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Rifle Scopes It's about time Burris gets in the game! UPDATED 1-8-14
- Thread starter RWSGunsmithing
- Start date
I believe all of the current Predators come from Germany. Steiner USA will be releasing a new line of strictly US scopes later this year, including the Predator/hunting line. We had a team member buy a couple of the current ones for his hunting rifles and was very happy with them.
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Good god there is way too much butt hurt in here over some scopes that haven't even hit the market. I'm glad to see more options; lets wait to bash or praise them until they're actually in consumers' hands, all this speculation is silly.
For those of you going to SHOT, I would like to hear why they decided to go with 8 mil turrets.
For those of you going to SHOT, I would like to hear why they decided to go with 8 mil turrets.
I'd still go with Quickdraw40's opinion. At least he's see one.
You haven't.
Besides, you have no credibility with me from reading your posts over the years anyways.
Whatever. I just skip to someone who has something interesting to say.
These scopes could be a nice option. Or, they could become a nice option. I like the the possibilities.
My older 3-12 XTR is a great scope with really good glass, not as good as a nightforce but it was less than half the price of the nightforce too, I refuse to sell my XTR. With The Older XTR I have the clicks are positive and tracks very well It's a pretty good scope. At least as good as either of my Leupold Mark 4's. So fast forward 6 years or so and I'd say these scopes should be very well made. Post edited to remain neutral on where they will be manufactured.
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But if the folks at the Colorado Rifle Club put on a good match at their fine range facility near Byers, I'd make every effort to go out to shoot with them.
Maybe I should read the fine print about no politics....edited to comply.
Maybe I should read the fine print about no politics....edited to comply.
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I run a long range rifle match at CRC the fourth Saturday of every month.
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This thread is really getting off the original post. Take the politics is elsewhere.
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I read through the instructions and it appears the Zero stop may actually be a STOP.. Seems easy to set as well. I really gotta get my hands on this thing. I would really like to see an in depth review video from SHOT.
A bit of new info on these.
They are made in the Phillipines.
Possible street pricing look to be
2-10 $925
3-15 $1150
4-20 $1250
5-25 $1350
8-40 $1350
1-5 $925
1.5-8 $1150
This is all rough pricing so it might higher it might be lower depending on the retailer and availability.
I'm gonna get some coming in. So I hope to do better than those pricing.
So if your interested in something specific please email me at [email protected] and let me know what you would like to see. This way I can make sure I get plenty of that specific model.
They are made in the Phillipines.
Possible street pricing look to be
2-10 $925
3-15 $1150
4-20 $1250
5-25 $1350
8-40 $1350
1-5 $925
1.5-8 $1150
This is all rough pricing so it might higher it might be lower depending on the retailer and availability.
I'm gonna get some coming in. So I hope to do better than those pricing.
So if your interested in something specific please email me at [email protected] and let me know what you would like to see. This way I can make sure I get plenty of that specific model.
Burris continues to play in the low tier market. This new line of scopes may find acceptance in the gun game market.
I think that we should probably all wait and see what it is they really have to offer, and then judge the actual offering. Of course, what fun would that be?
I wouldn't assume that Burris would produce a scope in the higher end than this product offering. Since they are owned by the same parent company as Steiner, I wouldn't think they would have competing product lines. They tier up in quality is where Steiner competes. There was a whole in the product lines and these scopes
Will fill that. I wish they were priced a little more competitively with the vortex pst though.
These scopes look very nice. However, I have a very hard time spending $600-800 for Philippines-made Vortex Viper PST scopes, even with the Vortex warranty. I'm having a harder time seeing myself spending $1200+ for Philippines-made "new XTR" scopes when similar money gets me a made-in-Japan Bushnell Elite Tactical, SWFA SS-HD or Sightron SIII, or some Leupold Mark 4 models. These better have incredible glass and build quality or they will fall flat on their face. I mean c'mon, I only paid $1100 for a new Steiner Military that was made in Germany (admittedly a closeout special). The estimated street prices are approaching Nightforce NXS and Vortex Razor territory.
