Suppressors Is this normal for a Suppressor?

[Jig Stick]

I took my rifles to get their barrels threaded yesterday. My buddy/gunsmith put the first barrel in the lathe, cut the threads, and then we screwed on my Thunderbeast 30p-1 to check run out….which was less than 5 thousandths…bore of the suppressor running dead nuts in the center on the suppressor.

Next we unscrewed the 30p-1 and installed a Silencerco Trifecta mount on the same barrel, and then screwed on a Specwar 7.62. The runout here was anywhere between 5-7 thousandths….but when looking at the bore of the Specwar, it is noticeably NOT in the center of the can. When we had it on the barrel and spun it in the lathe it looked like the entire can was wobbling because the hole was not centered. Is this normal?

 

[agbm]

Contact SilencerCo, that is not normal. We could guess all day long, what's wrong. I would not fire the Specwar, just incase of a baffle strike!!!!!

 

[Jig Stick]

Here are a few pictures. When on the lathe, the bore of the Specwar was 5 thousandths or better on runout, with the can on the host barrel, with the dial pin right on the muzzle of the Specwar. My gunsmith believes that the bore of the can is fine, and aligned properly with the barrel. His interpretation based on what he saw was that the actual body of the can is where the issue is. I don't know….

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[jasonfaz]

WOW! I have never seen a can that is off that noticeably. Definitely send that Specwar back to the factory!

 

[Jig Stick]

Mother Fucker! Im going to call Silencerco here in a few minutes to see what they say. How do I go about mailing this back to them? Do I have to ship it from a dealer and fill out a form 1? These are my first cans and I was praying that something like this wouldn't happen.

 

[koz]

No, you don't have to fill out a form 1 (that form is for you to manufacturer your own). You can send it back - I would suggest FedEx or UPS insured. I sent a Surefire back, no ATF forms, no dealer.. Silencerco will tell you what they require.

 

[wfjames22]

...I sent a Surefire back...

BLASPHEMY!!!!!!!!

Sorry, couldn't help myself. koz is correct, no forms needed and you can ship it yourself. When they are done, they will ship it directly back to you.

 

[dmtsc]

There is a picture of an AAC suppressor off like that, seems they Wire EDM so the threads/hole is straight not actually the body.

 

[Jig Stick]

I just got off the phone with Silencerco. They said that what I am describing is not out of the ordinary, and that it happens sometimes based on how they assemble the suppressors. They said that the bore of the suppressor is straight, baffles are inline, etc…and that on occasion it just happens to be slightly offset from the center axis of the suppressor housing. He said that I should have no problems shooting it, and that it should not influence POI or sound suppression performance. I also emailed them describing what I am seeing and included some pictures. I will post their response as soon as I get it. They also said if I want to send it back they will look at it and fix it free of charge if something is actually wrong with it.

 

[Goin'Hot]

My AAC 7.62 SD is off center worse than that. Never had a baffle strike. As long as the hole is in line with the barrel, rock on.

 

[SilentG21]

Maybe I'm not understanding something here, but am I reading that companies send a silencer out of the shop that does not have a centered hole in the endcap.....whiskey-tango-foxtrot? $#@&*. AGAIN.....glad as hell Surefire got my money and not some non center hole lining suppressor company. Guess you really do get what you pay for. Send it back dude...tell them you wish you bought a real suppressor. That's so messed up.

 

[Jig Stick]

Here is the response I got from Silencerco:

Silencerco

My name is XXXXXXXX. I just spoke with XXXXX from customer service (I think that was his name) regarding an issue I am having with a brand new Specwar 7.62 suppressor, serial number XXXXXXXX. I had my gunsmith thread my barrel for the Trifecta mount yesterday. With the barrel in the lathe, with the Trifecta mount on, and the Specwar 7.62 attached, spinning in the lathe we got runout on the bore of the can around 0.005. However, the bore does not appear to be running down the center axis of the suppressor. The bore appears to be slightly offset from center. XXXXX informed me that this happens sometimes due to how the suppressors are made, and that it should not affect performance. Can you please look at the attached pictures and let me know if what I am describing falls within your quality control specs and that I am good to go using the suppressor? I can send more pictures if needed. It is noticeable to the naked eye. Thank you.

