Coalescing around the lowest common denominator over subjective and impertinent trivialities instead of simply defining objective criteria and presenting evidence, i.e. emotional response vs logical discussion... anyone else note the irony?
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Is it worth keeping a 308 around?
- Thread starter swampbuck
- Start date
Well,...I have always had at least one 308 for the last 55+ years. At the present time I have four. I often practice shooting for distance (300-700 yards) with my old 40XB's in this caliber. I have never found any of them lacking. Regarding fads in the gun world....They seem to come and go with the passage of time. Now don't get me wrong, I loaded and owned 52 other calibers in the last 60 years. Some were great and others had issues. Guns sometimes are like women. The pretty new "sensuous model "comes out and young men, suddenly wet their pants, overwhelmed with heated fantasies. With what she will do and not do...Finding out after the white heat wears thin, wanting is one thing, having is an entirely a different story. As for myself (after having said all that )there is one wild eyed child in my safe. She is young and incredibly powerful. Will be testing this young lady at 700 to 1,200 yards even though some would say she is capable of much more...However, I have this thing about hitting my target on the first shot. Not 15 shots later and hoot and howler about my great victory! You might ask who is the wild eyed child that has caused me to stray? Why jolly gee whiz it's Miss 338 Lapua! Or a better named should be Miss Very High Maintenance. Well...She better know how to cook or she will be thrown out of the kitchen! I have other old gals in my safe that cook just fine...Yep!
I don’t want to waste my time trying to have an intelligent debate when it’s clear that a) all you seem to care about is sniping/military application, 2) you have a comeback for everything, d) you’re trying to argue what is essentially an opinion post w/ facts. Can you use facts to support your side? Absolutely. Do I have to give a shit, since it’s my opinion? Nope.
I’m not arguing that the .308 is superior or even equal to the 6mm and 6.5mm wonder cartridges. If I WANTED to break out hard numbers, I would, and they would prove your point that the .308 is ballistically inferior, depending on the application. But I don’t care, because the OP didn’t ask that. He simply asked if it was worth having around, and I personally think it still has merit. You can disagree with me. I don’t have to agree with you. Life goes on!
If it makes you happy, I own a 6.5CM as well. It’s fun, I like it a lot. But I still like my .308 , and that’s OK.
Lastly, if you think a sarcastic joke on a forum is an attack on your character, then LULZ. You definitely won’t last long here. Something that innocuous gets you this riled up, then The Hide may not be for you.
Buy what you like. Be happy. Profit.
I think that .45 ACP is king. Fat and slow hits harder. 9mm is just stoopid.
MIL is good for metic systems. MOA should be ancient history. IPHY rules all.
First Focal Plane should never have been invented. Second Focal Planes are the end all, be all.
Why spend thousands on scopes when my Tasco works perfectly.
All of it boils down to who cares. Each person should choose what they like and can shoot accurately. There are pros and cons to everything. Im not going to bash anyone for their choice. And Im not going to yell and scream over other people's opinions if they are different than mine.
MIL is good for metic systems. MOA should be ancient history. IPHY rules all.
First Focal Plane should never have been invented. Second Focal Planes are the end all, be all.
Why spend thousands on scopes when my Tasco works perfectly.
All of it boils down to who cares. Each person should choose what they like and can shoot accurately. There are pros and cons to everything. Im not going to bash anyone for their choice. And Im not going to yell and scream over other people's opinions if they are different than mine.
Wait, so its not cool to own a 308 anymore? Dang. I just put the money down to have one built.
But I read it’s just like the 50 caliber if it comes close enough to you it can still take your arm off!
I can tell people need to go to the fuckin' range. I guess I'll take my .308 Garand.
6.5 CM is old news.
www.snipershide.com
.284 Win is now the shit.
F T/R Competition - Which cartridge?
I’ve never shot F-Class but I’m quite interested. Which cartridges do you see on the line most often? And can you be competitive without spending an arm and a leg on the rifle and optic?
www.snipershide.com
I am new here and will not offer an opinion but my situation. I have 2 M40 clones and and an AR-10 in 308. I joined the forum to become a better shooter with my 308's. I am highly invested in the cartridge and have been for 12 years. I bought a 6.5 3 weeks ago because I know it is better no doubt about it. However, I really enjoy shooting the round we have labeled "Nacho Libre".... Worst case scenario it makes me better at calling the wind.
I actually felt like I was cheating on my 308 today. The RPR 6.5 is nice right out of the box.
Agreed that .308Win isn’t optimal in the mountains (Afghanistan) or desert (Iraq), this is why UK snipers have moved to .338LM. But for fun, for hunting it’s still not bad and not high-cost solution, as mentioned above.
