Kestrel products discussion thread / Horus Kestrel

Christopher Rance

Christopher Rance

CR2 Shooting Solutions
Full Member
Minuteman
Jul 14, 2007
418
21
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Fort Benning
www.cr2shootingsolutions.com
#1
Hello,
My name is Chris, consultant for Kestrel. I'm here to discuss your gripes, concerns and overall product satisfaction on the Kestrel line of products. I'm also lead consultant on the Horus Kestrel, and Would like to hear everyone's honest opinion on the piece of equipment and what features you would like to see implemented on future models. I'm doing this because the consumer drives the product and the people at Kestrel really care about the military, law enforcement, competitive shooter and hunter and want honest insight on how to make their product better.

If you want to contact me offline please PM me or email.

If you have any questions on the HorusKestrel and need technical assistance please contact me directly and I will resolve it.

Thanks,
Chris
 
#2
#3
Re: Kestrel products discussion thread / Horus Kestrel

I am running the 4500/Horus an simply love it. I have came to rely on it 100%. My question is: In the gun library, how do I delete a rifle to make room for others,namely the default rifles that take up room and I will never use. I cant even edit them to something I can use.
 
#4
Re: Kestrel products discussion thread / Horus Kestrel

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jon Lester</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am running the 4500/Horus an simply love it. I have came to rely on it 100%. My question is: In the gun library, how do I delete a rifle to make room for others,namely the default rifles that take up room and I will never use. I cant even edit them to something I can use. </div></div>

The easiest way I have found is by using the Horus Gun Loader software with some type of interface (bluetooth or Serial). It makes managing the guns and load much easier than dealing with them directly on the device.

Get it here:
http://www.horusvision.com/download/HKInstaller.zip
 
#5
Re: Kestrel products discussion thread / Horus Kestrel

@Chris...

I would highly suggest following this thread:

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3651092&page=1

It seems a number of end users have had corrosion issues with Kestrel's and someone who seems fairly knowledgeable from a technical standpoint has suggested the corrosion is partially (at least) based on the design of the kestrel units.
 
#6
Re: Kestrel products discussion thread / Horus Kestrel

Chris: I want a civilian version of the Kestrel with Horus ballistic capabilities out to 3,600 + yards for my .375 Cheytac. I understand you have something like that for the military but.....
 
#7
Re: Kestrel products discussion thread / Horus Kestrel

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HeroFish</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jon Lester</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am running the 4500/Horus an simply love it. I have came to rely on it 100%. My question is: In the gun library, how do I delete a rifle to make room for others,namely the default rifles that take up room and I will never use. I cant even edit them to something I can use. </div></div>

The easiest way I have found is by using the Horus Gun Loader software with some type of interface (bluetooth or Serial). It makes managing the guns and load much easier than dealing with them directly on the device.

Get it here:
http://www.horusvision.com/download/HKInstaller.zip </div></div>


I have the HP ipaq unit with ATRAG MX also but have had ZERO luck transferring info via bluetooth.
 
#8
Re: Kestrel products discussion thread / Horus Kestrel

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jon Lester</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am running the 4500/Horus an simply love it. I have came to rely on it 100%. My question is: In the gun library, how do I delete a rifle to make room for others,namely the default rifles that take up room and I will never use. I cant even edit them to something I can use. </div></div>

The default guns cannot be deleted. I understand how this is a hassle and were working on it. If you try to edit them, it will simply become a new gun profile while the original stays the same. I'm pushing to get this fixed.

As for your transfer issues, do you have the current gun loader software installed? V 1.0.15.
 
#10
Re: Kestrel products discussion thread / Horus Kestrel

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HeroFish</div><div class="ubbcode-body">@Chris...

I would highly suggest following this thread:

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3651092&page=1

It seems a number of end users have had corrosion issues with Kestrel's and someone who seems fairly knowledgeable from a technical standpoint has suggested the corrosion is partially (at least) based on the design of the kestrel units. </div></div>

Thank you for this.
 
#11
Re: Kestrel products discussion thread / Horus Kestrel

I think if you could somehow add a gps chip in the meter so the altitude could be accounted for automatically that would make for a much more usable meter that would be worth the minimal size and cost increases that would be required.
 
