Rifle Scopes Leupold Mark 4HD

#251
I wonder how that internal level will effect legality in some restrictive states. Idaho allows illumination, no electronic devices attached to the optic. I don't think they are the only state with that restriction. I called them about the internal HUD on the Veracity PH, they said that clearly is a violation.

I suppose it would be hard to tell by looking at it. Just an electronic level definitely seems to be a bit of a grey area. Electronics are becoming so much more commonplace, hopefully our Fish & Game will lighten up a bit.
 
#252
Birddog6424 said:
I wonder how that internal level will effect legality in some restrictive states. Idaho allows illumination, no electronic devices attached to the optic. I don't think they are the only state with that restriction. I called them about the internal HUD on the Veracity PH, they said that clearly is a violation.

I suppose it would be hard to tell by looking at it. Just an electronic level definitely seems to be a bit of a grey area. Electronics are becoming so much more commonplace, hopefully our Fish & Game will lighten up a bit.
Click to expand...
Do they allow handheld LRFs? How about if they are attached to the rifle on a diving board? (That’s not attached to the scope, just the rings). Or in a bino? Kestrel? Can you transmit dope to a E-dope card and hang it off your pic rail?

Surprised they allow optics at all.

Soon the regs will read, “Only spears allowed. No atlatls.”
 
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#253
carbonbased said:
Do they allow handheld LRFs? How about if they are attached to the rifle on a diving board? (That’s not attached to the scope, just the rings). Or in a bino? Kestrel? Can you transmit dope to a E-dope card and hang it off your pic rail?

Surprised they allow optics at all.

Soon the regs will read, “Only spears allowed. No atlatls.”
Click to expand...

The atlatl season is earlier in the year. Right after slingshot season.

Idaho is very restrictive. The laser can't be attached to the rifle. Not sure on the Ecard, but I doubt it. You can use all the technology for varmints, but not regular game.

I kinda see where they are coming from. "Fair chase" needs to be a thing. We as hunters have extended our range and effectiveness significantly since I began hunting. It's tough to say where we should draw the line.
 
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#254
Birddog6424 said:
The atlatl season is earlier in the year. Right after slingshot season.

Idaho is very restrictive. The laser can't be attached to the rifle. Not sure on the Ecard, but I doubt it. You can use all the technology for varmints, but not regular game.

I kinda see where they are coming from. "Fair chase" needs to be a thing. We as hunters have extended our range and effectiveness significantly since I began hunting. It's tough to say where we should draw the line.
Click to expand...

Fair chase is stupid and arbitrary.

Fish and game shouldn't sell tags if they don't want the animals dead.

What fish and game should do is focus on fixing their massive fuck up with the wolves as this would boost the elk numbers far beyond what any of their stupid rules will do.

Oh, and they should try to avoid drowning an entire elk herd in the Dworshak reservoir while trying to count them.

Sry, fish and game and I don't see eye to eye.
 
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#255
MK20 said:
Fair chase is stupid and arbitrary.

Fish and game shouldn't sell tags if they don't want the animals dead.

What fish and game should do is focus on fixing their massive fuck up with the wolves as this would boost the elk numbers far beyond what any of their stupid rules will do.

Oh, and they should try to avoid drowning an entire elk herd in the Dworshak reservoir while trying to count them.

Sry, fish and game and I don't see eye to eye.
Click to expand...

Me neither. Don't even get me started on wolves. I attended those reintroduction meetings. Their minds were already made up. They lied right to our faces.
 
#256
MK20 said:
Fair chase is stupid and arbitrary.

Fish and game shouldn't sell tags if they don't want the animals dead.
Click to expand...
If every tag were any weapon with no restrictions, there would be maybe 1/5 the current opportunity to get into the field. If anything, more states need to further restrict the technology allowed, especially for muzzleloader and archery hunts. If success rates go up, tag allotments will go down.

Considering tag demand already far exceeds supply in every western state, and urbanization won’t be stopped any time soon, AND predators are leaving a larger imprint (mostly due to clueless city-dwellers), it’s imperative agencies continue to strike a balance between opportunity, success, and trophy quality.
 
