t even close to the Skeets.

I was surprised to find the “Jell-O” effect also exists in the MH25 as well, but is considerably less pronounced than it is in the RH25.

The dual RH25s have SPECTACULAR image quality! The displays are still not as nicely situated for helmet mounting as the Skeets, but they are better for that than the Voodoo-S (less tunneling / demagnification) so I’d happily use the RH25’s in place of the Skeets, except… they literally made me nauseous after about 5 minutes of use. In inverted/helmet mode the RH25s are so laggy with extremely pronounced Jell-O while you’re walking and panning about.

When rightside-up in handheld or clipon mode, there is little to no lag/latency/Jell-O, so I’m trying to order the Obverse shoe mount made for the RH25, which I’m optimistic will mitigate the problem until iRay can (hopefully) release a firmware update that fixes the problem.

I could be one of a handful of people who intend to use these almost exclusively as binos on a helmet, so while this is a significant problem for me personally, it’s likely trivial or of zero importance to the bulk of most potential customers.

I’ll update once I get the Obverse mounts and hope to have better news.
I have a MH25; interested in the RH25 to use as a clip-on + HMT to pair with my MH, but it sounds like the pictures would be substantially different? What do your eyes see if you pair a MH and RH together?
 
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I have a MH25; interested in the RH25 to use as a clip-on + HMT to pair with my MH, but it sounds like the pictures would be substantially different? What do your eyes see if you pair a MH and RH together?
Pictures are somewhat *similar*, but you can’t use them together (I tried).

RH25 is definitely nicer.
 
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I have a MH25; interested in the RH25 to use as a clip-on + HMT to pair with my MH, but it sounds like the pictures would be substantially different? What do your eyes see if you pair a MH and RH together?
I would imagine that would be hard to do, maybe it would work but I haven’t tried it.
 
Surgeon_Shooter Your original video showed you using this with an ACOG, is that preferable? Any complaints? TheHorta Have you used it weapon mounted?
Yes the Acog works good but my 1-10 razor is much better. Just because you can back it off some for more FOV and when you find the target of choice you can zoom more to make the shot.
 
Apologies if this question has already been answered, but I didn't see it: Can "helmet mode" be accomplished on the right eye in "button-up" configuration with the hardware that comes in the box? I'm not talking about buying the extra obverse micro helmet shoe.

Also, is the USA manual online anywhere?
 
Can "helmet mode" be accomplished on the right eye in "button-up" configuration with the hardware that comes in the box? I'm not talking about buying the extra obverse micro helmet shoe.

Seems to me that "clip on mode" has kinda the same end result as "helmet mode" in that:

"In HELMET MODE allows the RH25 display to be optimized for use on a helmet. In helmet mode, the screen size is reduced to 70% to be in unity (1×). To enter helmet mode: 1. Rotate the MICRO 180° (control buttons facing down) to automatically activate helmet mode.

"In CLIP‑ON MODE the RH25 can be mounted in front of a riflescope.3 In clip-on mode, the screen size is reduced to 70% to be in unity (1×).
"

As far as what comes in the box, obviously you know there's always something needed between your helmet and your eyeball that's not included... Usually a sandwich of G24, someone's bridge or single-arm mount, dovetail thingies, etc. The manual says that the optic comes with a MUM-type "OEM Helmet Adapter Rail" to get things started, but it's up to the individual to supply the rest of their personalized mounting solution. I haven't messed around with it on a helmet much. I walked around with it to see if I could replicate the jello thing (I couldn't really replicate it, but don't doubt anyone's feedback: I only have one of the optics, mounted sort of wonky. Maybe it's more pronounced with two units bridged, or my firmware is different, or whatever...), but I'd think the Wilcox type bridge could be the best solution to give max positioning options.
 
Apologies if this question has already been answered, but I didn't see it: Can "helmet mode" be accomplished on the right eye in "button-up" configuration with the hardware that comes in the box? I'm not talking about buying the extra obverse micro helmet shoe.

Also, is the USA manual online anywhere?
Helmet mode is automatically engaged when the unit detects that it has been inverted. You see a little helmet icon pop-up in the upper left corner next to the text. It happens instantly (like in 1/10th of a second).

After thinking about it more, all iRay would have to do to INSTANTLY fix the Jell-O problem would be to include a way in the menus to DISABLE the automatic switch to “Helmet Mode” (yes, the menus would be upside down, but that’s a very minor issue, as it is with the Voodoo-S).

This would “LOCK” the RH25 into “Clipon” mode and should eliminate or greatly reduce the Jell-O effect, making the unit usable as a dedicated helmet thermal.
 
Helmet mode is automatically engaged when the unit detects that it has been inverted. You see a little helmet icon pop-up in the upper left corner next to the text. It happens instantly (like in 1/10th of a second).

After thinking about it more, all iRay would have to do to INSTANTLY fix the Jell-O problem would be to include a way in the menus to DISABLE the automatic switch to “Helmet Mode” (yes, the menus would be upside down, but that’s a very minor issue, as it is with the Voodoo-S).

This would “LOCK” the RH25 into “Clipon” mode and should eliminate or greatly reduce the Jell-O effect, making the unit usable as a dedicated helmet thermal.
But that raises the question I have here.

If you flip the unit upside down (buttons down) and the menu is upside down to the viewer. Then the user flips his side by side upside down in a swamp, would the menu still be upside down in reference to the upside down user?

Kinda like a tree falling in the woods 😂