Lock-ease

[shooter777]

Unfortunately, I made the mistake of using lock-ease after cleaning my 6.5 CM Criterion barrel. At the time it had about 1200 rounds fired through it. It was shooting a consistent 5 shot .5 MOA. I went to the range and the first few groups were good. After about 15 rounds the groups went haywire. I had no clue why. I went home and ran a borescope and it showed there was a lot of copper in the barrel. So I cleaned the barrel again and got most of the copper out. I went to the range again and same thing happened. Barrel shot well until about 15 rounds and then the groups went to hell. Borescoped it again and it was filled with copper.
Don't have a clue what to do next. New barrel I guess. Unless somebody can give me a few pointers.

 

[TEUFEL820]

Can you give us a bit more info? How is the finish in the bore? Rough? Barrel contour or thickness? Bullet speed deviations? Bullet coating? There are so many variables. Are you shooting 15 rounds without allowing it to cool? After 1200 I can assume it's well broken in and should not foul like that. David Tubb has a product called final finish that may help save that barrel.

 

[shooter777]

Can you give us a bit more info? How is the finish in the bore? Rough? Barrel contour or thickness? Bullet speed deviations? Bullet coating? There are so many variables. Are you shooting 15 rounds without allowing it to cool? After 1200 I can assume it's well broken in and should not foul like that. David Tubb has a product called final finish that may help save that barrel.

Thanks for the reply. There's a small amount of firecracking in the first few inches of the bore but not a lot for 1200 rounds. The barrel has an MTU contour and I'm shooting Berger 144 LRHT. I use a chamber chiller and allow it to cool between 5 round groups.

 

[Baron23]

David Tubb has a product called final finish that may help save that barrel.

Seems like a good suggestion on getting remaining graphite lube out. But hard to understand why it would be fine at first and go to shit after 15 rounds if its just graphite left in there. I would think that it would be the same from the first shot to the 16th.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Get some JB Bore paste and scrub the ever living shit out of the barrel. Once its operating room clean, go shoot.

If that doesn't work, get a new barrel.

 

[shooter777]

Get some JB Bore paste and scrub the ever living shit out of the barrel. Once its operating room clean, go shoot.

If that doesn't work, get a new barrel.

Thanks. I'll try it. Nothing to lose at this point.

 

[AllenOne1]

Did you by chance clean this barrel down to very shiny metal?

If you did you need to basically break in the barrel again. Shoot 3, clean with a copper remover like Bore Tech Eliminator, run a patch with Lock-Eze on it. Repeat, repeat, repeat, until the copper stops sticking to the barrel. A bore scope makes this go pretty smoothly and you can tell when you are done.

The Lock-Eze is not your problem.

 

[Threadcutter308]

Why did you use “Lock ease” ?

With all the great gun cleaning products available, there’s no reason not to use something designed specifically for firearms.

Not sure that I think you actually turfed anything, but get a good gun/barrel cleaning product and you won’t have to worry about it.

 

[shooter777]

Did you by chance clean this barrel down to very shiny metal?

If you did you need to basically break in the barrel again. Shoot 3, clean with a copper remover like Bore Tech Eliminator, run a patch with Lock-Eze on it. Repeat, repeat, repeat, until the copper stops sticking to the barrel. A bore scope makes this go pretty smoothly and you can tell when you are done.

The Lock-Eze is not your problem.

No, I used my normal cleaning procedures except I used lock-ease at the end.

 

[shooter777]

Why did you use “Lock ease” ?

With all the great gun cleaning products available, there’s no reason not to use something designed specifically for firearms.

Not sure that I think you actually turfed anything, but get a good gun/barrel cleaning product and you won’t have to worry about it.

I’m asking myself that same question.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Did you by chance clean this barrel down to very shiny metal?

If you did you need to basically break in the barrel again. Shoot 3, clean with a copper remover like Bore Tech Eliminator, run a patch with Lock-Eze on it. Repeat, repeat, repeat, until the copper stops sticking to the barrel. A bore scope makes this go pretty smoothly and you can tell when you are done.

The Lock-Eze is not your problem.

Copper fouling is primarily an issue with a newer barrel that has sharp edges and ridges. With 1200 rounds down the tube, he does not need to break in or season the barrel other than a few sighters/foulers if you really care.

If you are still getting heavy copper fouling after propperly cleaning the barrel, the barrel is either a piece of shit or is toast; either way it needs to be replaced.

PRS, Fclass, ELR,ect shooters aren't doing that shit, so its a waste of time.

 

[SporterII]

Sounds like it’s toast.

