Is it worth keeping a 308 around?

[ofelas]

Y'all can keep your tattooed Miley Cyrus compatible CreedHoz.

I prefer my ageless Shania spec .308 to fill the freezers with gluten free meat.

For a bit more reach, there's Chuck Norris shoulder punch quality .338LM

 

[Boltyboi]

i shoot a bow too but im not going to sit here and say its just as good as a better tool.

has nothing to do with winning matches. Missing targets is not fun. The costs are similar so why not use a significantly better tool for the job. If your a hunter, dont you want a cleaner kill with less risk? why waste my time shooting steel and missing what could and should be hits.

learning is faster with better tools. Inferior Equipment is just another challange to overcome. Take 2 brand new shooters and give them 30 minutes of instruction. One has a .308 and one has a 6.5. Now have them hit a target at 1k. Which one is more likely to hit?

Sure, if you are pushing ranges where wind drift and drop harm your performance with a .308, then 6.5 is the better choice. Maybe I am a minority here, but most of my shooting is done at under 300 yards, and all of it for hunting is.

If I'm failing to make an ethical kill within that range, well, it sure as hell ain't because of the wind.

 

[dirthead1]

Does anybody just go out shooting for fun anymore? I have several rifles in calibers that’s are ballistically superior to a 308, but I still love shooting the 308. I love shooting my Marlin 1894 45 LC, and I’m sure there are sling shots that might be better at long range, but who cares! The 308 is a very practical round. At reasonable distances it’s a fine target cartridge. There is a wide variety of bullets available for hunting anything from a squirrel to a moose. Yes it has more wind drift and drop than most anything that starts with a 6 or 6.5, and isn’t the best choice for prs matches, but it’s still a very capable cartridge and most of all really fun to shoot. Just because it isn’t the latest and greatest doesn’t mean you can’t keep one and enjoy a day at the range with it. It might even teach you something that will make you better with your 6mm whatever.

 

[Steel head]

Does anybody just go out shooting for fun anymore? I have several rifles in calibers that’s are ballistically superior to a 308, but I still love shooting the 308. I love shooting my Marlin 1894 45 LC, and I’m sure there are sling shots that might be better at long range, but who cares! The 308 is a very practical round. At reasonable distances it’s a fine target cartridge. There is a wide variety of bullets available for hunting anything from a squirrel to a moose. Yes it has more wind drift and drop than most anything that starts with a 6 or 6.5, and isn’t the best choice for prs matches, but it’s still a very capable cartridge and most of all really fun to shoot. Just because it isn’t the latest and greatest doesn’t mean you can’t keep one and enjoy a day at the range with it. It might even teach you something that will make you better with your 6mm whatever.

I go shooting go fun all the time.
fun starts at about 800 yards for me.

 

[Nimothy]

I say bolt gun nah. Rebarrel it, buy an auto loading 308 though if you don’t have one already. Autoloaders fall more in line with the use of 308 in modern times

 

[Master Gunny]

Nato doesnt mean jack shit and the us military is already moving away from it as fast as possible. New sws are in 300nm and onlyhave the cuck 308 barrel due to range restrictions. In the last 10 years the army was moving to 300wm due to the anemic 308 and getting outranged by the enemy.

MK48 is already get swapped to 6.5cm for SOCOM and eventually it will trickle down to big army. Less weight, increased energy at range, significantly increased hit probability and less recoil. Adds a few hundred meters of effective range as well.

Curious as to what enemy has been out ranging us? I have been in theater. I’ve not seen or heard from any enemy gunman out ranging our Hunters of gunmen. Please tell me more about that.

 

[Master Gunny]

I go shooting go fun all the time.
fun starts at about 800 yards.

I actually find the fun with police type of shots and training inside 300. I find it more challenging. Multiple shots and tight HRT shots timed.

 

[ofelas]

You know the crabby twat is going to backpedal, and tell us all an enemy fiddy cal outranges a friendly .308

Curious as to what enemy has been out ranging us? I have been in theater. I’ve not seen or heard from any enemy gunman out ranging our Hunters of gunmen. Please tell me more about that.

