Is body armor necessary for a civilian?

[The King]

Some pretty good points, this one being completely on point

I train with and do cardio in my shit a few times a week and it still kicks my ass. I don’t claim to be any kind of athlete but I work out 1.5 hours a day 5 days a week and hike in most weekend, with a pack or kit and wearing armor fucking sucks the life out of me over the miles. It’s not so much the weight as it is shedding the heat.

Still, I enjoy is. Embrace the suck and all…. If you get decent with it on you can really cover some ground with it in the truck.

Not sure WTF a larp is? Some fucking millennial internet shit?

I do lots of mountain stuff and I can pretty much pick between my ruck and a chest rig or armor and an assault pack.

I can’t do armor and the ruck. It’s just a no.

 

[Emerson0311]

Not unless you get shot at by a decent marksman.

 

[Emerson0311]

I just know that I do NOT feel bullet proof by wearing a 10x12 plate on my chest.
There's a whole bunch of the rest of me to hit that is unprotected and very vulnerable.

Sometimes listening to some of my buddies talk about their armor - they forget that little detail.

That’s what getting shot at is all about. Like Vegas with a 2 week girlfriend, never know how things might turn out.

 

[FatBoy]

I can’t do armor and the ruck. It’s just a no.

Same. If I have the PC on my pack is 3qts of water, some food, socks, shirt and and a decent first aide kit. Maybe, If I’m feeling froggy, I’ll move my mags and a mid-sized pistol into the bag. Helps keep my delts sore so I’m “used” to it.

I changed to Lv3+ Multi curve plates last year. After four back surgeries my max load load is about 45# so I can either move a shit load onto a belt which fucking sucks and hurts my hips or buy lightness which also sucks but it sucks less. The 3+s are a compromise, kind of like a pocket carry pistol. Not great but if ya got it, better than the .45 at the house.

 

[Choid]

I see fat people.

 

[FatBoy]

I see fat people.

That’s power thank you

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Seeing some of the idiots that go to the range is reason enough for me. I’ve seen hundreds of bullet holes at indoor ranges almost all from handguns at or behind the firing line and I’ve even seen a couple happen. I wear a concealable 3A vest when I go to the indoor range to shoot pistols, it’s a little peace of mind if nothing else.

 

[WannabeWoodsman]

Look, I know that body armor is very useful. As a civilian that has absolutely no intention of getting in a shoot out. It seems to have no purpose for me. However my close friend keeps insisting that I get LVL4 ceramic plates and a carrier. Should I buy them or is this just hype? If "Stuff" hits the fan, I'm not going to make myself look like a target.
Am I wrong? Am I missing something?

I live pretty close to areas that had riots. I've got armor with side plates and am working on a k-pod (helmet) now.

Forget what others say definitively. Assess your situation. Look at your risk of riots, gang activity etc and decide for yourself.

Personally, I say having SOMETHING and WEARING IT (to get used to it and ensure proper fit) isn't necessarily a bad idea. Nobody thought a virus would spread and create chaos 3 years ago yet here we are.

 

[WannabeWoodsman]

Make your own decisions like a man and stop looking for validation from others.

Sounds like he's trying to get clarity not validation.

 

[AirGunShawn]

#77.... By your logic, If a person tends to expose themselves to potential trouble, they should have the appropriate gear!!
I agree with that..... That is not my life.

If I didn't fly, I would not buy any of that safety gear.

And when I fly, dive or climb, I never put on the gear until I'm nearly ready to go. I don't sleep In it the night before.

The money I spend on guns and ammo is for target shooting in the immediate furure and not some off in the future
"what if Canada attacks" type of thinking.

I couldn't care less what anyone else does, I'm not going to buy any more personal protection than I have now. What I have now is just a bunch of
pistols, rifles and ammo that I already shoot. My life doesn't take me into the ghetto..... and I don't run around playing war games or training.

It sounds like your suggesting that you know my life better than I do and that you think I need to spend money on protection.
Nobody can convince me that I need to buy the gear that they think I should. Not Plates, scope, MREs, etc.
Conversely, when people tell me that I don't need a 5-50x56 scope to shoot, all they are saying is that they don't
fully understand my life and needs.

Do what you want to do. I will save my money and go back to Belize for 5 weeks and dive with nurse sharks.