Disappointed that these aren't made in the USA like the original XTR series, or many other discontinued Burris scope lines (Euro Diamond, Black Diamond, others).
From a fairly satisfied owner of an original XTR, which I paid less than $1k for and thought was better than a Mark 4 in every respect I had tried.
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The only scope in this line up that I was even vaguely interested in was the dual focal plane 1.5-8x but alas, Mils>MOA>poop>BDC>ACOG.
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Bushnell proved that a company with a history of producing low-end optics could up their game and produce some winners. If you'd told me 3-4 yrs ago that I'd have a Bushnell ANYTHING on a good rifle, I'd have accused you of bumping your head, but I now not only own one, but recommend them (and am considering another).
HOWEVER, regardless of glass, quality of construction, country of construction, etc etc etc, until Burris offers some reticles from THIS decade, they're not even on the table. It took some work to take a Gen 1mildot, mix it with a TMR style mil reticle, and come out with the worst of both and have THAT as your only reticle offering? C'mon, they could have copied pretty much anyone's existing reticles and been competitive.
The reticle is where all the other components of a scope come together and interface with the target. I'm not going backwards several generations of reticle in a newly-designed scope.
HOWEVER, regardless of glass, quality of construction, country of construction, etc etc etc, until Burris offers some reticles from THIS decade, they're not even on the table. It took some work to take a Gen 1mildot, mix it with a TMR style mil reticle, and come out with the worst of both and have THAT as your only reticle offering? C'mon, they could have copied pretty much anyone's existing reticles and been competitive.
The reticle is where all the other components of a scope come together and interface with the target. I'm not going backwards several generations of reticle in a newly-designed scope.
Pretty much, with the offerings here in the 21st century the acog really has no place. Its the worst of both worlds. I dont know about you but I dont see very many people buying acogs anymore, seems to me most are going with low power variables. Whens the last time you saw a bunch of acogs at a 3 gun competition, theyre few and far between compared to all the 1-4 PSTs, 1-6 razors, 1-6 SSs and a spattering of the high end 1-X scopes. Why would you pay what a quality 1-6 is going for, for a fixed power scope that does neither close or long range as well as a low power variable. The only people who like them over low power variables are ones who are stuck with their low resale value acogs.
With the prices of these scopes theyre going to have a tough time gaining traction in a market of already proven quality scopes.
In the larger military market, ACOG's are still used. The 3gun game market is very small and not something to base a decision on for a real world, hard use optic. Eventually the variables will take the placed of fixed optics on the battlefield, but it will take a rugged, proven optic to do so. Trijicon with their VCOG may be a player along with existing military suppliers such as Nightforce, etc., but most optics in the gun games do not offer the ruggedness of the current military grade optics in use.
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I agree that a "combat optic" needs to be rugged, but that's about all the ACOG has going for it in today's optics world. The reason it's still in use is inertia. The Army is also still issuing Aimpoints and I believe the Marine Corps still has Eotechs (correct me if I'm wrong on that).
Don't get me wrong, I like both the Aimpoint and the Eotech for what they are, but they're very one-dimensional optics.
Back in 2010 I could have selected basically any optic in the world to put on my rifle. Based on the terrain, common patrol profiles, day to day missions, etc I went with the Leupold CQT. At the time the CQT was one of the few available low variables and it was TOUGH.
The CQT did have some drawbacks, which I had the opportunity to pass on to Leupold, and they advised they were already working on correcting them and the next optic would hopefully address them. They came out with the HAMR/Delta combo which to me was sort of a stop gap, then came out with the Mk8 CQBSS (I'm hoping I have that sequence correct).
Just about everyone has come out with great low variables; and they've done it for a reason: the ACOGs and Red Dots are too one-dimensional. They're still good optics for what they were designed to do, but they've been surpassed.