 

[CrabsandFootball]

Curious as to what enemy has been out ranging us? I have been in theater. I’ve not seen or heard from any enemy gunman out ranging our Hunters of gunmen. Please tell me more about that.

We have been getting outranged in Afghanistan since 2001. Small cops and PB's have routinely been outranged by PKM and even DshK if they are willing to hump it in. Rockets and RPGs from above(some say they are disabling the rpg's self destruct, increasing its range) Due to the terrible placement of many of our cops (see Battle of Wannat, Kamdesh,ect ) with surrounding ridges its has very easy to outrange us , raining down fire. It is why they brought it TOW systems to certain bases in addition to the mortar pit to try and hit back. 9 times out of 10 they have already unassed the area before accurate return fire can be made. Standard practice of the enemy for a complex attack has been to initiate an attack to take out our mortar pit and any vehicles with a TOW or mk19/M2. Its what happened in Wannat and resulted in 9 Americans dying and 25+ wounded, almost being completely overrun.

The 240 and its 7,62 round just doesn't have enough ass to get to these max ranges. In fact, one of the work arounds has been one dude on a LRAS and a 240 gunner raining 6-15 round bursts indirect outside of the weapons effective range.

You haven't heard anything because you a plant eating fobbit who knows nothing of actual warfare. You don't know your history or even current events. The sniper community quickly realized they were completely outgunned and out ranged hence the movement to 300WM and then 300NM and 6.5CM for their various systems.

Not every unit that comes under attack or small base will have a TOW or even a Mortar ready to return fire, much less a pred/reap or CAS.

ALOT of American soldiers have died over the last 2 decades due to piss poor tactics and weapons available for the fight. Notice those who actually go out and take the fight to the enemy on the reg (IE Spec ops), have all been moving to better chamberings as fast as allowed.

It is why they are looking at a 338norma mag machine gun to meet or exceed the range out guys are getting shot from. But you knew that right?

 

[CrabsandFootball]

You know the crabby twat is going to backpedal, and tell us all an enemy fiddy cal outranges a friendly .308

Read above and stop being a cuck. You should speak less and listen more.

 

[earthquake]

Two picts I took 24 years apart. Both .308's. There's just something about them I love.

 

[stilesg57]

You should speak less and listen more.

Man, math just ain’t your friend today. Pot, meet kettle:

ofelas
Member since: 11/23/2011
3,117 days
203 posts
0.07 posts/day

CrabsandFootball
Member since: 04/28/2020(!)
38 days
352 posts
9.26 posts/day

Yeah, HE’S the Chatty Cathy around here alright.

Again: you’re clearly just someone who found a new online forum to bluster around during your covid boredom. We’ve been around here awhile, we know what a troll looks like.

Give my regards to Buddly.

 

[CrabsandFootball]

Man, math just ain’t your friend today. Pot, meet kettle:

ofelas
Member since: 11/23/2011
3,117 days
203 posts
0.07 posts/day

CrabsandFootball
Member since: 04/28/2020(!)
38 days
352 posts
9.26 posts/day

Yeah, HE’S the Chatty Cathy around here alright.

Again: you’re clearly just someone who found a new online forum to bluster around during your covid boredom. We’ve been around here awhile, we know what a troll looks like.

Give my regards to Buddly.

And yet you can't disprove or argue anything I have said. You have contributed nothing to this thread of value.

 

[stilesg57]

And yet you can't disprove or argue anything I have said. You have contributed nothing to this thread of value.

Maybe you should actually read this thread — you know, from a few posts before you barged into it to do nothing but pick shit — and you’d see some earlier posts by me that disprove things you’ve said.

Or, as someone aptly put it:

Read above and stop being a cuck. You should speak less and listen more.

In sum .308 isn’t perfect but nothing is and it still rocks for many reasons and that means it’s probably worth keeping one around ala the title of this thread. I’m done feeding the troll for today.

 

[CrabsandFootball]

Maybe you should actually read this thread — you know, from a few posts before you barged into it to do nothing but pick shit — and you’d see some earlier posts by me that disprove things you’ve said.

Or, as someone aptly put it:





In sum .308 isn’t perfect but nothing is and it still rocks for many reasons and that means it’s probably worth keeping one around ala the title of this thread. I’m done feeding the troll for today.

