Is lubing the neck really required?

[straightshooter1]

Thanks for the extra help. I admit, primers are seated by feel using the RCBS automatic bench priming tool, so maybe I need some schooling on that. I stop when I feel them bottom out, and don't crush, then run a finger over to make sure it's just below flush with the case head.

I initially was using Winchester WLRM in the 338 years ago, but got better results when I switched to the 215M. I haven't tried others.

I'm heavily invested in Retumbo, but you may be right. I sure hope you aren't !

The batch of 300PRC brass (200 pcs) is currently finishing up their second firing, about to process for their third. I recently got an AMP and intended to only anneal after every third firing. Are you a proponent of annealing every firing?

I do feel one can get by just fine by annealing after every 3rd firing. A lot depends on just how much work is being done on the brass when it's being sized. Have the sizing die's neck honed so that the neck of the brass isn't being reduced by .010 or so then expanded out by .008 can help a lot with that. I have my sizing dies honed to .003 smaller that where I'll be expanding them to (this too depends on variations one might have in the brass being used). In any case, yes. . . I like annealing after every firing.

The batch of 338NM brass (250 pcs) is currently finishing up their third firing, and I mis-spoke. It is Norma brass. I have some new Lapua brass for it on hand, but forgot I was still using the Norma right now (Lapua wasn't available in 338NM when I acquired the Norma brass, but is now). I have nothing but Lapua brass for all my other cartridges (338LM, 300NM, and 300PRC), so I somehow forgot that I haven't actually put the 338NM Lapua brass into service yet since Lapua is all I normally use on everything.

IMHO, that Norma brass could be a big part of the issue you have in getting your SD's where you want them. I do think they can be worked and sorted to get you there, but's it takes a little work.

Garmin chrono ever since they first came out, Labradar for 6 or 7 years before that, MS3 for 1 year before that, and a couple different optical chronos (ugh) going back to the dark ages when that's all there was. God Bless you, Garmin...

Yeah, I got the Garmin then also. It's the cat's meow for now. Before that I had gone with with MagnetoSpeed v3 and have been waiting for affordable technology that works well to come along.

 

[Baron23]

Gee...and here I was hoping to read some more about the pro/cons of neck lubing prior to bullet seating.

I just got some NEO Lube #2, loaded a batch, didn't see any difference in ES/SD from using powdered graphic. But it really was easy and clean to apply with a q-tip and evenly coated the inside of the neck.

But I really am a novice at metallic reloading compared to some on this site.

Cheers

 

[Rocketmandb]

I just got some NEO Lube #2, loaded a batch, didn't see any difference in ES/SD from using powdered graphic. But it really was easy and clean to apply with a q-tip and evenly coated the inside of the neck.

Dip it!

 

[giumau1]

@Maurygold and @straightshooter1 mention of the Primer precision gauge is a great suggestion. I bought it recently and together with 21 C priming tool or the PMA one will turn your priming vudoo into a totally informed decision and repeteable process.
Me, tested yesterday the @CK1.0 routine. Pretty pleased by the results.
I will call it a day and keep on doing that.

 

[kthomas]

I just purchased some Neo Lube #2 to try for myself

I'm going to test 25 rounds of .300NM without lube, against 25 rounds of .300NM lubed with Neo Lube #2 per @Rocketmandb's method.

Should arrive mid next week. Will report back on results. I'll shoot two 25 round strings over a chrono and compare SD/ES between the two.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

I just purchased some Neo Lube #2 to try for myself

I'm going to test 25 rounds of .300NM without lube, against 25 rounds of .300NM lubed with Neo Lube #2 per @Rocketmandb's method.

Should arrive mid next week. Will report back on results. I'll shoot two 25 round strings over a chrono and compare SD/ES between the two.

I'm curious to see your results.

 

[kthomas]

I'm curious to see your results.

I'm pretty interested as well. @Rocketmandb's results with Neo Lube has me intrigued, and I love to experiment with this kind of stuff.

My .300NM load has a bit higher SD than I would like (~9 SD last time I took it out), and if Neo Lube can reduce that by a few fps, I will be happy.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

I'm pretty interested as well. @Rocketmandb's results with Neo Lube has me intrigued, and I love to experiment with this kind of stuff.

My .300NM load has a bit higher SD than I would like (~9 SD last time I took it out), and if Neo Lube can reduce that by a few fps, I will be happy.

