How important is a super clean primer pocket for accuracy? I understand that flash hole has to be open/consistent with no debri blocking the flash, but what if I dont bother too much about getting a super clean primer pocket, does it have any material impact on accuracy? ...thanks for sharing your inputs.
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Is cleaning primer pocket really needed?
- Thread starter harry_x1
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An unobstructed flash hole is important, a shiny clean primer pocket is not.
I remember watching a video many years ago from a benchrest shooter who tested clean vs untouched primer pockets. The results if I remember correctly were exactly the same.
I clean mine because it takes about 2 seconds per case. Just knock the big powder debris out
I clean mine because it takes about 2 seconds per case. Just knock the big powder debris out
I don't clean mine because the results are exactly the same and 2 seconds per case adds up.
If I had to rank ‘super clean primer pockets’ on a list of things that impact a load’s performance, it’d be at or near the bottom.
If you want them cleaned for aesthetic reasons, simply deprime your brass before tossing them in the tumbler.
Exactly
Do I think it helps anything? Absolutely not
Does it contain my need to be massively anal when I’m prepping my brass? Yes
That’s why I do it
After watching that video (I don’t have time to search for it but it was recorded during a training class for benchrest shooting if someone has time to look for it) I said “I’m wasting my time” but my brain can’t just let me not do it. So there goes 2 seconds of my life on every case
Now tumbling the brass in corn cob/walnut media and not checking the flash hole for stuck granules would be a no no for me. That I always check for
For me it's the toll it takes on my hands. Trimming, chamfering and de-burring is painful enough.
ETA:
I run a depriming die in the first station to ensure the flash holes are clear. Have seen a piece of media stuck inside many a time.
ETA:
I run a depriming die in the first station to ensure the flash holes are clear. Have seen a piece of media stuck inside many a time.
I use Thumlers tumblers, gets the dirtiest nastiest brass spit shine clean in a couple hours or so. Nothing to get stuck in the pockets. I stopped using dry tumblers with corn cob media a long time ago.
Right, there’s several methods
I was just adding to the obstruction in the flash hole comment above which can be an issue when using media
Primers seat with a smooth feeling in a clean pocket and my dillon no longer hangs up on one.
Crimped pockets get reemed, swaged and uniformed. Others get swaged and uniformed.
All get tumbled without a primer.
They sell 400 $ primer seating tools to people here, so to me a clean pocket is just one thing I can control with what I have.
I have had 1 primer fail to fire in 223 in the last 4 or 5 bricks of primers.
Crimped pockets get reemed, swaged and uniformed. Others get swaged and uniformed.
All get tumbled without a primer.
They sell 400 $ primer seating tools to people here, so to me a clean pocket is just one thing I can control with what I have.
I have had 1 primer fail to fire in 223 in the last 4 or 5 bricks of primers.
I agree with Snubbys line of thinking.
It's been proven that primer seating DOES matter. If you have carbon built up in the primer pocket, some will sit deeper than others.
I have a Sinclair primer pocket uniformer. I decap everything, then use the uniformer in my drill to quickly hit each pocket as I drop them into the tumbler.
Does it matter? I have no idea. I can't see how that crud could be good for anything though. And I've seen the same brass and loads produce varying amounts of crud.
It's been proven that primer seating DOES matter. If you have carbon built up in the primer pocket, some will sit deeper than others.
I have a Sinclair primer pocket uniformer. I decap everything, then use the uniformer in my drill to quickly hit each pocket as I drop them into the tumbler.
Does it matter? I have no idea. I can't see how that crud could be good for anything though. And I've seen the same brass and loads produce varying amounts of crud.
It just feels like good manners to me.
no you don't have too do anything you don"t want to , but if its plugged and the spark can"t travel through to the powder it"s your ammo not mine that won't fire who wants to pay for and waste a primer . A primer is a terrible thing to waste . though I do wonder about washing as an extra step as after I pull my used primers and clean the now empty pockets , I do use 0004 steel wool on the case to polish off my writing on it and its cleaner inside and out with out wishing with the help of a drill .
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Tumble with stainless chips, dirty primer pockets are history.
I clean them because I have the time.
Since I’ve gotten the cps and I measure the actual depth and anvil crush etc I can tell with a 205m that has barely any anvil protrusion that you can’t seat them all the same, it’s an observable effect on a caliper.
With a 450 that has lots of anvils protrusion you can seat it “half way” down and not full crush and it will measure the same. Obviously you have a differing amount of crush on each one then by the amount of build up but I can’t shoot the difference. I just can see and measure it and I’m sitting on the couch watching a movie anyways so I might as well occupy my time a bit with scraping.
Since I’ve gotten the cps and I measure the actual depth and anvil crush etc I can tell with a 205m that has barely any anvil protrusion that you can’t seat them all the same, it’s an observable effect on a caliper.
With a 450 that has lots of anvils protrusion you can seat it “half way” down and not full crush and it will measure the same. Obviously you have a differing amount of crush on each one then by the amount of build up but I can’t shoot the difference. I just can see and measure it and I’m sitting on the couch watching a movie anyways so I might as well occupy my time a bit with scraping.
A) Where is the objective evidence?
B) To whom does it matter? To a benchrester? Hunter? Service Rifle competitor? Police marksman? Military sniper?
So?
So long as the primer doesn't move when the pin hits it, ignition will be the same.
I think that it gives a more consistent primer seating depth.....which may or may not give more consistent ignition. It also eliminates the potential for carbon to block or partially block the flash hole.
Likely the most significant thing that it provides.....peace of mind! memtb
To all the people clogging flash holes.
Wallmart lizard pet bedding wallnut will pass through flash holes. A little dusty on first use but wax and mineral spirits takes care of that.
