Just wondering if this is really required when seating the bullet. I am asking because without lubing I am already getting between 5-10 SD and I doubt I can get better by lubing the necks. Is lubing only for prolonging the case (neck) life?
Is lubing the neck really required?
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I lube the necks on new brass due to it being so clean.
After there is a bit of carbon in the necks I don't bother.
I also don't clean my brass squeaky clean, one cycle in tuff nut and done.
After there is a bit of carbon in the necks I don't bother.
I also don't clean my brass squeaky clean, one cycle in tuff nut and done.
No, lubing is not for prolonging case life. It's to help get consistent seating depth. . .particularly when neck tension is somewhat tight. This is easy enough to test on your own.
Thanks for all the replies. I will stick with no lube during bullet seating, and only lube when I FL
It’s easy enough to lube the bullets each session by spreading them on a cookie tray and spraying them with Lanolin or one shot or whatever and then shaking the tray back-and-forth
It makes for far more consistent neck tension, and there is a theoretical benefit to ceiling the powder against ambient moisture changes
It makes for far more consistent neck tension, and there is a theoretical benefit to ceiling the powder against ambient moisture changes
Great idea, think I will use this method going forward for my bulk reloading, Hornady 55's for classes etc.
EDIT: When I refer to lubing necks, it's the inside of the neck for seating purposes.
I've done some fairly extensive testing on this. I compared neck lube (neolube) vs. no neck lube in my 300 PRC over nearly 100 rounds for each modality.
With neck lube, I got, and still get, low 6s for SDs over large sample sizes. Without neck lube, SDs were in the 8.x range. Again, this is over close to 200 rounds of total testing. I also saw a noticeably larger group size for non-lubed necks (all shots at 500 yards), but I can't definitively attribute this to the fact that I wasn't using neck lube on those bullets due to the fact that using neck lube changes the pressure profile. I can't say for sure that I couldn't have tuned the non-lubed rounds to get better groups.
For reference, here is a plot on my amp press showing seating forces of the two. Guess which color is the "no lube" group.
I have also done extensive testing on seating force consistency and the correlation to muzzle velocity SDs.
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I've tried thousands of rounds both ways and the ones where I lubed the inside of the neck before seating bullets consistently yield lower SDs and smaller groups. I can make ammo that has single digit SDs without lubing the inside of the necks, sure, but I don't anymore, because the extra step only takes ~2mins and I know the ammo will come out slightly better and the SD number will be smaller, so I do it.
Guys forget sometimes that neck tension has more to do with hoop stress than friction, but friction affects whether all the projectiles can be repeatably seated to the same depth (so every round comes out the same). And we want them to all come out the same as possible to one and other.
All it takes is a q-tip wetted with a little lanolin/IPA mix and a quick swirl inside the mouth of each case in the loading block after powder has been dropped. You only have to hit the top inside ~1/4 of the neck, so it's easy to avoid contaminating the powder (the bullets spread out the lube and do the rest as you seat them). The lube dries out and then has no effect, it vaporizes when you pull the trigger.
Guys forget sometimes that neck tension has more to do with hoop stress than friction, but friction affects whether all the projectiles can be repeatably seated to the same depth (so every round comes out the same). And we want them to all come out the same as possible to one and other.
All it takes is a q-tip wetted with a little lanolin/IPA mix and a quick swirl inside the mouth of each case in the loading block after powder has been dropped. You only have to hit the top inside ~1/4 of the neck, so it's easy to avoid contaminating the powder (the bullets spread out the lube and do the rest as you seat them). The lube dries out and then has no effect, it vaporizes when you pull the trigger.
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You should try having a small container and just dipping the case necks. That's what I do with Neolube, and while it takes a little more lube due to coating the outside of the neck, it is very fast - just dip and wipe off the outside.
Curious as to the exact components and the mix ratio you're using for your lanolin/IPA brew.
LOL, that sounds WAY harder than what I do (which means I'd inevitably rationalize a reason for no longer doing it lol) and I don't want anything in the case neck before dropping powder.
I'm just using the standard ~1:10 of lanolin:IPA. I loosely followed this (I even bought and use the same Chemical Guys spray bottles):
Cheap Tricks — Make Your Own Case Lube with Lanolin « Daily Bulletin
Tired of spending $15-$25 for a can of spray lube that doesn't last that long? For about the same price as a single 10 oz. can you can make your own effective spray lube that should last for multiple seasons and lube thousands of cases quickly and easily. In the <a href=https://youtu.
(I have to finish loading some rounds later and I'll try to remember to make a ~10-30sec video I can post, as how I do it is easy, though, now that I think of it, I've never seen anyone do it like I do...)