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#257
HaydenLane said:
If every tag were any weapon with no restrictions, there would be maybe 1/5 the current opportunity to get into the field. If anything, more states need to further restrict the technology allowed, especially for muzzleloader and archery hunts. If success rates go up, tag allotments will go down.

Considering tag demand already far exceeds supply in every western state, and urbanization won’t be stopped any time soon, AND predators are leaving a larger imprint (mostly due to clueless city-dwellers), it’s imperative agencies continue to strike a balance between opportunity, success, and trophy quality.
Click to expand...


Or we could just get rid of the wolves that have reduced elk populations in places like Salmon, ID from over 20K to under 2K since introduction.

That might work.
 
#258
HaydenLane said:
If every tag were any weapon with no restrictions, there would be maybe 1/5 the current opportunity to get into the field. If anything, more states need to further restrict the technology allowed, especially for muzzleloader and archery hunts. If success rates go up, tag allotments will go down.

Considering tag demand already far exceeds supply in every western state, and urbanization won’t be stopped any time soon, AND predators are leaving a larger imprint (mostly due to clueless city-dwellers), it’s imperative agencies continue to strike a balance between opportunity, success, and trophy quality.
Click to expand...

That's what muzzle loader and archery seasons are for.
In my western state I can go buy elk and deer tags over the counter. Only drawings are for special areas and species like sheep, moose, goat, etc.


What fucked it up for me was TV shows. I used to apply for a drawing that was 25 tags, and had 3-5000 people apply. After some ditzy blonde shot an elk and told everyone where it was on YouTube, there were over 50000 applicants the next year.


Your argument might be valid when I quit hitting deer and elk on the highways. But since I still have to stop and let hundreds of animals cross the road, I'm ok with shooting a few more. (Our numbers are growing because despite what you see on YouTube, most of the younger generation isn't hunting).



MK20 said:
Or we could just get rid of the wolves that have reduced elk populations in places like Salmon, ID from over 20K to under 2K since introduction.

That might work.
Click to expand...

No, that makes sense. Fish and game is still a government agency. They're only allowed to do as they're told by a politician.


If they had any idea how many wolves are mistaken as coyotes and dropped, they would have a hell of a pissy fit.
 
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#259
It’s funny how far we can go off topic over whether ole green pants would frown upon an additional feature of an illuminated reticle that probably doesn’t even work that well and probably wouldn’t know it’s even there unless you told him. Who gives a shit?
 
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#260
chevy_man said:
That's what muzzle loader and archery seasons are for.
In my western state I can go buy elk and deer tags over the counter. Only drawings are for special areas and species like sheep, moose, goat, etc.


What fucked it up for me was TV shows. I used to apply for a drawing that was 25 tags, and had 3-5000 people apply. After some ditzy blonde shot an elk and told everyone where it was on YouTube, there were over 50000 applicants the next year.


Your argument might be valid when I quit hitting deer and elk on the highways. But since I still have to stop and let hundreds of animals cross the road, I'm ok with shooting a few more. (Our numbers are growing because despite what you see on YouTube, most of the younger generation isn't hunting).





No, that makes sense. Fish and game is still a government agency. They're only allowed to do as they're told by a politician.


If they had any idea how many wolves are mistaken as coyotes and dropped, they would have a hell of a pissy fit.
Click to expand...

If they had any idea how many wolves were dropped because they ran into someone with a gun they would have a pissy fit. 🤣

Not that I would know anything about that 🙄
 
Last edited:
#263
When fish and game restricts the ability of state resident hunters, while selling piles of tags to out of state hunters because they can charge a bunch of money, it makes me believe they are not acting in the interests of the residents of the state.

Especially when they are appeasing the woke commies by instituting policies that severely degrade the elk and deer population of the state.
 
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#267
chevy_man said:
Your argument might be valid when I quit hitting deer and elk on the highways. But since I still have to stop and let hundreds of animals cross the road, I'm ok with shooting a few more. (Our numbers are growing because despite what you see on YouTube, most of the younger generation isn't hunting).
Click to expand...
You should be careful, that’s starting to sound a lot like a pro-wolf argument.

