No it does not mean you have a PHD. But I do grant you have a lot of BS. I'll give you a hint on what the BS, MS, PHD means. The PHD means Piled Higher and Deeper. Now with you intellect I am you can figure out what the MS means.
Is the POF P308 G4 worth the extra thousand over Ruger SR-762?
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No it does not mean you have a PHD. But I do grant you have a lot of BS. I'll give you a hint on what the BS, MS, PHD means. The PHD means Piled Higher and Deeper. Now with you intellect I am you can figure out what the MS means.
Nope, I only have one BS.. Don't give me credit I didn't earn.
I know its confusing for you GED types. But the world needs ditch diggers.
What any private equity holding group does when it buys a known brand. Push it out faster, cheaper and with less quality to pad the bottom line. Other than Barnes, there is not one Freedom Group company that has not gone to absolute shit since their acquisition. Half of them were already shit companies/products in their defense........
i had very bad experiences with POS myself. i personally would never buy from them again knowing that if i were to have a problem they would simply not do anything about it. and as you know POS has had many problems.
Thanks for all of the fun input
I am looking at piston designs for ammo reasons and adding a suppressor. That being said I think I have a good idea of what POF has to offer-thanks for all the input. A few have mentioned HK-look great but too much money.
What is your take on PWS MK 216 rifle?
I am looking at piston designs for ammo reasons and adding a suppressor. That being said I think I have a good idea of what POF has to offer-thanks for all the input. A few have mentioned HK-look great but too much money.
What is your take on PWS MK 216 rifle?
I'd put PWS way up there in the piston-driven realm. They've genuinely got a great design.
On a side note, they're from Idaho. So you know you're buying from a bunch of good ole country boys that know only one thing. Guns. Great folks out there...
On a side note, they're from Idaho. So you know you're buying from a bunch of good ole country boys that know only one thing. Guns. Great folks out there...
Thanks for all of the fun input
I am looking at piston designs for ammo reasons and adding a suppressor. That being said I think I have a good idea of what POF has to offer-thanks for all the input. A few have mentioned HK-look great but too much money.
What is your take on PWS MK 216 rifle?
There was a dude on here who ran the shit out of a PWS 214 but I can't remember his name. He seemed very happy with it. Their prices have gone up considerably though from then (sub 2300) to now (3000?).
Honestly I'd rather have an LMT MWS, GAP10, Larue PredOBR, JP rifle, they all seem to shoot well. A suppressed SCAR17 would be neat too I think you can get them for 2500$ now.
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I already do. I have a converted saiga 308. I would like a nicer more accurate 308 to go with it.
Do you not like the piston AR's? I believe the scar is piston is that one you prefer?
The Scar is fine if you want a c 308 carbine (battle rifle concept) however if your looking for a precision rifle it's a bit disappointing at least to me. Mine is 1.5 moa with the best match reloads I have. The same loads in my bolt gun are .5 moa. Not saying the scar is bad but just realize what it was made to do. I may be selling mine soon if I can do it win out taking too much of a bath.
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The SCAR is a good choice if you want to run around with the gun, shoot from different positions, etc. The POF or any of these other 10 pound guns without optics or magazine are going to be quite a workout to do anything with besides lay on the ground. Not saying it can't be done, just that it will be that much more difficult than using a 7 pound AR15.
Scar is not an AR. Apples to Oranges. The AR system was designed as DI. Its a topic that has been beaten to death over the last 5-8 years.
Bottom line, outside of the HK416 in very niche and specialized roles, Piston Ar's are always a poor choice to DI.
More expense, more weight, less accuracy, proprietary parts, less parts availibility, more complex and in most cases, MORE unreliable than DI.
Good rule of thumb, people pushing Piston AR's are the ones you specificaly ignore and do not take any advice from. If you want to learn about AR's go to Lightfighter and M4c. They are much more tuned in over there than most of the populace here.
Yes beacuse we don't match loads to the gun.........all guns must shoot what one gun shoots well in order to be considered good right?
This forum is littered with people who get 1/2-1MOA out of their SCARS, feel free to search. You are the exception..................Coincidence?
What I find wham I have found from my own experience and from my friends who also own the scar is that it's a battle rifle not a precision rifle. You have even said the same thing yourself. The best claims are 1 moa. That is not the average. In reality it's a 1.5 moa gun with good ammo give or take.
