Rifle Scopes It's about time Burris gets in the game! UPDATED 1-8-14

[rayrevolver]

The link to the 5.56 Gen 3 Reticle was broken, but I found it below. It says "DFP" for the reticle and it reads like a FFP for the cross hairs and SFP for the illuminated horseshoe... But the pictures match neither description. Pics show a straight up SFP.

XTR II Ballistic 5.56 Gen 3 reticle - rifle scopes, handgun scopes, hunting scopes by Burris Optics

 

[Quickdraw40]

All FFP Gen 2 mil dot except for the 1.33-8 which is the dual FP you described above.

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[Quickdraw40]

Alright, I just talked to the Burris rep and he told me "we learned from the the Steiner scopes and have a very solid mechanical system and an advanced optical system." The real world pricing on the 5x25 will be in the $1200 to $1300, and the 3-15 will be around $1,000. I was mistaken, the prototypes were made here, but the production runs will come from overseas, sorry for the confusion.

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[scatsob]

Where overseas? Japan?

 

[Captramrod01]

Tag, want to know where they are made.

 

[jeffersonv]

Those jerks got a lot of audacity bringing in a scope to compete with my current favorites at that price range. I"LL PASS!

HA! Burris won't have jeffersonv to offer more options to. That'll show 'em.

Since I'm on SH I guess I should ask what colors they will come in?

 

[precision308]

I have a cheap mtac 3.5-10 and for the money spent it is the best I've seen in a burris. If these new burris scopes track well and hold up that would be great. I would think the glass would be upgraded over their 400 dollar mtac line and if it was might not be a bad deal.

 

[redirt78]

1.3-8 with SFP illuminated circle and FFP reticle (mil based) sounds pretty good for the P308, 300BLK or 5.56 AR or 16-18" bolt gun

 

[The_FNG]

I say good on em. Bushnell has shown us they can make some awesome optics after making mediocre for so long, hopefully Burris will too.

 

[Bubb]

Mil rectical, moa turret clicks really?!?!?

 

[jhr1986]

Mil rectical, moa turret clicks really?!?!?

Incorrect, according to the specs on the site they all have matching turrets/reticles

 

[CSTactical]

We look forward to getting our hands on them.


Mike @ CSTACTICAL

 

[Bubb]

Incorrect, according to the specs on the site they all have matching turrets/reticles

Sorry, just looked again! Mil retical, moa elevation, and windage??? Unless they got it marked wrong on their web sit??? I can't post pics or I'd flame you right now? Go to the link on page one of this thread! Go to specs of the scopes is clear as a bell?.. Mil retical, moa turrets and windage??? Sorry?.. Hope to god I'm wrong???

 

[dodgefreak8]

I'm stoked about the 5-25x50! I was planning on the vortex viper pst but I have always been a huge Burris fan. Has everything I wanted. I run a 6-24 signature select scope on my STW and it's been a great scope. Really excited to compare them to the Vortex line!

 

[BoilerUP]

Click value: 1/10 mil

Yeah, they listed the elevation & windage adjustment in MOA instead of MIL...big whoop

 

[Quickdraw40]

Mil turrets/Mil reticle, except for the F-class scope.

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[Bubb]

Thanks boiler. Either I'm wrong or they are?.. Which is it?... I love the look of that 2x10x42. Not crazy about the retical, but I like to dial so I can live with it. Plus it doesn't weigh a ton.

 

[19Scout77]

Sorry, just looked again! Mil retical, moa elevation, and windage??? Unless they got it marked wrong on their web sit??? I can't post pics or I'd flame you right now? Go to the link on page one of this thread! Go to specs of the scopes is clear as a bell?.. Mil retical, moa turrets and windage??? Sorry?.. Hope to god I'm wrong???

Your reading.comprehension SUCKS! Even the one MOA scope has a matching MOA reticle. The remainder...mil/mil.