Here was the response:

Thank you for getting those pictures sent so quickly. Based off our discussion on the phone, followed by your photo’s; I do feel that you have nothing to worry about! I suggest that you mount the Specwar up, and hit the range. However, if you ever find your self experiencing any issues, please don’t hesitate to let me know.

Thank you, have a great day,
XXXXXXX

 

[jasonfaz]

Here is the response I got from Silencerco:

Silencerco

My name is XXXXXXXX. I just spoke with XXXXX from customer service (I think that was his name) regarding an issue I am having with a brand new Specwar 7.62 suppressor, serial number XXXXXXXX. I had my gunsmith thread my barrel for the Trifecta mount yesterday. With the barrel in the lathe, with the Trifecta mount on, and the Specwar 7.62 attached, spinning in the lathe we got runout on the bore of the can around 0.005. However, the bore does not appear to be running down the center axis of the suppressor. The bore appears to be slightly offset from center. XXXXX informed me that this happens sometimes due to how the suppressors are made, and that it should not affect performance. Can you please look at the attached pictures and let me know if what I am describing falls within your quality control specs and that I am good to go using the suppressor? I can send more pictures if needed. It is noticeable to the naked eye. Thank you.

Here was the response:

Thank you for getting those pictures sent so quickly. Based off our discussion on the phone, followed by your photo’s; I do feel that you have nothing to worry about! I suggest that you mount the Specwar up, and hit the range. However, if you ever find your self experiencing any issues, please don’t hesitate to let me know.

Thank you, have a great day,
XXXXXXX

WHAT THE FUCK?!! I can't believe that was their response. It's almost like they want to see a legit end cap and/or baffle strike before they'll even take the time to look it over. I would think they'd certainly want to do that for liability reasons if nothing else. What's crazy to me is that in the pic with the can on the table the end cap looks crazy off center. But in the pic when your holding it up it actually appears that the baffle stack DOES line up with the end cap hole. This would imply the entire baffle stack and end cap are not going to be concentric to the bore of your rifle.

Shit dude, I feel bad for you!! Let us know if you end up taking it out and putting anything through that thing. Fucking crazy man...

 

[myownman]

I'm probably wrong, but a suppressor doesn't seem to complicated. If I was charging people $600.00-$900.00, the damn thing better be straight.

 

[jasonfaz]

Jig,
Do you have anything like a boring bar, dowel rods, or even a set of extended drill bits that you can at least slide through your can and get an idea of concentricity between the baffle stack and end cap? That might help give you an idea of whether the can itself is fucked or if it's just an end cap issue. For some reason that end cap also looks like it's drilled really large for a 30 cal can. If so, maybe they've bored out their cans a little extra and that's why they're not all that concerned.

If you want to test her out, here's my .30 cal can with a 23/64 metal dowel rod through it. It lines up perfectly with about 1mm play on both the end cap side and the blast baffle end. A 3/8 rod won't fit...

 

[jasonfaz]

I'm probably wrong, but a suppressor doesn't seem to complicated. If I was charging people $600.00-$900.00, the damn thing better be straight.

Exactly! After stamp your over a grand into it not to mention waiting around for a god damn year only to take possession of a fucking paperweight. The more I think about it the more infuriated I get and it's not even my can. I feel the pain though, can't imagine how pissed I'd be if I was in Jig's shoes. FML...

 

[SilentG21]

yeah man very sorry about your luck, worst comes to worst you can screw the silencer on just a barrel and use it as a bat or club. Sounds like silencerco has a guy using that new CNC machine. ..."Certainly Not Concentric" machine.

