LaRue now making their own barrels

[pawprint2]

I sure hope LaRue either has someone in house, or someone that is going to help out on a daily basis for the first year or so. Making quality rifle barrels is indeed something you can't just do. Buying the machinery is great, but it doesn't really mean crap. The best barrels in the world are still made of old Pratt and Whitney rifling machines from WWI and WWII, it's all about knowing what you are doing.

Best of luck to them, but I'd be a bit leery at this point.

Wow! There is a piece of info. Are FN sniper rifle barrels made on these machines? They seem to do fairly well in FBI testing, and last a long time. How did Anschutz get ahold of one those machines? Somebody told me, that SIG made a pretty good rifle, I was just wondering how they got one too, they must be everywhere.
Those TRG rifles I've heard about, must not be as good as some claim, because I fairly sure their tubes are not made on WWI or WWII PandW machines.

 

[Raptorx]

I never said I didn't like KAC, I'm just not sure the extra price is justified. If Uncle Sam is buying and I'm heading to the sand box sure give me a KAC. If I'm sitting on my bench trying to make bug holes I don't see the advantage.

 

[Name Enough]

I think more and more assemblers will make their own parts such as barrels because they do not want to be dependent on supplier. I have heard LWRC is going to make their own barrels and in addition to the equipment the training process takes six months for the operators.

 

[TitaniumBlue]

Wow! There is a piece of info. Are FN sniper rifle barrels made on these machines? They seem to do fairly well in FBI testing, and last a long time. How did Anschutz get ahold of one those machines? Somebody told me, that SIG made a pretty good rifle, I was just wondering how they got one too, they must be everywhere.
Those TRG rifles I've heard about, must not be as good as some claim, because I fairly sure their tubes are not made on WWI or WWII PandW machines.

So what you're telling me is that all of those rifles, right out of the box, can shoot like this?

Amazing 0.349? Group at 600 Yards ? Wagner Shares His Secrets « Daily Bulletin

Ummmm, good luck buddy.


With the way you speak, along with some others around here, you must think that a factory FN, Sig, or Anschutz barrel is better than a Krieger, Chanlynn, Brux, Obermeyer, or Rock Creek. I guess no one should ever get an aftermarket barrel because the factory ones are just as good. At least using your logic.

 

[Cobracutter]

I think more and more assemblers will make their own parts such as barrels because they do not want to be dependent on supplier. I have heard LWRC is going to make their own barrels and in addition to the equipment the training process takes six months for the operators.

There is also the profit margin. If a top end barrel maker charges $350 for a Tube and then another $150-$250 to chamber, you are looking at serious coin. Say that they are getting a bulk deal and that comes down to maybe $375-450 per finished barrel. I never thought larue was that big of a player in terms of units made, but maybe they intend to ramp up production in the future.

Take that barrel manufacture and with equipment amortized across the units, and you can now make a barrel for $100-$200.

So now you are saving $175-350 per rifle made.

Now is Larue going to drop the price of his guns by that ammount?

Hell no, He is going to do what any prudent business owner/manager does, Keep the price the same or even raise it to "compensate for a better barrel and equipment cost"

Now you can see what you want to make them in house. Its all about the bottom line, same as any succsesfull business.

*all these numbers are hypothetical just to show an illustration.

 

[pawprint2]

So what you're telling me is that all of those rifles, right out of the box, can shoot like this?

Amazing 0.349? Group at 600 Yards ? Wagner Shares His Secrets « Daily Bulletin

Ummmm, good luck buddy.


With the way you speak, along with some others around here, you must think that a factory FN, Sig, or Anschutz barrel is better than a Krieger, Chanlynn, Brux, Obermeyer, or Rock Creek. I guess no one should ever get an aftermarket barrel because the factory ones are just as good. At least using your logic.

Actually, if you read my post, I believe you may find you've missed my point entirely!!!!! To claim that the only good barrels are made on P and W WWI AND WWII machines is idiotic and flies in the face of actual facts. Looking at world records, you may find that a tube or two not made on P and W machines are in fact found on the recording setting rifles! Go figure. Regarding FN's tubes, based on FBI testing, I'm pretty sure after 5000 rounds, they will in fact (based on actual testing-repeatable testing by a govt agency, not "well my buddy says") be more accurate than those brands you have mentioned. I also mentioned the SAKO rifles, the TRG's for example, maybe all those posters on this very board that swear by their [trg's] accuracy are just smoking dream pipes, but I think they are giving an accurate account of what they are getting. And again, those tubes are not made on WWI and WWII P and W machines. Lilja's tubes are not even cut, yet they have set a stack of records -accuracy records, not speed shooting, or steel banging, but rather carefully measured scores in national and international comps. It is obvious they aren't made on P and W's as they are not cut. I think you may have heard of a Hart barrel, again not made on a P and W machine, they may not be up to your standards because of this, but for those setting records with them, they seem to be doing quite well.
Do I like an Obermeyer, you bet I do, Boots has made me a couple of great tubes over the years, I like Kreiger's as well (and you can get them a lot quicker), but to make a statement that unless the barrel is made on an old P and W it's not that good, is just plain Wrong.

 

[TitaniumBlue]

It's funny, how not once have I ever said that "only" the best barrels in the world are made on Pratt and Whitney's. I have changed my original post to better reflect any confusion that you can't seem to get through your head. But even if I would have left it as it was, then YOU have missed my point entirely. You can't just go out and buy a bunch of machinery and just become a grade A barrel maker. It takes a lot more than just machinery, if it was all about buying the best machinery around, then you would think that the old out dated Pratt and Whitneys would create crap barrels. Do you see my point yet? Or do I need to clarify some more so that maybe one day you will understand.


