Larue predatar 7.62 vs others

[elfster1234]

Re: Larue predatar 7.62 vs others

I've said this time and time again. My shootout thread is NOT 100% based upon the rifle, but is a collection of the rifle, shooter, and ammo. How many more times must I say this,,,,, BUT it should give you an idea of what a less $$$ rock river or DPMS can do when put in the right hands... Like totally ignoring everything I just said.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The problem is we are not talking each shooters ability we are talking guns ability. Stop bringing up your shooter test challenge. Gas guns are harder to drive but proves nothing about the guns ability. Even John said that its like shooting a dot drill it's about 90 percent shooter and 10 percent gun and ammo as you can see shooter tendencies in trigge squeeze, grip, anticipation, etc. just like there may be 1 in 10 r700's that will shoot sub 1/2 Moa out of the box, the consistency accross the board isn't there. Where it is with the higher end guns same is said of the gassers.

At 100 yards caliber should not matter a 308 can and should shoot just as well as anything else. Now downrange efficiency and its ability to beat wind is another story but at 100 yards there is no reason a 308 cannot be just as accurate as any other caliber </div></div>

 

[Bruiser_Joe]

Re: Larue predatar 7.62 vs others

I have been building ar's for about 10 years and have learned the lesson of less expensive stuff 1000 times u get what u pay for. Will they run? Probably. Can they be accurate? Yep. Will I ever tell Simone to buy cheap stuff? Nope.

The "others" includes a lot of nice guns for him to choose from including gap, LMT, pof, JP, as well as others. And for the money u get a better gun. We are talking in circles and u r obviously dead set on proving how your gun is every bit as much as a more expensive firearm. More power to ya, I'm not justifying my purchase cuz I'm happy with mine, I would love to add a OBR, MWS, pof, just cuz they are all awesome weapons.

U remind me of all they guys trying to tell us how their rock island 1911 is just as nice as a 3000 dollar Wilson. Shoot and be happy man and spend your money where u want. It doesn't affect me one bit.

 

[elfster1234]

Re: Larue predatar 7.62 vs others

I own a LMT MWS! Why would I knock down my own rifle? I'm not!!! LMT's, OBR's, and GAP's are all fine weapons and attention to detail and build quality is un-matched.... and I own 3 other rock rivers and 2 DPMS rifles. My rock river bull barrel EOP is a shooter and you're right. We are running around in circles here. But more times than not, a rock river or DPMS <span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">with a bull barrel</span></span></span> will be a <span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">shooter out of the gate</span></span></span>. Enough said:

My LMT MWS:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have been building ar's for about 10 years and have learned the lesson of less expensive stuff 1000 times u get what u pay for. Will they run? Probably. Can they be accurate? Yep. Will I ever tell Simone to buy cheap stuff? Nope.

The "others" includes a lot of nice guns for him to choose from including gap, LMT, pof, JP, as well as others. And for the money u get a better gun. We are talking in circles and u r obviously dead set on proving how your gun is every bit as much as a more expensive firearm. More power to ya, I'm not justifying my purchase cuz I'm happy with mine, I would love to add a OBR, MWS, pof, just cuz they are all awesome weapons.

U remind me of all they guys trying to tell us how their rock island 1911 is just as nice as a 3000 dollar Wilson. Shoot and be happy man and spend your money where u want. It doesn't affect me one bit. </div></div>

 

[KYS]

Re: Larue predatar 7.62 vs others

The Mighty Magical Bull Barrel!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It solves all problems. Case closed.

 

[elfster1234]

Re: Larue predatar 7.62 vs others

thank god, you finally got something thru your thick skull!! LOL JK! Even if I got to beat you with my RRA club of a rifle. Barrel heat build up is a serious factor when it come to accuracy.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Mighty Magical Bull Barrel!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It solves all problems. Case closed. </div></div>

 

[p951951951t]

Re: Larue predatar 7.62 vs others

This is a lively thread. I'm a gawd awful shooter and a self professed numbskull and I have rarely ever shot a group larger than MOA with my OBR. If my gun averaged 1 - 1.25moa as you say, I would send it back for a refund.