People hit deer every year in states where even residents aren’t guaranteed annual tags. It means nothing.

I’ve done my part in derailing this thread, time to bow out.
 
#268
Back on the scopes I looked at one of the 1-4.5 Lpvo's it had the BDC reticle i am going to get one with the TMR. Been using the !.5-4 patrol for years in indoor and outdoor matches. Have wanted to upgrade but I mainly use it as a red dot with magnification, so never felt the need for a 1-6,8,10. This one is a big improvement nice field of view at 1 power, seems to be close to an actual 1 also. At 4.5 it was nice also the glass was really good nice and clear I was outside with a slight overcast. Dot is nice and bright reticle may be a little thick but that never bothered me on the old one actually made it fast to get on target.
 
#270
Birddog6424 said:
I wonder how that internal level will effect legality in some restrictive states. Idaho allows illumination, no electronic devices attached to the optic. I don't think they are the only state with that restriction. I called them about the internal HUD on the Veracity PH, they said that clearly is a violation.

I suppose it would be hard to tell by looking at it. Just an electronic level definitely seems to be a bit of a grey area. Electronics are becoming so much more commonplace, hopefully our Fish & Game will lighten up a bit.
Click to expand...
Very confident Idaho won’t allow the level. I went and asked about a triggercam this year and they said no
 
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#271
carbonbased said:
Do they allow handheld LRFs? How about if they are attached to the rifle on a diving board? (That’s not attached to the scope, just the rings). Or in a bino? Kestrel? Can you transmit dope to a E-dope card and hang it off your pic rail?

Surprised they allow optics at all.

Soon the regs will read, “Only spears allowed. No atlatls.”
Click to expand...
Nothing electronic attached to the firearm is how they interpret it. All other electronics are fine.
 
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#274
carbonbased said:
FFS.

Is the new name of Idaho something like Calidaho? Or Connectidaho? Or Idassachusetts???
Click to expand...
They’ve always had pretty restrictive laws regarding weapons for hunting. You couldn’t have mechanical broadheads until last year. Muzzle loaders are restricted to basically mid 1800s technology and no scopes are allowed. Rifles have to be under 16 pounds too
 
#276
I enjoy most of the laws that restrict technology.

I hunt over my pointing dogs with a 12 or 20 gauge side by side. Bow hunt with a Black Widow 54lb recurve, and fly fish. I think the challenge is part of the fun.

I dont hear too many folks complain about it here. Unrestricted Muzzleloaders shoot too far. Modern compound bows are ridiculous, and without a 16 pound weight restriction, guys would be road hunting with ridiculous boomers and flinging one mile shots.

Most restrictions are just fine to me. Getting compared to California riles me up a bit though, we've had our fill of them moving here..
 
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#278
Birddog6424 said:
I enjoy most of the laws that restrict technology.

I hunt over my pointing dogs with a 12 or 20 gauge side by side. Bow hunt with a Black Widow 54lb recurve, and fly fish. I think the challenge is part of the fun.

I dont hear too many folks complain about it here. Unrestricted Muzzleloaders shoot too far. Modern compound bows are ridiculous, and without a 16 pound weight restriction, guys would be road hunting with ridiculous boomers and flinging one mile shots.

Most restrictions are just fine to me. Getting compared to California riles me up a bit though, we've had our fill of them moving here..
Click to expand...
I'm in your boat. I'll just say this:
Hunting should be hunting and shooting should be shooting.
 
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#279
So I just received my 2.5-10 Mark 4 HD. Watch what you order fellas. Apparently having a parallax adjustment is an option and not standard…anyone want to buy a brand new scope? FML
 
#281
wpeach1912 said:
Nothing electronic attached to the firearm is how they interpret it. All other electronics are fine.
Click to expand...
So strange. There is precious little difference between having a LRF bino on your waist vs. a WMLRF. I could see banning all electronic stuff, but the distinction they made is pretty fine.