#12
Re: Kestrel products discussion thread / Horus Kestrel

I am not sure if the technology already exits or not, I would like to be able to plug my kestrel into my laptop and save data on weather conditions for the days I shoot. My partner thinks I'm nuts because we already write it down in our data books but I would like to store the data electronically. You guys build a great product keep the new stuff coming!
 
#13
Re: Kestrel products discussion thread / Horus Kestrel

I have a Kestrel 4500BT with ATragM software (includes Accuracy 1st formulas). The range estimation feature takes mil reading inputs in 0.1 mil increments only, which is simply too coarse.

Example (40" target):
1.0 mil reading = 1016m
1.1 mil reading = 924m

For my 308 there is a 2.1 mil difference between elevation holds for those two ranges. The software needs to accept smaller increments than 0.1mil.
 
#14
Re: Kestrel products discussion thread / Horus Kestrel

I've noted your requests and I have a report ready to send tomm.

I agree on the GPS capability and rest assured it is being worked on as we speak.

I also agree in the range estimation feature and will fight for that change.

For the weather collection, I do know of a few Andriod apps that store that data and the 4000 series Kestrels can use the interference software and cable to store/review data. Obviously you have a great point and to make this process easier would be a killer feature.
 
#17
Re: Kestrel products discussion thread / Horus Kestrel

I think I am misunderstanding this quote:
"The default guns cannot be deleted"

Using the HKGunLoader software v1.014r, and creating a new gun file, I can easily have only guns I input on the device. Here are some pictures. Unless I am way off track and not understanding the question? Below are images of the transfer of the current gun list on my device (called TempGunList) to my computer in HKGunLoader where I look at the list (only 2 guns).

hk1.JPG

HK2.JPG
 
#18
Re: Kestrel products discussion thread / Horus Kestrel

@mrjimsfc

Not sure if this is exactly what your asking about, however I have spoken with Tommy Loomis at Kestrel - who was part of the group responsible for creating the military version of the Kestrel. He says that there are very little difference between the military version of the Kestrel and the Civilian version. The military version is built from all US sources parts, has lititum disposable batteries standard and has slightly modified external housing which I think was something to do with IR if I remember correctly. However, no difference in the functioning of the device.
 
#19
Re: Kestrel products discussion thread / Horus Kestrel

@Rooster931

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rooster931</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am not sure if the technology already exits or not, I would like to be able to plug my kestrel into my laptop and save data on weather conditions for the days I shoot. My partner thinks I'm nuts because we already write it down in our data books but I would like to store the data electronically. You guys build a great product keep the new stuff coming! </div></div>

Download Kestrel Communicator from Kestrel. It's designed expressly for this purpose. Its saved on the Kestrel, and you can select the data and export (save locally) from this software. You need some method to connect the device - this is why I recommend bluetooth. It's not a cable to get lost -- however you can also buy the proprietary serial cable from Kestrel to do the same thing if your Kestrel doesn't have bluetooth.

Here are some pictures

tracker1.JPG

tracker2.JPG
 
#20
Re: Kestrel products discussion thread / Horus Kestrel

I agree this is a great feature - but keep the GPS location accessible as well. Its nice to be able to have the cooridnates logged with the other information, and it would make things more accurate rather than trying to guess elevation from pressure change (or having to carry a GPS to input the elevation).

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BusterB</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think if you could somehow add a gps chip in the meter so the altitude could be accounted for automatically that would make for a much more usable meter that would be worth the minimal size and cost increases that would be required. </div></div>
 
#21
Re: Kestrel products discussion thread / Horus Kestrel

@herofish

Thank you for these great posts with pictures and guidance on some of these questions.

In reference to the default list, I was talking about the actual software gun lists. That will remain, but you can load your custom gun list to unit. Thanks for clearing that up with the pics.
 
#22
Re: Kestrel products discussion thread / Horus Kestrel

In regards to the Bluetooth ( inside Kestrel)
Bluetooth conventional (known as just “Bluetooth”) – what’s in the Kestrel now:

All iOS devices support ONLY the various audio related profiles (headset, stereo headset, phone book) for standard Bluetooth. They do not support the “SPDP” – serial port data protocol – for wireless data exchange. The only way to exchange data with a non-jailbroken iPhone is if the hosted device has a physical Apple authentication chip in it and has gone through the extensive Apple testing to allow data exchange. Pretty much nobody does this because it’s painful and expensive. That is why a Bluetooth Kestrel 4000 cannot hand data to Shooter or any of the other ballistics apps in iOS.