RRA makes good rifles at a good value, but they aren't even in the same ballpark as an OBR/GAP10/SR25. I shoot .5-.75moa on a normal day, and anything more than that I chalk up to shooters' error.

 

[elfster1234]

Re: Larue predatar 7.62 vs others

I shoot .5moa <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">all day long</span></span> too...... so does the other guy next to me. The ones that don't make the mark I just <span style="color: #FF6666"><span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">"chalk" up</span></span></span> as a "flier" or "sighter" too!(sarcasm if this wasn't thick enough)....

I guess I wasn't making it obvious enough that the whole 1 to 1.25 was mostly based upon shooter error and not what the rifle is able to do.




<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: p951951951t</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is a lively thread. I'm a gawd awful shooter and a self professed numbskull and I have rarely ever shot a group larger than MOA with my OBR. If my gun averaged 1 - 1.25moa as you say, I would send it back for a refund.

RRA makes good rifles at a good value, but they aren't even in the same ballpark as an OBR/GAP10/SR25. I shoot .5-.75moa on a normal day, and anything more than that I chalk up to shooters' error. </div></div>

 

[p951951951t]

Re: Larue predatar 7.62 vs others

No matter what you want to backpedal and say you based it on, you are incorrect.

Sometimes when you find your foot in your mouth, it's best to just have a learning moment and move on....

 

[elfster1234]

Re: Larue predatar 7.62 vs others

right back at ya... you could learn a thing or two son. some times you should just stop spewing a bunch os BS and move on yourself kid.

stop digging your hole.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: p951951951t</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No matter what you want to backpedal and say you based it on, you are incorrect.

Sometimes when you find your foot in your mouth, it's best to just have a learning moment and move on.... </div></div>

 

[calling4life]

Re: Larue predatar 7.62 vs others

Les Baer for the win, 1/2moa guarantee.

 

[p951951951t]

Re: Larue predatar 7.62 vs others

What is it that I should learn? I'm not spewing BS - I'm simply telling you that my data contradicts claims that you are (seemingly) pulling out of your ass regarding the accuracy of a weapon that I have experience with. Even on a bad day, my groups average under 1MOA. If I were to do a statistical analysis of my groups over the time I've been shooting this rifle, the largest portion would fall between .5 and .9 moa, with my best groups landing around .4 and my worst groups maxing out around 1.2.

I can look back at my data and see that. It's true that there is a point of diminishing returns with regards to accuracy potential vs dollars spent, but you don't need to embellish your claims in order to make that point.

Maybe it would help if you take the time to clarify exactly what you mean without being hostile towards anyone else. On one hand I hear you saying that a RRA is going to shoot just as well as an OBR/GAP10/etc, but then you go on to talk about how your "1 - 1.25moa" claim is more about the shooter than the weapon itself. That's where you are losing me. How is the average shooter going to get better accuracy out of a gun with lower accuracy potential? If the shooter can only shoot 1.25" with a GAP-10, he's not going to do better than that with an RRA, barring some miracle 1 in 1000 rifle.



<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: elfster1234</div><div class="ubbcode-body">right back at ya... you could learn a thing or two son. some times you should just stop spewing a bunch os BS and move on yourself kid.

stop digging your hole.
</div></div>

 

[fire fighter]

Re: Larue predatar 7.62 vs others

Just stick to buying the best like I did LaRue OBR 7.62

 

[HotAirBaloonInstructor]

Re: Larue predatar 7.62 vs others

dude, all those suck. red jacket 1000 yard ak!!

 

[Reid Rothchild]

Re: Larue predatar 7.62 vs others

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Legionaire23</div><div class="ubbcode-body">dude, all those suck. red jacket 1000 yard ak!! </div></div>
I'm waiting till the 1200 yard ak comes out. Then it's mine.

