Rifle Scopes Kahles 3.5-18 SKMR3 initial impressions

[5RWill]

I would appreciate if you could elaborate on your comment about the new scope not being "overly bright". I am not clear on this concept. I have a K624i and would really like to know what to look for. I am looking to get a new scope for a new rifle and want as much insight as to various factors before I drop $3k+ on a new scope. I don't have the luxury of side by side comparison of this level of glass.

Thanks for your thoughts and time!

I don’t mean bright as in i couldn’t see or anything. It lasted 30 minutes after dark and beat my SN-3. The other issue is I’m going on recollection of the 624i and don’t have it side by side to compare. I doubt anyone would be disappointed with this quality of glass as I’ve not seen a single impression that has been negative for the k318i and mine certainly are very positive.

 

[Fig]

Nonsense.

Scopes can be too long for mounting on short actions to achieve comfortable eye relief. I am glad that manufacturers are offering this.

I guess I'm a contrarian too.
They "could", but which scopes are too long for comfortable eye relief on a short action rifle? I mount some big, long bastards and have never noticed any discomfort or problems mounting for optimal eye relief...

Then again I don't care about weight of a scope AT ALL either. I like my comp rifles HEAVY, and a few ounces isn't even noticeable.

There are a lot of applications where a longer eye relief is necessary (up to scout style), but short action, low recoil rifles aren't on my list. I don't even mind a sub 3" relief on a 6mm/6.5mm with the recoil of a .223. I can put my eye right up to it and free recoil all day long without it biting me.

The traditional teaching is to mount it so when you take the rifle up naturally, put your cheek to it, and open your eye you are on the correct distance for eye relief and have a clean sight picture. Great, for a hunting rifle, or F-class, or other sport where you are on it the same way every time.
IMO, for positional shooting, it's best to set it up so your cheek weld will be on the forward portion of the cheek rest so that the front part of your cheek is slightly off the front of it. This allows you to always be in the same place by feel without having to think about it or shift forward or backward to get your eye into the proper position. You're not going to get on the rifle the say way every time in positional shooting, so the traditional method doesn't make sense. If you're in the middle of your cheek rest all you have to go on is your sight picture in the scope; so you'll be shifting back and forth trying to find it if you're in a goofy position. If it is anchored to something you can feel on the cheek rest you can find it without looking through the scope even when you're underneath a truck with the rifle stuck through the ball bracket and your head twisted sideways to fit between the bed of the truck and your scope.

Because of this, and it may just be me and the way I do it, I don't want a ton of eye relief so I have to set the scope further forward. 3"-3.5" is about perfect, where I want to be, and more isn't actually helpful.

 

[Glassaholic]

I would appreciate if you could elaborate on your comment about the new scope not being "overly bright". I am not clear on this concept. I have a K624i and would really like to know what to look for. I am looking to get a new scope for a new rifle and want as much insight as to various factors before I drop $3k+ on a new scope. I don't have the luxury of side by side comparison of this level of glass.

Thanks for your thoughts and time!

I am not Will but I think I can address your question and what Will was referring to. The Kahles K624i scope is known to be an extremely "bright" scope which means if you are shooting midday during bright sunlight conditions the view through the scope can almost be overwhelming, to counter this affect many K624i users purchase ARD devices to cut down on the amount of light coming through the scope. I think what Will is saying is that the K318i does not suffer from this situation as bad as the K624i does and the reason could be simple physics, 50mm objective vs. 56mm objective, potentially more glass elements in 5x optical formula than 4x and so forth. Keep in mind this is not to say this is a detriment to the K624i by any means, a big part of it is the simple fact that it is a 56mm objective scope that has very high light transmission.

 

[Glassaholic]

In regard to the question of where would you need a short scope that a long scope wouldn't work, check out the image below, while DTA advertises with this image for their Covert, this is NOT a good situation, you do not want your front objective that close to the muzzle as you're just begging for all kinds of issues from muzzle blast. This is an ideal situation for an Ultra Short scope like the K318i.

 

[Fig]

Good point. I wasn’t thinking about an SBR.

 

[CSTactical]

We have a few unsold K318i SKMR3's that will be here today just in case anybody is looking for one

 

[5RWill]

So given the pic i posted before i checked eye relief and it felt pretty solid laying down it was perfect. Would you move it forward or move to a different height ring? Given the small amount of clearance?

 

[BallisticPrimate]

In regard to the question of where would you need a short scope that a long scope wouldn't work, check out the image below, while DTA advertises with this image for their Covert, this is NOT a good situation, you do not want your front objective that close to the muzzle as you're just begging for all kinds of issues from muzzle blast. This is an ideal situation for an Ultra Short scope like the K318i.