Maybe YOU should read the thread. The question is the 308 worth keeping around. One of the arguments is its been outclassed in MANY areas including warfare, and for good reason. Someone called bullshit so they got set strait.

If you want to call someone out, altest have knowledge of the subject before pulling out your pecker. People like you contribute nothing of value, in fact you are the troll in this scenario. All you did is take a shot at my post. Not going to apologizing for responding to someone being aggressive and rude with their own medicine.

If you have nothing productive or valuable to stay, then remain silent. Go home.

 

[Shooter McGavin]

I have sold two .308 rifles. One I regretted and one I am replacing. Can’t wait to get my Tac Ops Tango 51. Without a doubt there are better rounds out there today. I only want the .308 for old times sake.

 

[Boltyboi]

Maybe YOU should read the thread. The question is the 308 worth keeping around. One of the arguments is its been outclassed in MANY areas including warfare, and for good reason. Someone called bullshit so they got set strait.

If you want to call someone out, altest have knowledge of the subject before pulling out your pecker. People like you contribute nothing of value, in fact you are the troll in this scenario. All you did is take a shot at my post. Not going to apologizing for responding to someone being aggressive and rude with their own medicine.

If you have nothing productive or valuable to stay, then remain silent. Go home.

Yeah man, you're totally right. The effective range of a crew served weapon in Afghanistan is an incredibly relevant metric by which to judge the usefullness of a rifle in my safe.

 

[CrabsandFootball]

Yeah man, you're totally right. The effective range of a crew served weapon in Afghanistan is an incredibly relevant metric by which to judge the usefullness of a rifle in my safe.

Not just crew serve, but individual weapons and SWS.

Its not all or nothing. Its just another data point that illustrates that the round is outdated and people and organizations in all walks are moving to superior chamberings.

The Truth is, it was never a great round. Go back in history and there were multiple opportunities to come up with a better intermediate round but the old fucks who needed to have a 30 caliber rifle because they humped one in WW1 and WW2 wouldn't have it any other way. The swiss with the 6.5x55 were way ahead of their time.

 

[Boltyboi]

Outdated and useful are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Rerun7]

So... you guys are saying I need a .308???

 

[Steel head]

So... you guys are saying I need a .308???

If you want to be hip and cool,,,,yes.

 

[Stevo86]

 

[Kamerad]

Sure it's worth keeping around. Owning guns isn't an exercise in monogamy, or you're really missing out.

 

[napt0wnc1ty99]

Personally, I don’t have one and in no rush to grab one. Hearing a lot of “if shit hits the fan you can find 308 ammo.” Well then I’ll probably find a 308 rifle too on some fudd who got clapped and still pass it up.

Do what makes you happy. I’d rather spend the money on another can or some gear.

 

[Powder_Burns]

The longer 308’s and short action rifles (re 308 length) are around, the more cartridges like 6.5cm will be spawned. There is a reason the .30-06 and .308 have become standardized action lengths and as a result a vast majority of the chamberings on the market today have those two as parent cartridges, and that reason has little to do with poor performance by 2020 standards and more to do with popularity, success, and the military track record of those two rounds. Sure its worth keeping around for another hundred years.

 

[rottenruger]

You already own the 308, keep it. Slow down the usage to prolong what's left of the barrel life. You have all the reloading gear? Keep it, too.

If you go to the newer and love them and never go back, no loss.

If you go to the newer and eventually get bored with them (however unlikely), you can then re-barrel you 308 and keep on trucking.

 

[RPN]

The swiss with the 6.5x55 were way ahead of their time.

The Swiss?????
You sure about that?

 

[Basher]

We have been getting outranged in Afghanistan since 2001. Small cops and PB's have routinely been outranged by PKM and even DshK if they are willing to hump it in. Rockets and RPGs from above(some say they are disabling the rpg's self destruct, increasing its range) Due to the terrible placement of many of our cops (see Battle of Wannat, Kamdesh,ect ) with surrounding ridges its has very easy to outrange us , raining down fire. It is why they brought it TOW systems to certain bases in addition to the mortar pit to try and hit back. 9 times out of 10 they have already unassed the area before accurate return fire can be made. Standard practice of the enemy for a complex attack has been to initiate an attack to take out our mortar pit and any vehicles with a TOW or mk19/M2. Its what happened in Wannat and resulted in 9 Americans dying and 25+ wounded, almost being completely overrun.