 

[Buckeye308]

WHAT THE FUCK?!! I can't believe that was their response. It's almost like they want to see a legit end cap and/or baffle strike before they'll even take the time to look it over. I would think they'd certainly want to do that for liability reasons if nothing else. What's crazy to me is that in the pic with the can on the table the end cap looks crazy off center. But in the pic when your holding it up it actually appears that the baffle stack DOES line up with the end cap hole. This would imply the entire baffle stack and end cap are not going to be concentric to the bore of your rifle.

Shit dude, I feel bad for you!! Let us know if you end up taking it out and putting anything through that thing. Fucking crazy man...

The can is not messed up, it will not have a baffle strike. The hole in the end is the last thing that they do, that way the bore is centered with the mounting system. Think of it this way, all good gunsmiths will thread a barrel based on the center line of the bore not the outside of the barrel, the Specwar has the end cap cut to the center of the bore also. They do this so when it is attached to the rifle it will be lined up with the center of the bore.

 

[SilentG21]

I see it in a more simpler way...........
THE FUCKING SILENCER SHOULD HAVE THE HOLE IN THE CENTER!. Plain and simple. Don't sell me a silencer that is crooked with a hole concentric to bore. WTF? The pictures of that silencer show poor craftsmanship. And then customer service says it is concentric and shoot on? Again.....WTF? So what if there is no baffle strike and its a clean pass. That thing is not perfectly straight on the barrel. Gunna be noticeable to the eye. I am upset for you man.

 

[Buckeye308]

I see it in a more simpler way...........
THE FUCKING SILENCER SHOULD HAVE THE HOLE IN THE CENTER!. Plain and simple. Don't sell me a silencer that is crooked with a hole concentric to bore. WTF? The pictures of that silencer show poor craftsmanship. And then customer service says it is concentric and shoot on? Again.....WTF?

There is nothing wrong with the suppressor, the customer service said nothing is wrong with the suppressor but if it bothers the Op he can send it back and they can look it over, if he does send it in they will have it no more than a couple of days.

To the Op go out and shoot it, enjoy it.

 

[RonA]

Sigh....

 

[Jig Stick]

The can is not messed up, it will not have a baffle strike. The hole in the end is the last thing that they do, that way the bore is centered with the mounting system. Think of it this way, all good gunsmiths will thread a barrel based on the center line of the bore not the outside of the barrel, the Specwar has the end cap cut to the center of the bore also. They do this so when it is attached to the rifle it will be lined up with the center of the bore.

This is exactly what I was told on the phone by Silencerco. And it is also what my gunsmith told me. My gunsmith said that the internals / bore of the suppressor have a runout of 0.005 in relation to the center of the barrel that it is attached to. when the suppressor was spinning in the lathe, the hole/bore did not wobble when looking at it from the front…it appeared that the body of the suppressor was wobbling, indicating that the bore of the suppressor just wasn't dead nuts in the center of the can. I don't know WTF to do. Silencerco is saying to shoot it, and now I have it documented from them that it is GTG if something would happen. But I certainly don't want to fuck myself, my gun, or anyone around me if the can blows up.

would it help me at all if I pulled the bolt from the gun, put my bore guide in, and pass my 30cal dewey cleaning rod through the barrel and the suppressor to see if it clears? Would that tell me anything?

BTW, the Thunderbeast 30P-1 was dead nuts centered

 

[Buckeye308]

This is exactly what I was told on the phone by Silencerco. And it is also what my gunsmith told me. My gunsmith said that the internals / bore of the suppressor have a runout of 0.005 in relation to the center of the barrel that it is attached to. when the suppressor was spinning in the lathe, the hole/bore did not wobble when looking at it from the front…it appeared that the body of the suppressor was wobbling, indicating that the bore of the suppressor just wasn't dead nuts in the center of the can. I don't know WTF to do. Silencerco is saying to shoot it, and now I have it documented from them that it is GTG if something would happen. But I certainly don't want to fuck myself, my gun, or anyone around me if the can blows up.

would it help me at all if I pulled the bolt from the gun, put my bore guide in, and pass my 30cal dewey cleaning rod through the barrel and the suppressor to see if it clears? Would that tell me anything?