View attachment 6904838

This is a very good point

 

[5RWill]

Shot it some today. This morning at 9 or so. Was looking for CA. Couldn’t see any all on the white piece of paper i was shooting at. Very good in regard to CA control. I couldn’t find any.

Also got 2700 out of the 130gr ELD m with my 18” 6.5x47

 

[BallisticPrimate]

Shot it some today. This morning at 9 or so. Was looking for CA. Couldn’t see any all on the white piece of paper i was shooting at. Very good in regard to CA control. I couldn’t find any.

Also got 2700 out of the 130gr ELD m with my 18” 6.5x47

Good stuff Will, whats the load?

 

[5RWill]

Good stuff Will, whats the load?

37.3 of Varget with 130gr ELD M 10 thou off. 37.2-37.4 is going to be the node. 37.2 gave me 2722 with an SD of 4.3 IIRC. My TL3 extractor is shaving some brass off the rim of the cartridge, i've got to polish when i get a chance.

 

[Iggles2017]

We have a few unsold K318i SKMR3's that will be here today just in case anybody is looking for one

Got my k318 in today. Shout out to cstactical!!

First impression, the glass, feel, and quality of this scope takes a backseat to no one.

Looking forward to comparing against my sb ultra 3-20

 

[CSTactical]

Got my k318 in today. Shout out to cstactical!!

First impression, the glass, feel, and quality of this scope takes a backseat to no one.

Looking forward to comparing against my sb ultra 3-20

Please let us know what you think after you get a chance to compare them, glad your first impressions are positive

 

[Glassaholic]

Looking forward to comparing against my sb ultra 3-20

I'm looking forward to that comparison as well as the Schmidt & Bender Ultra Shorts are the baseline for high end ultra short design, if the Kahles and soon to be available ZCO ZC420 can keep up with the S&B's optically that will be most impressive.

 

[5RWill]

I took mine out to the range at 6:30pm today with a clear sky there was just a tad of CA reminiscent of the Mark 5 5-25 which IMHO is very good considering the size of the two scopes. Seemed to be horizontal CA due to cheekweld.

 

[CSTactical]

This Kahles K318i 3.5-18x50 MSRK demo model below can be yours for $2856.00 plus shipping! Please give us a call at 916.670.1103 to pick this one up.

From Mike, "tested the Kahles K318i from 220yds to 550yds. The blue plate is at 425yds and the image was amazing. The reticle we tested was the MSRK."

 

[Iggles2017]

I'm looking forward to that comparison as well as the Schmidt & Bender Ultra Shorts are the baseline for high end ultra short design, if the Kahles and soon to be available ZCO ZC420 can keep up with the S&B's optically that will be most impressive.

Ok. Let me just say, as everyone already knows, both of these optics are outstanding, so mostly my thoughts are subjective. Nonetheless, here we go:

Glass - s and b pops a bit more - that being said both have fantastic glass

Turrets- hands down kahles, with the caveat that if one prefers low profile and locking turrets s and b would be the choice

Field of view- s and b

Magnification adjustment - kahles; S and b is a bit too stiff, but again my personal preference

Mechanics- both were fantastic =

Reticle- kahles, again personal preference (skmr 3)

Parallax adjustment- again =

Final thoughts- I'm glad I have both and plan on keeping both for a long time.

Let me know if you have any other specific questions I can answer.

Btw - I used the s and b on a 6.5 creed bolt and the kahles on a 6.5 Grendel AR.

 

[Glassaholic]

^^^ Thank you Iggles, that Schmidt & Bender "Pop" is hard to beat, the only scopes have I found to have as much pop is the Premier and Minox ZP5 (and I assume the Tangent Theta being part of the same family). I am really curious if ZCO will have the same "pop", for those who may not have experience with these scopes, what we're referring to here is that experience when you look through the scope, the colors, the contrast, the resolution just makes the image really clear and pleasing to look at, this is what we refer to as "pop".

 

[918v]

Ok. Let me just say, as everyone already knows, both of these optics are outstanding, so mostly my thoughts are subjective. Nonetheless, here we go:

Glass - s and b pops a bit more - that being said both have fantastic glass

Turrets- hands down kahles, with the caveat that if one prefers low profile and locking turrets s and b would be the choice

Field of view- s and b

Magnification adjustment - kahles; S and b is a bit too stiff, but again my personal preference

Mechanics- both were fantastic =

Reticle- kahles, again personal preference (skmr 3)

Parallax adjustment- again =

Final thoughts- I'm glad I have both and plan on keeping both for a long time.

Let me know if you have any other specific questions I can answer.

