M40 Build Guide

[Pvt.Joker]

Re: M40 Build Guide

Also, the rings were the originals.

The base is one of the Badger replicas that was made for the pre-letter early receivers, so it *should* be the correct height. (The Badger rings were the same height; I pulled both and compared)

 

[SDWhirlwind]

Re: M40 Build Guide

Your Douglas barrel is a 40-XB contour barrel very close in dimensions to the M40A1 barrel and a good bit heavier than the contour the M40 was issued with. The 40-XB came with 2 different contours. Heaviest was roughly .9" @ 27.5" finish length. M40 contour is rougly .830" at the muzzle @ 24" total length(a bit over 23" from lug to muzzle).

Also your comment on Redfield rings being "original", original in reference to what? Many of the early Redfield rings are stamped on bottom with the same number as in your pic. Don't really know exactly what it means but have seen some with 1-68 also and IIRC seen a set at a gunshow with 1-69???

HTH

 

[Pvt.Joker]

Re: M40 Build Guide

Thanks. I will call Douglas in the morning and see what they can do to help me out on this.

As for the rings; I was under the impression that the rings that had those numbers stamped on them were on the original M40 rifles? I certainly could be wrong; that's why I ask so many questions on here. Still learning a LOT as I go along with this project.

 

[SDWhirlwind]

Re: M40 Build Guide

The numbers on the Redfield rings may well be same as on rings used by the Corp but are not exclusive to the Corp. Don't know if numbers were different from low to medium to high etc. Think I have several sets laying around, guess I could dig them out and measure to see if all with same numbers are the same height? With the old Redfield being out of business for years only perhaps an old exemployee might know?

 

[mjh30]

Re: M40 Build Guide

Pvt Joker, the barrel as you surmise is not for the M40, as Dennis states thats a pretty thick barrel contour, really thick, also theres no contour to it. As for the rings, as stated in both Senichs books and Chandlers books, the rings issued on the M40 had rings marked 1-64 or 1-66, was this exclusive to the M40, no not at all, but I have a few sets of four screw low rings that have no markings whatsoever. Hope that Douglas sorts that out for you, my Smith got my barrel from Douglas, I know when he ordered it he simply ordered the Remington varmint contour.

 

[gregv]

Re: M40 Build Guide

Is that the barrel that you just got from Douglas? It doesn't look like the one that I got from them. I can't remember if I sent you pictures and dimensions of mine. I think I posted them on the forum here somewhere to.

Greg

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pvt.Joker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks. I will call Douglas in the morning and see what they can do to help me out on this.

As for the rings; I was under the impression that the rings that had those numbers stamped on them were on the original M40 rifles? I certainly could be wrong; that's why I ask so many questions on here. Still learning a LOT as I go along with this project. </div></div>

 

[gregv]

Re: M40 Build Guide

This is what I got from Douglas. It looks different than yours, at least in the pictures. The also make what they call a Rem. #7 varmint contour barrel. I just got a stock from Numrich that is suppossed to be for a Rem. SA varmint rifle. It looks great, but my Douglas barrel doesn't drop right in. The thicker chamber area seems to run out a little too long before tapering down. I'm wondering now if the #7 contour wouildn't be a better fit, but I still don't know which is closer to the early spec. My original post is on page 5, near the bottom and there are pictures.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg V</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My Douglas barrel arrived today. It is 25" in overall length, threaded and chambered for .308. There are no stampings anywhere. The crown is wrong, but that doesn't matter, as the barrel is an inch too long and will have to be cut and re-crowned anyhow.

Measurements are as follows:

first 2.5 ins. from recoil lug forward = 1.260 ins. dia.
next 3.5 ins. in length tapers to .930 dia
then it tapers down to .835 at the 24 in. mark. (23 from recoil lug). Pretty close to the correct .830 spec at the muzzle.

Here's the order info: 308 WIN REM 700 M-40 X 25" 10 FTC CM
CM is for chromoly and 10 is for 1/10 twist. This barrel is a little bit different than their Remington 007 Varmint contour.

Let me know if you need any more info. I talked to Stan at Douglas (304) 776-1341

Douglas Barrel #1

Douglas Barrel Crown

Greg V </div></div>

 

[Pvt.Joker]

Re: M40 Build Guide

OK; I spoke to Stan today at Douglas. Great folks to deal with. He said to send my barrel back in and they could just turn it down to the right profile, and put the right crown on it if I sent him some photos of what I am wanting. So I am going to copy the pages out of "The One-Round War" and see if I can get any more specs on exactly what it needs to be at, and send it all back in and get what I have turned into what I need.