 

[Bubb]

Side step.... It just sank in.... Flmao your right!! I was stuck on the elevation adjustment. That's just total movement in moa! Yea it sAme.. Mil/mil :/ one freaked glass of wine.... Lol

 

[Bubb]

Your reading.comprehension SUCKS! Even the one MOA scope has a matching MOA reticle. The remainder...mil/mil.

) you got me.... I was too quick to drawl. I wasn't letting it sink in......

 

[The_FNG]

We look forward to getting our hands on them.


Mike @ CSTACTICAL

Bring your YouTube account back from the dead

 

[1slow01z71]

So a 900ish street price for the 1.5-8? Think Id rather put a couple hundred more with it and pick up a 2.5-10 nightforce.

 

[Quickdraw40]

The Burris has a SFP daylight bright donut and a FFP BDC, I'll take that over a NF any day. Give it a chance.

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[1slow01z71]

Well the other killer for me is the BDC reticle. Its hard to take any company serious that puts a BDC reticle like that in their top tier scope and be the only option. So many scope companies kill otherwise really nice scopes by using those stupid ass reticles. The don't even work that well for 556 to begin with, what if you want to use it on another rifle?

 

[Quickdraw40]

The 1.5 to 8 is a close to medium range carbine scope, not a long range precision rifle scope. For man size or 2 MOA+ size targets, it is ideal.

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[1slow01z71]

For those of us who actually use our scopes BDC reticles are useless. I run multiple loads in my 300blk, same thing for people with 223, and when I build my 6.8SPC as well. I just don't understand the point of a BDC reticle as its only good for one load when you could give us a regular subtension reticle that can used with anything. Look at how many people are happy vortex has finally dropped the JBM reticle on their 1-6 as the only option, anybody who uses these scopes which are tactical type people for which these scopes are marketed for, I don't know of anyone who likes the BDC gimmick so it confuses me why companies perpetuate this early 2000s wizbang technology. Look how popular the SWFA 1-6 is, great reticle, good glass, and great price for the features. That is a direct competitor to the 1.5-8, burris has a tough road to hoe if theyre going to take market share. The reticle is definitely a big minus for this scope IMO. If the glass truly is as good of quality as youre saying it is then its unfortunate its saddled with a useless reticle as it would've been great on my 6.8 build but it looks like Im stuck with a SWFA 1-6 or vortex 2.5-10 unless I spring for the nightforce compact 2.5-10x32.

 

[Quickdraw40]

You're right, I don't have many rounds through scopes....

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[1slow01z71]

It wasn't a personal jab at you but if you want to get your panties in a wad go for it. The people on this site aren't the typical tacticool AR15.com tards that like the newest sweet gadgetry that doesnt work. The BDC reticle is useless and when most companies are finally moving away from them burris wants to jump in feet first into the tactical fold and hamstrings an otherwise nice looking scope(if the glass is up to par) with a dumb reticle. Don't know if you read the forums or not but people use 8x scopes to shoot on out there. With 223 alone the difference between 55gr and 77gr is enough to make that BDC holds useless, nevermind if you wanted to use it on a lightweight hunting gun, or a 300BLK, all of which could benefit from this scope's power range and glass but don't even come close to 223 ballistics.

 

[Quickdraw40]

Then stick to your SWFA...

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[1slow01z71]

Can you explain the corporate thinking behind using a BDC reticle? Hell even the 3 gun guys don't use BDC reticles which according to you seems like the exact people this scope would be intended for. The only exception to that is the guys running the 1-6 razor but that's only because the JBM reticle is the only one available in a nice scope but vortex has listened and will be offering a regular subtended reticle this year.

 

[Quickdraw40]

BDC reticles are ideal for 3-gun (in my, humble.... opinion). I think, on a 300 yard target, it is much quicker to hold on the 300 yard post than 2.x mils. If you want a straight MIL reticle, the 2-10 might better fit your needs, it is FFP vs. the SFP Nightforce.