FWIW, this is how I do it. It's quick, easy, and repeatable. There's powder in the cases, so you can't be a ham-fisted gorilla, but you can go fast and don't have to be overly careful either.
Just don't go too crazy or start with the Q-tip too wet and it's a cinch. You can even go through them a second time if you're not confident you got them all, just give it a minute for the alcohol to flash off.
Just don't go too crazy or start with the Q-tip too wet and it's a cinch. You can even go through them a second time if you're not confident you got them all, just give it a minute for the alcohol to flash off.
I tested neck lube in the case and found it to matter zero to SD/ ES. I also clean my brass extremely well every firing but did not see a change in SD/ ES and found it very easy to shoot 5-7 SD with just a rub of alpha sizing brass on the outside. That said, I don't go out of my way to avoid the inside of the case; I just don't swab it, either.
LOL, that sounds WAY harder than what I do (which means I'd inevitably rationalize a reason for no longer doing it lol) and I don't want anything in the case neck before dropping powder.
I'm just using the standard ~1:10 of lanolin:IPA. I loosely followed this (I even bought and use the same Chemical Guys spray bottles):
Cheap Tricks — Make Your Own Case Lube with Lanolin « Daily Bulletin
Tired of spending $15-$25 for a can of spray lube that doesn't last that long? For about the same price as a single 10 oz. can you can make your own effective spray lube that should last for multiple seasons and lube thousands of cases quickly and easily. In the <a href=https://youtu.bulletin.accurateshooter.com
(I have to finish loading some rounds later and I'll try to remember to make a ~10-30sec video I can post, as how I do it is easy, though, now that I think of it, I've never seen anyone do it like I do...)
I bookmarked that link for later reading. I think you just saved me from asking a bunch of stupid noob questions.
I went with the easy button
: I just dry tumble with rice to remove my Imperial Sizing Die Wax after sizing. Besides just leaving the carbon/residue inside the neck, that tumbling leaves a surface in the neck that makes for easy and consistent seating.
Just me or does that seem like a wildly inefficient use of lube?
Edit: autocorrect
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That was my first thought - it looks like a lot wasted, but I do not know what I am talking about, so . . .
It is, but I value my time more than using extra lube. I've tried "painting" the inside of the necks using a Q-Tip, but it adds a fair amount of time and doesn't seem to coat as evenly.
Regardless, I've probably coated 400 cases and still have much of my original 2 oz container remaining. Assuming I get 500 per ounce, that means I'll get 16000 out of the quart I ordered months ago. That quart cost me $122, or $.007 per case. If I order a gallon for 220, that comes down to $.0034 per case. Would it be nice to cut that cost in half (slightly more than that)? Sure. Do I care about spending an extra penny per three cases? Not in the least.
Everything you do always seems to be contrary to the rest of the world, yet there’s never any data to support your anecdotes.
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Yet somehow when I post my groups those also aren’t good enough for you?
It’s almost like people are doing a bunch of unnecessary steps that just add more variability and don’t lower sd/es…… if only I had spent years shooting f class and testing this stuff.
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This entire thread is about es/sd. Those are groups for that purpose. So there’s your proof. You claim I’m full of shit but I’m always the only one posting chronos……
If you’re unaware of how sd/es can effect ballistics shoot me a pm and I can teach you.
Never said this was a study to help you decide about the effects of lube. I’m telling you I don’t lube necks and you can shoot 5-7 sd without it just fine. Sorry that hurt your feelings.
Oh, I’ve already decided, and never eluded to needing your help.
Never touched moly.You’re covered in moly doing 6 extra steps to reload ammo that doesn’t shoot as good as my 20” suppressed 300 win mag. You might want to think about it
My SDs are lower than yours and my groups are smaller. And I’m just a hobbyist.
Says the guy with zero proof who is accusing the guy with proof of having none. Classic.
You calling me a dumbass then looking like a turkey when I post chronos backing everything I just said is getting to be routine.
Are pissing contests really that much fun? 
Don’t want to get in the purse swinging, but my experience is that it depends entirely on how much neck tension you have.
In the decade before I got an AMP annealer, I would try to shoot with about .001 or .0015 of neck tension. Super light. I could easily get low single digit SD that way but my ammo was fragile. I even tried testing no neck tension where I could slide the bullets in and out with my fingers, obviously carefully inserting them into the chamber. Obviously not suitable for match or practical use but impressive SDs.
I had one of the forester micarta dry lube tools and it obviously made no difference at that level of tension.
After I had a precision annealer I was able to get similarly low SDs with .002+ neck tension. In those cases, I believe lube helped but I’ve long since lost my notes. I don’t currently use lube and still get mid single digits.