Yeah I've not really tested Lube and such but I would like to have an option to get SD down as well as be able to feel a little better about loading a bunch of ammo and putting it up, and it still shooting as well as I'd like it to when I do shoot it in the future.

 

[vh20]

Yeah I've not really tested Lube and such but I would like to have an option to get SD down as well as be able to feel a little better about loading a bunch of ammo and putting it up, and it still shooting as well as I'd like it to when I do shoot it in the future.

This is a big deal to me - ES/SD increasing over time after they're loaded. I've experienced this to the point that I refrain from charging and seating cases until I'm ready to shoot, and that's a pain. I'm also in the camp looking for a solution, and a good neck lube seems to me to be the most logical place to start.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

This is a big deal to me - ES/SD increasing over time after they're loaded. I've experienced this to the point that I refrain from charging and seating cases until I'm ready to shoot, and that's a pain. I'm also in the camp looking for a solution, and a good neck lube seems to me to be the most logical place to start.

Yeah it does. With 6cm and 6.5cm I wouldn't be too scared to put some sizing wax on the inside of the neck but that's a major pain. I really don't relish the thought of doing it even with neolube but I would if I knew I could improve sd AND it would stay that way for a long period of time. I'd really like to find a solution for doing 223 while using my feeder on the 550 as well so I could load a bunch of them and not worry about it. Wonder if neolube would stay on this inside of the case through getting jumbled around in a case feeder?

 

[Rocketmandb]

Wonder if neolube would stay on this inside of the case through getting jumbled around in a case feeder?

When I dip the necks, it sticks on very well - almost like paint. The only thing I could suggest is to spend $35 on a 2oz container from Amazon and try it for yourself.

 

[CK1.0]

I just shot through 100 I had loaded and had sitting on the shelf for over a year (that I'd used case lube for the inside of the necks) and I got about the same SD as I'd expect from ones loaded yesterday.

 

[vh20]

When I dip the necks, it sticks on very well - almost like paint. The only thing I could suggest is to spend $35 on a 2oz container from Amazon and try it for yourself.

On Amazon, the only Neolube 2 I can find is by Micro Mark, with a different label than the one pictured in your video (Post #18), which I believe is from Huron Ind. Do you know if these are the same product from different vendors? I don't see the one you have for sale anywhere except Etsy, and I'm a little suspect of it.

 

[Rocketmandb]

On Amazon, the only Neolube 2 I can find is by Micro Mark, with a different label than the one pictured in your video (Post #18), which I believe is from Huron Ind. Do you know if these are the same product from different vendors? I don't see the one you have for sale anywhere except Etsy, and I'm a little suspect of it.

I have a feeling it's same thing under different distributor banners. NeoLube is the registered trademark. I believe that Huron Industries is the manufacturer and they supply the nuclear industry. Micro Mark is a hobbyist brand that likely just buys in bulk and repackages in more hobby-friendly quantities.

EDIT: Neolube.com points to a Huron page.

 

[vh20]

That's what I was seeing. I'd rather buy it under the Huron label just be sure it's the right stuff, but it's hard to find (at least right now).

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

When I dip the necks, it sticks on very well - almost like paint. The only thing I could suggest is to spend $35 on a 2oz container from Amazon and try it for yourself.

Yeah that's what I will end up doing. I've thought about it for a while just never done it. Of course here lately I haven't done much of anything but work and kids. I think the biden economy is going to help me out with one of those issues though soon so I may have more time to shoot next year than I did this year.

 

[kthomas]

I bought the Micro-Mark stuff to try out. I reached out to Huron to see if it's the same product, waiting to hear back.

 

[Baron23]

I bought the Micro Mark. This product is simply colloidal graphite in ISO and I would bet large that Micro Mark is not manf this product themselves and its just a white label of the Huron product.

 

[308pirate]

it's the only one emploring science to restructure the brass grains. You have no idea what you're doing with salt or a torch with respect to this - so yes, I firmly believe it is the only annealer with the potential to consistently provide benefit.

Idiots with torches can ABSOLUTELY do more damage than good thinking they need to be annealing.

"What it does do best is extend the life of the brass." this is factual. thinking it causes better groups is not.

Tell me you know nothing about annealing while telling everyone you know about annealing.