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[1slow01z71]

Fair enough, so the guys manufacturing the scope prefer the BDC. Like anything else its all about personal preference. Just seemed odd to me that most manufacturers are moving away from the BDC or phasing them out of their existing lines while yall create a whole new line and incorporate a technology most are moving away from at this price level. I don't need to see how long your wiener is to believe you, you work for a major scope manufacturer, of course you get more range time than most. I don't care, Im at the range weekly but Ive got a day job that isn't in the shooting industry so Im not cool like you. I just find it comical burris is diving in head first into the tactical game with old technology.

 

[Quickdraw40]

Just for the record, I don't work for Burris or Steiner, I have a regular job also. I am sponsored by Steiner, I'm friends with the Steiner/Burris sales reps, I know the VPs, I've met the engineers, production, customer service, and shipping guys/gals. I believe in what they are doing. I'm lucky enough to get to play with prototypes, and I know it's a good product, but it's impossible to make everyone happy.

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[Temp9]

I'd love to get a 4-20x in hand. If this has a real zero stop (ie. dead stop on ZERO, as opposed to the PST line), I can see this taking sales away from Vortex. Vortex, however, will have a big upper hand on reticles, especially with the new EBR-2C reticles coming to the PST line. The G2B mil-dot is poorly thought out for such a simple reticle, in my opinion. The half mil lines draw more attention than the full value dots. It should be the other way around, where the full values (1, 2, 3, etc) pull attention, while the half values (.5, 1.5, 2.5, etc) are less noticeable. Reference the Weaver EMDR reticle for something similar, but properly executed. Again, just my opinion, but I'd rather have a plain mil-dot.

Depending on the final street price, I'd still love to try it out. Everything else about it looks very promising.

 

[fdkay]

I guessing Philippine construction.
If that's the case, I'll pass.

 

[19Scout77]

I guessing Philippine construction.
If that's the case, I'll pass.

And why would that sway you? Other than a general idea regarding the location and stories of barmaids in manila shooting ping pong balls from their twats, what do you actually know about the Phillipines and their manufacturing capabilities?

For example, are you aware that the Phillipines principal export is its people due to their extraordinary work ethic and relevant education i.e.the healthcare and maritime industries?

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I'm with fdkay... I've yet to have a phillipino scope that lasted. If somehow it is made in Japan then I will buy one but I doubt that judging by the price and the fact all the other burris scopes are made in the phillipines.

WTF is up with the turrets though? "Up to 8 mils per turn" for the multi turn and 9.3 on the single turn... whoever did that should be kicked in the nads.

 

[binnerscot]

They seem to be direct competition for the PSTs, but am curious to see how they stack up against the Weaver Tactical 3-15 EMDR, which is my preference for scopes in that price range. I wish Weaver would do an EMDR in their 4-20X power range.

 

[jerseymike]

And why would that sway you? Other than a general idea regarding the location and stories of barmaids in manila shooting ping pong balls from their twats, what do you actually know about the Phillipines and their manufacturing capabilities?

For example, are you aware that the Phillipines principal export is its people due to their extraordinary work ethic and relevant education i.e.the healthcare and maritime industries?

I think you've got that mixed up with thailand. Oh wait, they'd be shooting ping pong balls from their assholes since they're mostly lady boys.

 

[Dustoff82]

[Q

I may be wrong, but it seems obvious that you don't do 3-Gun. I on the other hand do, and I can tell you from MY experience that a majority of the people I compete with do. BDC scope actually work, believe it or not. It may be calibrated for a particular round and that's fine, I'll use that round. Furthermore you generally don't have time to dial in this sport. Its about hitting a target a bunch of times as fast and accurately as possible.




UOTE=1slow01z71;2880091]Can you explain the corporate thinking behind using a BDC reticle? Hell even the 3 gun guys don't use BDC reticles which according to you seems like the exact people this scope would be intended for. The only exception to that is the guys running the 1-6 razor but that's only because the JBM reticle is the only one available in a nice scope but vortex has listened and will be offering a regular subtended reticle this year.[/QUOTE]

 

[fdkay]

And why would that sway you? Other than a general idea regarding the location and stories of barmaids in manila shooting ping pong balls from their twats, what do you actually know about the Phillipines and their manufacturing capabilities?