Btw - I used the s and b on a 6.5 creed bolt and the kahles on a 6.5 Grendel AR.

So what you’re sayin that Kakles and S&B have the same parallax turn effort and feel?

 

[Iggles2017]

So what you’re sayin that Kakles and S&B have the same parallax turn effort and feel?

No - actually the kahles is a bit stiffer which I liked. I meant both were in the same relative accuracy- distance wise. Sorry for any confusion.

 

[MACHTECH]

^^^ Thank you Iggles, that Schmidt & Bender "Pop" is hard to beat, the only scopes have I found to have as much pop is the Premier and Minox ZP5 (and I assume the Tangent Theta being part of the same family). I am really curious if ZCO will have the same "pop", for those who may not have experience with these scopes, what we're referring to here is that experience when you look through the scope, the colors, the contrast, the resolution just makes the image really clear and pleasing to look at, this is what we refer to as "pop".

So if all those scopes have "pop", what do you call what Hensoldt's have...."PA-POW"???.

Have a great memorial day everyone and thanks to all that have served!!

Todd

 

[M5NSX]

For sure from what I’ve seen thru your Henny scopes and spotter!!

 

[CBDR]

Got my k318 in today. Shout out to cstactical!!

First impression, the glass, feel, and quality of this scope takes a backseat to no one.

Looking forward to comparing against my sb ultra 3-20

I am interested in your comparison results between the 3-20 US & the 3-18 K.ahles. I use a 5-20 US and by day she is very nice. After S/S coupled with NV she is the cats meow. My 624 Kahles walks all over the Ultra Short by day but once again after S/S the shorter of the two is much easier to work in the dark. I have a 18" 308 bolt action build underway that is going to be my new primary night time rig. Anticipated max shooting distance 300m. I'm torn between getting another Ultra Short and the new Kahles 3-18. Feedback welcome.

 

[Forrest84]

Just ordered mine from CS tactical and they were great to deal with.

Thanks Richard!

 

[CSTactical]

Just ordered mine from CS tactical and they were great to deal with.

Thanks Richard!

You're very welcome! Please let us know what you think when you get a chance to use it

 

[TheMammoth]

Been using mine for a few weeks, I believe I was in the first shipment out of CStactical.

Loving the unit, even though I have mostly been just looking through it due to eye surgery. The glass is wonderful. I have three NF ATACR, a Kahles 624i, vortex HD2 as well as a plethora of non alpha glass and I’ve owned an AMG. This is easily my favorite in terms of glass quality and size. It’s just so so good to my eyes.

Anyone know where I can get tenebraex covers and a sunshade?

 

[5RWill]

Been using mine for a few weeks, I believe I was in the first shipment out of CStactical.

Loving the unit, even though I have mostly been just looking through it due to eye surgery. The glass is wonderful. I have three NF ATACR, a Kahles 624i, vortex HD2 as well as a plethora of non alpha glass and I’ve owned an AMG. This is easily my favorite in terms of glass quality and size. It’s just so so good to my eyes.

Anyone know where I can get tenebraex covers and a sunshade?

I haven’t found tenebraex in stock anywhere but eurooptic has the sunshade.

 

[TheMammoth]

I haven’t found tenebraex in stock anywhere but eurooptic has the sunshade.

Awesome, thanks Will.

 

[TheMammoth]

I wonder if the 50mm adapter will fit that was for the old k312i...

 

[5RWill]

Awesome, thanks Will.

I wonder if the 50mm adapter will fit that was for the old k312i...

No problem. Yes it should. On kahles site they have a list and part number for the covers. I believe thdid 50mm tenebraex that works for the 312i is the same.

 

[sw41]

I just got a Kahles K318i and am taking it out to the range to compare side by side with my K624i, and a friend's NF 7-35, and Vortex AMG 6-24. I'm not sure if anyone has pointed this out but the K318i is just barely big enough to fit in a normal Spuhr mount. I have it in a Spuhr 4601. The front tube is barely long enough for the front ring of the Spuhr. The 30mm/1.18 inch Spuhr is fine for my CTR but I wish it were just a little shorter. I think Badger 1 inch high 34mm rings would be perfect on the CTR and the low .92 inch 34mm might even work.

 

[CSTactical]

We have more SKMR3 Kahles K318i 3.5-18x50 just come in! https://bit.ly/2EXCE6M

 

[B-P-UU]

I just got a Kahles K318i and am taking it out to the range to compare side by side with my K624i, and a friend's NF 7-35, and Vortex AMG 6-24. I'm not sure if anyone has pointed this out but the K318i is just barely big enough to fit in a normal Spuhr mount. I have it in a Spuhr 4601. The front tube is barely long enough for the front ring of the Spuhr. The 30mm/1.18 inch Spuhr is fine for my CTR but I wish it were just a little shorter. I think Badger 1 inch high 34mm rings would be perfect on the CTR and the low .92 inch 34mm might even work.