For instance, 6.5x55 is still popular in Sweden and it was developed over 100 years ago as well as 7.62x39 & 7.62x54 in Russia. Both are outdated in theory, too, but still popular.
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I have a few still, I don't have lots of time to spend at the reloading bench these days, so I have been shooting mostly factoy ammo. I can get FGMM for 16-18 per box and it shoots 1/4-1/2 MOA depending on the rifle. Anyways its consistently good ammo. I have had a 6.5cm, and have another being built, but my last one shot the Hornady ELD's the best. The Hornady Match ELD cost more to shoot. The bulk of my shooting is still going to be 308.
Man there is a lot of crap being spread out here. Someone said a PKM machine gun out ranges the US machine guns and sniper rifles. A PKM is a 7.62x54.
if you own a .308 for all of the right reasons, that would not matter.
any patriot worth their salt has enough ammo to last a very long time. jmo.
ask me why i didn't care that you couldn't find toilet paper? it would be a year before i gave a fuck.
Do you just say whatever comes to your head??? A PKM doesn’t out range an M240 let alone a 308 bolt gun. DsHk? We have the M2 which is better. Bro now you are getting personal and that’s fine. I will just keep in factual. American tactics have evolved just like Warfare does. We get better. The American warrior is the best in the world despite what you think of them
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Federal .308/7.62x51mm Ammo rifle
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I have a ton of components for reloading 308. I just found it interesting with the the 6.5 craze it was still on the shelf and all the good 308 ammo was gone. I figured the opposite would be the case.
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$0.90 per rd for FGMM 168gr isn't great, but at least you can get it.
i can still get M80 ball (priv partizan) for a reasonable price, and it shoots very well out of my scar.
Prvi Partizan .308/7.62x51mm Ammo rifle
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i think you can find malaysian nato surplus that works fine for plinking @ around $0.40?
people that already owned a rifle for years (more likely to be .308) were panic buying because of fears of civil unrest...
not to mention newbs and fucktarded liberals that were scared straight and bought anything they could, or went to grandpa's and took his rifle.
even people like me might have bought a few cases if it was available.
i generally buy to replace what i have shot, rather than buy when i want to shoot.
if i find a good deal, i will buy a bunch and use that as an excuse to shoot more.
Has anyone ever seen Federal 7.62x51 175 Gold Medal at a store? It is the same as Federal AB39 Mil issue. I use to work at Federal Ammunition and I could get it.
yes. not as common as 168gr, but i do occasionally see it at a brick and mortar store like turners or a local gun store.
i think it depends on local demand (does anyone ask for it) and availability of 168gr (might order instead).
we have a local ammo seller (LAX ammo and LAX OC) that just seem to be opportunity resellers.
they stock as much as they can in 20 rd boxes, so you might 30+ choices of premium .308 ammo, but they may not have the same ammo in bulk every time you go there. for example, you might find cases of FGMM in 168gr and 175gr on one visit, but the next time find only Remington 168gr SMK and Aquila in both .308 and 7.62x51mm that the wholeseller had at a good price per round.
since this is california after all, and we can't have ammo shipped to our door, it is not surprising they sell out of as much fgmm that they can get.
.308 custom rifle. Nice day at a great range since closed. 1000 yards 10 shots in a row at large target and immediately switched to small one for 7 in a row. Friend with a Kestrel was calling wind at the shooting position. I tried to correct for downrange winds. 175 TMK in Alpha brass and 43.9 gr Varget. I think the bigest help was an elevated shooting position and the height of the target. Little to no mirage. The rifle is a dream come true.
Are you high or just not that smart. There are a ton of articles and its been think tanekd to death
This is the Russian infantry weapon that has the US military so worried
Soviet military weapons have an odd tendency to stay both dangerous and relevant decades after they're issued. They might lack the creature comforts and
www.wearethemighty.com
Head to had, it outranges the 7.62x51, especially when shot from a short barrel or a mk48. Shot from an elevated position, its not even close.
Ever broke trail in afganistan or any combat zone? How many fucking m2’s are taken lut on patrol? Just shows the abolsute ignorance of your post. You got to run what you brung, not whats sitting in a connex 100 km away.
People like you really should learn to shut your pie hole when adults are talking. If you want to debate, atleast have some semblance of knowledge of the subject. You just make yourself look dumb and foolish.
The american warrior with its cuting edge tech has been getting its ass kicked by illerterate goat farmers wearing pajamas for 2 decades. We Are about to hand the country back to the taliban because they control more of the country than we do. How fast do you think 3 talis can hump a pkm up a rIdge, let loose fire on americans and then unass the area before we can even get there. You think we fight like that? Our combat loads weight more than most the assholes were fighting. So stop pretending you have any idea how any of this works.