Most Android devices DO support SPDP in their firmware and provide built-in API’s for making connections and exchanging data. http://developer.android.com/guide/topics/connectivity/bluetooth.html. We have provided information and support to a variety of Android developers to leverage this ability so data can be polled directly from the Kestrel into the application. A list of our current partners is here: http://www.nkhome.com/kestrel/software-partners/.
 
#23
Re: Kestrel products discussion thread / Horus Kestrel

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GasGun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">@herofish

Thank you for these great posts with pictures and guidance on some of these questions.

In reference to the default list, I was talking about the actual software gun lists. That will remain, but you can load your custom gun list to unit. Thanks for clearing that up with the pics. </div></div>

GasGun - I am sure its because I am very dense (too many impacts to the head - and resulting increase in bone density), but I just don't understand. Here is a picture of my 4500 + Horus and the only list of guns it has on it currently:
kes001.jpg


I don't see any of the default guns anywhere on my device, nor on the HKGunLoader software (since I deleted all my other GunLists).
 
#25
Re: Kestrel products discussion thread / Horus Kestrel

From Kestrel Communicator:

I suspect you are looking for the Iss 4.68 ?

Iss 4.68
Status: 0
RH cal 1: Jan 01, 2009 03:44:33
RH cal 2: Jan 01, 2009 06:04:19
T2_correct: 9095662
K4500BT
HK: 2081
S/N: -------
Battery: 57% - 1214
Hw: proc=2419 circuit=254
LCD=254 eesize=254 compass=253 bluetooth=254
DCOCTL: 128
 
#26
Re: Kestrel products discussion thread / Horus Kestrel

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GasGun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What are your thoughts on the Bluetooth option that allows you to sync with Andriod ballistic apps such as shooter and Applied Ballistics. </div></div>

This is the unit I'm waiting for!!
I have the Horus/Kestrel and still prefer the shooter APP on my Android.
It seem like a no brainer the use the smart phone for the data input as oppose to the up/down left/right arrow keys.
 
#27
Re: Kestrel products discussion thread / Horus Kestrel

My default lists are still visible on my unit. I'm using a military version kestrel. I'm going up to HQ next week, will be discussing everyone's thoughts and suggestions with the team. Will also get the whole default list issue resolved.

There keeping everything under tight lips, but be prepared for some great news to be announced at SHOT Show.
 
#28
Re: Kestrel products discussion thread / Horus Kestrel

Make a kestrel module that attaches to a iPhone, have a nice app like shooter interface with it and your done
 
#29
Re: Kestrel products discussion thread / Horus Kestrel

Gasgun,

Thanks to you and Kestrel for caring enough to post and listen here.

I have a few suggestions and a complaint. I have the 4500 Bluetooth NV model.

Suggestions:
1) The bluetooth connection is unreliable. Sometimes it connects and somtimes I have to re-try a few times. This happens even when I am within a few feet of the Kestrel. The bluetooth reliability needs to be improved.

2) Adding GPS would be great. It seems odd that I have to enter in known Altitudes at unknown intervals to get altitude and baro readings.

3) You should consider a mat screen instead of glossy. It seems like the screen is either too dark, or reflecting glare in my eyes when I look at the Kestrel. It is a bitch finding an angle where there is enough light to read the screen, without glare making the screen unreadalbe. I have phone and ipads, watches, etc. and this kestrel is the hardest of all the devices to see.

Complaints (Maybe I got a lemon):
4) I set up the altitude baseline and then the baro and get good readings for that day. I turn off the unit and store it in my bag. A week later I take it out of my bag, at the same location, and I get differnet altitude readings (sometimes 200-300 feet off).

5) The density is always 15-25% off the nearest 3 weather stations that are 1/4 mile away. Tempurature is always about 10 degrees higher than the nearest weather stations.

This is new unit, only two weeks old. I have sent it back in to Kestrel for repair but I am not happy having to spend $11 bucks shipping on the return, and standing in holiday post office lines instead of using my $400 device.