 

[AllenOne1]

Copper fouling is primarily an issue with a newer barrel that has sharp edges and ridges. With 1200 rounds down the tube, he does not need to break in or season the barrel other than a few sighters/foulers if you really care.

If you are still getting heavy copper fouling after propperly cleaning the barrel, the barrel is either a piece of shit or is toast; either way it needs to be replaced.

PRS, Fclass, ELR,ect shooters aren't doing that shit, so its a waste of time.

You sir are wrong. If a barrel is too clean with 1000-2000 rounds through it (think shiny steel in there) it will built copper just like the OP is stating. I just went through this with a Proof barrel and was able to get it back to shooting small groups by using the method I outlined above.

Further more if you are saying top shooters don't use Lock-Eze to prime the barrel again you are wrong. Not everyone does but a few big names certainly do.

 

[Lowholer]

What is lock ease? Is that graphite they use on cylindrical keyways on door locks? Assuming all else is good to go I think you will be ok after a good scrubbing.I have a sako 243 that looked like a copper mine it drove my buddies nuts because I could not get all the copper out until I used David Tubbs method.Good Luck to you keep us posted how it turns out.

 

[Baron23]

What is lock ease? Is that graphite they use on cylindrical keyways on door locks?

Yes

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

You sir are wrong. If a barrel is too clean with 1000-2000 rounds through it (think shiny steel in there) it will built copper just like the OP is stating. I just went through this with a Proof barrel and was able to get it back to shooting small groups by using the method I outlined above.

Further more if you are saying top shooters don't use Lock-Eze to prime the barrel again you are wrong. Not everyone does but a few big names certainly do.

Proof makes inconsistent bore sized barrels. This can cause excessive fouling no matter the round count.

Shoot Bartlien or Hawk Hill and you won't have these issues. Budget Barrels get Budget results.

All this snake oil shit is just that. Same as the shoot once clean once shit.

 

[AllenOne1]

Proof makes inconsistent bore sized barrels. This can cause excessive fouling no matter the round count.

Shoot Bartlien or Hawk Hill and you won't have these issues. Budget Barrels get Budget results.

All this snake oil shit is just that. Same as the shoot once clean once shit.

I wasn't as happy with the Proof barrel as I wanted to be. It is about ready to swap out and a Krieger is going to take its place. I did however using the procedure above and some tweaking of the seat depth bring it back to shooting some 1/4 moa groups along with a 4" group at 600 yards last week.

 

[Haney]

Proof makes inconsistent bore sized barrels. This can cause excessive fouling no matter the round count.

Shoot Bartlien or Hawk Hill and you won't have these issues. Budget Barrels get Budget results.

All this snake oil shit is just that. Same as the shoot once clean once shit.

Where did you come up with Proof barrels having inconsistent bore sizes ?

 

[Reload10]

Where did you come up with Proof barrels having inconsistent bore sizes ?

It's true. Maybe not on all of them, but they do throw some tight spots once in a while.

 

[TEUFEL820]

Some coatings may cause weird issues. For example my proof barrel shoots the coated 6mm 115 DTAC lights out. 1/4 MOA on a clean barrel then accuracy starts to degrade after 50 rounds. I went from an sd of 6 to an sd of 30 of the same exact load. Shooting 10 round strings at a time and a cool off period afterwards. The coating on my bullets is HBN. I think my barrel starts to accumulate the coating in the bore and make it do this. I switched to a non coated Hornady and the consistency remains there for hundreds of rounds. My 6CM has 729 rounds thru it.

Start eliminating your variables one by one and you may find your problem.

 

[Haney]

It's true. Maybe not on all of them, but they do throw some tight spots once in a while.

What test equipment are you using to determine this ?

 

[Shoots 700's]

Im sure any manufacturer can have inconsistencies, I bought a proof pre fit for a TL3 in 6 creed this year and its been really good. For under $500.00, I wouldn’t hesitate to buy another.

 

[Reload10]

What test equipment are you using to determine this ?

Call Rich Sherman, he has sold tons of proofs but is shying away from them due to this. An air gauge would be the proper test equipment.

 

[Elite_KG]

I had a dud proof barrel that air-gauged low spec. Shot like shit no matter what I loaded. 30 cal Proof chambered by a renowned smith service group.

Replaced the barrel with a Bartlein and virgin shots were around 1/4 MOA. Funny how that works.

In defense of Proof, I have another 300 PRC prefit barrel that is shooting 1/2 MOA with factory Hornady over the first 20 rounds. Just got it assembled.

There is an occasional dud out there….as with most anything.