What did you learn during your comparison?

 

[Stoweit]

Just ordered mine from CS Tactical, great pricing and service. Pretty excited for my first FFP scope.

 

[CSTactical]

Just ordered mine from CS Tactical, great pricing and service. Pretty excited for my first FFP scope.

Thank you Sir!

 

[CSTactical]

Just a size comparison between the K318i and the K624i

 

[Glassaholic]

Just a size comparison between the K318i and the K624i

Now throw the new K525i in there as well Not fair comparing an ultra long to an ultra short

 

[CSTactical]

Now throw the new K525i in there as well Not fair comparing an ultra long to an ultra short

We will when we get them

 

[usmc45]

Spent the last weekend running the K318i (SKMR3) and a S&B 3-20 US (P4F) the following is personal opinion only.

Turrets: Kahles had a better feel and click although I like the capped windage and locking turret of the S&B

Reticle: Totally personal preference but I like the P4F, shooting hold overs was better with the SKMR3

Glass: Initially getting behind each the Kahles “pops” better but once you start shooting I can’t tell a difference.

Size: The Kahles is really compact and easy to mount. The S&B is a little long on the eye end of things.

Tracking: Both were perfect.

“eye box”: I personally have an easier time getting behind the S&B but both are very forgiving.

Again, all my personal opinion……happy shooting.

 

[Glassaholic]

Spent the last weekend running the K318i (SKMR3) and a S&B 3-20 US (P4F) the following is personal opinion only.

Turrets: Kahles had a better feel and click although I like the capped windage and locking turret of the S&B

Reticle: Totally personal preference but I like the P4F, shooting hold overs was better with the SKMR3

Glass: Initially getting behind each the Kahles “pops” better but once you start shooting I can’t tell a difference.

Size: The Kahles is really compact and easy to mount. The S&B is a little long on the eye end of things.

Tracking: Both were perfect.

“eye box”: I personally have an easier time getting behind the S&B but both are very forgiving.

Again, all my personal opinion……happy shooting.

Thank you for sharing usmc, that is helpful. I just picked up my Ultra Short 3-20 with MSR reticle and am waiting for the new ZCO ZC420 to compare but getting a little nervous as to when that scope might appear (nervous in that I was hoping it might be here by July but have my doubts about that now with ZCO's silence). I also have the new Leupold Mark 5 3.6-18x44 but can't afford the K318i while I'm waiting for everything else. Truly sounds like Kahles has a real winner with this Ultra Short design.

 

[Stoweit]

That’s what I’m hoping, ZCO seems likes a ways out and more money. I’m sure it’ll be awesome, but I wanna shoot now.?

 

[CSTactical]

That’s what I’m hoping, ZCO seems likes a ways out and more money. I’m sure it’ll be awesome, but I wanna shoot now.?

You'll be very happy with your K318i

 

[Stoweit]

Got it today, couldn’t be happier. Reticle is awesome, clarity through mag range is unbelievable. Can’t wait to go to the range tomorrow. Got eye releife and and level set. Just need to shoot it to where it needs to be.

 

[CSTactical]

Got it today, couldn’t be happier. Reticle is awesome, clarity through mag range is unbelievable. Can’t wait to go to the range tomorrow. Got eye releife and and level set. Just need to shoot it to where it needs to be.

Please let us know your impression after you use it today

 

[Stoweit]

Got mine zeroed today. Glass was really good, as good or better than my ATACR, no noticeable CA and really good resolution. Windage took about a mil and half right. Elevation was 10 Mils low which seemed odd. I have about 20 Mils left before I top out. Does that seem normal? Aside from that it shot great, weather was 90 and humid light breeze. Reticle is awesome, floating dot was great and when I used the Xmas tree a little it seemed very easy to use. Overall super impressed with the scope. Eye box was very forgiving as well.

 

[Stoweit]

Couple pictures of my setup.

 

[5RWill]

Anyone found Tenebraex covers yet for this model?

 

[bjay]

Anyone found Tenebraex covers yet for this model?

What type of caps does this scope comes with?

 

[TheMammoth]

Anyone found Tenebraex covers yet for this model?

The front cover for the old K312i and the rear cover for the K624i are what you need. I have them on my unit right now. I also got a killflash when I ordered the covers from EuroOptic

 

[TheMammoth]

What type of caps does this scope comes with?

Disappointingly, it only comes with a wetsuit-like scope coat.