So far, I have spent more time cussing at this thing than using it productively.
 
#31
Re: Kestrel products discussion thread / Horus Kestrel

just a note to everyone who uses iphone and android apps for ballistics info. I near Casper WY this weekend up in the smallish mountains there ~ 6500 ft, and it was fairly chilly. Because of this my iphone kept shutting down, and wouldn't start up until I warmed it up inside my shirt. It was about 10 degrees or so, but I have had this happen even warmer temps when hunting.

From Apple:
Operating ambient temperature: 32° to 95° F (0° to 35° C)

From Kestrel:
The operational temperature range of the liquid crystal display and batteries is 14° F to 131° F / -10 °C to 55 °C. Beyond the limits of the operational temperature range, the
unit must be maintained within range and exposed for minimum time necessary to take reading.

So, even just the "default" range of the Kestrel is 18 degrees lower and 36 degrees higher, which is more reasonable, and more likely to fall into normal operating temps. At 10 degrees, I got about 30 sec of operation on the iphone before it shutdown. I wish I had the Kestrel with me to compare but I wasn't shooting.

So, if you think you will be operating in temps lower than 32F or higher than 95F, iphone may not be what you want to rely on for your ballistics calculations. If it comes down to it, I guess even the Kestrel wouldn't be either (guess I really need to get one of those FDAC's for really cold temps).
 
#33
Re: Kestrel products discussion thread / Horus Kestrel

@GasGun

I have been doing more research on batteries - due to the Kestrel thread with leaking Alkaline's. I would like to calculate how long XX batteries would last in the Kestrel. To do this, one of the things I need to know is the drain rate produced by the Kestrel. I would like the drain rate (parasitic rate) with the device "off" say after the 15min auto shutoff - and with the data collection rate set to:
1. 1 min
2. 10 min
3. 1 hour
4. 6 hours
5. 12 hours

Likely with the 1 min, we can calculate the others, but if they have the data already available, it would be easier. Can you get this from the engineers? Rachael doesn't usually have this type of information, and while I can ask her I figured maybe you have access to the engineers also :).

By the way, I would love some hints about what to expect soon at Shot (and how long after introduction shipment would be available).
 
#34
Re: Kestrel products discussion thread / Horus Kestrel

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Abq-Defense</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Complaints (Maybe I got a lemon):
4) I set up the altitude baseline and then the baro and get good readings for that day. I turn off the unit and store it in my bag. A week later I take it out of my bag, at the same location, and I get differnet altitude readings (sometimes 200-300 feet off).</div></div>

This is not a defect of the unit, it is a defect of your local weather
wink.gif
Seriously, changes in baro pressure over a period of a couple days will indeed cause the measured altitude to shift, unless you re-cal the unit. That's just the way that any pressure altimeter is going to operate, and why they require frequent adjustment, especially as the local weather changes.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
5) The density is always 15-25% off the nearest 3 weather stations that are 1/4 mile away. Tempurature is always about 10 degrees higher than the nearest weather stations.</div></div>

Let me guess - the weather stations report substantially higher than you unit? Local weather stations almost certainly report a barometric pressure that is corrected to be equivalent to what would be measured at sea level. Since you are at a significant altitude, the actual pressure ("station pressure") is substantially lower - about 17% less than sea level when at 5000ft.
 
#35
Re: Kestrel products discussion thread / Horus Kestrel

@HeroFish, I submitted the information you requested and I'm waiting on feedback.

I got back from HQ Thursday and I'm 100% confirming that Kestrel has listened to the customers concerns from G7 support to added hardware/software features and they will be making a huge showing at SHOT Show with new and innovative product announcements that the shooting community will approve. I can't give details as its still hush hush, but trust me when I say it will be worth the wait.

Shot show is only a few weeks away.
 