Maybe I need to get all new locks for the house? And a third dog. And a shotgun.

My Gal-Pal and her boyfriend...... No fitness budget for armor or other genuine needs but plenty of money for chew, cigarettes
and $8.50 iced tea daily. Thank God I'm not from here. Stinking, broke town!!

Let me start this over.... If you want it, but it!!

So, by your logic, if one tends to avoid trouble, then why bother even having anything to protect yourself?

if you "have a habit of putting yourself in a position to need them," chances are you will have a short life expectancy.

Assuming a somewhat functional society, lawyers, ambulance and hospitals are usually readily available, IF you manage to stay alive to need their services.
Having body armour can increase your chances of living to be able to take advantage of their services, assuming you have it available when you might needed it and actually wear it. No guarantee, but if you are spending thousands on guns and ammo, it would be foolish not to spend the extra $300 to $1k on some body armour just incase you need it one day.

 

[sleeplz]

 

[ubet]

I have it, never thought I'd buy it, but after the summer of antifa I thought it was a good idea. Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. Watch videos from that summer, a bunch of those antifas were wearing armor, maybe not hard plates but definitely soft armor.

 

[308pirate]

Watch videos from that summer, a bunch of those antifas were wearing armor, maybe not hard plates but definitely soft armor.

 

[308pirate]

Sounds like he's trying to get clarity not validation.

Same thing.

@AirGunShawn gets it

 

[Txshooter3]

It depends.
Do you live in Chicago?

 

[Txshooter3]

It depends. Do you live in Chicago?

 

[Txshooter3]

Edit for dup

 

[impactaddict]

 

[roostercogburn98]

 

[JoshPutman]

If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a ball!

But not a bullet.

 

[Makinchips208]

Anyone have more scuba pics?
And do you wear body armor while diving?

 

[DocRDS]

Where do we get 5XLT Plates? Asking for a friend...

 

[earthquake]

I just know that I do NOT feel bullet proof by wearing a 10x12 plate on my chest.
There's a whole bunch of the rest of me to hit that is unprotected and very vulnerable.

Sometimes listening to some of my buddies talk about their armor - they forget that little detail.

 

[MadDuner]

View attachment 7808960

Exactly.

 

[W54/XM-388]

View attachment 7808960

 

[earthquake]

 

[TheGerman]

If you're prepping for the end of the world, practice being able to keep at least 1,000 yards away from unwelcome guests.

I've heard this now for 15+ years. While true, this will not be the case 98% of the time. The whole 'Im going to have people in my cross-hairs at 700 yards that are trying to harm me' thing should be nowhere near a Plan A.

Fine, so you're also not going out and about on a patrol through your neighborhood or the area you live in. That's good; thats not my plan either unless during the planning phase on what we're doing and the need for it dictate so. For a small element, CONUS, during times you may need armor, patrolling is again, (or at least shouldn't be) nowhere near Plan A.

I actually had the whole 'should I get body armor' conversation with a friend yesterday. He shoots precision guns but doesn't go out and do any of the tacticool shit. Why does he need armor? Simple answer is why not? You'll most likely be static, in a defensive position in your house. Weight considerations go down at that point; why not have armor? Learn how to set up a simple layout, reload, shoulder/shoot comfortably with the carrier on and figure out the best/worst spots in both your house and property to be in/not to be in. Communicate with others living there as to what the plan and backup plan as well as rally points are. Have radios available and know how to use them and communicate effectively. This is all about as tacticool as having a fire extinguisher in your house.

Increase your odds against me and a squad of guys who have planned on how to assault you with the proper equipment? Not really. For everything else? Absolutely.

You also don't need 3.8lb plates like I have.

 

[The King]

 

[W54/XM-388]

Not armour, but I like your style...

 

[The King]

If you think you are going to be dealing with stingrays as a diver its a good idea to use armor - this isn't sarcasm. They also made armor for people that work around coral reefs.

 

[FatBoy]

Communicate with others living there as to what the plan and backup plan as well as rally points are. Have radios available and know how to use them and communicate with them.

I’d be fucked in my neighborhood, as my closest buddy is probably 30 minutes out but so many people forget you win as a team. Communicate is one of the big 3, and I think it’s overlooked by most. Everyone (almost) practices shoot. Some practice move. Who learns how to use a short wave??