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I get around .75 with 168FGMM , SW175 and CC 175 Gasser Ammo. Cousin's gun shoots a tad tighter (must be the more accurate FDE) and my Dad's gun shoots closer to 1MOA. Sounds like your peeps needs to learn some marksmanship. Next time I head down to quantico, I'll take some pics.
My personal opinion, Never trust someone trying to sell you a product. Take EVERYTHING they say with a grain of salt.........
Conflict of interest and all that..........Selling a gun does not make one a competent expert on the usage of the product. Plenty of Car Salesmen out there........very few NASCAR and F1 drivers.
My personal take is never trust anyone who tells you there is only one true gun like the SCAR 17. They have a tendency to justify their personal choice above all others and will go to great links to do so and will try to attack anyone who disagrees with them. The truth is their are lots of good choices out there.
Pat
But what is the average group size.
I have a Geissele trigger as well and most of my load testing was done when I was using a Nightforce 2.5-10 scope.
SCAR 17 Targets Photos by 355sigfan | Photobucket
Sometimes I could get groups like this.
But its not the norm for the rifle.
This is the norm I have seen with my best load.
Some of us have been in this game a long time. Some have been doing it in a proffesional and serious hobbiest manner for a long time. 90% of the trash that comes through a gun store, is just that trash. A mark, an informed customer usualy pushed products be a equaly uninformed salesman. Even the best shops, are still WAY behind the curve. It is almost impossible to be a competent and honest object gun nut and a gun salesman. They are mutualy exclusive.
There are a very small percentage who eat breath and live this shit. I have yet to meet someone who peddles this shit come close to my level of firearms competence and knowledge. Hundreds of FFL's and various sales people over multiple states... and I'm still waiting. You might find a guy who knows more about revolvers or ruger #1's or some other subset, but overall......VERY few across the full spectrum.
While their are some ignorant people in the gun retail business there are also some good people as well. Just like any profession. Some good some bad. I think its very unfair of you to slam Birdog6424 without even knowing him just because he does not share your opinion.
I wasn't slaming him.... I stated why I have a great distrust of salesman who push products based on a that theory being proven every single time I have walked into a gun or any store for that matter. A manufacture is more likely to reccomend a competing product than a saleman reccomending something they don't stock/sell.
He got pissy, offended and started to make arguements against claims I did not even make. Strawman at it's best.
Back to the original question,
The Gen4 POF P308 might not be worth the extra 1K over the Ruger SR 762, but A Gen3 POF is certainly better for less money.
I own Ruger's piston 5.56 and it's reliable, a bit heavy and not necessarily accurate, so their 7.62 wouldn't be my first choice for a piston driven precision shooter. I was looking at the Sig 716 DMR since it was around 2200, but it's so new to the market- it's is hard to find any unbiased reviews (imagine that) and I heard about some issues with the fit & finish (specifically on the top rail).
To be honest, I never took a good look at POF because the price was out of my range. I finally came across a dealer (Gotammo in AZ) advertising them on Armslist for under $1750. They're not the Gen4, but they are Gen3's going for below dealer cost. When I compared features to other "DMR" or SASS type rifles, $1749 for a piston 308 with a 20" match barrel with 5R rifling, light weight (2lbs lighter than the SIG) sounded like a great deal. I got my rifle yesterday and the weight, fit and finish on everything is exemplary. You're not going to get a cheap bipod or folding backup sights that most of the lower budget SASS, DMR, REPR style rifles come with out of the box, but you will get a much higher quality shooter with a barrel and internals every bit as good as the $3000 and up "precision" ARs. I even like the stock trigger. By spending 1749.00 on the Rifle I was able to get myself higher quality accessories for the same as the cost of the DMR. Attached is a pic of my P308 with an Atlas Bipod & Larue mount, Ergo Deluxe Grip, Burris red dot mounted offset on the other side (not visible in this pic) for close range & backup duty. I spent about $2050 for the rifle as you see it in the picture (minus the scope and rings). I'm not feeling like I got last year's model because this one is Factory Fresh, the "Completion Date" on the warranty card reads 8/6/2014. To me it's a no brainier, like picking up a new 2014 Range Rover for the price of a 2015 Grand Cherokee.
I purchased this rifle last week and they still had a bunch in stock if you're interested.
Best of luck!
The Gen4 POF P308 might not be worth the extra 1K over the Ruger SR 762, but A Gen3 POF is certainly better for less money.