You can make an argument that not having an easy ranging solution causes a ton of bad shots and wounded animals 🤷‍♂️

Birddog6424 said:
Most restrictions are just fine to me. Getting compared to California riles me up a bit though, we've had our fill of them moving here..
Click to expand...
Restrictions can be good and bad. It’s all about perspective. Those Cali folk just like different restrictions…that I find stooopid.

Burdy said:
I'm in your boat. I'll just say this:
Hunting should be hunting and shooting should be shooting.
Click to expand...
I agree. I’m of a mind that one should get as close as possible to the animal (sub 400yds, probably sub 300). Easier to hit in the right spot for a quick kill and it gives the animal a darn chance to detect you. Fair chase and all that. No drones, no NV/Thermal unless shooting varmints like coyotes. No calling in air strikes lol.

But like I mentioned, some restrictions are fairly idiotic. A level in the scope…I have a VX-6hd with one and the only thing it’s good for is when mounting it in rings. It’s obnoxious otherwise and blinks constantly when not perfectly level.

And (if your reticle is plum to gravity) I’m guessing not having one’s rifle level when actually shooting is less common than one would think.

But not mounting the reticle plum to gravity, however, is as common as the day is long, and that can cause more poor shots and wounding.

Not well thought out restrictions can have unintended consequences.
 
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#285
MK20 said:
So? Stop trying to sell or more likely scam on here without a supporter account. Consider this your free warning.
Click to expand...
Not really trying to sell and definitely not trying to scam. The offer to sell was more a joke than anything. I’ve been a member on here for a long time and I don’t have a selling account because I don’t sell a lot of stuff. I have bought several things in here over the years with no issues and there are a bunch of members on here that I know personally and have for years. I was simply telling people on here that they need to be certain of which model they are buying before they get theirs in and it isn’t what they thought. If I get kicked for trying to help people learn from my mistake, so be it.
 
#286
beetroot said:
Where have you seen a parallax model?
I thought the 1-4 and 2.5-10 models were all fixed?
Click to expand...
Looks like that may be the case. All my other older Mark 4 scopes have parallax adjustment and I never considered that it wouldn’t be offered on the new ones. Like I said, I hope others learn from my mistake and if that feature is important to them, pick a different model.
 
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#287
Jfservices said:
Not really trying to sell and definitely not trying to scam. The offer to sell was more a joke than anything. I’ve been a member on here for a long time and I don’t have a selling account because I don’t sell a lot of stuff. I have bought several things in here over the years with no issues and there are a bunch of members on here that I know personally and have for years. I was simply telling people on here that they need to be certain of which model they are buying before they get theirs in and it isn’t what they thought. If I get kicked for trying to help people learn from my mistake, so be it.
Click to expand...

Ok. But your account is pretty inactive and when you show up and start posting a scope for sale with no supporter account, that screams scammer these days around here. No offense meant.
 
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#289
MK20 said:
Ok. But your account is pretty inactive and when you show up and start posting a scope for sale with no supporter account, that screams scammer these days around here. No offense meant.
Click to expand...
I get it. Those d bags are everywhere now. Honestly, that’s why I don’t do a lot of individual to individual commerce where I can’t meet face to face. I just got excited AF about the relaunch of a line of scopes I love with nicer glass and FFP and never considered that I should confirm a feature that is widely standard on this type of scope and with the heritage behind this one. I even had an ARMS 35 QD mount with track mount rings and diving board ready for it for a semi-nostalgic touch.
 
#291
UpSideDown said:
None of the 2.5-10 MK4HD’s have parallax. The side knob on some of them is illumination control.
Click to expand...
Yea mine is illuminated TMR. I looked at the leupold website before I requested one back in January. When you click on the 2.5-10 on their website, there are a bunch of stock photos of other models that have it and nothing specified clearly that it didn’t have it. Between then and now, someone actually left a one star review because of the lack of that feature. I wish I would have seen it before mine shipped. It does say “side focus” on the icon of the other models after closer inspection. Just to reiterate to everyone, I’m not bashing leupold or trying to say I got screwed. I’m just bringing this to everyone’s attention that didn’t already know. Other than the lack of that one feature, this scope is nice. Glass is clear, it’s really light weight and overall a solid scope just not perfect for my application.
 