For example, are you aware that the Phillipines principal export is its people due to their extraordinary work ethic and relevant education i.e.the healthcare and maritime industries?

I don't know, maybe it's because I lived the for five and a half fucking years (and I loved it there). I have nothing against the Philippines or their people, if I did, I probably wouldn't have been married to a Filipina for the past thirty fucking years.
Unlike many folks, I take an objective view, historically Philippine made optics are unreliable. It is just the was it is, as the Sightron S-Tac scope that I had to send back after one trip to the range. It failed a tracking test.

One only has to look online for "refurbished" Nikons, Burris, Pentax etc..., these are all Philippine made scopes that had to be reworked because they FAILED.

It's principal export is their people because it is a third world country and they can't make enough at home to support their families. Much like the millions of Pakistanis that work in the middle east.
Yes, there are MANY Filipino DOCTORS that come to the US to work as RN's, of course they can't work as doctors, primarily because their education is not up to standards.
I can get an engineering degree in Manila without ever stepping foot in the classroom or even in the country and no internet course required. Money talks.

 

[scudzuki]

I don't know, maybe it's because I lived the for five and a half fucking years (and I loved it there). I have nothing against the Philippines or their people, if I did, I probably wouldn't have been married to a Filipina for the past thirty fucking years.
Unlike many folks, I take an objective view, historically Philippine made optics are unreliable. It is just the was it is, as the Sightron S-Tac scope that I had to send back after one trip to the range. It failed a tracking test.

One only has to look online for "refurbished" Nikons, Burris, Pentax etc..., these are all Philippine made scopes that had to be reworked because they FAILED.

It's principal export is their people because it is a third world country and they can't make enough at home to support their families. Much like the millions of Pakistanis that work in the middle east.
Yes, there are MANY Filipino DOCTORS that come to the US to work as RN's, of course they can't work as doctors, primarily because their education is not up to standards.
I can get an engineering degree in Manila without ever stepping foot in the classroom or even in the country and no internet course required. Money talks.

Uh huh.
Chinese products are generally regarded as crap, yet millions of boneheads wait in line for the day zero release of every new iteration of the iPhone. The iPhone (as well as many other products assembled in China, including probably every component in the computer you're using to access SH) do not suffer from poor construction or quality control. It is entirely possible to train any motivated workforce to meet established standards. Do Schott glass and properly manufactured aluminum scope bodies suddenly lose the properties that make them ideal for their intended functions just because they are transported across a country's border?

Joe

 

[jbell]

I see this as a good thing for our sport. It is one more option for a potentially good product that offers a lot at a good price point. These may be the next best thing or the next Counter Sniper, no one can say until the dust settles. So maybe we should look at it with an open mind and take it for what it is, one more option. I for one am glad to see it because I remember the not too distant past when all we had to choose from were hunting scopes, a MK4 SFP mil dot with MOA turrets, or spend a crap load of money for a scope that was well thought out...

 

[redirt78]

I've had an XTR and it was not a POS so unless they took a big jump back by upgrading the turrets/internals with Steiners help... It definitely won't be the next Counter Sniper. They do need more/better reticle options, the XTR I had was a BDC below the horizontal line with mildots above, left and right with MOA turrets... Kinda fubar but the tracking was decent and glass was good and I made do with the reticle with Streloks help. The turrets were 12" tall though. These have potential, hopefully it's a big step in the right direction, maybe sometime soon they will take another leap with new reticles.

 

[jeffersonv]

So, it doesn't matter the materials, design/construction, manufacturing company, QC standards in said company, etc., you can tell all of us sight unseen and as a certainty , because you lived there 5.5 years back in the day, that there are currently no companies in that whole country capable of producing a decent scope.

This is the same guy never missed a chance to campaign against Vortex for years and still does I'm pretty sure.

I think I would rather value the opinion of Quickdraw40, who's actually seen one.