BTW, the Thunderbeast 30P-1 was dead nuts centered

The Specwar has a lifetime warranty you have nothing to worry about. Your gunsmith has already checked the run out, just enjoy it.

 

[jasonfaz]

This is exactly what I was told on the phone by Silencerco. And it is also what my gunsmith told me. My gunsmith said that the internals / bore of the suppressor have a runout of 0.005 in relation to the center of the barrel that it is attached to. when the suppressor was spinning in the lathe, the hole/bore did not wobble when looking at it from the front…it appeared that the body of the suppressor was wobbling, indicating that the bore of the suppressor just wasn't dead nuts in the center of the can. I don't know WTF to do. Silencerco is saying to shoot it, and now I have it documented from them that it is GTG if something would happen. But I certainly don't want to fuck myself, my gun, or anyone around me if the can blows up.

would it help me at all if I pulled the bolt from the gun, put my bore guide in, and pass my 30cal dewey cleaning rod through the barrel and the suppressor to see if it clears? Would that tell me anything?

BTW, the Thunderbeast 30P-1 was dead nuts centered

I would feel exactly the same way. I'd want to do something to at least verify concentricity. The can may have a lifetime warranty, fucking wonderful. If it takes a hard hit and injures you or someone else are they going to cover that too? The way some people ignore attention to detail that could end up causing serious damage is amazing sometimes. Does Buckeye give two fucks if you get a peice of outer tube implanted in your forehead? Clearly no.....because the can has a lifetime warranty. WTF?

If your going to try and test bore to baffle stack to end cap alignment you'd have to use something that won't flex and is measureable for dimensional variance.

 

[jasonfaz]

More importantly, does Silencerco suggest that when people buy their cans they should do so with the expectation that shit may just be a little off and deal with it because it'll all be good to go no matter what? I'd like to hear Zak's opinion with respect to how he would have responded if the same issue came to light with a TBAC can. Clearly, there's been countless posts in which he has offered a definitive reason as to why things may not be like they should and offered guidance and suggestions in how to effectively deal with the issue. Hell, if it were me I would send it to Silenerco and make them shoot it first...

 

[Buckeye308]

I would feel exactly the same way. I'd want to do something to at least verify concentricity. The can may have a lifetime warranty, fucking wonderful. If it takes a hard hit and injures you or someone else are they going to cover that too? The way some people ignore attention to detail that could end up causing serious damage is amazing sometimes. Does Buckeye give two fucks if you get a peice of outer tube implanted in your forehead? Clearly no.....because the can has a lifetime warranty. WTF?

If your going to try and test bore to baffle stack to end cap alignment you'd have to use something that won't flex and is measureable for dimensional variance.

I told him to go shoot it because his gunsmith has already checked the suppressor, if he had not already had a gunsmith check it I would say get a 30 cal rod and check once its on the rifle but like I said in a earlier post he can send it back to Silencerco and have them check it over before he does anything. Thats why I said it has a lifetime warranty, not because I dont care what happens to the op.

I handle hundreds of suppressors, I have handled dozens of Specwars and they all look just a little off, some are like the op and some are almost perfect, I am not just armchair comando that is repeating shit I read on the Internet. I am repeating what Henry told me when I asked him about this very issue. Believe me if you want I don't care,but I am not going to say anything that could get someone hurt.

To the op if you want Silencerco to look over the suppressor before you shoot it, send me a pm with your email and I will put you in touch with someone at Silencerco that will help you out.

 

[biffj]

Is it more important to have an item that works or one that looks cool? Ask yourself that question and if you're in the group who thinks looks are more important than send it back and request a refund then buy some can that looks great and doesn't do anything. It makes no difference where the hole in the end is from the standpoint of operation. It doesn't affect accuracy or any more risk of damage and baffle strikes. Look at the Osprey and a whole host of other cans with the hole way way off center. All work great, no baffle strikes and accuracy is great. So the truth is that the Silencerco is telling you the facts and you're upset because it looks bad, not because it doesn't work. With a lot of other users out there the cans are popular and well liked so what is the real problem? If you get the performance you paid for then you should be fine and happy. If you made suppressors for a living and knew how they were done you'd be amazed that any of the manufacturers can get them as close as they do.