But just for fun, I would love to see exactly where I said "the best barrels in the world are only made on Pratt and Whitney rifling machines, anything not made of them is crap and sub par". Because that is exactly what you are insinuating sir.

 

[pawprint2]

Actually you said,"""" "The best barrels in the world are still made of old Pratt and Whitney rifling machines from WWI and WWII, it's all about knowing what you are doing."""
Enough said. There is the Best, then of course there is second, third, etc best. I just beg to differ, there seems to be a few world records being set with barrels that are not made on the equipment that, "The best barrels....." No clarification needed here! The facts speak for themselves. If in Fact "The BEST barrels in the world are still made of old Pratt and Whiney rifling machines from WWi and WWII......" then all those that were not made in this fashion wouldn't be setting accuracy records!! Actually I think Bleiker and other mfgs from around the world know how to make world class tubes without the aid of a P and W machine. In world class comp, the top shooters usually are shooting what they believe will win, they aren't there for the big cash prize.
Also, you have used quotation marks to indicate a quote,( "the best........crap and sub par" to be specific). When you use quotation marks, it usually means that it was actually said by someone, not some fanciful nonsense that just popped into your head. If you are going to just make up crazy stuff leave the quotation marks off, otherwise it looks like you are seeing things that don't exist! I'm serious, are you on meds? If so, have you taken yours today. As the quote you have quoted was never, repeat never posted here.

 

[TitaniumBlue]

Actually you said,"""" "The best barrels in the world are still made of old Pratt and Whitney rifling machines from WWI and WWII, it's all about knowing what you are doing."""
Enough said. There is the Best, then of course there is second, third, etc best. I just beg to differ, there seems to be a few world records being set with barrels that are not made on the equipment that, "The best barrels....." No clarification needed here! The facts speak for themselves. If in Fact "The BEST barrels in the world are still made of old Pratt and Whiney rifling machines from WWi and WWII......" then all those that were not made in this fashion wouldn't be setting accuracy records!! Actually I think Bleiker and other mfgs from around the world know how to make world class tubes without the aid of a P and W machine. In world class comp, the top shooters usually are shooting what they believe will win, they aren't there for the big cash prize.
Also, you have used quotation marks to indicate a quote,( "the best........crap and sub par" to be specific). When you use quotation marks, it usually means that it was actually said by someone, not some fanciful nonsense that just popped into your head. If you are going to just make up crazy stuff leave the quotation marks off, otherwise it looks like you are seeing things that don't exist! I'm serious, are you on meds? If so, have you taken yours today. As the quote you have quoted was never, repeat never posted here.

AHAHAHAH GRAMMAR POLICE!!!!! AHHH RUNNNN!


Never did I say all of the best barrels. Never did I say only the best barrels. Not to mention I have clarified my initial statement so that people like you would understand my original intent, but clearly it still doesn't make sense to you. Hence why you resorted to being a member of the grammar police.

And for the record, a large number of people consider the barrel makers I mentioned before as some of the best in world, and leaps and bounds ahead of any factory barrel maker out there. If you would like, we can make a poll on it and ask the Snipershide members.

 

[TitaniumBlue]

But, in the long run, your opinion is really of no importance to me, so I will let the conversation end at this point. I bid you adieu.

 

[pawprint2]

Wow! I never thought to conduct a poll to find out what the best barrel was! Great idea, perhaps we could do the same with rifles and shooters, we wouldn't even have to shoot any more, just conduct a poll on who would win! You sure are a smart guy, however; you're ahead of your time, for now I'd like to look to world records and international records to determine what is a "winning" action, barrel, trigger etc. Remember, there is best and there is second, third, etc. best. There is no doubt that the makers you have mentioned make great tubes, yes indeed. But to say, ","""" "The best barrels in the world are still made of old Pratt and Whitney rifling machines from WWI and WWII, it's all about knowing what you are doing.""", means in English, if you are not making your barrels on P and W machines (specifically those mfg during WWI and WWII) you are not producing the best. Fairly simple, like asking about a quote that was never made, instead of just admitting you pulled it out of thin air (or somewhere) you start in on some childish rant regarding grammer.
But just to be clear you asked, """But just for fun, I would love to see exactly where I said "the best barrels in the world are only made on Pratt and Whitney rifling machines, anything not made of them is crap and sub par". Because that is exactly what you are insinuating sir. """"
ANSWER: the only place this quote appears is in your post, so the answer is your post!! First you give a quote, then you say it was an insinuation-then you complain when someone tries to answer the question! I'm sure my opinion is of no importance to you, however; for any real data, it does seem you'd rather have a poll than to examine facts, maybe the opinion of others is something you really care about, farewell.

 

[-Nick-]

Grammar wars aside... Larue is still an ass and even if his barrels performed like crap he'd blame the shooter before the product. Reminds me of another builder on here lol...

 

[sickeness]

So Cobra starts posting crap about all the rabid Larue fanboys and then turns around and exposes himself as a rabid KAC fanboy.

I own KAC and Larue products and they have all been gtg from my perspective.
Why does it have to be about personal grudges and not technical info as should be the content of this forum?

I guess once the Larue guy starts giving out free OBRs then people will be satisfied?

 

[Cobracutter]

So Cobra starts posting crap about all the rabid Larue fanboys and then turns around and exposes himself as a rabid KAC fanboy.

I own KAC and Larue products and they have all been gtg from my perspective.
Why does it have to be about personal grudges and not technical info as should be the content of this forum?

I guess once the Larue guy starts giving out free OBRs then people will be satisfied?

When Larue decides to update his mount designs which are elcipsed by bobro and even adm, when he decides to stop talking shit about anyone who doesn't pray like him to a diety.

Its not about being a fan boy, its about who makes better shit. Larue offers nothing that I cannot source and build on the market, with equal to similiar performance. KAC offers shit that no one but them can, and coincidently it makes their rifles better (IMO).