You need to learn the difference between a warrior and a soldier.
I say this as a combat vet who spent half his life in the Army. You have zero idea what you are talking about.
Are our soldiers restricted by our government? I was in Vietnam. It was not a true war where the enemy was killed when found. It is not always the tools but the determination of the troops. Hard to have that with all the restrictions. I noticed that one of the big problems was communication. Interpreters were used that were in fact the enemy. Or susceptible to fear of the loss of their family or village. The enemy looked the same as the friendlies. True communication between them was important to figure out who was who. It did work in Korea. So there is hope.Are you high or just not that smart. There are a ton of articles and its been think tanekd to death
This is the Russian infantry weapon that has the US military so worried
Soviet military weapons have an odd tendency to stay both dangerous and relevant decades after they're issued. They might lack the creature comforts and
Head to had, it outranges the 7.62x51, especially when shot from a short barrel or a mk48. Shot from an elevated position, its not even close.
Ever broke trail in afganistan or any combat zone? How many fucking m2’s are taken lut on patrol? Just shows the abolsute ignorance of your post. You got to run what you brung, not whats sitting in a connex 100 km away.
People like you really should learn to shut your pie hole when adults are talking. If you want to debate, atleast have some semblance of knowledge of the subject. You just make yourself look dumb and foolish.
The american warrior with its cuting edge tech has been getting its ass kicked by illerterate goat farmers wearing pajamas for 2 decades. We Are about to hand the country back to the taliban because they control more of the country than we do. How fast do you think 3 talis can hump a pkm up a rIdge, let loose fire on americans and then unass the area before we can even get there. You think we fight like that? Our combat loads weight more than most the assholes were fighting. So stop pretending you have any idea how any of this works.
You need to learn the difference between a warrior and a soldier.
I say this as a combat vet who spent half his life in the Army. You have zero idea what you are talking about.
Excuses dont really matter. Bad leadership and poor tactics arent a get out of jail free card when your in the middle of a complex ambush. It is what it is.
The point that was lost is, our small elements are already outgunned. general issuance of the carl g is going to help, but there is a reason we are moving towards 6.5cm and 300/338 nm. It should tilt the ballance back in our favor if they get widespread adoption and not just with socom.
Which takes us back to the thread again, the 308 obsolete for anything but hunters and old geriatrics shooting cmp And f Class.
The point that was lost is, our small elements are already outgunned. general issuance of the carl g is going to help, but there is a reason we are moving towards 6.5cm and 300/338 nm. It should tilt the ballance back in our favor if they get widespread adoption and not just with socom.
Which takes us back to the thread again, the 308 obsolete for anything but hunters and old geriatrics shooting cmp And f Class.
Just wanted to drop in and let everyone know I spun the 308 barrel back on my AX two days ago....
Hey, no one gives a fuck about your opinion.
You have shit all over a thread with your bullshit.
If it wasn't such a bitch move I'd report your ass.
You've insulted a lot of people, picture the drunk coming into camp late and ruining a otherwise peaceful evening by the fire.
Yeah that guy would be you.
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Dude bro, you just aged yourself like 30 years! You’ll never hit anything when the wind’s blowing more than a MPH or two, and you just reduced your max effective range to 638.78888y, man! Why would you DO that?!
Who the fuck are you, you been here a whole year longer and make the rules?
go back in your hole troll. I haven't insulted anyone who didn't take a shot at my first. Not one person.
Add something constructive to the thread instead of crying like a bitch because you can refute what has been said.
So giving the average two-man gun team a combat load of 300NM or 338NM Compared to the weight of a 7.62 load isn’t going to slow them down any further? At what point does the weight of their kit be compared to the combat effectiveness/lethality of their weapon system? Humping a 240 isn’t the funnest, so I’m curious to know what the actual weight of these new guns is going to be...Are you high or just not that smart. There are a ton of articles and its been think tanekd to death
This is the Russian infantry weapon that has the US military so worried
Soviet military weapons have an odd tendency to stay both dangerous and relevant decades after they're issued. They might lack the creature comforts and
Head to had, it outranges the 7.62x51, especially when shot from a short barrel or a mk48. Shot from an elevated position, its not even close.
Ever broke trail in afganistan or any combat zone? How many fucking m2’s are taken lut on patrol? Just shows the abolsute ignorance of your post. You got to run what you brung, not whats sitting in a connex 100 km away.
People like you really should learn to shut your pie hole when adults are talking. If you want to debate, atleast have some semblance of knowledge of the subject. You just make yourself look dumb and foolish.