You also don't need 3.8lb plates like I have.

The hell you say…. But Sub 4# level fours are not for us poors….

 

[StLPro2A]

Look, I know that body armor is very useful. As a civilian that has absolutely no intention of getting in a shoot out. It seems to have no purpose for me. However my close friend keeps insisting that I get LVL4 ceramic plates and a carrier. Should I buy them or is this just hype? If "Stuff" hits the fan, I'm not going to make myself look like a target.
Am I wrong? Am I missing something?

Daddy always said...."An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure." First, get a copy/take a course/develop proficiency in LEFT OF BANG.....the Combat Hunter Profile Technique....identify environment anomalies/act.....so you recognize threats and act before you experience the BANG. Combat Hunter proficiency saves more brave Marine lives than all the body armor. Then, spend your armor money on a rifle, ammo, and skill building that delivers precision fire at distances well beyond where originating incoming rounds would necessitate you wear body armor. Let your buddy in body armor be your long range early warning. Let him clear those structures. Many dead warriors are wearing body armor......they're just heavier to put in body bags. Experience consistently confirms that standoff distance is your best friend in any circumstance involving incoming rounds. And, knowledge/skill/distance don't add weight to your kit as body armor does.......hump more offense than defense. Then, once competent and equipped properly, enjoy making the other poor SOB regret making his purchase decision for body armor. Just a really, really old guy-that-is-still-kicking's thoughts. YMMV, but experience teaches to doubt it.

 

[McCrazy]

You should absolutely avoid situations where there is a need for body armor.

However, as we see from time to time with riots, looting, and other violent circumstances the situations sometimes find you.

At that point it would be worth the few hundred dollars to have the added protection to help keep you alive. Trying to order it online and get it in a few days already puts you well behind the power curve.

That said, I wouldn't go with ceramic plates like the OP mentioned as they shatter and can only take a very limited amount of hits. The AR-500 plates are much more resilient and can be had with anti-splatter coatings.

Is the body armor necessary? Probably not.

But to be honest, 99% of us will likely never use any of our firearms in a self defense scenario either. That doesn't stop us from spending a bunch of time and money.

 

[UpSideDown]

Daddy always said...."An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure." First, get a copy/take a course/develop proficiency in LEFT OF BANG.....the Combat Hunter Profile Technique....identify environment anomalies/act.....so you recognize threats and act before you experience the BANG. Combat Hunter proficiency saves more brave Marine lives than all the body armor. Then, spend your armor money on a rifle, ammo, and skill building that delivers precision fire at distances well beyond where originating incoming rounds would necessitate you wear body armor. Let your buddy in body armor be your long range early warning. Let him clear those structures. Many dead warriors are wearing body armor......they're just heavier to put in body bags. Experience consistently confirms that standoff distance is your best friend in any circumstance involving incoming rounds. And, knowledge/skill/distance don't add weight to your kit as body armor does.......hump more offense than defense. Then, once competent and equipped properly, enjoy making the other poor SOB regret making his purchase decision for body armor. Just a really, really old guy-that-is-still-kicking's thoughts. YMMV, but experience teaches to doubt it.

My Left Of Bang Spidey Senses™ are telling me that the armed mob lighting cars on fire and shooting at people a block from my house may pose a threat to my family. I'm glad I read that extremely dry book about which direction Bang comes from!

 

[Nebulous]

As a civi that just bought a carrier and some soft plates last week I figured I'd drop my 2c just because it might be a little different.
I started working for an AR parts manufacture last year (loving it) and most of my coworkers are ex some military branch and I stated shooting with two former marines who like running drills and all sorts of stuff.
I personally got into shooting from hunting with my in-laws a good number of years ago; that brought me here and down the rabbit hole of precision bolt guns and reloading.
Fast forward to today I now have two ARs and was thinking about just getting a chest rig and belt setup to start training with my friends. Once I stated talking to them they were like what about lightweight carrier? Because you can at least put some soft plates in it and throw it in your car since we live in Florida. On top of that with my media background I have started dabbling with some gun/shooting content (because of them) and figured if I'm going to be working around active shooting, spalling, ricochet maybe having some basic protection would be a good idea.
I haven't gotten to shoot with it on since I only got everything a few days ago. But as others have said wearing 10x12 plates really doesn't make me feel that much safer, if anything it makes me more aware of how vulnerable our bodies are.
Do I feel weird wearing it, yeah. Do I think I'll ever really need the armor, no. Do I feel kinda LARPy, yeah. But the longer I have this thing the more I am looking at it more like the fire extinguisher on top of my fridge...
In case anyone cared I bought a Crye SPC and some IIIa soft plates from spartan armor. The SPC is probably way more than I need but, again Florida, I liked the breath-ability and lightness in its design, if I get more LARPy I can build out to something more beefy. Also I was told I can't buy shit since I could end up on camera.
These are my reasons for owning something, which are most definitely not your reasons for owning something but you could also just look at your purchases the Rick Sanchez way because its always good for the economy.