 

[L3IRQ]

Re: Larue predatar 7.62 vs others

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Reid Rothchild</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Legionaire23</div><div class="ubbcode-body">dude, all those suck. red jacket 1000 yard ak!! </div></div>
I'm waiting till the 1200 yard ak comes out. Then it's mine. </div></div>

Only if they can mate it to a choate stock.

 

[OldGuardShooter]

Re: Larue predatar 7.62 vs others

Elf bro i think what they are trying to say is while the RRA rifle or DPMS Might get lucky with a solid sub moa gun with a luck of the draw because its a mass produced rifle. The Gap and LaRue has more Attention to detail while being made. So really while you "Might get lucky and get a good one" vs you are going to have a higher chance at getting a very att to detail with one of the Gap's or OBR's . And while your shoot out was really cool and a lot of guys enjoyed doing it . It still really comes down to did those guys get a lucky DPMS or RRA vs did the guys that didn't shot as well get a Att to Detail LaRue or GAP but maybe were not as good of a shooter as the other guys. I might be wrong i didn't read all 3 pages just the first two but Bigjoe and you are both good people in my book and i hate seeing buddies bicker over something i don't think they are seeing eye to eye on.
and for the Cat that started this thread . I could have bought any Gas Gun made Gap 10 , OBR , LMT ect i decided while the LMT might be a fraction less of a shooter as the Gap i think more on par with the OBR i went with the LMT because i liked that i could change the barrel on the fly and change out .cal's . Plus a huge thank you to Elf for showing me that Kentucky Gun Co had it on sale for 2200 bucks i got the last 16 inch CL. They tend to have good prices every few weeks on them.

Not taking anything from the GAP or the OBR as i spoke with both companies on the phone and was a half a second away from buying each of them. They both had great customer service and were very helpful with answering questions and helping me decided on what build if i went with one.

 

[shorse]

Re: Larue predatar 7.62 vs others

Predatobr...hands down
Those things flat out hammer. OBR's do to, but they're a bit chubby for anything besides prone work

 

[Sportin Wood]

Re: Larue predatar 7.62 vs others

So by the time the neighbors saw me creeping around by their lake and their duck blind, I ran swiftly with my mall ninja skills and they didn't see me run around them and dissapear into the afternoon sun. Little did they know I pissed in their duck blind, but I may go over and ask permission to hunt out of it. I just wish the wife inside was undressing while I was watchning her...

 

[VJJPunisher]

Re: Larue predatar 7.62 vs others

I can shoot hot groups into my fleshlight all day long, will post pics if you want so to as not just talk the talk.

can i come over and hit that spliff you be smokin on?

 

[sr15match]

Re: Larue predatar 7.62 vs others

Step away from the keyboard and know when to quite....... Last word? Yeah right.

 

[KYS]

Re: Larue predatar 7.62 vs others

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: elfster1234</div><div class="ubbcode-body">thank god, you finally got something thru your thick skull!! LOL JK! Even if I got to beat you with my RRA club of a rifle. Barrel heat build up is a serious factor when it come to accuracy.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Mighty Magical Bull Barrel!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It solves all problems. Case closed. </div></div> </div></div>

I was being sarcastic....... bull barrels are over hyped.

 

[DP425]

Re: Larue predatar 7.62 vs others

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Middle one

</div></div>

NICE tool box!!!!

 

[Mumbles]

Re: Larue predatar 7.62 vs others

There's no drama like Hide drama. Makes for fun reading though.

Who is this Elfster guy? Big Joe's kind of a known quantity here. Awesome picture in your sigline though. You take that before or after a big DA hit?

 

[HotAirBaloonInstructor]

Re: Larue predatar 7.62 vs others

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mumbles</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There's no drama like Hide drama. Makes for fun reading though.