The 240 and its 7,62 round just doesn't have enough ass to get to these max ranges. In fact, one of the work arounds has been one dude on a LRAS and a 240 gunner raining 6-15 round bursts indirect outside of the weapons effective range.

You haven't heard anything because you a plant eating fobbit who knows nothing of actual warfare. You don't know your history or even current events. The sniper community quickly realized they were completely outgunned and out ranged hence the movement to 300WM and then 300NM and 6.5CM for their various systems.

Not every unit that comes under attack or small base will have a TOW or even a Mortar ready to return fire, much less a pred/reap or CAS.

ALOT of American soldiers have died over the last 2 decades due to piss poor tactics and weapons available for the fight. Notice those who actually go out and take the fight to the enemy on the reg (IE Spec ops), have all been moving to better chamberings as fast as allowed.

It is why they are looking at a 338norma mag machine gun to meet or exceed the range out guys are getting shot from. But you knew that right?

I’m sorry, where did the OP say anything about him going into an active warzone and needing the latest, greatest, most awesomest overmatch cartridge God has ever blessed us with? We’re not fighting a war here, we’re shooting recreationally. Again, it’s about having fun. Stop taking things so seriously. There are WAAAY more uses for a rifle than merely war, especially for guys who are, you know, not fighting a war.

Also, as has been pointed out, you’re an FNG. The way you’ve shown up here and thrown your weight around as if you’re Billy Badass usually doesn’t gain much positive attention here. There’s a long and distinguished list of trolls who’ve gone before you with far more aplomb and entertainment value. You’re just insulting anyone who likes the .308, which I’d wager at least half of us own and enjoy shooting/see the value in it. If you want half of the forum to think of you as a troll, then by all means, throw your weight around some more and see how long you last.

 

[Kamerad]

The Swiss?????
You sure about that?

Yeah, you don’t know it? Turns targets into Swedish cheese from 20 MOA away.

 

[MadDuner]

So, with my .308.....
Do I need MOA or MIL?

You know, to go with my 5.45x39 AR74.

 

[Stevo86]

So, with my .308.....
Do I need MOA or MIL?

You know, to go with my 5.45x39 AR74.

IPHY

 

[MadDuner]

IPHY

I round all my MOAs off anyway.... then blame my 4 MOA misses on wind.

 

[Kamerad]

I round all my MOAs off anyway.... then blame my 4 MOA misses on Taco Bell.

FIFY

 

[CrabsandFootball]

The longer 308’s and short action rifles (re 308 length) are around, the more cartridges like 6.5cm will be spawned. There is a reason the .30-06 and .308 have become standardized action lengths and as a result a vast majority of the chamberings on the market today have those two as parent cartridges, and that reason has little to do with poor performance by 2020 standards and more to do with popularity, success, and the military track record of those two rounds. Sure its worth keeping around for another hundred years.

The proliferation of tens of millions of cheap milsurp rifles converted to hunting guns is the single biggest reason for their popularity. The military track record actually sucks for both of these considering every war since ww2 we have been fighting against superior machine guns. the rpd smokes a saw and the pkm is lighter and has better range than the 240 ( and the 240 is a fantastic weapon). Carried a saw in iraq and would have much rather had an rpd.
once the 300 and 338 norma mag mgs come online, shit will finally change.

308 and 3006 were poor choices in 1940, 1950,1960 and up until today.

nostalgia and ignorance is the only reason to bother with either of these.

 

[Powder_Burns]

The proliferation of tens of millions of cheap milsurp rifles converted to hunting guns is the single biggest reason for their popularity. The military track record actually sucks for both of these considering every war since ww2 we have been fighting against superior machine guns. the rpd smokes a saw and the pkm is lighter and has better range than the 240 ( and the 240 is a fantastic weapon). Carried a saw in iraq and would have much rather had an rpd.
once the 300 and 338 norma mag mgs come online, shit will finally change.