I cannot attest to the frequency, but I know they exist.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Where did you come up with Proof barrels having inconsistent bore sizes ?

Call Dan Warner and ask him about proof barrels.

Or any top flight smith who has used them before.

 

[StaveyIL]

First I’ve heard this about proof . Both mine are shooters. I have read of bad kreigers being turned out. Nothing is guaranteed , all make mistakes.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Hawk Hill and Bartlien, As close to a guaranteed to shoot as they get.

Anyone who doesn't know about proof barrels, quite frankly doesn't shoot enough. Its not a secret in any compettive shooting circle.

 

[StaveyIL]

Might want to let these guys know.

 

[StaveyIL]

Hawk Hill and Bartlien, As close to a guaranteed to shoot as they get.

Anyone who doesn't know about proof barrels, quite frankly doesn't shoot enough. Its not a secret in any compettive shooting circle.

Doesn’t shoot enough. LOL
Im sure your a “real” shooter. Give me a break. . I could care less . Im simply stating facts. Proof has the same guarantee ?

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Might want to let these guys know.
View attachment 7947521

Don't be a retard.

Proof barrels are always available (Wonder why that is)
They sell Prefits for everything.
The sponsor a TON of shooters
They always have barrel certs at every match.
They have a huge military/LEO discount, making their barrels cheap
They can make a good barrel, but they also put out a ton of shit barrels.
PRS doesn't require 1/4 MOA accuracy to succeed. Vibbert won a season hooting a 3/4MOA gun.
There are atleast half a dozen smiths I have personally spoke with who will NOT use their blanks. They will loose money when having to replace bad barrels they chamber.

CAL's what shooters use is outdated info. Go look up the top 20 National PRS shooters. Only one is using a proof. Its dominated by Bartlien, followed by HH & Benchmark.

You are rolling the dice when going with a Proof. You may get a great shooter or you may get a turd. They are a budget product for budget shooters.

Spend the money and get an all but guaranteed shooter or play the game and hope you get a proof that shoots.

 

[StaveyIL]

LOL you’re hilarious. Again I posted facts .
Wether you agree or not. I have only experience with proof AR barrels anyway. Guess what they shoot every bit as good as my barts and my kreiger. My kreiger is back at the smith . I waited twice his quoted time. Barrel came turns out he chamfered it for 308 not 6.5. So guess what MY KREIGER IS BACK AT THE SMITH. This is a fsct . It will be 5 months before it’s all sorted out. Yet the proof I ordered rom locked and loaded was here in 5 days and shoots like a laser. I would give you a comparison but I don’t have my kreiger back yet. The smith that did my kreiger was recommended rite off kreigers site. I have been waiting to see how the smith handles this. I do t want to flame him. He explained to me he’s going through a tough time etc.. I’ve posted the facts. You’ve simply posting your opinion which is irrelevant. You know dozens of smiths blah blah blah ….

 

[StaveyIL]

Proof rite kreiger left. Even the “best” fuck up.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

LOL you’re hilarious. Again I posted facts .
Wether you agree or not. I have only experience with proof AR barrels anyway. Guess what they shoot every bit as good as my barts and my kreiger. My kreiger is back at the smith . I waited twice his quoted time. Barrel came turns out he chamfered it for 308 not 6.5. So guess what MY KREIGER IS BACK AT THE SMITH. This is a fsct . It will be 5 months before it’s all sorted out. Yet the proof I ordered rom locked and loaded was here in 5 days and shoots like a laser. I would give you a comparison but I don’t have my kreiger back yet. The smith that did my kreiger was recommended rite off kreigers site. I have been waiting to see how the smith handles this. I do t want to flame him. He explained to me he’s going through a tough time etc.. I’ve posted the facts. You’ve simply posting your opinion which is irrelevant. You know dozens of smiths blah blah blah ….

You haven't posted fuck all.

Sample size of how many?

I know its hard to fathom up in cuckistan where you have to get permission to buy every round of ammo from the queen, but down here, we actually shoot and compete.

Krieger is all but dead in the PRS world for the same reason people have moved from Proof to Bartlien, HH and Benchmark. They all make a superior product that has much better barrel to barrel consistency.

My worst shooting barrels are from proof, my bartliens all shoot sub 3/8. EVERY SINGLE ONE.

Meanwhile you are dealing with a non shooting barrel from a questionable smith and have the balls to tell people that its just their opinion.

L O Fucking L.

 

[StaveyIL]

You haven't posted fuck all.

Sample size of how many?

I know its hard to fathom up in cuckistan where you have to get permission to buy every round of ammo from the queen, but down here, we actually shoot and compete.