I put them neck down in a tray to look for damage and rarely find a clog. You have to run the tumbler till the wax and mineral spirits flash off.
Wallmart lizard pet bedding wallnut will pass through flash holes. A little dusty on first use but wax and mineral spirits takes care of that.
I put them neck down in a tray to look for damage and rarely find a clog. You have to run the tumbler till the wax and mineral spirits flash off.
Some Benchrest and F Class shooters measure and test stuff like that.
Ignition and lock time make a difference down range. Proper firing pin fall and protrusion, firing pin spring etc.
To me, it's kinda like carbon in the throat. A little bit is usually fine. Let it build up and you'll likely have issues.
I take those 5 seconds or so per case to do my case inspection.
I haven't seen a difference from it. But it doesn't take much time from me and I think after a few firings it could make a difference.
Primer pockets on certain brass also varies a bunch I've found. Just makes sense to me to have it a uniform depth and keep the crud from building up. Maybe a waste of time. But I've been doing it to every rifle case for the last 15 years.
I wouldn't loose sleep if I forgot to run the uniformer.
We all have our processes. Do what works for you.
Uniformer vs scraper
Not the same things.
Not arguing, just pointing out that what some people are talking about on forums isnt what other people are talking about.
I've used walnut pet bedding for 20 years now. I've never had a cruddy primer pocket in all that time.
I understand that there are different tools. I use the uniformer to clean. Whatever the uniformer leaves, stays.
Sinclair uniformer on once fired factory brass, amazed at how much comes out. Helps to see rare off center flash holes and another rudimentary inspection. I also run the K&M flash hole uniformer on all of them the first time, again surprised at the amount of shavings and burrs. This goes for Hornady and FGMM or other "Match" brass.
I skipped it on new Lapua brass
Does it make a difference, prolly not.
I skipped it on new Lapua brass
Does it make a difference, prolly not.
I spend about an hour cleaning my primer pockets. I get them perfectly clean.
Of course, it's the hour I've got them in the ultrasonic...
Of course, it's the hour I've got them in the ultrasonic...
This.
If I’m shooting groups I’ll go through everything meticulously. If shooting steel there are only a few things that make any discernible difference down range and clean primer pockets isn’t one of them.
My stainless tumbler cleans my primer pockets. I don’t see an accuracy benefit from it, but it makes me feel good knowing that I’m pissing off some slob out there who doesn’t wipe his ass.
If your business involves selling primer pocket brushes, primer pocket uniformers, and flash hole uniforming tools then the answer is an emphatic yes.
Loading brass with dirty pockets is like putting on dirty underwear for the day.
You could do a blind test with 15 rounds each. 10 clean, 10 dirty and 10 mix.
I like the ease of priming and consistant feel of it. Some of my 223 rounds are for armageddon and may be long stored (maybe not) so a clean pocket with a thin wax coat can't hurt.
Some here have powder throwers that resolve to 0.05gr I don't I have only 0.1gr available but if I had both guess what.
Controll what you can with what you have.
I like the ease of priming and consistant feel of it. Some of my 223 rounds are for armageddon and may be long stored (maybe not) so a clean pocket with a thin wax coat can't hurt.
Some here have powder throwers that resolve to 0.05gr I don't I have only 0.1gr available but if I had both guess what.
Controll what you can with what you have.
You don't ever have to clean them again if you get a Frankford wet tumbler (eBay is way cheaper) especially w brass wash. Get the Lee tumbler (cheapest one). I've mever heard any thing about this but I also believe that because it cleans the inside of the brass, it's more consistant. After lube etc I dry tumble.
This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
A clean primer pocket prevents primers seated short, and standing "proud". That can, and does help prevent slam fires in many semi auto firearms. I learned decades ago not to shortcut reloading. The risk vs. the reward simply isn't there.
The guys are right about the accuracy potential of cleaning primer pockets. However, an important reloading concept was missed. Primers are not flat on the bottom. They are shaped more like a curve. The outside of the curve sits against the bottom of the primer pocket. Yes the flash hole needs to be centered and free of obstruction. After a case has been fired several times a residue from primer compound builds up. Depending on the primer manufacture, type of primer, case, etc a build up can occur causing the next loading to exhibit high primers. As another stated spending two seconds per case is not a waist of time and may save you from an (Awww….Damm) AD. No the primer pocket doesn’t have to be shinny clean like new brass but the big chunks of fouling should be removed.
I estimate that I loaded somewhere between 8,000 and 12,000 rounds of 223 Remington in the years that I competed in NRA highpower. I stopped fucking with primer pockets about six months after I started reloading. I never once had a single slam fire.
My undiagnosed OCD caused major issues with my family years ago. It wasn't bad enough that I was very hard on myself, but I insisted my wife and kids be as perfect as I was trying to be. I could not teach my kids how to drive because they weren't doing it as good as I thought they should. Cleaning up after themselves had to be immediate and up to an almost unattainable standard. OCD is a real issue, at least for me it was. After being diagnosed, I learned methods to not be so hard on myself or my family. I still MUST have all labels facing forward so anyone can read them. I still immediately put away the stuff used to cook a meal, with no exceptions. I've learned to just put things away instead of getting upset and yelling at my family if they didn't put those things away immediately. I could go on and on, but you get the issues.
For a few years it was really tough going.
Despite my preference for minimal handloading effort, it's so easy, I just do it as part of my case prep.
I can. I competed in High Power for years with an M1A exclusively. Never once have I had a slam fire and I don't waste time cleaning primer pockets.
I've even intentionally left a corn or walnut kernel in the flash hole and chronographed it against one with a clear flash hole in my Defiance 6.5 Creedmoor. There was not enough difference to matter.
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