308 and 3006 were poor choices in 1940, 1950,1960 and up until today.

nostalgia and ignorance is the only reason to bother with either of these.

Bothering with a .308 is what gave rise to .243 win, .260 rem, 7mm-08, 6.5 creedmoor, 6.5x47, .358 win, .338 federal... .30-06 gave us .280 rem, .35 whelen, .270 win, 25-06...
plenty of game have been taken with any of those cartridges, plenty of guys are shooting those and enjoy them. The only other cartridge to have that kind of impact on shooting in general is the .375 h&h. The .308 win in particular didn’t stop being a deadly round once 6.5cm hit the market. It still drops anything on 4 legs in the lower 48, and the 30-06 is still the most popular round in Alaska for hunting.

 

[Basher]

Where's that meme about how the .308 hits a magic wall at 800 yards and then falls straight down? I feel like it applies here with regard to Crabsandfootball...

 

[E-Tool]

U hunt with a scar17 sbr , damn right I bought a 308 mrad barrel kit.

I like to keep calibers at a minimum, too bad one likes 140 grain, and one likes 175

 

[Powder_Burns]

Can’t wait to hear his thoughts on 12ga.

 

[CrabsandFootball]

Where's that meme about how the .308 hits a magic wall at 800 yards and then falls straight down? I feel like it applies here with regard to Crabsandfootball...

This is why you can't have an intelligent conversation on the internet. People like you resort to ad hominem when you don't possess the knowledge to debate like an adult.

 

[CrabsandFootball]

Bothering with a .308 is what gave rise to .243 win, .260 rem, 7mm-08, 6.5 creedmoor, 6.5x47, .358 win, .338 federal... .30-06 gave us .280 rem, .35 whelen, .270 win, 25-06...
plenty of game have been taken with any of those cartridges, plenty of guys are shooting those and enjoy them. The only other cartridge to have that kind of impact on shooting in general is the .375 h&h. The .308 win in particular didn’t stop being a deadly round once 6.5cm hit the market. It still drops anything on 4 legs in the lower 48, and the 30-06 is still the most popular round in Alaska for hunting.

Once again you are making an argument no one is debating.

Who knows what calibers would have been developed or been more popular if it wasn't so easy to modify the .308 parent case? Would 6.5 and higher BC friendly calibers that don't require a magnum load of power to perform gotten more popular faster?

You know how many great low density and wildcat calibers could have been fantastic mainstream 30., 40, 50, 60 years ago if the market wasn't flooded with cheap mil surps and plentiful ammo stockpiles from various world wars? I'm still shooting cheap greek 30-06 in my M1, because it was .10 a round. Nothing could compete with that commercially.

Does the fact that know nothing senior officers who were hell bent on keeping the 30 caliber in military service may have had something to do with the popularity of the commercial market?

US sniper systems just adopted the general issue ammo, it wasn't like during Vietnam when formal sniper programs were created along with procurement of hunting rifles they said, yea lets use ammo we can't get through supply channels.. Nor while it was changed till recently. And to drive it home further, SOCOM and their predecessor had already been using more advanced calibers at the time as they could procure them. SEALS were running McMillian 50's and 300WM long before due to inadequacy of the 308 in many scenarios.

A .22 never stopped being a deadly round, but how many of you are shooting 200 or even 300 yards with it. 5.56 is capable of being used at 1K, but how many are running that?

A 45-70 will drop any game on the planet how many of you are using it to take 300 yard shots?

Inferior is inferior.

Here is a parallel scenario. I have a 15 year old laptop in the garage somewhere. Do i keep spending money trying to keep it running. I can surf the internet and read email. It does the basic job required of a computer. If my modern PC goes down, you think I'm going to use that hunk of shit instead of buying a new pc or fixing my current one? One is clearly obsolete and inferior. I'm not a hipster so no reason to use old obsolete shit unless its a last resort.

Why even make the fucking thread if there is no debate to be had? You all are crying like little children who had their ice cream taken away.

Will .308 still be around in 100 years? As long as there guns out there and there are tens of millions so you can figure that out. Snipers with mosins probably killed more enemy than both German and American snipers combined. How many of you still running them? It was good enough for W W 2, so it must be good enough today? That's the logic you are sticking with?