#292
Jfservices said:
Yea mine is illuminated TMR. I looked at the leupold website before I requested one back in January. When you click on the 2.5-10 on their website, there are a bunch of stock photos of other models that have it and nothing specified clearly that it didn’t have it. Between then and now, someone actually left a one star review because of the lack of that feature. I wish I would have seen it before mine shipped. It does say “side focus” on the icon of the other models after closer inspection. Just to reiterate to everyone, I’m not bashing leupold or trying to say I got screwed. I’m just bringing this to everyone’s attention that didn’t already know. Other than the lack of that one feature, this scope is nice. Glass is clear, it’s really light weight and overall a solid scope just not perfect for my application.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the initial review, I’m really interested in the new Mk4’s.

The 2.5-10 was always advertised (that I saw) as a fixed 150yd parallax. The 2-10 Mk5HD has adjustable parallax. The initial data on some sites for the 2.5-10 Mk4 had some inaccuracies.
 
#295
Jfservices said:
So I just received my 2.5-10 Mark 4 HD. Watch what you order fellas. Apparently having a parallax adjustment is an option and not standard…anyone want to buy a brand new scope? FML
Click to expand...

It’s not an option on the 2.5-10. It shows no parallax knob on the photos and in the specs even says it doesn’t have side focus and lists a 150 yard fixed parallax
 
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#296
Jfservices said:
Yea mine is illuminated TMR. I looked at the leupold website before I requested one back in January. When you click on the 2.5-10 on their website, there are a bunch of stock photos of other models that have it and nothing specified clearly that it didn’t have it. Between then and now, someone actually left a one star review because of the lack of that feature. I wish I would have seen it before mine shipped. It does say “side focus” on the icon of the other models after closer inspection. Just to reiterate to everyone, I’m not bashing leupold or trying to say I got screwed. I’m just bringing this to everyone’s attention that didn’t already know. Other than the lack of that one feature, this scope is nice. Glass is clear, it’s really light weight and overall a solid scope just not perfect for my application.
Click to expand...
Is yours FFP or SFP?

If FFP what do you think of the reticle at 2.5x?
 
#297
Jfservices said:
Yea mine is illuminated TMR. I looked at the leupold website before I requested one back in January. When you click on the 2.5-10 on their website, there are a bunch of stock photos of other models that have it and nothing specified clearly that it didn’t have it. Between then and now, someone actually left a one star review because of the lack of that feature. I wish I would have seen it before mine shipped. It does say “side focus” on the icon of the other models after closer inspection. Just to reiterate to everyone, I’m not bashing leupold or trying to say I got screwed. I’m just bringing this to everyone’s attention that didn’t already know. Other than the lack of that one feature, this scope is nice. Glass is clear, it’s really light weight and overall a solid scope just not perfect for my application.
Click to expand...

You didn't read the specs. It clearly lists fixed parallax.

I'm trying to decide on a 4.5-18 or 6-24 for a rimfire. I'd just buy another mark 5, 5-25 but the 20 vs 50 yard parallax has me going cheaper.
 
#298
chevy_man said:
You didn't read the specs. It clearly lists fixed parallax.

I'm trying to decide on a 4.5-18 or 6-24 for a rimfire. I'd just buy another mark 5, 5-25 but the 20 vs 50 yard parallax has me going cheaper.
Click to expand...
I would choose the 8-32 for rimfire unless you need below 8x, the design should lend to a very forgiving experience behind the scope.
 
#299
NHR said:
Is yours FFP or SFP?

If FFP what do you think of the reticle at 2.5x?
Click to expand...
FFP. I like the reticle just fine. At low power the sub-tensions are harder to see but generally I don’t need them at base mag. It also says that it is not “daylight bright” on the illumination but the illumination is plenty bright IMO. All in all, it’s a nice scope.
 
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