Just remember that IPSC/3-Gun/Bullseye is where red dot sights got their start, and where manufacturers learned their lessons about ruggedness and battery life.
PST: 4x zoom, FFP, 30mm tube, zero stop, Illuminated, matching reticle/knobs
Razor: 4x zoom, FFP, 35mm tube, zero stop, Illuminated, matching reticle/knobs
XTRII: 5x zoom, FFP, 34mm tube, zero stop, Illuminated, matching reticle/knobs
It will all depend on the glass quality and durability, but the feature set really is more inline with the Razor 5-20. List price suggests they want to compete with the Razor, but are willing to cut the competition off at the knees in the "street price" game.
One thing I do not agree with in the current scope market, is that the true Top Tier scopes actually cost 3-4x to manufacture. I believe they cost more to manufacture, but I would be willing to bet that the profit margin on an S&B-etc is significantly larger than other scopes. The market segment is just willing to pay what they ask, therefore they get a big chunk more money.
My bet is that Burris is willing to take more of a cut on the profit margin than the other producers. If that turns out to be the case, then I think this will drastically change the pricing of the market.
Open competition is good. It brings better products to market at cheaper prices.
There was a 5-25 at the Snipers Hide Cup last year. I believe he took 20th or thereabouts so yea I'd say a quality scope that can hang.
I got to look through it, surprised at seeing the scope, and I was impressed. Plain and simple. I was especially blown away when told the price range for these scopes. I have a SWFA 5-20, and what little I got to check it out, the glass/knobs were much better on the Burris (didn't do anything official, just a joe's opinion). One thing is I hope they come out with a fancy rect. Even tho I used the G2 for a couple years and never had a prob with it.
Regards,
DT
I got to look through it, surprised at seeing the scope, and I was impressed. Plain and simple. I was especially blown away when told the price range for these scopes. I have a SWFA 5-20, and what little I got to check it out, the glass/knobs were much better on the Burris (didn't do anything official, just a joe's opinion). One thing is I hope they come out with a fancy rect. Even tho I used the G2 for a couple years and never had a prob with it.
Regards,
DT
I got to check out a 5-25 today at the Dallas Safari Club trade show. Nice scope. The turrets feel pretty good, not quite as good as my NF but not bad. Zero stop is a hard stop and all the controls felt nice and smooth. Glass is too hard for me to tell indoors but it seemed good. Burris rep said it was an actual production model and that they should start shipping a few weeks after SHOT.
Love the idea of more competition in this arena, but those posted MSRP are not what I like to see. Was hoping that more comp would equal lower prices.
From a personal standpoint, I find it mind boggling that they would offer the 1-5 with a mil reticle, but only offer the 1.5-8 with a BDC. What is that about?
From a personal standpoint, I find it mind boggling that they would offer the 1-5 with a mil reticle, but only offer the 1.5-8 with a BDC. What is that about?
I'm eyeing a 2-10 or the 3-15. I'm always willing to try something new. I remember when the bushnell dmr scopes came out I heard numerous people say that they would spend that kind of money on a bushnell. I even thought that myself and now myselfnand about everyone else owns one.
Well hell, just when I pulled the trigger on their XTR-416 scope. I've had it mounted about a month now.
If you search the model numbers in google they are on a number of websites.
http://www.xtremenavigation.com/Burris-201050-Bur-Xtr-Ii-5x-25x-50-Ill-G2b-201050_p_25665.html
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http://www.xtremenavigation.com/Burris-201050-Bur-Xtr-Ii-5x-25x-50-Ill-G2b-201050_p_25665.html
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If you are going to use an inflated msrp equal to or higher than a NF, the clicks better be more tactile than two marshmallows rubbing together.
Huh? MSRPs mean nothing. Street pricing for the 5-25 is around $1200-$1300. That's for a FFP 5-25 with a zero stop (hard stop, not shims). A comparable NF is $3300 with those features.
These aren't made to compete with high end scopes lets not confuse the two.
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