#36
Re: Kestrel products discussion thread / Horus Kestrel

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: E. Bryant</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Abq-Defense</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Complaints (Maybe I got a lemon):
4) I set up the altitude baseline and then the baro and get good readings for that day. I turn off the unit and store it in my bag. A week later I take it out of my bag, at the same location, and I get differnet altitude readings (sometimes 200-300 feet off).</div></div>

This is not a defect of the unit, it is a defect of your local weather
wink.gif
Seriously, changes in baro pressure over a period of a couple days will indeed cause the measured altitude to shift, unless you re-cal the unit. That's just the way that any pressure altimeter is going to operate, and why they require frequent adjustment, especially as the local weather changes.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
5) The density is always 15-25% off the nearest 3 weather stations that are 1/4 mile away. Tempurature is always about 10 degrees higher than the nearest weather stations.</div></div>

Let me guess - the weather stations report substantially higher than you unit? Local weather stations almost certainly report a barometric pressure that is corrected to be equivalent to what would be measured at sea level. Since you are at a significant altitude, the actual pressure ("station pressure") is substantially lower - about 17% less than sea level when at 5000ft. </div></div>

Your guesses are wrong. Kestrel checked out the unit and agreed it needed to be re-calibrated at the factory.

I have the unit back now and it works as I would expected, not like it did before.
 
#37
Re: Kestrel products discussion thread / Horus Kestrel

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Abq-Defense</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Your guesses are wrong. Kestrel checked out the unit and agreed it needed to be re-calibrated at the factory.</div></div>

Very interesting - thanks for the update!
 
#39
Re: Kestrel products discussion thread / Horus Kestrel

Hi,
I have a 4500 with Horus ATrag. I think for an instrument with so many features the manual could be more detailed. Specifically I was trying to enter second value for MV and "drop-true" and I had some issues. I contacted Kestrel and have been told to contact Horus. I contacted Horus and some lady answered relatively quickly that the specialist on ATrag is away and will handle it. Its been almost a year. I solved the issue in the meantime but this experience left me with an impression, that the Company's position is: "We have your 600 bucks, don't bother us."

Otherwise the product is great, just the customer service sucks.
 
#41
Re: Kestrel products discussion thread / Horus Kestrel

Like I wrote, I already figured it out - the "drop-truing" feature disappeared when I entered the second MV value and it just surprised me. I quickly realized its two ways to achieve the same. But when "drop-truing" it took some time for me to understand that I have to change the BC, until the dope matches reality. I couldn't find the BC values at different ranges :-D The manual could mention it.
 
#42
Re: Kestrel products discussion thread / Horus Kestrel

I would really like to see a Mac version of the software. Using goSerial with Bluetooth isn't always reliable, and sometimes it's hard to figure out the column values when titles aren't supplied.

Also a Mac compatible bluetooth module.
 
#43
Re: Kestrel products discussion thread / Horus Kestrel

I'm working on RE writing that manual to assist users with truing.

As for MAC capability, were working on that and hopefully we get that going soon. The same goes for the actual GunLoader software and making that more reliable as well.

Again, I appreciate your responses and let me assure you that Kestrel actively monitors these threads and discusses them in their meetings and ill continue to push these issues on a daily basis.
 
#44
sniper24INF said:
I'm working on RE writing that manual to assist users with truing.

As for MAC capability, were working on that and hopefully we get that going soon. The same goes for the actual GunLoader software and making that more reliable as well.

Again, I appreciate your responses and let me assure you that Kestrel actively monitors these threads and discusses them in their meetings and ill continue to push these issues on a daily basis.
Click to expand...


That's good to hear. I don't know how anyone signed off on the original GunLoader Software. When I open mine up get gives me 10 errors I have to click though. I see you guys are going to support the Litz version. I hope that does not mean the ATRAG version is now just the past and gets no support. It's $700 w/ ATRAG and BT, I think everyone would like a really nice interface for it. Something like Ballistic AE on your laptop that helps you true and tune your dope.
I'm not sure how you do that on the Kestrel.
 
#45
The Horus Atrag is not getting tossed to the side, in fact its about to get a huge facelift on the software side. Im really excited in the direction its taking and I'll post that information once Im allowed.

At the end of the day, users will have two great products that each have its own place. It will be up to the shooter to decide on what product they want to run with.

Again though, both products will receive 100% support from NK.
 
#46
That's great! I was a lil worried when I saw the new litz stuff coming out. I really am keeping my fingers crossed for an OS X version, but I'll take what I can get and will use my work PC if needed.

Thank for taking the time to reply, I'm going to sub to this thread, and look forward to the updates.
 
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