Coalescing around the lowest common denominator over subjective and impertinent trivialities instead of simply defining objective criteria and presenting evidence, i.e. emotional response vs logical discussion... anyone else note the irony?
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This is why you can't have an intelligent conversation on the internet. People like you resort to ad hominem when you don't possess the knowledge to debate like an adult.
Wait, so its not cool to own a 308 anymore? Dang. I just put the money down to have one built.
You will never hit anything !!!Wait, so its not cool to own a 308 anymore? Dang. I just put the money down to have one built.
But I read it’s just like the 50 caliber if it comes close enough to you it can still take your arm off!Dude u will never
You will never hit anything !!!
I actually felt like I was cheating on my 308 today. The RPR 6.5 is nice right out of the box.
Agreed that .308Win isn’t optimal in the mountains (Afghanistan) or desert (Iraq), this is why UK snipers have moved to .338LM. But for fun, for hunting it’s still not bad and not high-cost solution, as mentioned above.
Ironically here where I live I can only find 6.5 and the 308 is sold out.In these times? When ammo is scarce and money is tight... Those with a 308 in the safe can still find the ammo on the cheap and you can find it anywhere that sells ammo.
if you own a .308 for all of the right reasons, that would not matter.Ironically here where I live I can only find 6.5 and the 308 is sold out.
Do you just say whatever comes to your head??? A PKM doesn’t out range an M240 let alone a 308 bolt gun. DsHk? We have the M2 which is better. Bro now you are getting personal and that’s fine. I will just keep in factual. American tactics have evolved just like Warfare does. We get better. The American warrior is the best in the world despite what you think of themWe have been getting outranged in Afghanistan since 2001. Small cops and PB's have routinely been outranged by PKM and even DshK if they are willing to hump it in. Rockets and RPGs from above(some say they are disabling the rpg's self destruct, increasing its range) Due to the terrible placement of many of our cops (see Battle of Wannat, Kamdesh,ect ) with surrounding ridges its has very easy to outrange us , raining down fire. It is why they brought it TOW systems to certain bases in addition to the mortar pit to try and hit back. 9 times out of 10 they have already unassed the area before accurate return fire can be made. Standard practice of the enemy for a complex attack has been to initiate an attack to take out our mortar pit and any vehicles with a TOW or mk19/M2. Its what happened in Wannat and resulted in 9 Americans dying and 25+ wounded, almost being completely overrun.
The 240 and its 7,62 round just doesn't have enough ass to get to these max ranges. In fact, one of the work arounds has been one dude on a LRAS and a 240 gunner raining 6-15 round bursts indirect outside of the weapons effective range.
You haven't heard anything because you a plant eating fobbit who knows nothing of actual warfare. You don't know your history or even current events. The sniper community quickly realized they were completely outgunned and out ranged hence the movement to 300WM and then 300NM and 6.5CM for their various systems.
Not every unit that comes under attack or small base will have a TOW or even a Mortar ready to return fire, much less a pred/reap or CAS.
ALOT of American soldiers have died over the last 2 decades due to piss poor tactics and weapons available for the fight. Notice those who actually go out and take the fight to the enemy on the reg (IE Spec ops), have all been moving to better chamberings as fast as allowed.
It is why they are looking at a 338norma mag machine gun to meet or exceed the range out guys are getting shot from. But you knew that right?
Ironically here where I live I can only find 6.5 and the 308 is sold out.
if you own a .308 for all of the right reasons, that would not matter.
any patriot worth their salt has enough ammo to last a very long time. jmo.
ask me why i didn't care that you couldn't find toilet paper? it would be a year before i gave a fuck.
Federal .308/7.62x51mm Ammo rifle
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people that already owned a rifle for years (more likely to be .308) were panic buying because of fears of civil unrest...I have a ton of components for reloading 308. I just found it interesting with the the 6.5 craze it was still on the shelf and all the good 308 ammo was gone. I figured the opposite would be the case.
yes. not as common as 168gr, but i do occasionally see it at a brick and mortar store like turners or a local gun store.Has anyone ever seen Federal 7.62x51 175 Gold Medal at a store? It is the same as Federal AB39 Mil issue. I use to work at Federal Ammunition and I could get it.