KAC also has this thing called a dealer network, and didn.t fuck over all the dealers by pulling them. You cannot buy a gun directly through KAC, you go through Lawmans or one of their Dealers. I would rather my local dealer hold onto my deposit then Mark getting no interest loans for over a year.

 

[Monstershot]

So Cobra starts posting crap about all the rabid Larue fanboys and then turns around and exposes himself as a rabid KAC fanboy.

I own KAC and Larue products and they have all been gtg from my perspective.
Why does it have to be about personal grudges and not technical info as should be the content of this forum?

I guess once the Larue guy starts giving out free OBRs then people will be satisfied?

This is exactly what I was thinking. When I first started looking for a good rifle this site was reccommended to me as a place with a lot of highly knowledgable shooters congregate and share information. In many cases that is true and in many cases it has some of the worst examples of toxic follow the leader group think I've ever seen. There is definately an anti Larue bias on this site. Why? Not because of the merits or lack thereof about the actual product but because Mark Larue apparently hurt some of your feelings. I suppose that is a good enough reason not to patronize his company though I personally think its pretty childish, the disappointment for me is how it taints this forum. Many of you are not capable of impartiality while screaming at the top of your lungs about how everyone else is a fanboy of some brand or another. Cobras comments I thought were particularly biased and therefore nearly useless as a source of good information.

Same kind of garbage happened in the FD thread. People getting there feelings hurt, and their ego's bruised and then responding emotionally.

I guess the good news is if you spend enough time reading you can actually figure out who gives out really good info and who consistently whines about how they've had their feelings hurt and gives highly biased info that still may even be good...just not trustable.

Full disclosure: I have a Larue PredatOBR on order. I have never been personally attacked by Mark Larue.

Edit* Cobras post was no where near as whiny as poison123's. Gees dude lick your wounds and move on with your life.

 

[KYS]

No offense, but you know little about KAC products. If you know what kind of units and agencies are buying their products, and putting shit like the SCAR17 and other systems in the weapons locker, then you wouldn't say that.

They offer what no other companies offer. They have put more R&D into that AR10 platform than all of the other companies combined most likley. Ever seen a E3 Bolt fail? How many companies will warranty their bolts for 25K (something like that) rnds?

Have you even shot their rifles? LMT, Larue, GAP, ect.... all use COTS parts for the most part. You could source together most of those parts, and with some quality smithing and care, build a very similar rifle. Many times you can build a better rifle (GAP uses POF parts.....they shoot, but no one is taking one in the hindu kush) for around the same price. I have ALWAYS built my own AR's... That is what made me love the system so much. After shooting a SR-15 and MK11, I realized that I have to own them. Does not even compare.

I used to think KAC products were overpriced. Well maybe they are, but they offer shit no one else offers. Their designs shoot softer and I would argue are more reliable than the other brands. There is nothing wrong with GAP/LMT/LARUE, they all make great products, but KAC is a step ahead for a couple of reasons.

The is reason NSWC, MARSOC, Dept of state, ect are buying a shit load of new SR-25 variants to outfit and replace their legacy systems. Their contract price is also considerably less than some of the other known rifles withing USSOCOM. They can't sell a rifle for less to the public than to the government, But when the government backrolls the development of a systems * HINT*, the unit price goes through the roof. As far as I know, KAC pays for its own R&D, and they seem to have no shortage of people and organizations lining up to pay $5K for a .308 rifle

What I find funny is you knock these other manufacturer and claim KAC to be superior when in accuracy testing the KAC SR25 always falls short. Its sloppy tolerances are a joke in most military divisions that have given it a trial run. Hell, even the guys in the Magpul Precision Rifle video start busting on it when they take a few shots with it.
Yes, you may get that rare gem that shoots but almost every AR10 style gun I have handled from them had to be muscled into a shot and accuracy results were nothing to jump up and down about. A GAP10 or OBR smokes them in that department.

The other part of your statement I find laughable is that you can source and buy these parts yourself. Then assemble a gun.

By all means, please try and build yourself an OBR using the exact parts they do. Or better yet please go build a full spec GAP10. And produce their exact results. You just can't do it.
The OBR uses proprietary parts that are made in house and they wont sell them to the general public, period. The GAP10's are some POF parts but then there is the barreling process that you cannot replicate.
What semi auto was used to take the last Military Sniper Team Challenge? Yes, the one on Discovery Channel..... The OBR.

KAC is a step ahead of no one but Armalite and DPMS, maybe. Unless they have made significant changes in their manufacturing process and/or changed the rifles completely I wouldn't pay you $500.00 let alone $5k for a KAC rifle. They are overpriced for what they are.

 

[KYS]

There is also the profit margin. If a top end barrel maker charges $350 for a Tube and then another $150-$250 to chamber, you are looking at serious coin. Say that they are getting a bulk deal and that comes down to maybe $375-450 per finished barrel. I never thought larue was that big of a player in terms of units made, but maybe they intend to ramp up production in the future.

Take that barrel manufacture and with equipment amortized across the units, and you can now make a barrel for $100-$200.

So now you are saving $175-350 per rifle made.

Now is Larue going to drop the price of his guns by that ammount?

Hell no, He is going to do what any prudent business owner/manager does, Keep the price the same or even raise it to "compensate for a better barrel and equipment cost"

Now you can see what you want to make them in house. Its all about the bottom line, same as any succsesfull business.

*all these numbers are hypothetical just to show an illustration.

