Rifle Scopes March FFP 3x-24x Tactical Scope

#51
Re: March FFP 3x-24x Tactical Scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JH</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 264Charlie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">According to top BR and F-Class guys noting tracks like a March. I know some guys that do a lot of testing in indoor tunnels and they all shoot March now. </div></div>

Didnt take me long to figure that one out Charlie.
Having used many NF, PR Leups, S&B PM2 etc could never get a respectable group meaning none tracked like a March, always thought it was the barrel or ammo.

See its still got the 4" eye relief.
</div></div>

So using a schmidt und bender caused you to get unrespectable groups, but a march will fix that?

What the hell?
 
#52
Re: March FFP 3x-24x Tactical Scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: onlyfineknives</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ilya,

How's the thickness of the reticle compared to a gen 2 or gen2 xr in a Premier?
</div></div>

Which part of the reticle?

The thin lines in the center are a bit thicker on the March (I think). However, I like the fact that the center is open (around the dot). I prefer aiming with the dot, than with the crosshair. On the other hand, I need to see if the dot is perhaps too big. Bottom line, I need to spend more time with the scope.

ILya
 
#54
Re: March FFP 3x-24x Tactical Scope

Guys,

I am really liking the feedback and info we are getting from you. This is why we put this stuff out here, is to get your opinion. I was talking today to a designer and we both agree that the dot is too big. We will be able to get some ideas from you guys, by showing you our ideas. The main basis for this scope is for quick tactical shooting/ man size targets. We use SFP scopes for precision paper, because the reticle is always thin. Using a FFP scope to punch paper really makes no sense to me. I see this scope as a great scope for shooting steel as well as hunting and or larger targets.

I am really trying to grasp what you guys want from a scope? The problem with an 8x magnification ratio, is the extreme growth of the reticle. It is very hard to make a reticle that is great at 3x and at 24x.

March plans on designing new reticles for this scope as well, but we need feedback first on the reticles and what is needed.


Thanks,
Ian
 
#55
Re: March FFP 3x-24x Tactical Scope

Agree there's a happy medium that needs to be struck here, given the 8x magnification ratio but it's going to be hard. The Gen2 XR reticle on the premiers is good at max mag but a 3-5x, it's marginal IMHO. Still, a 0.25mil dot in the center of this reticle is going to be way too big at long ranges - probably needs to come down at least 50%, or why not just use a solid cross hair without a dot? I know a dot will help at low mag - but so will the illum.
 
#56
Re: March FFP 3x-24x Tactical Scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ian A. Kelbly</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Guys,

I am really liking the feedback and info we are getting from you. This is why we put this stuff out here, is to get your opinion. I was talking today to a designer and we both agree that the dot is too big. We will be able to get some ideas from you guys, by showing you our ideas. The main basis for this scope is for quick tactical shooting/ man size targets. We use SFP scopes for precision paper, because the reticle is always thin. Using a FFP scope to punch paper really makes no sense to me. I see this scope as a great scope for shooting steel as well as hunting and or larger targets.

<span style="color: #FF0000">I am really trying to grasp what you guys want from a scope?</span> The problem with an 8x magnification ratio, is the extreme growth of the reticle. It is very hard to make a reticle that is great at 3x and at 24x.

March plans on designing new reticles for this scope as well, but we need feedback first on the reticles and what is needed.


Thanks,
Ian </div></div>

Ian,

I and others I'm sure,consider rksimple the best tactical shooter here out west.He and a few cohorts opinions and input would be invaluable to you.My advice...begin communication with someone who knows what most of us(tactical match shooters)would like in a reticle.

IMO,the only time I dial my FFP scopes all the way down to lowest power is when I'm shooting through the chrono.In other words,very rarely is it necessary on a one way range.

 
#57
Re: March FFP 3x-24x Tactical Scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ian A. Kelbly</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Guys,

I am really liking the feedback and info we are getting from you. This is why we put this stuff out here, is to get your opinion. I was talking today to a designer and we both agree that the dot is too big. We will be able to get some ideas from you guys, by showing you our ideas. The main basis for this scope is for quick tactical shooting/ man size targets. We use SFP scopes for precision paper, because the reticle is always thin. Using a FFP scope to punch paper really makes no sense to me. I see this scope as a great scope for shooting steel as well as hunting and or larger targets.

<span style="color: #FF0000">I am really trying to grasp what you guys want from a scope?</span> The problem with an 8x magnification ratio, is the extreme growth of the reticle. It is very hard to make a reticle that is great at 3x and at 24x.

March plans on designing new reticles for this scope as well, but we need feedback first on the reticles and what is needed.


Thanks,
Ian </div></div>

Ian,

I and others I'm sure,consider rksimple the best tactical shooter here out west.He and a few cohorts opinions and input would be invaluable to you.My advice...begin communication with someone who knows what most of us(tactical match shooters)would like in a reticle.