Are you high or just not that smart. There are a ton of articles and its been think tanekd to deathDo you just say whatever comes to your head??? A PKM doesn’t out range an M240 let alone a 308 bolt gun. DsHk? We have the M2 which is better. Bro now you are getting personal and that’s fine. I will just keep in factual. American tactics have evolved just like Warfare does. We get better. The American warrior is the best in the world despite what you think of them
Are our soldiers restricted by our government? I was in Vietnam. It was not a true war where the enemy was killed when found. It is not always the tools but the determination of the troops. Hard to have that with all the restrictions. I noticed that one of the big problems was communication. Interpreters were used that were in fact the enemy. Or susceptible to fear of the loss of their family or village. The enemy looked the same as the friendlies. True communication between them was important to figure out who was who. It did work in Korea. So there is hope.Are you high or just not that smart. There are a ton of articles and its been think tanekd to death
This is the Russian infantry weapon that has the US military so worried
Soviet military weapons have an odd tendency to stay both dangerous and relevant decades after they're issued. They might lack the creature comforts andwww.wearethemighty.com
Head to had, it outranges the 7.62x51, especially when shot from a short barrel or a mk48. Shot from an elevated position, its not even close.
Ever broke trail in afganistan or any combat zone? How many fucking m2’s are taken lut on patrol? Just shows the abolsute ignorance of your post. You got to run what you brung, not whats sitting in a connex 100 km away.
People like you really should learn to shut your pie hole when adults are talking. If you want to debate, atleast have some semblance of knowledge of the subject. You just make yourself look dumb and foolish.
The american warrior with its cuting edge tech has been getting its ass kicked by illerterate goat farmers wearing pajamas for 2 decades. We Are about to hand the country back to the taliban because they control more of the country than we do. How fast do you think 3 talis can hump a pkm up a rIdge, let loose fire on americans and then unass the area before we can even get there. You think we fight like that? Our combat loads weight more than most the assholes were fighting. So stop pretending you have any idea how any of this works.
You need to learn the difference between a warrior and a soldier.
I say this as a combat vet who spent half his life in the Army. You have zero idea what you are talking about.
Hey, no one gives a fuck about your opinion.Excuses dont really matter. Bad leadership and poor tactics arent a get out of jail free card when your in the middle of a complex ambush. It is what it is.
The point that was lost is, our small elements are already outgunned. general issuance of the carl g is going to help, but there is a reason we are moving towards 6.5cm and 300/338 nm. It should tilt the ballance back in our favor if they get widespread adoption and not just with socom.
Which takes us back to the thread again, the 308 obsolete for anything but hunters and old geriatrics shooting cmp And f Class.
Just wanted to drop in and let everyone know I spun the 308 barrel back on my AX two days ago....
Hey, no one gives a fuck about your opinion.
You have shit all over a thread with your bullshit.
If it wasn't such a bitch move I'd report your ass.
You've insulted a lot of people, picture the drunk coming into camp late and ruining a otherwise peaceful evening by the fire.
Yeah that guy would be you.
So giving the average two-man gun team a combat load of 300NM or 338NM Compared to the weight of a 7.62 load isn’t going to slow them down any further? At what point does the weight of their kit be compared to the combat effectiveness/lethality of their weapon system? Humping a 240 isn’t the funnest, so I’m curious to know what the actual weight of these new guns is going to be...Are you high or just not that smart. There are a ton of articles and its been think tanekd to death
This is the Russian infantry weapon that has the US military so worried
Soviet military weapons have an odd tendency to stay both dangerous and relevant decades after they're issued. They might lack the creature comforts andwww.wearethemighty.com
Head to had, it outranges the 7.62x51, especially when shot from a short barrel or a mk48. Shot from an elevated position, its not even close.
Ever broke trail in afganistan or any combat zone? How many fucking m2’s are taken lut on patrol? Just shows the abolsute ignorance of your post. You got to run what you brung, not whats sitting in a connex 100 km away.
People like you really should learn to shut your pie hole when adults are talking. If you want to debate, atleast have some semblance of knowledge of the subject. You just make yourself look dumb and foolish.
The american warrior with its cuting edge tech has been getting its ass kicked by illerterate goat farmers wearing pajamas for 2 decades. We Are about to hand the country back to the taliban because they control more of the country than we do. How fast do you think 3 talis can hump a pkm up a rIdge, let loose fire on americans and then unass the area before we can even get there. You think we fight like that? Our combat loads weight more than most the assholes were fighting. So stop pretending you have any idea how any of this works.