 

[Jscb1b]

As a civi that just bought a carrier and some soft plates last week I figured I'd drop my 2c just because it might be a little different.
I started working for an AR parts manufacture last year (loving it) and most of my coworkers are ex some military branch and I stated shooting with two former marines who like running drills and all sorts of stuff.
I personally got into shooting from hunting with my in-laws a good number of years ago; that brought me here and down the rabbit hole of precision bolt guns and reloading.
Fast forward to today I now have two ARs and was thinking about just getting a chest rig and belt setup to start training with my friends. Once I stated talking to them they were like what about lightweight carrier? Because you can at least put some soft plates in it and throw it in your car since we live in Florida. On top of that with my media background I have started dabbling with some gun/shooting content (because of them) and figured if I'm going to be working around active shooting, spalling, ricochet maybe having some basic protection would be a good idea.
I haven't gotten to shoot with it on since I only got everything a few days ago. But as others have said wearing 10x12 plates really doesn't make me feel that much safer, if anything it makes me more aware of how vulnerable our bodies are.
Do I feel weird wearing it, yeah. Do I think I'll ever really need the armor, no. Do I feel kinda LARPy, yeah. But the longer I have this thing the more I am looking at it more like the fire extinguisher on top of my fridge...
In case anyone cared I bought a Crye SPC and some IIIa soft plates from spartan armor. The SPC is probably way more than I need but, again Florida, I liked the breath-ability and lightness in its design, if I get more LARPy I can build out to something more beefy. Also I was told I can't buy shit since I could end up on camera.
These are my reasons for owning something, which are most definitely not your reasons for owning something but you could also just look at your purchases the Rick Sanchez way because its always good for the economy.

Why can't you buy shit if you're on camera?

 

[Nebulous]

Sorry I guess that was poorly written, they just didn't want me to get something that would be commented on if I shows up in the background of shots and what not. I'm not really in on the tacticool operator scene so what ever. I just wanted something that would breath.

 

[FatBoy]

Sorry I guess that was poorly written, they just didn't want me to get something that would be commented on if I shows up in the background of shots and what not. I'm not really in on the tacticool operator scene so what ever. I just wanted something that would breath.

Could be worst. That CNN chick had a dildo on her shelf in a live shot. Of course, over there it would likely be much more acceptable than anything firearms related.

You worried about it, slap a PRESS placard on it, instant cred!

 

[MarinePMI]

Could be worst. That CNN chick had a dildo on her shelf in a live shot. Of course, over there it would likely be much more acceptable than anything firearms related.

You worried about it, slap a PRESS placard on it, instant cred!

Better yet, get a velcro placard that says "Press" in the standard yellow(?), and then also have one that says the same thing in IR readable print (usually in black) so LE can see you when they're running NV. Tacticool, and practicool.

Tactical gear junkie (website) could probably hook you up (I had them make a few custom ones for me for another project)...

 

[Blutroop]

If your a civilian you need to be wearing a vest in your house while you sleep. Civilians are more likely to be shot in their bed asleep then actual criminals are. Statistically your more likely to be shot at the wrong address as a citizen then at the right address as a criminal. Just saying. Oh watch your propane too. That shit will get taken from you at gunpoint in the middle of winter. Get a vest for your kids too.

 

[Adaboy76]

Look, I know that body armor is very useful. As a civilian that has absolutely no intention of getting in a shoot out. It seems to have no purpose for me. However my close friend keeps insisting that I get LVL4 ceramic plates and a carrier. Should I buy them or is this just hype? If "Stuff" hits the fan, I'm not going to make myself look like a target.
Am I wrong? Am I missing something?