In the decade before I got an AMP annealer, I would try to shoot with about .001 or .0015 of neck tension. Super light. I could easily get low single digit SD that way but my ammo was fragile. I even tried testing no neck tension where I could slide the bullets in and out with my fingers, obviously carefully inserting them into the chamber. Obviously not suitable for match or practical use but impressive SDs.
I had one of the forester micarta dry lube tools and it obviously made no difference at that level of tension.
After I had a precision annealer I was able to get similarly low SDs with .002+ neck tension. In those cases, I believe lube helped but I’ve long since lost my notes. I don’t currently use lube and still get mid single digits.
I said you do not need to lube to shoot 5-7 SD. to which you said "yet there’s never any data to support your anecdotes."
That is fundamentally not true and now you're looking at other telling you what I said is exactly true. All while im still the only one to offer proof
Let me guess, I have to use mandrels for low sd too??
Post something with some statistical significance.
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You don’t have any actual data there. 12 shots may as well be none, and the Garmin will always display a lower SD because it uses population rather than sample. You should lube your necks.
There’s 19 and 22 shot groups and I just pulled right off my Garmin as I sat here. Not your cherry picked bs from last year.
You’re so desperate to be right you’re going to make a std.p argument……. lol
Seriously if you pm me I’ll teach you how to reload better rounds with less effort.
To get back on track... Is lubing the inside of the necks required? No.
But myself and others have seen an improvement in our ammo when adding it into our process.
I posted how I do it earlier mostly to show how easy it is to try it. Most anyone reading this already has everything they need to try it themselves for free.
Like many of us, I'm always trying to get out of doing any unnecessary reloading steps if I can, sometimes it's a "better way" of doing something, and sometimes it's reevaluating if any of one's steps really matter enough to bother with and/or show up on targets?
I've gone back and forth on this a few times, and for me, batches of rounds where I lube the inside of the necks before seating bullets always seem to come out better. I'm not going to spend the rest of my days driving back to the forth to the range trying "half lubed vs half no-lube" over and over, because I've gone back and forth on it and already tried that enough times to be fairly positive I already know which is better. Besides, the lubed rounds are never worse, and the juice is worth the squeeze since it only costs a few minutes.
IME, I've seen it turn an AVG SD of ~7-9 into ~4-6, and a ~4-6 AVG SD into ~1.5-4 which, considering all the other way more annoying reloading PITA BS we have to do to load rounds, is worth a few extra minutes to me.
But myself and others have seen an improvement in our ammo when adding it into our process.
I posted how I do it earlier mostly to show how easy it is to try it. Most anyone reading this already has everything they need to try it themselves for free.
Like many of us, I'm always trying to get out of doing any unnecessary reloading steps if I can, sometimes it's a "better way" of doing something, and sometimes it's reevaluating if any of one's steps really matter enough to bother with and/or show up on targets?
I've gone back and forth on this a few times, and for me, batches of rounds where I lube the inside of the necks before seating bullets always seem to come out better. I'm not going to spend the rest of my days driving back to the forth to the range trying "half lubed vs half no-lube" over and over, because I've gone back and forth on it and already tried that enough times to be fairly positive I already know which is better. Besides, the lubed rounds are never worse, and the juice is worth the squeeze since it only costs a few minutes.
IME, I've seen it turn an AVG SD of ~7-9 into ~4-6, and a ~4-6 AVG SD into ~1.5-4 which, considering all the other way more annoying reloading PITA BS we have to do to load rounds, is worth a few extra minutes to me.
Group sizes went down accross the board with the use of a mandrell for me regardless of caliber.
I can attest to that and do the same.
I use 21st Century TiN coated mandrels with no lube.
If I want .001" tension I use the expander mandrel or the turning arbor for .002" tension.
I also neck turn most of my bolt gun brass so that's an extra step most don't really feel is necessary.
I’ve shot mandrel, sizing button, no sizing button or mandrel. The truth is it doesn’t matter that much and the whidden/ sac FL is perfectly fine and much easier to use. Remember the more handling steps you add the more room for error and deviation there is.
If you arent already shooting 5-7 sd and trying to get to 1-4 you don’t need a mandrel, neck lube, annealer, moly, arbor dies, sort components or turn necks. And since this isn’t an f class or benchrest page the difference between 6 and 3 sd virtually zero under 1k yards.
If you arent already shooting 5-7 sd and trying to get to 1-4 you don’t need a mandrel, neck lube, annealer, moly, arbor dies, sort components or turn necks. And since this isn’t an f class or benchrest page the difference between 6 and 3 sd virtually zero under 1k yards.