Good luck and hope your issue is solved to your satisfaction.

Frank

 

[gasdoc09]

Jesus Christ, it's a tool, not a fashion accessory. Who cares if the hole looks off to the eye, as long as it's in line with the bore. Silencerco weighed in and said it's safe. Shoot the damn thing already. If you get a strike or POI shifts a ridiculous amount, Silencerco will make it right.

 

[Jig Stick]

I could care less how it looks. Im never going to be looking at the muzzle of it anyway when its on the gun lol. I just trying to make sure its safe to shoot, and get a consensus if this is something that is not out of the ordinary. Im going to mount up the can to my rifle right now, put my bore guide in, and pass a rod through it to see if it hits anything on the way through the can. Im looking for a metal dowel rod like the one posted above but Im not sure where I can get one

 

[wfjames22]

Suppressor Alignment Rods - Accessories

 

[jasonfaz]

I could care less how it looks. Im never going to be looking at the muzzle of it anyway when its on the gun lol. I just trying to make sure its safe to shoot, and get a consensus if this is something that is not out of the ordinary. Im going to mount up the can to my rifle right now, put my bore guide in, and pass a rod through it to see if it hits anything on the way through the can. Im looking for a metal dowel rod like the one posted above but Im not sure where I can get one

That is a good call my man! Better safe than sorry...

 

[navyflyer72]

So you have these things going for you:
1. Documented email from manufacturer saying good to go shoot
2. Verbal from your gunsmith that it's aligned to the bore
3. Lots of responses here both ways

My $.02, go shoot it and see how you like it. I agree that the craftsmanship is lacking, but if it shoots straight and quiet, then it's doing what this tool should do.

If you're still concerned how it will shoot, bring a friend (that you don't like so much) and have them shoot it first (kidding).

No matter what you do, keep us appraised, I'd like to hear how this turns out.

Cheers,
George

 

[Eben]

I think it's interesting how some people interpret what they are seeing as to being a defect, when in fact it's an indicator of it being very closely aligned to the bore of the rifle it will sit on.
This has been verified by the measurements of the machinist.

My first rifle suppressor, built towards the end of the last century, was perfect visually in that the hole in the forward end was exactly centered.
However, the bore relative to the bore of the rifle was probably off compared to this particular Specwar, as it didn't have the advantage of the final pass of the wire EDM after the stack and body were welded together.
Instead it was assembled as carefully as possible with the technology at the time, and the size of the bore was probably larger compared to the Specwar's to make up for that.

So does one want something that appears to be aligned, with a larger bore than is necessary, as opposed to one that is better aligned but looks a little off?
I would choose the latter, and for such a long suppressor such as the Specwar, it's not cosmetically off by much.

An alternative design that would shut everyone up is to make the hole in just the end cap large enough to cover the largest variance, although that would reduce the suppression level slightly.

 

[Zak Smith]

I'd like to hear Zak's opinion with respect to how he would have responded if the same issue came to light with a TBAC can.

It wouldn't really be possible due to how we manufacture them. I'd be happy to go into more detail in private or in another thread.

 

[ZombieMonkey]

Like numerous other have said, shoot on. It's been verified to be concentric by a machinist and Silencerco will back their product should you have some sort of issue (which I would highly doubt). If you look at enough of the true QD style suppressors you tend to see a whole lot more of this than you do with direct thread ons or mounts like TBAC's BA mounts.


Only mentioning TBAC by name because some asshat would have likely brought up the BA as an example of a QD that is dead on, which they are in my experience. But if you look at the way that specific can is machined, there's no way for that to be possible just as Zak says. However the way a lot of other QD cans are made it becomes very possible. I am not a machinist, but own and handle a lot of cans. From my experience if you haven't seen it you just have not looked at enough cans. The only time I would be concerned would be if the two holes themselves were not concentric.