One has a 20-40% higher chance of a first round hit on KD. Its probably much higher across the full spectrum of UKD. Its the same price(or cheaper) , abundantly available, has less recoil, has more energy at range, is easier to train new shooters on and is much more forgiving of wind calls.

If I am a hunter, rec shooter, competitor, LE or Military, why wouldn't I want the clearly better choice? Gonna wear some Lvl 3 body armor when LVL4 is available for free? Gonna buy a boat with 70 HP when you can get the 100HP for the same price?

I'm sure in the next 2-20 years a new caliber will come along and take the Creedmoor's lunch as tech evolves and we get better materials science.

And you are sitting here like a kid in a yugo talking about why its better than a modern sedan. Stupid

 

[CrabsandFootball]

Can’t wait to hear his thoughts on 12ga.

Can't wait to hear what this has to do with anything. Try harder to be witty.

 

[MRiles]

Is it worth keeping a 308 around?
After careful consideration and an in depth soul search, I have come to the enlightened conclusion of, sure why not?

 

[Boltyboi]

The proliferation of tens of millions of cheap milsurp rifles converted to hunting guns is the single biggest reason for their popularity. The military track record actually sucks for both of these considering every war since ww2 we have been fighting against superior machine guns. the rpd smokes a saw and the pkm is lighter and has better range than the 240 ( and the 240 is a fantastic weapon). Carried a saw in iraq and would have much rather had an rpd.
once the 300 and 338 norma mag mgs come online, shit will finally change.

308 and 3006 were poor choices in 1940, 1950,1960 and up until today.

nostalgia and ignorance is the only reason to bother with either of these.

Show me on the doll where the bad round touched you...

 

[Sniperstud]

I think the 6 mm’s and 6.5’s are great calibers. I started all my children out on them. They were a wonderful crutch for their lack of ability. They were able to learn about the adventure of shooting with much less worry of failure because, well..., we can’t have that now can we. Failure builds too much character, and that is just not acceptable in today’s society. It just doesn’t go well with our skinny jeans. I kept them using these pubescent chamberings until they grew enough hair on their sacks and developed the skill set to handle a man’s rifle. Then I bought them a .308.

If you shoot one of the modern wonder rounds, it’s not worth the risk to challenge a man with a .308. If you beat him, no one will care because it was just a .308. But, if you challenge a man who knows his rifle, and he hands you your ass, you will have lost everything, for everyone will take notice and will never let you forget it.

Seriously, I’ve got .223’s, 6.5’s, ..270’s, 308’s, .300WM’s, and even a 45-70. I love them all for different reasons. But I won’t be without a .308, even if I don’t shoot it as much as the flavor of the month.

 

[RRW]

Bothering with a .308 is what gave rise to .243 win, .260 rem, 7mm-08, 6.5 creedmoor, 6.5x47, .358 win, .338 federal... .30-06 gave us .280 rem, .35 whelen, .270 win, 25-06...
plenty of game have been taken with any of those cartridges, plenty of guys are shooting those and enjoy them. The only other cartridge to have that kind of impact on shooting in general is the .375 h&h. The .308 win in particular didn’t stop being a deadly round once 6.5cm hit the market. It still drops anything on 4 legs in the lower 48, and the 30-06 is still the most popular round in Alaska for hunting.

Don't keep feeding the troll, he just doesn't get it. Might as well bang your head against the wall.

 

[MadDuner]

Don't keep feeding the troll, he just doesn't get it. Might as well bang your head against the wall.

The actual subject matter of his “debate” doesn’t matter much.
He would take an opposite position and type just as much whether it was “Ford vs Chevy” or “Boxers vs Tighty Whiteys”.

The troll simply enjoys all the attention and seeing all his words on the screen.....

 

[diggler1833]

If I have to worry about increasing my chances of a first round hit with a better cartridge, then I'm totally out of MY element. Not yours, mine.

I'm not going to try to argue that there aren't better cartridges at bucking wind while offering flatter trajectory...because there are many. What I am saying is that given the environment, there are still quite a few people who would benefit more from a .308 or .30-06 than any of the popular PRS cartridges.