No offense, but I have read some pretty warped logic before... you are starting to take the cake. You are implying that a company that invests LARGE amount of money into machinery, new employees, training, etc should immediately drop the prices of their equipment because they go in house all of a sudden?
That is pretty funny, you must have never owned or ran a business before because that is EXACTLY how you bankrupt yourself. I am no Mark Larue fan, his equipment is fine but as a person he is a clown. I am not defending him, just trying to figure out the strange logic that you are trying to pass off as a good idea.

The start up costs alone for barreling are going to be thru the roof, you bet your ass he will keep the prices the same for awhile. He has a lot of ground to cover to make up the losses on the investments. If you are not producing, you are losing. Right now on the rifle side of his company I bet he is showing a loss in profits due to the new endeavor.

 

[poison123]

This is exactly what I was thinking. When I first started looking for a good rifle this site was reccommended to me as a place with a lot of highly knowledgable shooters congregate and share information. In many cases that is true and in many cases it has some of the worst examples of toxic follow the leader group think I've ever seen. There is definately an anti Larue bias on this site. Why? Not because of the merits or lack thereof about the actual product but because Mark Larue apparently hurt some of your feelings. I suppose that is a good enough reason not to patronize his company though I personally think its pretty childish, the disappointment for me is how it taints this forum. Many of you are not capable of impartiality while screaming at the top of your lungs about how everyone else is a fanboy of some brand or another. Cobras comments I thought were particularly biased and therefore nearly useless as a source of good information.

Same kind of garbage happened in the FD thread. People getting there feelings hurt, and their ego's bruised and then responding emotionally.

I guess the good news is if you spend enough time reading you can actually figure out who gives out really good info and who consistently whines about how they've had their feelings hurt and gives highly biased info that still may even be good...just not trustable.

Full disclosure: I have a Larue PredatOBR on order. I have never been personally attacked by Mark Larue.

Edit* Cobras post was no where near as whiny as poison123's. Gees dude lick your wounds and move on with your life.

Might want to remove mark's balls from your mouth bro. You have no fucking clue what has transpired between Mark and, or Mark and this Site.

 

[Monstershot]

Might want to remove mark's balls from your mouth bro. You have no fucking clue what has transpired between Mark and, or Mark and this Site.

Thank you for making my points for me. You'll notice I neither defended nor bashed Mark Larue precisely because I don't know the particulars and only care about the actual product he produces. But neither will I be cursing his name on my death bed as you seem destined to. I promise you he is a far bigger part of your life than he is mine. Let it go dude. You're so biased against his company that you percieve anyone not directly bashing Larue Tactical as being a fanboy. Which was my point in the first place. Your intellectual credibility is compromised by your emotion. That fact does not change because 'I have no clue what happened.'

 

[sickeness]

This is exactly what I was thinking. When I first started looking for a good rifle this site was reccommended to me as a place with a lot of highly knowledgable shooters congregate and share information. In many cases that is true and in many cases it has some of the worst examples of toxic follow the leader group think I've ever seen. There is definately an anti Larue bias on this site. Why? Not because of the merits or lack thereof about the actual product but because Mark Larue apparently hurt some of your feelings. I suppose that is a good enough reason not to patronize his company though I personally think its pretty childish, the disappointment for me is how it taints this forum. Many of you are not capable of impartiality while screaming at the top of your lungs about how everyone else is a fanboy of some brand or another. Cobras comments I thought were particularly biased and therefore nearly useless as a source of good information.

Same kind of garbage happened in the FD thread. People getting there feelings hurt, and their ego's bruised and then responding emotionally.

This +1
Its actually pretty sad to see grown ass men, especially veterans, act like a bunch of spoiled children.

Ironic that people talk so much crap about the AR15 site, when in a lot of ways this place can be worse. Personally I think its because since precision rifle gear is so damn expensive people get way more attached and emotionally invested in it.
Either way you are spot-on about how you need to read through this forum to figure out who is actually giving good information/advice and who is just cheerleading/whining.

This is a big reason why I stopped coming to this forum and why other people avoid it as well, the maturity level is just too low at times.

 

[Tact999]

No offense, but you know little about KAC products. If you know what kind of units and agencies are buying their products, and putting shit like the SCAR17 and other systems in the weapons locker, then you wouldn't say that.

They offer what no other companies offer. They have put more R&D into that AR10 platform than all of the other companies combined most likley. Ever seen a E3 Bolt fail? How many companies will warranty their bolts for 25K (something like that) rnds?

Have you even shot their rifles? LMT, Larue, GAP, ect.... all use COTS parts for the most part. You could source together most of those parts, and with some quality smithing and care, build a very similar rifle. Many times you can build a better rifle (GAP uses POF parts.....they shoot, but no one is taking one in the hindu kush) for around the same price. I have ALWAYS built my own AR's... That is what made me love the system so much. After shooting a SR-15 and MK11, I realized that I have to own them. Does not even compare.

I used to think KAC products were overpriced. Well maybe they are, but they offer shit no one else offers. Their designs shoot softer and I would argue are more reliable than the other brands. There is nothing wrong with GAP/LMT/LARUE, they all make great products, but KAC is a step ahead for a couple of reasons.

The is reason NSWC, MARSOC, Dept of state, ect are buying a shit load of new SR-25 variants to outfit and replace their legacy systems. Their contract price is also considerably less than some of the other known rifles withing USSOCOM. They can't sell a rifle for less to the public than to the government, But when the government backrolls the development of a systems * HINT*, the unit price goes through the roof. As far as I know, KAC pays for its own R&D, and they seem to have no shortage of people and organizations lining up to pay $5K for a .308 rifle

Gubmint contracts do no translate into quality weapon systems. Ask how many operators actually prefer something else over the SR25.... You would be quite surprised.


Tapatalk2

 

[Tact999]

I would also agree about the quality progression of this site. When I first joined the site the BS was pretty rare. Now it seems it takes a while to sort through it. It has morphed into an Arf like forum.....