Who is this Elfster guy? Big Joe's kind of a known quantity here. Awesome picture in your sigline though. You take that before or after a big DA hit?</div></div>

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I'm going to have a fucking aneurism that's so funny!!!!!! lol please dont drag me into this.

 

[DP425]

Re: Larue predatar 7.62 vs others

There is a reason Remington and DPMS didn't get the SASS contract... Reliability and repeatable accuracy were failings for both.

 

[InkedIan]

Re: Larue predatar 7.62 vs others

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DP425</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is a reason Remington and DPMS didn't get the SASS contract... Reliability and repeatable accuracy were failings for both. </div></div>

More like they probably weren't the lowest bidder and the CEO didn't suck officer dick... The military's accuracy standards for small arms of any type aren't really high... Wait, Remington did get the Army's sniper rifle contract sooooo I guess they bob on that nob.

 

[DP425]

Re: Larue predatar 7.62 vs others

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: InkedIan</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DP425</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is a reason Remington and DPMS didn't get the SASS contract... Reliability and repeatable accuracy were failings for both. </div></div>

More like they probably weren't the lowest bidder and the CEO didn't suck officer dick... The military's accuracy standards for small arms of any type aren't really high... Wait, Remington did get the Army's sniper rifle contract sooooo I guess they bob on that nob. </div></div>


Really? Weren't the lowest bidder? Do you know anything of how the competition went? They didn't even make it to bidding. They were bounced out because they didn't meet required accuracy and durability standards as outlined in the product request.

Not to mention... you seriously think DPMS and Remington actually would have had a more expensive product than KAC? What are you smoking???? I'm not even a very big fan of KAC... but you'd seriously have to have your head inserted into your 5th point of contact to think their price was the lowest... or that DPMS or Remington could out perform them on a platform that is their bread and butter... in production longer than the current Armalite has been producing the AR-10 (which, by the way... they used a KAC SR-25 for testing and design when working on the current AR-10). KAC made the AR-10 platform what it is today... and they are the only manufacture with a sizeable and long standing history of military service- which no doubt helped to refine their design.


Remington took the contract for the XM2010 because no one other than, I believe Crane had anything to offer that would meet the Army's needs and come in at a reasonable price point. By allowing Remington to buy back all of the parts pulled from the receiver, that pushed the total program costs even lower- it is almost a certainty that Crane would not have done this.

Oh and what do you call a "high" accuracy standard... The CSASS request shows a requirement of 3/4moa... Pretty respectable on a semi-auto. I agree that a requirement of a "minimum 1moa" is a little loose for the M2010- but then again, the M24 had the same requirement and consistently produced 3/4 moa with 118LR.

 

[K_4c]

Re: Larue predatar 7.62 vs others

I posted these initial results awhile back (back when I first got my OBR)...
I set up shop on a cold/windy day.... 200 meters to target.

100 meters

I don't spend much time punching paper... I confirm my zero and then shoot for distance.... but the few times I have shot for groups, .75 moa or better are common results.

I have an LMT too... it shoots well but I prefer my OBR any day of the week for LR duties.

 

[tylerw02]

Re: Larue predatar 7.62 vs others

In 0bama voice, "You didn't shoot that!" No way an OBR shoots that good, its not a RRA that shoots BETTER and costs half as much. Only RRA shoots that good

Seriously good shooting, man! That OBR of yours flat out shoots! I was impressed with those groups thinking they were 100 yards---very impressed once I realized you said 200m. Reliable semi-autos just aren't supposed to be that accurate!

 

[-Nick-]

Re: Larue predatar 7.62 vs others

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: K_4c</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

</div></div>

Is that your backyard? If so... Lucky bastard... lol

 

[K_4c]

Re: Larue predatar 7.62 vs others

one of my close friends place... for Nebraska.... that area is majestic (ha).

caught a lot of nice bass out of his ponds too.... and dove season is a riot (they don't cut their hemp patches).