 

[Maurygold]

Tell me you know nothing about annealing while telling everyone you know about annealing.

Bro is punching air right now cause I insulted his blow torch. Read a book

 

[morganlamprecht]

This is a big deal to me - ES/SD increasing over time after they're loaded. I've experienced this to the point that I refrain from charging and seating cases until I'm ready to shoot, and that's a pain. I'm also in the camp looking for a solution, and a good neck lube seems to me to be the most logical place to start.

this is why i added cleaning necks (wet tumbling) and dry neck lubing to my process a long time ago

i had anywhere from 5-10 barrels in rotation when i was competing and sometimes ammo for one barrel would get loaded and not shot for 1 yr+...i would notice changes in performance when it was shelved when i was only dry tumbling and leaving necks in that dirty state

now i rarely shoot matches anymore, but the last couple i did...that ammo had been loaded and the rifle sitting for like 2.5-3 yrs...right where i had left it

 

[Mike Casselton]

Are pissing contests really that much fun?

Not until their tips touch. Then the fun begins.

 

[Tokay444]

Not until their tips touch. Then the fun begins.

Mine would swallow that shrivelled old shrimp whole.

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

I shot single digit long before I had a 419 press or an autotrickler - those are in no way required to shoot single digit

Curiosity got the better of me - what did you use before you sprung for the 419 press and autotrickler?

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

I also use drop tubes when pouring powder

20 questions today . . . what is this drop tubes?

 

[308pirate]

Read a book

Lol....ok

How about you spend the better part of 15 years working with heat treaters to make critical aerospace parts?

 

[Mike Casselton]

Mine would swallow that shrivelled old shrimp whole.

Is that like a "docking" thing?

 

[Tokay444]

Is that like a "docking" thing?

Yeah, but minus the foreskin.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

Pretty simple and quick:

I loaded 200 rounds of 223Rem last week. Wiping off the exterior got old really quick due to the small tedious size of the cases.

 

[Maurygold]

Curiosity got the better of me - what did you use before you sprung for the 419 press and autotrickler?

RCBS single and cm lite. Both are fine pieces of kit and upgrading is hardly worth it for these two.

Drop tubes are vertical stacks on the funnel that accelerate the powder so it compresses better in the case when pouring.

 

[Maurygold]

Lol....ok

How about you spend the better part of 15 years working with heat treaters to make critical aerospace parts?

I’ll keep that in mind next time I consider sending my rifle to space……

But forreal would love to see any articles you’ve written that support the amp people being frauds

 

[Tokay444]

Have you ever seen one in person ? They make them plenty small enough for primer pocket work .

Here’s my Brown & Sharpe that are small enough to actually work.
But unless you’re indexing your primer seater off the case head somehow and not the rim of the extractor groove, or you’ve sorted your brass by rim thickness, then measuring primer pocket depth is all but pointless.

 

[308pirate]

But forreal would love to see any articles you’ve written that support the amp people being frauds

They're not frauds. You are.

 

[kthomas]

I bought the Micro Mark. This product is simply colloidal graphite in ISO and I would bet large that Micro Mark is not manf this product themselves and its just a white label of the Huron product.

Huron just confirmed with me that it is the exact same product.

 

[Baron23]

Huron just confirmed with me that it is the exact same product.

Thanks for the feedback!

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

RCBS single and cm lite. Both are fine pieces of kit and upgrading is hardly worth it for these two.

Drop tubes are vertical stacks on the funnel that accelerate the powder so it compresses better in the case when pouring.

I am just getting started, but I have the RCBS Rock Chucker and the Chargemaster Link. I also bought a little hand trickler and thought I might get the A&D FX-120 scale one day as an upgrade. Drop on the Chargemaster, move the cup to the A&D and hand trickle it up.

For now it will be the Chargemaster alone.

Keeping my fingers crossed that this works well for me. 6 GT using the Hornady FL dies that have the neck cut to .002 tension for Alpha brass.

So is the drop tube just this long tube at the bottom of this picture?

 

[Snuby642]

Brush up on your skills.

 

[Maurygold]

They're not frauds. You are.

Truth is in the numbers. That why I always post my chronos so when attack me you have no way of explaining how I’m continuing to shoot and reload at the level I am.

Id also point out I agree with the amp guys, and you just said you agree with them. So I don’t know why you’re so upset.