I own Ruger's piston 5.56 and it's reliable, a bit heavy and not necessarily accurate, so their 7.62 wouldn't be my first choice for a piston driven precision shooter. I was looking at the Sig 716 DMR since it was around 2200, but it's so new to the market- it's is hard to find any unbiased reviews (imagine that) and I heard about some issues with the fit & finish (specifically on the top rail).
To be honest, I never took a good look at POF because the price was out of my range. I finally came across a dealer (Gotammo in AZ) advertising them on Armslist for under $1750. They're not the Gen4, but they are Gen3's going for below dealer cost. When I compared features to other "DMR" or SASS type rifles, $1749 for a piston 308 with a 20" match barrel with 5R rifling, light weight (2lbs lighter than the SIG) sounded like a great deal. I got my rifle yesterday and the weight, fit and finish on everything is exemplary. You're not going to get a cheap bipod or folding backup sights that most of the lower budget SASS, DMR, REPR style rifles come with out of the box, but you will get a much higher quality shooter with a barrel and internals every bit as good as the $3000 and up "precision" ARs. I even like the stock trigger. By spending 1749.00 on the Rifle I was able to get myself higher quality accessories for the same as the cost of the DMR. Attached is a pic of my P308 with an Atlas Bipod & Larue mount, Ergo Deluxe Grip, Burris red dot mounted offset on the other side (not visible in this pic) for close range & backup duty. I spent about $2050 for the rifle as you see it in the picture (minus the scope and rings). I'm not feeling like I got last year's model because this one is Factory Fresh, the "Completion Date" on the warranty card reads 8/6/2014. To me it's a no brainier, like picking up a new 2014 Range Rover for the price of a 2015 Grand Cherokee.
I purchased this rifle last week and they still had a bunch in stock if you're interested.
Best of luck!
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This is what happens when narcissism, age, and the internet intersect... You talk about objectivity yet you are literally the biggest KAC and SCAR fanboy on the Hide.
LOL. .308 has higher pressure than 7.62Nato.
And Snipershide used to be pretty full of knowledgable professions.
This thread sounds like a bunch of little kids arguing. Can't back up your argument with facts? Just start calling the other person names.
Read slow and try harder to sound everything out over there Einstein. I never said 7.62 NATO produced greater pressures than .308 Win. My comparison was in the context of 3 gunners' handloads that have predictable and repeatable internal ballistics properties. The heavier mass keeps the bolt locked longer and pressures moving forward as opposed to moving towards the shooter.
M118LR is loaded to 52,000 CUP anyway, rendering pressures nearly identical. Discussion was about a rifles design intent, not comparing 7.62 NATO to 308 Win. Thanks for the fantastic contribution though.
We don't have super douper special rifle loads in 3 gun with magical internal ballistics.
Pat
You ever think that maybe someone forms an opinion based on experience? It's not like I woke up one day and said you know what, KAC and FN are great. I am very objective and have numerous times repeated why I support both entities. Take a look at the top circles of the military and industry, all the top trainers and pros. There is a reason many of them shoot KAC and own KAC as personal guns. The only people that talk shit about it, are former mil who were issued rifles that were speced the way the ARMY wanted them, not KAC, coupled along with poor maintenance. The others are those too poor too afford quality, so they run their sucks to justify their cheaper purchases. Whatever helps you sleep at night.
So next time, try to think a tad before posting bone headed dumb shit.
I think despite what you want everyone to believe you only really shoot those with an regularity and you believe just because the Military uses it then it must be great. My statement stands...
Cobracutter Quote: "So next time, try to think a tad before posting bone headed dumb shit."
Nick Quote: "I think despite what you want everyone to believe you only really shoot those with an regularity and you believe just because the Military uses it then it must be great. My statement stands…"
I have to agree with Nick on his statement. It seems whenever CC gets opposing opinions that don't agree with his posts he always resorts to personal attacks. That's to bad. If he was more diplomatic with his rhetoric and less venomous, with all his experience which I take at face value I am sure Hide members would take him more seriously.
Nick Quote: "I think despite what you want everyone to believe you only really shoot those with an regularity and you believe just because the Military uses it then it must be great. My statement stands…"
I have to agree with Nick on his statement. It seems whenever CC gets opposing opinions that don't agree with his posts he always resorts to personal attacks. That's to bad. If he was more diplomatic with his rhetoric and less venomous, with all his experience which I take at face value I am sure Hide members would take him more seriously.
The brake (on a par with the pws) and excellent trigger out of the box make the pof an easy choice. Just saying.