 

[fdkay]

So, it doesn't matter the materials, design/construction, manufacturing company, QC standards in said company, etc., you can tell all of us sight unseen and as a certainty , because you lived there 5.5 years back in the day, that there are currently no companies in that whole country capable of producing a decent scope.

This is the same guy never missed a chance to campaign against Vortex for years and still does I'm pretty sure.

I think I would rather value the opinion of Q
Quickdraw40, who's actually seen one.

So, you are intimately familiar with the culture of the Philippines then?

So, he has seen one. Did he do a tracking test?
Did he mount it on a rifle and check eyebox?
Did he verify function on the parallax adjustment.

No, there are no good scopes made in the Philippines.

I had a Philippine made scope from a very reputable manufacturer that had to go back after one range trip. The one in which it failed a simple tracking test, and this from a company that is reknown for the tracking of their scopes.
The scope appeared very well made, but it was not you can't tell jack shit about a scope by looking at it.

Does nightforce have their scopes made in the Philippines?
How about Steiner?
How about S&B?
Does Bushnell have their top end scopes made in the Philippines?

The answer to all of those questions is no.

 

[Tikka260]

So, you are intimately familiar with the culture of the Philippines then?

So, he has seen one. Did he do a tracking test?
Did he mount it on a rifle and check eyebox?
Did he verify function on the parallax adjustment.

No, there are no good scopes made in the Philippines.

I had a Philippine made scope from a very reputable manufacturer that had to go back after one range trip. The one in which it failed a simple tracking test, and this from a company that is reknown for the tracking of their scopes.
The scope appeared very well made, but it was not you can't tell jack shit about a scope by looking at it.

Does nightforce have their scopes made in the Philippines?
How about Steiner?
How about S&B?
Does Bushnell have their top end scopes made in the Philippines?

The answer to all of those questions is no.

You're likely writing about that stac. This abortion also looks like a nf rip-off. Can't these monkeys come up.with something.original on their own? Unless overseas means Japan, this company can also shove their over-priced, tacti-junk up their asses! It's about time Burris gets in the game?...lol.

 

[Wildboarem]

So, you are intimately familiar with the culture of the Philippines then?

So, he has seen one. Did he do a tracking test?
Did he mount it on a rifle and check eyebox?
Did he verify function on the parallax adjustment.

No, there are no good scopes made in the Philippines.

I had a Philippine made scope from a very reputable manufacturer that had to go back after one range trip. The one in which it failed a simple tracking test, and this from a company that is reknown for the tracking of their scopes.
The scope appeared very well made, but it was not you can't tell jack shit about a scope by looking at it.

Does nightforce have their scopes made in the Philippines?
How about Steiner?
How about S&B?
Does Bushnell have their top end scopes made in the Philippines?

The answer to all of those questions is no.

So because you owned a scope that had to get warrantied, everything manufactured in that country is crap? S&B, NF, Premier haven't ever had scopes that didn't track right or have some other quality control issue?
Burris actually manufacturers and assembles its higher end scopes in Greeley, CO. I know because I toured the facility. From billets through machining to final assembly handled right there. So why does everyone assume these are even made in the Philippines? Because there $200- 300 range scopes are made there?

I assume that those that have issues with Dbc reticles on low mag scopes ( -6x/8x) like to dial elevation for there 400 yd minute of man shots? And subtensions on a mil hash lines up with bullet drop?
Just asking!

 

[fdkay]

First, I want to apologize to the OP for derailing the thread.
That was not my intention.
If they made these scopes in the US or Japan, I would be thrilled.
There was only a mention that they would be sourced overseas. Burris has a facility in the PI and that would be the most logical choice.
This whole derailment started when I said I would pass on a Philippine made scope.
If you are putting the scope on a range rifle or a hunting rifle and you don't mind losing a shot because your scope crapped out on you, fine.

Philippine scopes are not fit for duty.

 

[dodgefreak8]

I've been on a lot of shooting forums and all of them have those that just wanna argue for the sake of an argument. Some of you need to eat a snickers because your diva is showing DAMN lol.

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