You need to learn the difference between a warrior and a soldier.
I say this as a combat vet who spent half his life in the Army. You have zero idea what you are talking about.
I was down in South Texas a couple weeks ago shooting 1000 yards with some folks and there were two guys sharing a can of the hornady AG stuff. 140gr bthp. Just loose packed in an ammo can. Watched a guy pull out three rounds and proceed to shoot a 3" group on steel at 1000 yards. No joke. I'd have called bs had I not seen it with my own eyes.Is the AG stuff that accurate, though? I’ll admit I haven’t looked into it much, as it seemed like a cheap plinking load compared to other loads on the market.
Almost did that to this rifle. 700 LTR in 308. Glad I didn't. Hadn't shot this rifle in years, been playing with the AR-10 variants. Put a scope back on it and shot this group when getting it zeroed. Low right shot was from bore sighting. Three in the bull.Turn it into a 7MM-08.
Thank you. Well said. That dude needs to go away with his BS. Insulting everyone (including the Military and other Vets).Hey, no one gives a fuck about your opinion.
You have shit all over a thread with your bullshit.
If it wasn't such a bitch move I'd report your ass.
You've insulted a lot of people, picture the drunk coming into camp late and ruining a otherwise peaceful evening by the fire.
Yeah that guy would be you.View attachment 7346006
We used AB39 aka Mk316 in the Corps. As I said before, Federal makes 175gn 7.62mm GMM which is just repackaged into the FGMM box. Great load. Another great load is is the 168 FTMK. Hard to find. LE load. I have some of it. It expands would make a great hunting load. I’ve seen it in gel.yes. not as common as 168gr, but i do occasionally see it at a brick and mortar store like turners or a local gun store.
i think it depends on local demand (does anyone ask for it) and availability of 168gr (might order instead).
we have a local ammo seller (LAX ammo and LAX OC) that just seem to be opportunity resellers.
they stock as much as they can in 20 rd boxes, so you might 30+ choices of premium .308 ammo, but they may not have the same ammo in bulk every time you go there. for example, you might find cases of FGMM in 168gr and 175gr on one visit, but the next time find only Remington 168gr SMK and Aquila in both .308 and 7.62x51mm that the wholeseller had at a good price per round.
since this is california after all, and we can't have ammo shipped to our door, it is not surprising they sell out of as much fgmm that they can get.
The gun will weight less than a 240b, will more more accurate, have similar recoil, have better range and will cut through cover and concealment better. Yea the ammo will weight more, but considering the benefits you will get 50 cal and 338L performance at a reduced weight and recoil.So giving the average two-man gun team a combat load of 300NM or 338NM Compared to the weight of a 7.62 load isn’t going to slow them down any further? At what point does the weight of their kit be compared to the combat effectiveness/lethality of their weapon system? Humping a 240 isn’t the funnest, so I’m curious to know what the actual weight of these new guns is going to be...
It does...A PKM doesn’t out range an M240 let alone a 308 bolt gun.
I'm just getting into precision/ long range shooting, and I've decided to start with .308. I've always wanted one, and want to learn to reload with it. If I can hit 1000yds I'll be happy.
My ultimate goal is to then get a custom 6.5 since I know it's a superior round for getting to 1k+.
In my humble opinion I think that is a good plan. If you have the want to and monetary resources you should own both cartridges. I have 2 custom 308's and have the resources to rebarrel them both if I want to. Yes I am outgunned by the PKM and am subject to a good web forum tar and feathering but who cares. The cartridge with the right projectiles is sufficient for the ranges you have described. I may be new to the forum but I am not new to this debate in my circles locally. I have held out on my 308's since the birth of the 6.5 CM... Call me crazy.I'm just getting into precision/ long range shooting, and I've decided to start with .308. I've always wanted one, and want to learn to reload with it. If I can hit 1000yds I'll be happy.
My ultimate goal is to then get a custom 6.5 since I know it's a superior round for getting to 1k+.
I just got a new 308 barrel for my AX and just threw it on last week!Just wanted to drop in and let everyone know I spun the 308 barrel back on my AX two days ago....