 

[-Nick-]

Re: Larue predatar 7.62 vs others

It definitely looks like a nice peaceful area for shooting...

 

[InkedIan]

Re: Larue predatar 7.62 vs others

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DP425</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: InkedIan</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DP425</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is a reason Remington and DPMS didn't get the SASS contract... Reliability and repeatable accuracy were failings for both. </div></div>

More like they probably weren't the lowest bidder and the CEO didn't suck officer dick... The military's accuracy standards for small arms of any type aren't really high... Wait, Remington did get the Army's sniper rifle contract sooooo I guess they bob on that nob. </div></div>


Really? Weren't the lowest bidder? Do you know anything of how the competition went? They didn't even make it to bidding. They were bounced out because they didn't meet required accuracy and durability standards as outlined in the product request.

Not to mention... you seriously think DPMS and Remington actually would have had a more expensive product than KAC? What are you smoking???? I'm not even a very big fan of KAC... but you'd seriously have to have your head inserted into your 5th point of contact to think their price was the lowest... or that DPMS or Remington could out perform them on a platform that is their bread and butter... in production longer than the current Armalite has been producing the AR-10 (which, by the way... they used a KAC SR-25 for testing and design when working on the current AR-10). KAC made the AR-10 platform what it is today... and they are the only manufacture with a sizeable and long standing history of military service- which no doubt helped to refine their design.


Remington took the contract for the XM2010 because no one other than, I believe Crane had anything to offer that would meet the Army's needs and come in at a reasonable price point. By allowing Remington to buy back all of the parts pulled from the receiver, that pushed the total program costs even lower- it is almost a certainty that Crane would not have done this.

Oh and what do you call a "high" accuracy standard... The CSASS request shows a requirement of 3/4moa... Pretty respectable on a semi-auto. I agree that a requirement of a "minimum 1moa" is a little loose for the M2010- but then again, the M24 had the same requirement and consistently produced 3/4 moa with 118LR. </div></div>

Sorry! I hate getting off subject but I would like to retort.


Chill, I was partly joking. The lowest bidder nooooo probably not, but sucking D and payoffs to get the contract I guarantee thats true. The Marines Corps paid 8.3 million for 803 M110 rifles... Really $10,336 per rifle??? Because it's the best all around semi-auto 308 AR available??? Nooooooo.... Same with Remingtons xm2010, 28 million for 2,500 rifles AND they chose the 300 win mag over the 338 Lapua! WTF... $11,200 dollars for a rifle that a $1800 Savage 110BA in 338l could more than likely out perform.... Using military contracts as a test of quality is usually a joke with some exceptions... That's why I laugh when people use mil-spec to reference toughness. I know the shit I was issued and tested wasn't the latest or greatest.

 

[tylerw02]

Re: Larue predatar 7.62 vs others

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: InkedIan</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> WTF... $11,200 dollars for a rifle that a $1800 Savage 110BA in 338l could more than likely out perform...</div></div>

You base this on what?


Next you'll tell us the SWFA SS should have beat the S&B 5-25x for the PSR contract because it could outperform it at a lower price.

 

[InkedIan]

Re: Larue predatar 7.62 vs others

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: InkedIan</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> WTF... $11,200 dollars for a rifle that a $1800 Savage 110BA in 338l could more than likely out perform...</div></div>

You base this on what?


Next you'll tell us the SWFA SS should have beat the S&B 5-25x for the PSR contract because it could outperform it at a lower price. </div></div>


Noooo, there are exception to every rule man... Also, glass and rifles are 2 very different beasts.

The 338 lapua does out perform the 300 win mag in every way. As far the 110BA being a better rifle I can't say one way or another but I doubt it's a $10000 difference....

 

[p951951951t]

Re: Larue predatar 7.62 vs others

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: InkedIan</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: InkedIan</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> WTF... $11,200 dollars for a rifle that a $1800 Savage 110BA in 338l could more than likely out perform...</div></div>

You base this on what?