Are you going to go up to the old boy who lives deep in the woods and tell him that his Winchester 94 - that he has been killing deer with for decades- is antiquated and useless, and that what he should have instead is a 15lb rifle with 5-25x scope? Because those 40 yard shots sure aren't going to make themselves.

Aside from load development and getting DOPE, 75 percent of my shots are at living animals. I'm extremely blessed in that I can stroll out into my backyard so to say and shoot to about 8-900 yards in several places. I rarely do it though, and when hunting those same pastures I can simply set up in the middle and have a 400 yard shot at maximum. I'm a 1-2 MOA shooter off of shooting sticks depending on conditions, so that just about mates up perfectly *for me.

I almost don't dare to mention that I kill a shit ton of stuff with the lowly 5.56x45. I'm actually looking right now at the remains of a skunk 215 yards off of my back porch that took a 64gr Gold Dot two days ago...and I'm grateful that the wind has mostly been blowing the stench away.

Telling someone that their equipment sucks when you've never walked a mile in their shoes is pointless.

Time to go feed cows and enjoy the beauty before it gets hot.

 

[jphil108]

Once again you are making an argument no one is debating.

Who knows what calibers would have been developed or been more popular if it wasn't so easy to modify the .308 parent case? Would 6.5 and higher BC friendly calibers that don't require a magnum load of power to perform gotten more popular faster?

You know how many great low density and wildcat calibers could have been fantastic mainstream 30., 40, 50, 60 years ago if the market wasn't flooded with cheap mil surps and plentiful ammo stockpiles from various world wars? I'm still shooting cheap greek 30-06 in my M1, because it was .10 a round. Nothing could compete with that commercially.

Does the fact that know nothing senior officers who were hell bent on keeping the 30 caliber in military service may have had something to do with the popularity of the commercial market?

US sniper systems just adopted the general issue ammo, it wasn't like during Vietnam when formal sniper programs were created along with procurement of hunting rifles they said, yea lets use ammo we can't get through supply channels.. Nor while it was changed till recently. And to drive it home further, SOCOM and their predecessor had already been using more advanced calibers at the time as they could procure them. SEALS were running McMillian 50's and 300WM long before due to inadequacy of the 308 in many scenarios.

A .22 never stopped being a deadly round, but how many of you are shooting 200 or even 300 yards with it. 5.56 is capable of being used at 1K, but how many are running that?

A 45-70 will drop any game on the planet how many of you are using it to take 300 yard shots?

Inferior is inferior.

Here is a parallel scenario. I have a 15 year old laptop in the garage somewhere. Do i keep spending money trying to keep it running. I can surf the internet and read email. It does the basic job required of a computer. If my modern PC goes down, you think I'm going to use that hunk of shit instead of buying a new pc or fixing my current one? One is clearly obsolete and inferior. I'm not a hipster so no reason to use old obsolete shit unless its a last resort.

Why even make the fucking thread if there is no debate to be had? You all are crying like little children who had their ice cream taken away.

Will .308 still be around in 100 years? As long as there guns out there and there are tens of millions so you can figure that out. Snipers with mosins probably killed more enemy than both German and American snipers combined. How many of you still running them? It was good enough for W W 2, so it must be good enough today? That's the logic you are sticking with?

One has a 20-40% higher chance of a first round hit on KD. Its probably much higher across the full spectrum of UKD. Its the same price(or cheaper) , abundantly available, has less recoil, has more energy at range, is easier to train new shooters on and is much more forgiving of wind calls.

If I am a hunter, rec shooter, competitor, LE or Military, why wouldn't I want the clearly better choice? Gonna wear some Lvl 3 body armor when LVL4 is available for free? Gonna buy a boat with 70 HP when you can get the 100HP for the same price?

I'm sure in the next 2-20 years a new caliber will come along and take the Creedmoor's lunch as tech evolves and we get better materials science.