Depends on whether you plan on submitting to any threats if shtf. If you don’t plan on submitting, would you rather have something between the threat and your vitals or not? Not to mention, if society were to break down, those who don’t look like they are capable of defending themselves will by default, look like a target to those who would take what they might have.

 

[Awag1000]

I was talking about body armor at work, and a coworker of mine claims that some guy did a test on YT wearing RMA level 4 armor that it stopped a 308 and walked it off like it was nothing. I tried looking for it but I couldn't find it. I don't believe it at all that you can take a round of 308 to a armor plate and not crack any ribs and/or just walk it off like it was nothing. Coworker insisted this was true.

With my tiny understanding of physics his claim makes no sense.
I understand that you won't die if you are struck on the plate with a 308 but I'm pretty sure you'll be on the ground sucking air for a bit.

I could be wrong about this though.

 

[Awag1000]

apparently when you are expecting the shot....you can walk off a 7.62x39 pretty easily...no idea on the load used though



no idea on the round in this vid, but it caught this kid off guard and put im on his ass....kid was shot by a "sniper" in some shithole country....so probably 7.62x54R or 7.62x39

So technically speaking it isn't improbable. If it was a 54R, it still put him on his ass regardless.

 

[hlee]

apparently when you are expecting the shot....you can walk off a 7.62x39 pretty easily...no idea on the load used though

Italian, so probably Fiocci. Could have substituted a heavy Tee shirt for the vest...

 

[ArTeeKay]

So technically speaking it isn't improbable. If it was a 54R, it still put him on his ass regardless.

No. How many times do we have to go over this? If the recoil of the rifle doesn't knock you over, the impact of the bullet, similarly, will not knock you over. If you do in fact fall down on impact from a bullet, you were likely in a marginally stable position to begin with.

Realize that a hard armor plate spreads impact energy over a much larger area than that of a butt of a rifle.

 

[MarinePMI]

apparently when you are expecting the shot....you can walk off a 7.62x39 pretty easily...no idea on the load used though



no idea on the round in this vid, but it caught this kid off guard and put im on his ass....kid was shot by a "sniper" in some shithole country....so probably 7.62x54R or 7.62x39

That last video looks, (and sounds like) whoever was capturing the video were insurgents, just waiting to capture the kill on camera. Fuck those guys...

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

 

[W54/XM-388]

So he shot a fairly powerful rifle at close range against armour rated only for pistol bullets and shotgun pellets.

It would have actually useful if he happened to test what they were designed to stop and run impact tests to see how much impact your face would take and all that.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

So he shot a fairly powerful rifle at close range against armour rated only for pistol bullets and shotgun pellets.

It would have actually useful if he happened to test what they were designed to stop and run impact tests to see how much impact your face would take and all that.

Did you even watch the video before commenting or just here to shit on it?

He starts with 22 and works his way up. Point is that shit is worthless.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Did you even watch the video before commenting or just here to shit on it?

He starts with 22 and works his way up. Point is that shit is worthless.

I watched from the link which is set to start at a specific point.
So nope I didn't watch the whole thing before commenting.
But your linking skills suck, next time make sure your link doesn't jump to a time stamp unless that's where you want people to go.

So, I watched the beginning of the video, and well it did stop several common pistol rounds.
That being said, you were going to be going to the hospital with a busted face, but you'd be going to the hospital, not the morgue.

Try those same tests at the same distance with a standard IIIA soft vest and you'll find similar, if you aren't wearing plates, bigger stuff will send you to the hospital from blunt force wounds, but you'll be in the hospital not the morgue.

That being said, there is going to be a difference between what you get mail order from china for a couple dollars, he didn't really specify the quality or who made the ones he got or what they were made out of. The deformation looked suspiciously like steel with a thin cover sprayed over it and not the thicker ones with a ceramic part on the front.

The bigger issue however is that regardless of the stopping power, at a certain level you are just getting too much blunt force impact to the head.
So your common shotgun, .22, 9mm and such common street guns, it's going to mean hospital vs dead.

Something else to think about is that in more chaotic situations, you might be getting things coming at you from further away and ricochets from random directions.