Next you'll tell us the SWFA SS should have beat the S&B 5-25x for the PSR contract because it could outperform it at a lower price. </div></div>


Noooo, there are exception to every rule man... Also, glass and rifles are 2 very different beasts.

The 338 lapua does out perform the 300 win mag in every way. As far the 110BA being a better rifle I can't say one way or another but I doubt it's a $10000 difference.... </div></div>

That 10000 per rifle is a lot more than just the rifle. Have you ever looked at everything that comes in a M110 deployment kit? It's a lot of gear. I would have to see a breakdown of what they are actually purchasing before I could make a judgement about the cost.

 

[tylerw02]

Re: Larue predatar 7.62 vs others

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: InkedIan</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: InkedIan</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> WTF... $11,200 dollars for a rifle that a $1800 Savage 110BA in 338l could more than likely out perform...</div></div>

You base this on what?


Next you'll tell us the SWFA SS should have beat the S&B 5-25x for the PSR contract because it could outperform it at a lower price. </div></div>


Noooo, there are exception to every rule man... Also, glass and rifles are 2 very different beasts.

The 338 lapua does out perform the 300 win mag in every way. As far the 110BA being a better rifle I can't say one way or another but I doubt it's a $10000 difference.... </div></div>

Outperforms it in what way? Barrel life? Training cost? Lots of variables. And guess what? The rifle isn't SOLELY the cartridge. Furthermore, the price the military pays isn't just buying a cardboard box with a rifle inside. There is far more to it than you understand.

 

[InkedIan]

Re: Larue predatar 7.62 vs others

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: p951951951t</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: InkedIan</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: InkedIan</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> WTF... $11,200 dollars for a rifle that a $1800 Savage 110BA in 338l could more than likely out perform...</div></div>

You base this on what?


Next you'll tell us the SWFA SS should have beat the S&B 5-25x for the PSR contract because it could outperform it at a lower price. </div></div>


Noooo, there are exception to every rule man... Also, glass and rifles are 2 very different beasts.

The 338 lapua does out perform the 300 win mag in every way. As far the 110BA being a better rifle I can't say one way or another but I doubt it's a $10000 difference.... </div></div>

That 10000 per rifle is a lot more than just the rifle. Have you ever looked at everything that comes in a M110 deployment kit? It's a lot of gear. I would have to see a breakdown of what they are actually purchasing before I could make a judgement about the cost. </div></div>

Huh? You quoted comments on the xm-2010. The contract costs I quoted were for the rifles themselves. I'm sure the goodies came at an extra cost but that wasn't mentioned so who knows.....

 

[InkedIan]

Re: Larue predatar 7.62 vs others

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: InkedIan</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: InkedIan</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> WTF... $11,200 dollars for a rifle that a $1800 Savage 110BA in 338l could more than likely out perform...</div></div>

You base this on what?


Next you'll tell us the SWFA SS should have beat the S&B 5-25x for the PSR contract because it could outperform it at a lower price. </div></div>


Noooo, there are exception to every rule man... Also, glass and rifles are 2 very different beasts.

The 338 lapua does out perform the 300 win mag in every way. As far the 110BA being a better rifle I can't say one way or another but I doubt it's a $10000 difference.... </div></div>

Outperforms it in what way? Barrel life? Training cost? Lots of variables. And guess what? The rifle isn't SOLELY the cartridge. Furthermore, the price the military pays isn't just buying a cardboard box with a rifle inside. There is far more to it than you understand. </div></div>

Don't be thick headed man... I'm not saying one rifle is any better than the other... It's was used as an example to show they are over paying for equipment and is not always based on actual performance. Also, the military isn't paying a manufacturer for training cost... I do have an idea about it because I lived it for 5 years...

 

[tylerw02]

Re: Larue predatar 7.62 vs others

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: InkedIan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Huh? You quoted comments on the xm-2010. The contract costs I quoted were for the rifles themselves. I'm sure the goodies came at an extra cost but that wasn't mentioned so who knows..... </div></div>

You're sure the "goodies" cost more, but who knows?