Tapatalk2

 

[BoilerUP]

Everybody likes the gear they've dropped their hard-earned dollars for...and that tends to lead to lots o' rationalization and "fanboi-ism". True of garage built Savages up to full-blown custom rifles.

Frankly, the Hide isn't anywhere close to the joke that is ARFCOM.

I'll never own a Larue, but I sure they are fine rifles and the owner wouldn't put his company's reputation at risk unnecessarily for a little extra profit capability...years down the road after costs are fully amortized.

 

[-Nick-]

Thank you for making my points for me. You'll notice I neither defended nor bashed Mark Larue precisely because I don't know the particulars and only care about the actual product he produces. But neither will I be cursing his name on my death bed as you seem destined to. I promise you he is a far bigger part of your life than he is mine. Let it go dude. You're so biased against his company that you percieve anyone not directly bashing Larue Tactical as being a fanboy. Which was my point in the first place. Your intellectual credibility is compromised by your emotion. That fact does not change because 'I have no clue what happened.'

No you just showed up in a thread talking shit and name calling other members while being a hypocrite and acting like you're above it all. Product goes beyond just their technical applications. It INCLUDES customer service and not bad mouthing your own customers which Mark and F&D both do. Why? Because I don't care how nice something is, when it comes to firearms and products inevitably shit breaks. If you've never had equipment break then you likely don't use it with the frequency some of us do and just don't get it. You also weren't apart of the little fiasco that ensued awhile back where Mark made things extremely personal with several members who have good right to dislike him.

 

[-Nick-]

This +1
Its actually pretty sad to see grown ass men, especially veterans, act like a bunch of spoiled children.

Ironic that people talk so much crap about the AR15 site, when in a lot of ways this place can be worse. Personally I think its because since precision rifle gear is so damn expensive people get way more attached and emotionally invested in it.
Either way you are spot-on about how you need to read through this forum to figure out who is actually giving good information/advice and who is just cheerleading/whining.

This is a big reason why I stopped coming to this forum and why other people avoid it as well, the maturity level is just too low at times.

And yet you're so mature while talking about others in a negative manner? Maybe you should include hypocrisy in that statement. The site level maturity would increase if there wasn't so much pot & kettles including guys like you who want to act like their above it all when in reality you're acting like a support group and "whining" just as much.

 

[Tact999]

Frankly, the Hide isn't anywhere close to the joke that is ARFCOM.
.

More drama nested in the majority of threads than a soap opera........




Tapatalk2

 

[Raptorx]

So much hate. When the reality is the more innovation and competition there is in this industry the better it is for us, the end user. My personal dealing with Larue on the customer service side have always been top notch. You guys can go back and forth about what an ass hole Mark is but it has nothing to do with this thread and nothing to do with the product LT puts out.

 

[Tact999]

So much hate. When the reality is the more innovation and competition there is in this industry the better it is for us, the end user. My personal dealing with Larue on the customer service side have always been top notch. You guys can go back and forth about what an ass hole Mark is but it has nothing to do with this thread and nothing to do with the product LT puts out.

Yes, agree all around! Good job getting thread back on track!


Tapatalk2

 

[-Nick-]

Yes, agree all around! Good job getting thread back on track!


Tapatalk2

Group hug?

 

[poison123]

Explain to me the innovation Mark's Company has done? And lets take this seriously shall we.
About their only claim to fame might be the fact his company figures out how to put a QD system on virtually everything they sell......ok.
If you can sit there and seriously tell me he'll "innovate" barrels.....please tell me how he might surpass the barrels that Barlien, Krieger, or etc currently make.
Please tell me how his chambering will be more exact than say GAP, or Blackops or APA or any of the quality smiths who respond to this site like big boys or girls.

As its been pointed out before, their OBRs aren't the first at anything. If I remember correctly a Gap built AR-10 was used to win the International Sniper Competition years before LT ever produced their first OBR.
So its not like they have done any inovation on the precision gas gun front. Can't say they've done the same on the lightweight precision rifle, as I believe JP has been producing the goto 3gun version of that for quite awhile.

So please inform me....what have they done besides QD(which more than a few people would dispute) that is truly innovative?

There's my serious discussion points for you.

And for the record, if Mark came to this website and started a civil discussion then he would be responded with the same.

 

[sinister]

Marks' photos show he has made a real investment in machinery and presumably talent. He ain't no dummy.

If he makes his own barrels competitive with (or better than) Lothar Walther quality he controls output and cuts wait times (no longer in competition with other OEM manufacturers) and import taxes for a commodity made in Germany. He can, in the long run, keep his prices steadier for longer because he produces his own components (like most other OEM manufacturers -- don't make it if you can buy it, but if you can make it at better quality and a lower price then it adds to your profit margin). Classic American capitalism.

He can use steel bars made in the USA.

You can see boring machines, a cryo freezer, a press for button rifling, a furnace for stress-relief, and what appear to be machines for chambering, outside profiling, cutting to length, crowning, and threading.

Really, really smart move.

By adding barrels to in-house production he potentially reduces his outsourced components to springs, pins, screws, plastic furniture, Geissele triggers, maybe flash hiders, brakes, and compensators, and magazines.

Amazing that folks have rushed to buy FN and Daniel Defense barrels marketed by different dealers. How many would buy Colt, Ruger, and other brands if they were released and generally available?

Competition and the open market.

 

[Tact999]

Explain to me the innovation Mark's Company has done? And lets take this seriously shall we.
About their only claim to fame might be the fact his company figures out how to put a QD system on virtually everything they sell......ok.
If you can sit there and seriously tell me he'll "innovate" barrels.....please tell me how he might surpass the barrels that Barlien, Krieger, or etc currently make.
Please tell me how his chambering will be more exact than say GAP, or Blackops or APA or any of the quality smiths who respond to this site like big boys or girls.