 

[mjh30]

Re: M40 Build Guide

Greg V your barrel when its cut to 24 should be 830 and a flat crown is the way to go, although a good smith can do 11 degrees and you couldn't honestly tell the difference.

 

[gregv]

Re: M40 Build Guide

Does a spec barrel start to taper immediately from 1.250" with no straight cylinder portion, like a Rem. varmint contour? The barrel That I have runs straight out at 1.250" for 2.5 ins. then tapers.

I think one has to be very specific with Douglas. I had told them that I wanted a flat crown, but they ended up putting a recessed crown on it. That's not a big deal though, as the barrel is an inch to long anyway. I was just going to have mike Lau put the proper crown on it. Now I'm just concerned about getting the proper taper on the barrel.

 

[mjh30]

Re: M40 Build Guide

From what I understand and Dennis would know even better than me is that the barrel contour is the same as the original Remington varmint contour. I know that in past years Remington has made their varmint contour 26 inches, but the rest remained correct. 1.250 for 2 inches, tapering from .940 at 4.5 inches to .830 at 24 inches

 

[gregv]

Re: M40 Build Guide

Shilen makes a barrel that looks to meet those specs. It's their "17 Remington Varmint(Sendero)" 1.250 for 2" then tapers to .940 at 4.5" and is .830 at 24".

I read somewhere that their barrels aren't as good as some of the others, but I'm more into making an M40 clone than I am a tack driver. I might have to get one of theirs or see if I can return my barrel to Douglas and see if they will re-contour it to those specs. I thought that my Douglas was the right one, but again, it's a bit off.

link to the site: http://www.shilen.com/contours.html

 

[gregv]

Re: M40 Build Guide

Here's a few pictures of my Douglas "USMC M40" barrel resting in my Numrich, "Short Action, BDL, Heavy Barrel Varmint, Satin Finished Walnut Stock" Product No. 553690

In order for my barrel to fit properly in the channel on this stock, the taper would have to start 1&5/8" farther back than where it does now, which means it would only run out at 1.250 for about an inch before tapering down.

 

[mjh30]

Re: M40 Build Guide

Your Douglas looks about four inches, if you have Senihs book page 187, excellent barrel picture, shows about two inches total

 

[Pvt.Joker]

Re: M40 Build Guide

Greg, I think I may have this one figured out. The previous page link you posted shows the barrel profile measurements at 1.260 for the first 2.5 inches starting from the recoil lug and then the next 3.5 inches tapered to .930 inches. IF that moves back to starting at the end of the threaded chamber instead, then that would move the thicker portion in the barrel channel forward to about where it *should* be to fit, right? Where did the measurements for the barrel profile in that picture come from? I am going to give Stan at Douglas a call and ask him to take a look at both pictures, and will post what I find.

*ETA OK; I spoke to Stan again at Douglas and went over the specs with him as the barrel got back there this morning. What we are going to do is go with the Remington Varmint profile but with the 23 inch barrel and flat crown with the outer lip. That *SHOULD* fit everything correctly. The photo above has one other problem in the measurements; I measured my scope on the base on my receiver and the wide part of the front bell starts at right about 3 inches out from the recoil lug, so even if the 1.260 part only comes out 1 inch from the lug, it would need the taper to .930 to be down by 3 inches out to clear the scope.

It's being a challenge, which usually means we must be getting close to correct!

 

[gregv]

Re: M40 Build Guide

I ordered that barrel based on what a guy on another forum posted. He posted an actual picture of his receipt from Douglas, so I used that info. I just assumed that it was correct and when I talked to Stan, I told him that I needed the barrel for an early, Vietnam era M40. I now know that it would have been better to provide him with the actual specs, which I am still not 100% sure of. In looking at the pictures in Senich's book, it does look like the taper actually starts about 2 inches forward of the threaded end of the chamber, rather than the recoil lug.

I took the measurements that I posted in the above thread. I think that even if the 1.250, or 1.260 in the case of my barrel, goes out 2 inches from the recoil lug, that is still too far.

Anyhow, I am looking forward to seeing how yours come out after you get it back from Stan.

Are you getting a whole new one, or is he going to just re-do yours?

Thanks, Greg

 

[Pvt.Joker]

Re: M40 Build Guide

Far as I know, Greg, Stan is just going to take mine and have it recontured to the Varmint profile and cut down the 1 inch off the end and redo the muzzle like the illustrations in Senich's book and off the web over on CSP's M40 build thread shows. I'm working on a stencil for the various markings once I get it back to add once it is installed and headspaced. I also ordered one of those stocks from Numrich (I just hope they aren't back-ordered) to go with it, so waiting on that to come in too.