Krieger is all but dead in the PRS world for the same reason people have moved from Proof to Bartlien, HH and Benchmark. They all make a superior product that has much better barrel to barrel consistency.

My worst shooting barrels are from proof, my bartliens all shoot sub 3/8. EVERY SINGLE ONE.

Meanwhile you are dealing with a non shooting barrel from a questionable smith and have the balls to tell people that its just their opinion.

You have no idea when or how much I shoot. Maybe your smith isn’t doing something rite?

You stated your “worst shooting barrels are proof .” THEN WHY DID YOU CONTINUE BUYING THEM ? Either you are a slow learner or simply full of sh!t . Seams like both.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

You stated your “worst shooting barrels are proof .” THEN WHY DID YOU CONTINUE BUYING THEM ? Either you are a slow learner or simply full of sh!t . Seams like both.

One came on the gun I bought. An altus chambered rifle that evolved into my match gun. I was going to rebarrel it to 6GT anyway. That one shoots better than the proof prefit but no where near as good as my Bartliens.

The prefit is a ..223 trainer barrel. The idea was to keep it cheap and I did not know about the issues before I bought it. Its fine for PRS practice out to 800 or so but it does not group well using ammo that hammers in everything else.

Where did I state I continue to buy them? You seem to have trouble with reading comprehension and are making some pretty big assumptions.

Who is the smith you used on the Krieger?

 

[Average guy]

My best shooting barrel I’ve ever had is a proof. Also have many brands that have shot .5 or less. My brother in law burns up a couple barrels a year, his worst shooting barrel by far was a Bartlein. Just goes to show nothing is absolute.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

The smith the chambers the barrel is almost as important as the barrel. Use good smiths who don't skimp on quality, tool wear and machine skills and you will not have a problem. Alot of people buy prefits from questionable quality smiths and wonder why they have issues. Stick to known quantities and you will not have issues. Anyone can put out a bad barrel but your chances of getting a bad one from HH or Barty are a small fraction of your chances from other barrel manufactures.

A bad smith can ruin a great blank but even a great smith can't make a bad blank shoot.

 

[Haney]

Hawk Hill and Bartlien, As close to a guaranteed to shoot as they get.

Anyone who doesn't know about proof barrels, quite frankly doesn't shoot enough. Its not a secret in any compettive shooting circle.

Still trolling for attention I see.

 

[Haney]

The smith the chambers the barrel is almost as important as the barrel. Use good smiths who don't skimp on quality, tool wear and machine skills and you will not have a problem. Alot of people buy prefits from questionable quality smiths and wonder why they have issues. Stick to known quantities and you will not have issues. Anyone can put out a bad barrel but your chances of getting a bad one from HH or Barty are a small fraction of your chances from other barrel manufactures.

A bad smith can ruin a great blank but even a great smith can't make a bad blank shoot.

Now I know you don't know shit . Also , What a cute little name...Barty . You need to get outdoors .

 

[Haney]

Call Dan Warner and ask him about proof barrels.

Or any top flight smith who has used them before.

Sweet story bro.

 

[TheBigCountry]

The smith the chambers the barrel is almost as important as the barrel. Use good smiths who don't skimp on quality, tool wear and machine skills and you will not have a problem. Alot of people buy prefits from questionable quality smiths and wonder why they have issues. Stick to known quantities and you will not have issues. Anyone can put out a bad barrel but your chances of getting a bad one from HH or Barty are a small fraction of your chances from other barrel manufactures.

A bad smith can ruin a great blank but even a great smith can't make a bad blank shoot.

CobraCutter will always be the same

He can change his name

But at the end, he’s always super lame

He acts big and bad

But his life is really sad

He likes to troll and act tough

But it’s all a big bluff

You can try to change your name

But who you really are stays the same

 

[Jareth Cutestory]

can we get off the brand whoring and name dropping retardation that this thread has become.


Go back to answering why the op thought it was a swell idea to use stupid shit like lock eze/graphite fudd shit in a barrel.

maybe give him some advice on getting that garbage out... using some kind of acid like CLR to pit it into a better state of ruin.

 

[AllenOne1]

can we get off the brand whoring and name dropping retardation that this thread has become.


Go back to answering why the op thought it was a swell idea to use stupid shit like lock eze/graphite fudd shit in a barrel.

maybe give him some advice on getting that garbage out... using some kind of acid like CLR to pit it into a better state of ruin.

Your stupidity is showing.

 

[Jareth Cutestory]

Your stupidity is showing.

projecting are we?