As its been pointed out before, their OBRs aren't the first at anything. If I remember correctly a Gap built AR-10 was used to win the International Sniper Competition years before LT ever produced their first OBR.
So its not like they have done any inovation on the precision gas gun front. Can't say they've done the same on the lightweight precision rifle, as I believe JP has been producing the goto 3gun version of that for quite awhile.

So please inform me....what have they done besides QD(which more than a few people would dispute) that is truly innovative?

There's my serious discussion points for you.

And for the record, if Mark came to this website and started a civil discussion then he would be responded with the same.

This is kind of funny. Obviously your debate is infused with emotion and your personal feelings toward the owner of a company. Innovation is all relative....as not much has really changed over the last 40 years of the original design. Lets be honest here. After all most of the components usually aren't made in house by a majority of the manufacturers anyway. And using your own personal feelings to judge the quality of something before it is released is a bit ignorant. I am not saying the quality will be of Bartlein etc., but why can't it? It could and perhaps judgement should be reserved until someone tests it out. I actually wish more companies would make all of their own parts.


Tapatalk2

 

[-Nick-]

This is kind of funny. Obviously your debate is infused with emotion and your personal feelings toward the owner of a company. Innovation is all relative....as not much has really changed over the last 40 years of the original design. Lets be honest here. After all most of the components usually aren't made in house by a majority of the manufacturers anyway. And using your own personal feelings to judge the quality of something before it is released is a bit ignorant. I am not saying the quality will be of Bartlein etc., but why can't it? It could and perhaps judgement should be reserved until someone tests it out. I actually wish more companies would make all of their own parts.


Tapatalk2

Rather than answering the question you tried to obfuscate it and stick to the argument that he's responding emotionally. Way to try and spin it. Now I'll put it back in your ball court... Here's a list of innovations from numerous manufacturers. Can you name one that came from Larue?

Switchblock
Side Charging Handles
Intermediate Gas systems
Silent Capture Spring
Piston Systems
Adjustable Gas Blocks
Etc Etc Etc

 

[poison123]

This is kind of funny. Obviously your debate is infused with emotion and your personal feelings toward the owner of a company. Innovation is all relative....as not much has really changed over the last 40 years of the original design. Lets be honest here. After all most of the components usually aren't made in house by a majority of the manufacturers anyway. And using your own personal feelings to judge the quality of something before it is released is a bit ignorant. I am not saying the quality will be of Bartlein etc., but why can't it? It could and perhaps judgement should be reserved until someone tests it out. I actually wish more companies would make all of their own parts.


Tapatalk2

So I present a legitimate set of questions and thats what you come back......

 

[-Nick-]

So I present a legitimate set of questions and thats what you come back......

Easy there brotha... don't get emotionally about it. Lol...

 

[Tact999]

Rather than answering the question you tried to obfuscate it and stick to the argument that he's responding emotionally. Way to try and spin it. Now I'll put it back in your ball court... Here's a list of innovations from numerous manufacturers. Can you name one that came from Larue?

Switchblock
Side Charging Handles
Intermediate Gas systems
Silent Capture Spring
Piston Systems
Adjustable Gas Blocks
Etc Etc Etc

Well how did I know you would interject some sort of drama into a response. While I said there really hasn't been any innovation... You have further proved it. There has been very little. I don't own a Larue weapon. I don't have a dog in this fight. I am merely bringing an objective side to this debate. Pistons are out since we are talking DI and even then they aren't new, and if you think about it I am sure you can come up with several weapon systems that were used as a model for it to be put in an AR platform. Switch block and adj gas block a bit redundant but sure I will give you that. Silent capture spring isn't really innovation as it does very little. Yes I have owned one. Not worth the money. Side charging handles.....really.... C'mon you can do better than that. They have been used on crew served weapons forever and not really used on individual carbines because it offers no real advantage. Honestly I don't think one measures the quality of their weapon by tallying up a company's number of innovations. If they simply make a better weapon than another then that is all that should be important right? After all competition in the industry is a win for us the consumer as we are privy to a wider selection of better weapons as they evolve.


Tapatalk2

 

[-Nick-]

Well how did I know you would interject some sort of drama into a response. While I said there really hasn't been any innovation... You have further proved it. There has been very little. I don't own a Larue weapon. I don't have a dog in this fight. I am merely bringing an objective side to this debate. Pistons are out since we are talking DI and even then they aren't new, and if you think about it I am sure you can come up with several weapon systems that were used as a model for it to be put in an AR platform. Switch block and adj gas block a bit redundant but sure I will give you that. Silent capture spring isn't really innovation as it does very little. Yes I have owned one. Not worth the money. Side charging handles.....really.... C'mon you can do better than that. They have been used on crew served weapons forever and not really used on individual carbines because it offers no real advantage. Honestly I don't think one measures the quality of their weapon by tallying up a company's number of innovations. If they simply make a better weapon than another then that is all that should be important right? After all competition in the industry is a win for us the consumer as we are privy to a wider selection of better weapons as they evolve.


Tapatalk2

And like always when someone presents a direct response you like many others come back claiming drama blah blah blah because you're losing the debate. I listed recent innovations, so piston AR's are in fact a recent innovation as well as the piston conversions. There is a CLEAR difference between an adjustable gas block and a switchblock which tells me you definitely have no intelligible response. As for side charging you never obviously used one like a bolt gun with the gas shut off on a suppressed weapon because if you had then you'd know why, not to mention the convenience when needing to charge the handle without leaving you're sight picture like you have to with a standard tac latch. We're tired of everyone talking about how great Larue is and calling him innovative when the fact is he makes a great semi-auto but he's no innovator which is clear. No one said anything about competition being negative but again like a lot of the useless dribble you're pouring into the debate it's nothing more than a pathetic attempt to misdirect the topic into something that was never said or implied.