[MENTION=89359]SilentG21[/MENTION], I have to love how you feel the need to always waive the Surefire flag loud and proud in every thread. It's cute that you are a Surefire fan boy, hope they are paying you as almost every thread about suppressors you post into you always waive their flag and then make the comment that "you get what you pay for." Funny thing is that I've only seen one manufacturer thats QD's seem to be immune from this and I've already mentioned them by name... psst, it's not Surefire But hey, if you understood how your cans and others were actually machined you'd understand why theirs do not exhibit this while others do. I haven't had my hands on every can, but I've had them all over any of the commonly named makers here with one exception, SAS with which I have no experience.

 

[Jig Stick]

Well tomorrow is the day. I am taking my 300 winmag to range to shoot. I will using the TBAC 30P-1 half the day, and the Specwar 7.62 the other half. I want to compare the performance between the two, even though the Specwar will mostly be used on my semi auto rifles. I will report back and let everyone know how it goes. If you don't hear from me, the Specwar exploded and tore my face off

 

[jasonfaz]

Well tomorrow is the day. I am taking my 300 winmag to range to shoot. I will using the TBAC 30P-1 half the day, and the Specwar 7.62 the other half. I want to compare the performance between the two, even though the Specwar will mostly be used on my semi auto rifles. I will report back and let everyone know how it goes. If you don't hear from me, the Specwar exploded and tore my face off

Haha! Good luck brother. Look forward to hearing the range report!

 

[LanceS4803]

I'd be interested in hearing a comparison between the two. (As I was for my TBAC BA to be released from BATF prison.)

As far as the original issue, yeah it would bug me too, but trust your gunsmith. Throw a cover on it and it will conceal the cosmetic defect.

 

[Buckeye308]

Well tomorrow is the day. I am taking my 300 winmag to range to shoot. I will using the TBAC 30P-1 half the day, and the Specwar 7.62 the other half. I want to compare the performance between the two, even though the Specwar will mostly be used on my semi auto rifles. I will report back and let everyone know how it goes. If you don't hear from me, the Specwar exploded and tore my face off

Have a good time, I think you will be surprised how well the Specwar does.

 

[evilcoon]

I don't know shit about suppressors other than owning 5 and understanding there will be a poi shift. Now that it being off center like that, won't it really shift since the gases are not being equally distributed?

 

[Jig Stick]

Just got back from the range. As expected, the Thunderbeast 30P-1 was fantastic. There was a POI shift, but it was slight. I didn't even adjust my turret for it. Gun grouped as expected.

On to the Specwar7.62. POI shift at 100yds was substantial. Almost a full mil low with the suppressor on. I corrected for that and re-zeroed the scope. Group size was good, but not quite as tight as with the Thunderbeast. It was windy as fuck though, so it could have been me. Sound suppression was very comparable between the two. The "loudness" seemed very similar between them…but the "tone" was different. Im happy with how they both suppressed. The degree of POI shift with the Specwar was unexpected, and Im not too happy about it. But it is a QA style….and I bought it for my semi-auto rifles anyway, but I was really wanting it to hold POI better. Maybe this degree of POI shift is normal with this type of setup?

But hey, the Specwar didn't blow up….no baffle strikes…sound suppression was great…grouped good. So Silencerco's and my gunsmiths advice was spot on, and I am happy with that.

Don't take my grouping comparison to heart. I was doing a little bit of load development. I switched from a 140g Amax to a 140g Nosler Custom Competition in my 6.5x47. Identical seating depths. Identical powder charges. So I was comparing my zero w/o the Specwar using the 140Amax to my new zero WITH the Specwar, but using the 140 Nosler. I will try to do a little better comparison in a few days. The Noslers shot great. So at the next range session I will take the Specwar off, shoot a zero with them. Then put the suppressor on, and see if the POI shift is as bad

 

[jasonfaz]

Phew! Good to hear man. It'll be interesting to hear how the Specwar does on a semi auto platform as well. Keep us updated on the POI shift too. Very curious to see if that issue improves and what factors may contribute to it.