The real question is how do you have all that knowledge and formal education to be an aerospace engineer yet can’t reload better than me?? (I’m not a fucking loser so I don’t try to flex my career on people)

 

[Maurygold]

I am just getting started, but I have the RCBS Rock Chucker and the Chargemaster Link. I also bought a little hand trickler and thought I might get the A&D FX-120 scale one day as an upgrade. Drop on the Chargemaster, move the cup to the A&D and hand trickle it up.

For now it will be the Chargemaster alone.

Keeping my fingers crossed that this works well for me. 6 GT using the Hornady FL dies that have the neck cut to .002 tension for Alpha brass.

So is the drop tube just this long tube at the bottom of this picture?

View attachment 8468679

Buy a giraud long before the fx. You should be seeing 7-12 sd consistently with the cm before considering upgrading.

Thats good brass it deserves a good die. Look into Whidden

 

[Haney]

Here’s my Brown & Sharpe that are small enough to actually work.
But unless you’re indexing your primer seater off the case head somehow and not the rim of the extractor groove, or you’ve sorted your brass by rim thickness, then measuring primer pocket depth is all but pointless.
View attachment 8468637

Very feminine hand , is that shit under your finger nail ? Dusty was right .

 

[Tokay444]

Truth is in the numbers. That why I always post my chronos so when attack me you have no way of explaining how I’m continuing to shoot and reload at the level I am.

Id also point out I agree with the amp guys, and you just said you agree with them. So I don’t know why you’re so upset.

The real question is how do you have all that knowledge and formal education to be an aerospace engineer yet can’t reload better than me?? (I’m not a fucking loser so I don’t try to flex my career on people)

Your chrono numbers aren't anything to brag about though.

 

[Tokay444]

Very feminine hand , is that shit under your finger nail ? Dusty was right .

If it is, it's because you lied when you said your pipe was clean.

 

[Maurygold]

Your chrono numbers aren't anything to brag about though.

I’m shooting a 20” suppressed carbon barrel 300 win mag…… you may not think they’re impressive but they’re real and consistent and none of you ever do what I did. I posted straight off my Garmin what my last groups were.

You on the other hand cherry pick 1 year old chronos to try to look relevant.

 

[Tokay444]

The larger the case volume, the less of an effect a kernel or powder has on the total velocity. It’s simple percentages. Your SD’s aren’t impressive in the slightest. You should probably anneal.

 

[Maurygold]

The larger the case volume, the less of an effect a kernel or powder has on the total velocity. It’s simple percentages. Your SD’s aren’t impressive in the slightest. You should probably anneal.

Bro don’t you have more year old chronos to go try and find?

 

[Tokay444]

Bro don’t you have more year old chronos to go try and find?

I haven’t needed to chrono in that long because my load repeats, but just for you, I’ll get another single digit 60+ shot string, with a caliber where one kernel is going to make a heck of a lot more impact than something with 80gr capacity.

 

[Maurygold]

I haven’t needed to chrono in that long because my load repeats, but just for you, I’ll get another single digit 60 shot string, with a caliber where one kernel is going to make a heck of a lot more impact than something with 80gr capacity.

Nah just screenshot your Garmin right now. They save. Don’t need you to go cherry pick more loads for the next 3 months.

And if you’re shooting a bunch without a chrono. Just lol at the lack of understanding of shooting and recording environmental impact on speed.

 

[Tokay444]

Nah just screenshot your Garmin right now. They save. Don’t need you to go cherry pick more loads for the next 3 months.

And if you’re shooting a bunch without a chrono. Just lol at the lack of understanding of shooting and recording environmental impact on speed.

I use a Magnetospeed.
It goes on when it needs to. I haven’t needed to. I believe the bullet. You’ve never posted an actual group.

 

[Maurygold]

I use a Magnetospeed.
It goes on then it needs to. I haven’t needed to. I believe the bullet. You’ve never posted an actual group.

That’s all we need to know about your opinions. Thanks bud.

I’ve also posted groups. You discount those and act like you’re better while posting nothing.

 

[Tokay444]

That’s all we need to know about your opinions. Thanks bud.

I’ve also posted groups. You discount those and act like you’re better while posting nothing.

You have never posted a group of shots on a target. You call a picture of your chronograph a group. The same way you call a caliper a micrometer.
I am better, because I’m not you.