The XM2010 is a higher quality rifle than the Savage. Read the release from the army. It has a much better designed chassis,runs AI magazines, includes rails, a mounted Leupold 6.5-20x FFP locking turret optic, an AAC suppressor, case, maintenance kit, etc.

Not only does a company have to produce a product that meets military requirements, it must also have a logistics system to provide enough units within a specific time-frame, replacement parts supply chain, etc.

You're the one being thick-headed comparing apples to oranges. DPMS, Rock River, Bushmaster just aren't up to par with a Knights, GAP, or LaRue. Its a fact. Just like the boxed up Savage BA (what a ridiculous name) isn't comparable to the XM2010.

It costs to retrain people. Nowhere did I insinuate the military pays the manufacturer. But indeed, it costs more money to shoot .338 LM than to shoot .300 Win. That's a fact. That is why the .338 Lapua doesn't "outperform" the .300 in every way.

 

[InkedIan]

Re: Larue predatar 7.62 vs others

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: InkedIan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Huh? You quoted comments on the xm-2010. The contract costs I quoted were for the rifles themselves. I'm sure the goodies came at an extra cost but that wasn't mentioned so who knows..... </div></div>

You're sure the "goodies" cost more, but who knows?

The XM2010 is a higher quality rifle than the Savage. Read the release from the army. It has a much better designed chassis,runs AI magazines, includes rails, a mounted Leupold 6.5-20x FFP locking turret optic, an AAC suppressor, case, maintenance kit, etc.

Not only does a company have to produce a product that meets military requirements, it must also have a logistics system to provide enough units within a specific time-frame, replacement parts supply chain, etc.

You're the one being thick-headed comparing apples to oranges. DPMS, Rock River, Bushmaster just aren't up to par with a Knights, GAP, or LaRue. Its a fact. Just like the boxed up Savage BA (what a ridiculous name) isn't comparable to the XM2010 </div></div>

You really think leupold, pelican, and AI sub-contracted through remington so they could make the extra profit??(AAC is owned by remington) Doubt it, but hey i'm not above admitting when i'm wrong... Prove it... I'm thinking someone might be a fanboy... Don't start that remmy verses savage bs because that beating a dead horse... Again you missed my point.

 

[p951951951t]

Re: Larue predatar 7.62 vs others

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: InkedIan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Huh? You quoted comments on the xm-2010. The contract costs I quoted were for the rifles themselves. I'm sure the goodies came at an extra cost but that wasn't mentioned so who knows..... </div></div>

Are you sure about that? Previously you mentioned the cost of M110 in the same light, so I was pointing out all of the things associated with the M110 that you left out.

The poster above is right - there are lots of hidden costs associated with getting a large military contract that are built into the price. A company has to commit to building and supporting that weapon in volume for the life of the contract. If savage were going to sell their rifle to the military the same way KAC does the M110, the cost would probably be 2-3x what your street price is.

 

[InkedIan]

Re: Larue predatar 7.62 vs others

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
It costs to retrain people. Nowhere did I insinuate the military pays the manufacturer. But indeed, it costs more money to shoot .338 LM than to shoot .300 Win. That's a fact. That is why the .338 Lapua doesn't "outperform" the .300 in every way. </div></div>

You added training to the cost of the rifle when you said i didn't account for it and when the military contracts Lake City/Federal to make the ammo the cost difference between the 300win mag and the 338 lapua would be very small for a big difference in performance....

 

[tylerw02]

Re: Larue predatar 7.62 vs others

Dude, you don't know when to give up.

Let's say Savage made a large contract for their piece of shit .338 Lapua.

Let's say its a $1500 rifle.

Add a $2500 scope.

Add a $250 mount.

Add a $200 case.

Add a $200 maintenance kit.