Once I get the barrel back, I'll test fit it to my receiver with the scope mounted and see what we have. Then if mine works, you can see if Stan will turn yours down the same way, perhaps?

 

[gregv]

Re: M40 Build Guide

Thanks. I'm also curious to see how it all fits into the Numrich stock. It looks like the stock is sold out right now, but keep your eye on it. They were sold out when I went to order mine, but they came availble about a month later. It's a pretty decent stock and a whole lot easier than trying to redo an ADL stock.

 

[Pvt.Joker]

Re: M40 Build Guide

Well, they're showing my order status as "preparing for shipment" so I presume that means I got the last one, then? Kind of ironic, since the pre-suffix Badger Ord square base was pretty much the same deal, as I recall. It may be becoming much harder to build these at this rate? Guess it's a good thing we started when we did.

 

[gregv]

Re: M40 Build Guide

Yea, it is quite the project, but it will sure be worth it when they're finished! Once I get my barrel straightened out, I will have most everything I need. I can't find the correct base, so i will probably try to have the rounded corners built up on the one that I have. The correct scope is quite another hunt! I missed a couple of accu-ranges a while back and now they seem pretty hard to come by. I'm hoping to find one and have it either coated or maybe even anodized somehow.

 

[Pvt.Joker]

Re: M40 Build Guide

I'll see if I can find the name and contact info on the folks I got mine from. He restores these and said that he had no luck trying to change colors with anodizing. The original bare aluminum takes the dye as part of the process and once it is in there, it's supposedly just about impossible to get it all back out of the pores of the metal to put the new color of dye on it. So with the one I got, he had stripped it completely down, serviced all the internals, and then duracoated it to match the original shade of green as near as possible. Not 100% correct, granted, but I just didn't have a couple of more thousand to put out on an original Marine green scope.

 

[gregv]

Re: M40 Build Guide

That would be great, sounds like what I need to have done.

 

[grunt0311]

Re: M40 Build Guide

I know that the Marine armorers bedded the M40s when they got them. Did they also bed the BM as well or did they just do the barreled action? I looked through Senichs book and couldnt find anything.

 

[Pvt.Joker]

Re: M40 Build Guide

Not sure, USMC Grunt. Best as I can figure, that was done by the armorers in country, so I don't know if it wouldn't depend on who, where and when any individual rifle arrived as to how it was done. I've been told that a lot of things that are passed around as "gospel" in the books, etc. aren't nearly as written in stone in reality back then. Exceptions to every rule, as they say? I know that once mine gets together and finished, that I want mine bedded. After all, it IS still going to be a shooter once done, and that would make a BIG difference in accuracy.

One other update; my new stock from Numrich came in today. Expensive, but WORTH IT. VERY happy with the fit and finish, and once I swapped buttplates and added my sling swivels to it, it looks really good. I still have my halfway-finished ADL-to-BDL stock too. Thought about either selling it, or maybe trying to finish it up too and then camo-painting that one like Mawhinny's was? Probably just sell it though. Once mine is bedded, I really don't want to be pulling it out and swapping stocks (not to mention having to bed the second one, too) and besides, someone out there doing one of these from scratch might want it?

Greg, I still haven't found the box and papers for the company I got the scope from yet, but I am still looking for it. I'll post it once I find it.

 

[gregv]

Re: M40 Build Guide

Pvt.Joker,
Thanks, no hurry on the scope info. Those stocks do look pretty good, guess that's why they sell out so fast. The aluminum buttplates fit good too! Not a whole lot of work to get one looking good. Are you going to reshape the forend and put some "oil" on it?

Did you get your barrel back from Douglas yet?

Greg

 

[Pvt.Joker]

Re: M40 Build Guide

Greg, yeah, I am planning on reshaping the front end once I get my barrel back. I've thought about rubbing the stock down with linseed oil, but I also have have had real good results with a product called Howard Feed-N-Wax.

 

[gregv]

Re: M40 Build Guide

Yea, I like that Feed n Wax too. I have also had great sucess with "Fairtrimmer's Military oX" .

I'm looking forward to see how your barrel fits in that stock.

http://www.fairtrimmers.com/

 

[Pvt.Joker]

Re: M40 Build Guide

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg V</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I'm looking forward to see how your barrel fits in that stock.