This is why I have an issue with you whiny old crabs bitching about the "maturity" level here when you talk about others in a negative manner and spew out your own self righteous garbage on a soap box. You want people to stick to the topic and yet you yourselves are incapable of doing so and when you don't you do it under the guise of objectivity. Your no better than those you condemn...

 

[pawprint2]

I'm just glad that this larue character is not a moderator on the Hide!!

 

[Tact999]

LaRue now making their own barrels

Good luck with the thread. Just proving yet another point about the drama that has begun to take over this site. Personal attacks are pretty mature and seemingly comical from keyboard commandos. I am out as this is going no where and I don't want to contribute to wrecking this thread.


Tapatalk2

 

[-Nick-]

Good luck with the thread. Just proving yet another point about the drama that has begun to take over this site. Personal attacks are pretty mature and seemingly comical from keyboard commandos. I am out as this is going no where and I don't want to contribute to wrecking this thread.


Tapatalk2

As you literally just tried to make me out as attacking a wounded vet on another thread... You define hypocrite and just proved my point that you have no real response.

 

[Tact999]

As you literally just tried to make me out as attacking a wounded vet on another thread... You define hypocrite and just proved my point that you have no real response.

I really hope the mods read this and others read the WWP thread. You really are showcasing your maturity level.


Tapatalk2

 

[-Nick-]

I really hope the mods read this and others read the WWP thread. You really are showcasing your maturity level.


Tapatalk2

Lol... yeah cause you're such a victim of the keyboard commando troll...

 

[JelloStorm]

I dont have a dog in this fight either, but I do own a free float tube on my M4 and a canted Aimpoint base that Mark Larue sent me free of charge. I worked at a company and they called for help, so I helped them and we got talking about AR's when I first got into them. Mark sent me almost a grand of his stuff for free. Not many guys do that for some lowly tech-support guy on the phone.

 

[Monstershot]

And like always when someone presents a direct response you like many others come back claiming drama blah blah blah because you're losing the debate. I listed recent innovations, so piston AR's are in fact a recent innovation as well as the piston conversions. There is a CLEAR difference between an adjustable gas block and a switchblock which tells me you definitely have no intelligible response. As for side charging you never obviously used one like a bolt gun with the gas shut off on a suppressed weapon because if you had then you'd know why, not to mention the convenience when needing to charge the handle without leaving you're sight picture like you have to with a standard tac latch. We're tired of everyone talking about how great Larue is and calling him innovative when the fact is he makes a great semi-auto but he's no innovator which is clear. No one said anything about competition being negative but again like a lot of the useless dribble you're pouring into the debate it's nothing more than a pathetic attempt to misdirect the topic into something that was never said or implied.

This is why I have an issue with you whiny old crabs bitching about the "maturity" level here when you talk about others in a negative manner and spew out your own self righteous garbage on a soap box. You want people to stick to the topic and yet you yourselves are incapable of doing so and when you don't you do it under the guise of objectivity. Your no better than those you condemn...

Nick, you are right about one thing, that is my original post was indeed about the clear bias this board has against Larue and not about Larue barrels. But all your other ranting is not about being truthful, accurate or objective but about trying to win an argument and feeling defensive because you've been called out for your emotional, not objective responses. Which of course is what you did in the FD thread. I've had nothing but excellent customer service from Larue Tactical. And you're right I was also not apart of the thread where so many seemed to get their feelings hurt. Why don't you tell me that three more times, each with more explatives, name calling and, ooh, how about all caps, to show me that you are not emotionally compromised and are therefore biased against Larue tactical for childish reasons.

You can have this hill though my friend, you are the perfect example of what I was talking about in my original post and you make yourself more irrelevant with every rant. I'll grant this consession though I am almost completely irrelevent as to imparting actual gun knowledge on this board. As I am here to learn from others who know more than me about these guns, which is pretty much everyone. I'm just bummed I have to read through your posts to get to the un-compromised information.

 

[-Nick-]

Nick, you are right about one thing, that is my original post was indeed about the clear bias this board has against Larue and not about Larue barrels. But all your other ranting is not about being truthful, accurate or objective but about trying to win an argument and feeling defensive because you've been called out for your emotional, not objective responses. Which of course is what you did in the FD thread. I've had nothing but excellent customer service from Larue Tactical. And you're right I was also not apart of the thread where so many seemed to get their feelings hurt. Why don't you tell me that three more times, each with more explatives, name calling and, ooh, how about all caps, to show me that you are not emotionally compromised and are therefore biased against Larue tactical for childish reasons.

You can have this hill though my friend, you are the perfect example of what I was talking about in my original post and you make yourself more irrelevant with every rant. I'll grant this consession though I am almost completely irrelevent as to imparting actual gun knowledge on this board. As I am here to learn from others who know more than me about these guns, which is pretty much everyone. I'm just bummed I have to read through your posts to get to the un-compromised information.

I love how when the righteous rant it's being objective, but those in disagreement are simply emotional. I find it entertaining how you and a few others complain about having to read threw threads with such content and yet the threads you comment and read through are the same subject matter and/or completely designed to get such attention. Now please point out where I have been untruthful or inaccurate in this debate as you flat out state with ZERO content to back such a statement.

 

[Monstershot]

I love how when the righteous rant it's being objective, but those in disagreement are simply emotional. I find it entertaining how you and a few others complain about having to read threw threads with such content and yet the threads you comment and read through are the same subject matter and/or completely designed to get such attention. Now please point out where I have been untruthful or inaccurate in this debate as you flat out state with ZERO content to back such a statement.