The american warrior with its cuting edge tech has been getting its ass kicked by illerterate goat farmers wearing pajamas for 2 decades. We Are about to hand the country back to the taliban because they control more of the country than we do. How fast do you think 3 talis can hump a pkm up a rIdge, let loose fire on americans and then unass the area before we can even get there. You think we fight like that? Our combat loads weight more than most the assholes were fighting. So stop pretending you have any idea how any of this works.
You need to learn the difference between a warrior and a soldier.
I say this as a combat vet who spent half his life in the Army. You have zero idea what you are talking about.
I was down in South Texas a couple weeks ago shooting 1000 yards with some folks and there were two guys sharing a can of the hornady AG stuff. 140gr bthp. Just loose packed in an ammo can. Watched a guy pull out three rounds and proceed to shoot a 3" group on steel at 1000 yards. No joke. I'd have called bs had I not seen it with my own eyes.
From a factory remington 700 no less.
Would have loved to run a few rounds across my magneto speed.
I pushed my pws mk216 out to 800 that weekend. Never did make a hit at 1k. More a reflection on me than the gun though. I was shooting the hornady black 168 amax load.
Almost did that to this rifle. 700 LTR in 308. Glad I didn't. Hadn't shot this rifle in years, been playing with the AR-10 variants. Put a scope back on it and shot this group when getting it zeroed. Low right shot was from bore sighting. Three in the bull.
Thank you. Well said. That dude needs to go away with his BS. Insulting everyone (including the Military and other Vets).
We used AB39 aka Mk316 in the Corps. As I said before, Federal makes 175gn 7.62mm GMM which is just repackaged into the FGMM box. Great load. Another great load is is the 168 FTMK. Hard to find. LE load. I have some of it. It expands would make a great hunting load. I’ve seen it in gel.
The gun will weight less than a 240b, will more more accurate, have similar recoil, have better range and will cut through cover and concealment better. Yea the ammo will weight more, but considering the benefits you will get 50 cal and 338L performance at a reduced weight and recoil.
SIG MG 338: USSOCOM’s Lightweight, Norma Mag Machine Gun Is Here!
https://youtu.be/sl3qfdvFmig SIG Sauer just announced United States Special Operation Command (USSOCOM) completed a safety certification and purchase of the SIG
www.tactical-life.com
The logical choice would be rechamber existing systems into 6.5CM and get the ballistic advantages while they test the new systems and field them. It takes like 10-15 years to replace a new system anyway. There is also a caseless mg that has been tested for the last 10 years and may come online one day, replacing the saw and 240. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LSAT_light_machine_gun
The 240 is a fantastic weapon system but its time is coming to an end. Best employed as a stationary or vehicle weapon and not dismounted.
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I'm just getting into precision/ long range shooting, and I've decided to start with .308. I've always wanted one, and want to learn to reload with it. If I can hit 1000yds I'll be happy.
My ultimate goal is to then get a custom 6.5 since I know it's a superior round for getting to 1k+.
My ultimate goal is to then get a custom 6.5 since I know it's a superior round for getting to 1k+.
Unfortunately you're shit out of luck. The .308 is outranged by the new fancy sig machine guns, and the 240 is too heavy. Logically, that new .308 of yours will be a pointless endeavor.
My condolences.
I was going to learn to fly so I could take short vacations to the destinations I have in mind, and some short business trips also. The plan was to go rent a Cessna 172. But now after seeing the logic of this thread, I’m going straight to an F22 and skip everything else because that’s what the military uses.
In my humble opinion I think that is a good plan. If you have the want to and monetary resources you should own both cartridges. I have 2 custom 308's and have the resources to rebarrel them both if I want to. Yes I am outgunned by the PKM and am subject to a good web forum tar and feathering but who cares. The cartridge with the right projectiles is sufficient for the ranges you have described. I may be new to the forum but I am not new to this debate in my circles locally. I have held out on my 308's since the birth of the 6.5 CM... Call me crazy.
Currently, however, if someone walks in and says they are just getting started I send them to the 6.5 CM. I have been shooting both and the one has made me appreciate the other. I have taken them out together (in the wind) and shot them side by side and walked away a believer. The 6.5 CM is pretty forgiving.
But I can afford both horses in my stable. I can load and stockpile for both. I have the time, energy and desire to train with both. I know my capabilities and limitations of the 308 and my loads for each barrel length. I also know my own capabilities and limitations as well and that is why I'm here (to get better).
So if it tickles your pickle to go the route you described then do it. Just avoid the PKM'S until you own a 300 NM or a 338 LM or a 300 PRC or that nasty weapon mounted on a C-130.
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I just got a new 308 barrel for my AX and just threw it on last week!