</div></div>

Yeah, me too. I thought about calling them and asking about it, but I don't want to be a pain in the ass to them about it. I guess it wouldn't hurt to check in though.

 

[gregv]

Re: M40 Build Guide

I'm thinking that if you had them re-contour it to their "Rem Varmint 007" contour specs, it should fit pretty good. Probably what I should have ordered in the first place.

Sorry about steering you in the wrong direction to begin with!

 

[Pvt.Joker]

Re: M40 Build Guide

No problem; I think a lot of us in the middle of these are all kind of figuring out more and more about them as we go along- and sometimes that means making a mistake or two along the way. That's the good thing about this thread, though. Anyone who follows gets to save themselves making the same ones we do, and also gets a lot of the research done for them (assuming, of course, that WE wind up correct about it in the first place!

) so it makes it that much easier for the next guy to know where to look for parts and info.

Hey, I *think* I may have a line on a set of stencils for doing the engravings on mine. If I can get it and it works, do you want one too? (Or want yours done?) I want to see how they turn out on mine first, but if they work, that's one more piece of the puzzle.

 

[gregv]

Re: M40 Build Guide

Thanks for the offer. I do want to see how yours comes out. Can't wait until we get them done! You will probably be done way before me. I don't have the means or the knowledge to clip slot, install a barrel, or park mine, so I was planning on sending my barrel, action, and bolt to TBA for the "metal" work. From what I understand, I will have a long wait, but that's OK.

 

[gregv]

Re: M40 Build Guide

Forgot to ask. Are you going to date code yours or stamp it 7.62? I still can't decide which I want.

Are you doing the U.S. stamps yourself or just engraving the serial numbers?

 

[grunt0311]

Re: M40 Build Guide

Joker, what are you going to use to bed your rifle. I wanted to do mine in marine tex in white and then dye it to match the stock. I did it last night and it didnt turn out right. It was more light brown then the dark brown. So my question is, is there a bedding compound that can be turned into dark brown to match the stock. After I take the action out Ill post some pics to so what Im talking about. I know that the rifles used in Vietnam were bedded with Bisonite but I cant find it in brown.

 

[Pvt.Joker]

Re: M40 Build Guide

Greg, I am planning on doing the date code version as near as I can estimate it by the serial number (the receiver I got didn't have the original barrel anymore). I am planning on trying to do the "U.S." marking, the barrel proofs side and date code, and the Redfield logo on the scope base with etching, and then electropenciling the serial numbers on the bolt body, the scope base and maybe the scope body.

USMC Grunt, I haven't decided yet which product to use. I will probably discuss it with Ronnie Morris and go by his recommendation (maybe even get him to do it). I really respect his opinion and he has done a lot of really excellent work for me before. I trust his opinion on that sort of thing.

 

[gregv]

Re: M40 Build Guide

I don't know if this will help with your date code, but my rifles were complete, I believe with original barrels.

My 266,xxx was date coded LP, Feb. 1967.
My 321,xxx was date coded XP, Dec. 1967.

 

[Pvt.Joker]

Re: M40 Build Guide

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg V</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't know if this will help with your date code, but my rifles were complete, I believe with original barrels.

My 266,xxx was date coded LP, Feb. 1967.
My 321,xxx was date coded XP, Dec. 1967. </div></div>

Thanks, Greg. Mine is a 256,xxx and I was planning on using the code of U F N 41, which I thought would be pretty close to it. I thought someone on here once seemed to have a breakdown of month codes by serial number, but I couldn't find it. So I am estimating/WAG.

 

[gregv]

Re: M40 Build Guide

Not sure what the U F are, maybe inspector markings. There are no month codes that I am aware of that are U or F. The N should be 1966.

link for date codes: http://www.remingtonsociety.com/questions/BLACKPOWDERX.htm

 

[Pvt.Joker]

Re: M40 Build Guide

Thanks, Greg. I just presumed they went in alphabetical order for the months, too. That just saved me a big screw-up! Glad I didn't get a chance to get the stencil made yet.

 

[grunt0311]

Re: M40 Build Guide

I have an M40 that I am putting a 2 piece sear in. I have put it on the barreled action and put the bolt in. After I fire it and cycle the bolt, the cocking piece drops as if I were firing it again and all Im doing is closing the bolt. Now after I fire it and put it on safe and cycle the bolt it doesnt do it.

Did I put the sear in wrong? When I put in the one piece sear everything works the way its suppose to.