And you are sitting here like a kid in a yugo talking about why its better than a modern sedan. Stupid

6.5 CM is maybe a better choice for people who only hunt deer and coyotes, in which case a 6.5 grendel, .223, or even a .300 BLK is probably a better choice still than the creedmoor. it’s pretty hard the beat 185 grain pills at 2600 FPS on anything with teeth that is intent on eating you, and yes plenty of people do hunt with .45-70 in places that restrict them to straight walled cartridges, oddly enough some do it in other places with better gun laws because it is still a very effective cartridge that doesn’t much care if it hits a twig or branch on its way to the party and it’s easy to load very heavy rounds for subsonic use at night. Increasing mass is really the only effective way to increase energy on target when velocity is limited by that pesky sound barrier. Again, a ten twist .308 with 220 grain projectiles does reasonably well as a subsonic round with good energy downrange, I’m guessing soon we will learn how the creedmoor is better for that use as well if you do a quick barrel swap to a 1in 4 twist and single feeding 240 gr. Cast lead pencils.

And for boat engines,unless you’re comparing a 147 gr. 6.5 match load to a 150 gr. Surplus round it’s really more like a 70 hp vs. 80 hp engine But the 80 horse has to run 93 octane And needs head gaskets and exhaust valves and seats every other season to keep it running.

From a .mil/le perspective it would take a massive wartime budget to phase out the current stockpile of 7.62 and That transitional period likely leaves you open to lost readiness potential and confused weapons platforms with big risks associated with logistics of getting weapons and ammo overseas to deal with a rapidly developing situation. Additionally, the creedmoor will require considerably more barrel replacements to keep weapons functional which means added trips to the armorer, a greater float stock of weapons on hand to deal with added maintenance time and probably loss of training time while weapons are out and possible lost combat effectiveness if a barrel gets shot out at a time it can’t be sent out for maintenance, you know, like your lone outpost with no resupply situation. All that is to say that it will require huge costs to retool and higher consumable costs which will all get shouldered by John q. Taxpayer. If you look at USN aircraft in Korea, the navy was forced to choose between supporting the F4U Corsair or the F8F bearcat as it’s multi role fighter, the choice was simple in the Corsair because while it was about 10% slower and less maneuverable than the bearcat, it had the ability to carry a lot of ordinance for ground support and they had a much larger inventory of parts and could keep the aircraft operational for less money. On top of that, The F9 panther jet was coming on scene to handle the true air superiority roles so there just wasn’t a functional purpose to keep the bearcats around even though in almost every regard they were a better fighter plane. The pentagon is usually horrible at predicting what the next conflict will bring, but by selecting flexible equipment, they can be pretty adaptable to what happens next while keeping the tax payers happy in lean years where we aren’t in an active war.

yes, there were several other options out the besides the .308 parent case In the 50s. Rounds based on the 7x57 Mauser were very popular for a while, the 7x57 was slightly larger In case capacity, but was limited by low chamber pressures to shoot in old rifles, so the factory Ammo for .257 Roberts and .244 Remington was somewhat handicapped and quickly got outclassed by the .243 Winchester and the rifle/Ammo market could only support so much variety. Additionally the tapered cases of Mauser based variants made detachable magazines more difficult so almost all of those rounds disappeared from the market. The current creedmoor round offers little advantage over a .260, but Remington bungled that rounds deployment as poorly as the did .280 rem. Marketing plays a huge role in what we get.

Nothing against a 6.5 creedmoor but it is a more specialized cartridge that is tailored to a specific type of shooting and only truly excels within those boundaries. Windage and drop can both be overcome with good dope, experience, and a cheap rangefinder, my vote Is keep at least one ten twist .308 bolt action maintained, find a load it likes, and keep it in the safe.

 

[BurnOut]

IMO, .308 is worth keeping around for the simple fact that it is almost always a good option for most rifle-appropriate shooting scenarios. Rarely is it the best option, but it's almost always a good one. Versatility is what the .308 does better than pretty much anything else I can think of.

 

[Claymorx]

Can't wait to hear what this has to do with anything. Try harder to be witty.

It has to do with you knocking over lamps with your big old swing dick, and attacking people for making choices that are different than your own. You want to debate that's fine, but this isn't Facebook where you go around insulting everyone. Not everyone here has the cash to buy a new gun and reloading equipment everytime something new comes out. So no, ignorance and nostalgia are not the only reasons people own .308s and 30.06.