Yeah, not gonna do this with you Nick. Your self dillusions are not worth my time. The record is here for any to see. As I said you can have this hill, I'll not respond to you again. I'm not interested in winning a debate just good unbiased info.

 

[-Nick-]

Yeah, not gonna do this with you Nick. Your self dillusions are not worth my time. The record is here for any to see. As I said you can have this hill, I'll not respond to you again. I'm not interested in winning a debate just good unbiased info.

Exactly... You can't back your statements and like many others here in an argument you're going to try and back out with your nose in the air acting like your above it when the fact is you can't defend it without being the very thing you accuse others of. Walk away sunshine...

 

[Cobracutter]

No offense, but I have read some pretty warped logic before... you are starting to take the cake. You are implying that a company that invests LARGE amount of money into machinery, new employees, training, etc should immediately drop the prices of their equipment because they go in house all of a sudden?
That is pretty funny, you must have never owned or ran a business before because that is EXACTLY how you bankrupt yourself. I am no Mark Larue fan, his equipment is fine but as a person he is a clown. I am not defending him, just trying to figure out the strange logic that you are trying to pass off as a good idea.

The start up costs alone for barreling are going to be thru the roof, you bet your ass he will keep the prices the same for awhile. He has a lot of ground to cover to make up the losses on the investments. If you are not producing, you are losing. Right now on the rifle side of his company I bet he is showing a loss in profits due to the new endeavor.

Can you even fucking read? I explicitly said:

"Now is Larue going to drop the price of his guns by that ammount?

Hell no, He is going to do what any prudent business owner/manager does, Keep the price the same or even raise it to "compensate for a better barrel and equipment cost"

Please learn to fucking read before you start talking shit.

 

[Cobracutter]

What I find funny is you knock these other manufacturer and claim KAC to be superior when in accuracy testing the KAC SR25 always falls short. Its sloppy tolerances are a joke in most military divisions that have given it a trial run. Hell, even the guys in the Magpul Precision Rifle video start busting on it when they take a few shots with it.
Yes, you may get that rare gem that shoots but almost every AR10 style gun I have handled from them had to be muscled into a shot and accuracy results were nothing to jump up and down about. A GAP10 or OBR smokes them in that department.

The other part of your statement I find laughable is that you can source and buy these parts yourself. Then assemble a gun.

By all means, please try and build yourself an OBR using the exact parts they do. Or better yet please go build a full spec GAP10. And produce their exact results. You just can't do it.
The OBR uses proprietary parts that are made in house and they wont sell them to the general public, period. The GAP10's are some POF parts but then there is the barreling process that you cannot replicate.
What semi auto was used to take the last Military Sniper Team Challenge? Yes, the one on Discovery Channel..... The OBR.

KAC is a step ahead of no one but Armalite and DPMS, maybe. Unless they have made significant changes in their manufacturing process and/or changed the rifles completely I wouldn't pay you $500.00 let alone $5k for a KAC rifle. They are overpriced for what they are.

Thank you. Thank you for proving how ignorant you are to the products and the community.

1. NO ONE SAID KAC IS THE MOST ACCURATE. God can you fucking show me where anyone said that? Stop putting words into peoples mouths, making shit up to try and twist an argument in your favor. What they are, is the most reliable. They are combat arms, tested and functioning from 15K FT in the middle of winter to 130* in the middle of the desert. When Larue or Gap puts their rifles through the same testing, and can prove with multiple samples the conistantancy......we can talk. A Sniper system does not need to shoot .25MOA. The ammo alone is not going to allow that in a rifle that had no deviation. A rifle that works when you need it, in the most austere situations is more valuable than one that lives on a bench at 70* and can shoot little bug holes. One of those guns is proven.........the rest aren't.

You have no fucking idea what you are talking about. Some of the top trainers in the country and many of the top units are running SR-25 variants.....and they arent getting paid to do it or getting free guns to shoot.

2. Lets talk about GAP. Do a search on here, people who have owned them all..... and see how many people would put GAP above KAC or Larue. They may shoot tiny holes, but they are made with shitty parts (POF) and are not combat guns. WHEN they fail or break, GAP will claim its shooters error...real classy there GAP. They are not reliable enough. Its really that simple.

3. I'm glad you brought up the sniper comp. What is so hysterical is how little the equipment has to do with that comp. Put KAC/LARUE/GAP(if it runs)/LMT or any similar system into that teams hands, and they would have won. Here is a reality check for you, being a sniper is not just about shooting. Their most deadly weapon is the radio. You are out of your element. If you knew how little the rifle's shooting capability had to do with that comp, this stupidity wouldn't have even crossed your mind.

Keep on Keeping on.

 

[Cobracutter]

Rather than answering the question you tried to obfuscate it and stick to the argument that he's responding emotionally. Way to try and spin it. Now I'll put it back in your ball court... Here's a list of innovations from numerous manufacturers. Can you name one that came from Larue?

Switchblock
Side Charging Handles
Intermediate Gas systems
Silent Capture Spring
Piston Systems
Adjustable Gas Blocks
Etc Etc Etc

The QD pen flare launcher. I mean when I was running convoys, our ROE changed to we had to shoot pen fares at a vic before we could light it up. What a pain in the ass to find the flare, load it, and shoot it......and still give yourself enough time to escalate force if you need to. If only I had one of those QD pen flares.... the lives of the good iraqi VBIED drivers may have been that much shorter.

Besides that, he has done nothing. His mounts were the best at a time, and his rails were the best for a time, but quickly they have become obsolete. Instead of refining his products, trying to atleast compesnate for his high market prices and brand recognition.....he has sat on his ass and decided he wants to build guns instead.

The only larue mount worth owning is the one that no one makes one for. Just try not to destroy your rails by using them.