 

[Pvt.Joker]

Re: M40 Build Guide

Did you get the two sides swapped? If I remember mine, they are not the same on each side. My trigger is out of the weapon right now waiting on getting the barrel back and all the stripping/parking done, but this is how it came out. Will these photos help any?

 

[Pvt.Joker]

Re: M40 Build Guide

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg V</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not sure what the U F are, maybe inspector markings. There are no month codes that I am aware of that are U or F. The N should be 1966.

link for date codes: http://www.remingtonsociety.com/questions/BLACKPOWDERX.htm
</div></div>

OK; so my new date code is going to be U R N 41 (The U and the 41 were inspector markings, as I understand it and were on the illustration in Senich's book), so that would put it in November, which, if the one in Senich's book is October 1966 with a serial number of 224xxx and yours has a date code for Feb 1967 at its serial number, should be pretty close to what this one should have been, right? Unless anyone has a listing of serial number ranges by month/year for the 700?

 

[grunt0311]

Re: M40 Build Guide

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pvt.Joker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Did you get the two sides swapped? If I remember mine, they are not the same on each side. My trigger is out of the weapon right now waiting on getting the barrel back and all the stripping/parking done, but this is how it came out. Will these photos help any?

</div></div>

I think that I had them the same as your pic. I got it to work right after doing some rapid bolt with it and out of 10 times doing it I think that it dropped once. But now the problem that I have is that the bolt stop works when its out of the stock and when I put it in it doesnt work. So I might have to mill out some of the side of the stock that the bolt release is on.

 

[grunt0311]

Re: M40 Build Guide

Im so irratated with this bolt release. I have tried everything that I can think of to make it work. When its in the stock it doesnt work at all. I milled some more of the inside where the bolt release is at and it still doesnt work. Does anyone have any ideas how I can fix this problem please?

 

[Pvt.Joker]

Re: M40 Build Guide

Try it in a different stock and see if that fixes it?

 

[grunt0311]

Re: M40 Build Guide

I got it to work. I put in another stock and it works and took that barreled action and put it in the M40 stock and it didnt work either. Problem was that it was the front part of the release that was still hitting the stock. I thought it was the back part but it wasnt. So glad thats fixed. Now I only need to get my Redfield fixed and Ill be good to go.

 

[gregv]

Re: M40 Build Guide

Here is a rear sling swivel that should work pretty good for an M40 build. It's not my auction, but I have purchased two of these from this guy for my project. I know they are not really correct for the front, but once it's screwed into the stock, you really can't tell the difference. They look very close to the swivels that I have seen on M40 rifles in pictures.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=231908225

 

[gregv]

Re: M40 Build Guide

By the way, if you do buy one of these, ask the seller if he has another one to match. He seems to have quite a few of these and did sell me two off of one auction.

 

[gregv]

Re: M40 Build Guide

Pvt.Joker,

Just wondering if you got your stock and if you got your barrel back. Curious to hear how it all fits together.

Thanks, Greg

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pvt.Joker</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg V</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I'm looking forward to see how your barrel fits in that stock.

</div></div>

Yeah, me too. I thought about calling them and asking about it, but I don't want to be a pain in the ass to them about it. I guess it wouldn't hurt to check in though.
</div></div>

 

[Pvt.Joker]

Re: M40 Build Guide

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg V</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Pvt.Joker,

Just wondering if you got your stock and if you got your barrel back. Curious to hear how it all fits together.

Thanks, Greg</div></div>

Greg; nope. I did get the new stock in and did some work on rounding the nose correctly, but I'm still waiting on Douglas to get the barrel reworked. They may have gotten to it on Friday, but I was too late calling them Friday afternoon and they had already closed. I'll check back tomorrow and see. Believe me; I'm pretty "curious" too to see how it all fits together!

 

[Pvt.Joker]

Re: M40 Build Guide

OK; I got the barrel back and it still had problems with the taper on the profile starting about 1.552" too far forward on the barrel. So I called Stan this morning at Douglas and we talked it over, and I agreed to send him my whole rifle project back along with the barrel. So that way, he can see for himself just where/how the changes need to be made to fit the varmint stock, the Redfield scope on the pre-suffix mount, the 6-digit receiver and bolt, etc. Always easier to do with the parts in hand, and hopefully once done, he can save the profile for it in the CAD files for their lathe and the next guy that needs an M40 barrel will have it fit like a charm right off the bat. Not quite the "I'm finally finished!" that I had hoped to post, but it's getting there and Stan at Douglas is working with me on it still, so hopefully it will help not only me but anyone else who decides to build one to know where to go for a barrel that fits.