Add a $2000 suppressor.

Add a $200 brake/mount.

Add a $2500 chassis system.

Add the cost of R&D, add the cost of running the trials, add the cost of creating a supply chain, add the cost of the salary of dedicated liaisons. Then how much do you think that Savage would cost?


Rule number 1....when you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.

 

[InkedIan]

Re: Larue predatar 7.62 vs others

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: p951951951t</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: InkedIan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Huh? You quoted comments on the xm-2010. The contract costs I quoted were for the rifles themselves. I'm sure the goodies came at an extra cost but that wasn't mentioned so who knows..... </div></div>

Are you sure about that? Previously you mentioned the cost of M110 in the same light, so I was pointing out all of the things associated with the M110 that you left out.

The poster above is right - there are lots of hidden costs associated with getting a large military contract that are built into the price. A company has to commit to building and supporting that weapon in volume for the life of the contract. If savage were going to sell their rifle to the military the same way KAC does the M110, the cost would probably be 2-3x what your street price is.

</div></div>

That maybe true for the army. I know the Marine Corps does maintance in house unless that's changed since I got out. Even at 3 times the cost that's $5,400...

 

[tylerw02]

Re: Larue predatar 7.62 vs others

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: InkedIan</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: p951951951t</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: InkedIan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Huh? You quoted comments on the xm-2010. The contract costs I quoted were for the rifles themselves. I'm sure the goodies came at an extra cost but that wasn't mentioned so who knows..... </div></div>

Are you sure about that? Previously you mentioned the cost of M110 in the same light, so I was pointing out all of the things associated with the M110 that you left out.

The poster above is right - there are lots of hidden costs associated with getting a large military contract that are built into the price. A company has to commit to building and supporting that weapon in volume for the life of the contract. If savage were going to sell their rifle to the military the same way KAC does the M110, the cost would probably be 2-3x what your street price is.

</div></div>

That maybe true for the army. I know the Marine Corps does maintance in house unless that's changed since I got out. Even at 3 times the cost that's $5,400... </div></div>

Which still doesn't include optics, the chassis, the case, the maintenance kit, the suppressor, the brake, etc.

 

[InkedIan]

Re: Larue predatar 7.62 vs others

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dude, you don't know when to give up.

Let's say Savage made a large contract for their piece of shit .338 Lapua.

Let's say its a $1500 rifle.

Add a $2500 scope.

Add a $250 mount.

Add a $200 case.

Add a $200 maintenance kit.

Add a $2000 suppressor.

Add a $200 brake/mount.

Add a $2500 chassis system.

Add the cost of R&D, add the cost of running the trials, add the cost of creating a supply chain, add the cost of the salary of dedicated liaisons. Then how much do you think that Savage would cost?


Rule number 1....when you find yourself in a hole, stop digging. </div></div>


Wow, I hope you realize your making yourself look dumb.... Please reread everything I said.

 

[tylerw02]

Re: Larue predatar 7.62 vs others

Looks a lot like a $1500 Savage to me. Yep.

 

[InkedIan]

Re: Larue predatar 7.62 vs others

I will gladly concede what turned into a dumb arguement so we can stop cloging this poor guys thread. I just hope I got my point across....

 

[InkedIan]

Re: Larue predatar 7.62 vs others

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: InkedIan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Huh? You quoted comments on the xm-2010. The contract costs I quoted were for the rifles themselves. I'm sure the goodies came at an extra cost but that wasn't mentioned so who knows..... </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: InkedIan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You really think leupold, pelican, and AI sub-contracted through remington so they could make the extra profit??(AAC is owned by remington) Doubt it, but hey i'm not above admitting when i'm wrong... Prove it... I'm thinking someone might be a fanboy... Don't start that remmy verses savage bs because that beating a dead horse... Again you missed my point.

</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Looks a lot like a $1500 Savage to me. Yep. </div></div>

Dumb da da da dumb.... Ok now i'm done