IMO,the only time I dial my FFP scopes all the way down to lowest power is when I'm shooting through the chrono.In other words,very rarely is it necessary on a one way range.

</div></div>

Thanks Steve. That means a lot coming from you.

Ian, I'll send you a PM. I'd really like to put some ideas out there. The FFP market is huge and a great reticle is all we're waiting for.

The reason why we need to punch paper with FFP optics is because there are many different COF's at any given match. I could have a fast steel stage followed by a paper KYL stage with a 1/4 moa dot as the smallest target. The best all around optic is FFP, and like Steve said, despite the magnification range, I never go below 8-10x. Except maybe when I have a 10-15 yard stage where my scope won't focus that close, and shooting at 3x allows at least a minimum focus. Making the optic focus at 10M or so should help immensely with that.
 
#59
Re: March FFP 3x-24x Tactical Scope

Hello Ian.

I will call you to review.


We shoot paper and steel in the same matches.

Paper targets come in two forms small ( 1/4 MOA) and larger ( 1-2MOA) aiming points. Most will shoot paper at 20x+ so the optic will need a fine line (.04) or thiner with a open center for the small aiming points like a KYL.

Steel targets are usually 2 MOA or larger and the FFP is used to hold for wind or elevation (if no time to dial) at whatever power is comfortable. This falls into the 7 - 15 power most of the time. The second bit is speed, If I don't have time to dial I don't want to spend the time counting lines on a scope. Numbers are key to this.

Finding targets. The lower powers are really only used to acquire targets when shooting in an open environment with a lot distance between the targets. Once the target is found we rack the power back up.

Ranging, This is not used that often but the scope needs to have the .2 mill lines on part of the reticle to help with accuracy.

Really if March wanted a great scope they should use the 5-32 and make some think in that range, now that would be something really cool.
 
#60
Re: March FFP 3x-24x Tactical Scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ian A. Kelbly</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Guys,

I am really liking the feedback and info we are getting from you. This is why we put this stuff out here, is to get your opinion. I was talking today to a designer and we both agree that the dot is too big. We will be able to get some ideas from you guys, by showing you our ideas. The main basis for this scope is for quick tactical shooting/ man size targets. We use SFP scopes for precision paper, because the reticle is always thin. Using a FFP scope to punch paper really makes no sense to me. I see this scope as a great scope for shooting steel as well as hunting and or larger targets.

I am really trying to grasp what you guys want from a scope? The problem with an 8x magnification ratio, is the extreme growth of the reticle. It is very hard to make a reticle that is great at 3x and at 24x.

March plans on designing new reticles for this scope as well, but we need feedback first on the reticles and what is needed.


Thanks,
Ian </div></div>

Why not copy the principal behind the US Optics RDPMOA reticle? It has nice thickness main beams that narrow down to a varmint/target size reticle at the very center. Maybe have a 1-2 mil center section really fine. It will disappear at low power but thats OK. And you have a fine reticle for higher magnification. Or go with wide main beams and a 1-2 mil open center with small dot.
 
#61
Re: March FFP 3x-24x Tactical Scope

Ian,
I and my buddy John have been very interested in your offerings. In fact we talked to you at SHOT (as did a lot of others probably). I have noticed 3 "mistakes" in mil reticles in great scopes.

1. Any more than .5mil open space around the center aiming point is a no-go. .5mil of wind hold is very common. I can't think of who missed this in their reticle, someone high end. Of course .5mil hashes are required between all full mils.

2. A traditional mil scope only allows for so many "positive" milling brackets, i.e. the number of instances where you can mil your target by having it actually touch lines in the reticle. Then Gen II mil dot ups that number, but you still cannot get .7 mils and I think .3 mils. *edited because of mental lapse, .2 mil hashes fix this problem (credit goes to David of Optronika for enlightening me)*

3. With reticles that do away with the standard mil dot and just use a hash, the TMR and Nightforce NPR, you loose a solid visual reference to where the 1 mil mark actually is. Instead you have to look for the longer line, which is more difficult under stress. An open mildot with a dot in the center like the NF mildot seems to be the best option. It's similar in concept to having the big thick stadia on the periphery of the reticle.

As far as reticle usage at low powers, well your scope can't be all things to all people, it's the nature of the beast. I wouldn't worry about anything lower than 8 power.

Good luck and see you at SHOT again this year,
Justin
 
#63
Re: March FFP 3x-24x Tactical Scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jackh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">how much does it cost?
</div></div>

If you ask that question, then you can't afford it
grin.gif
 
#65
Re: March FFP 3x-24x Tactical Scope

Some one mentioned that nothing tracks like a March. Guys a scope either tracks right or it does not track right.

March
SxB
Hendsolt
Nightforce
Nikon Tactical
MK4

All track right.

March is my favorite F TR Scope right now, but that does not mean the others are no good. I will TxE a March FFP when I get the chance after Shot Show

NXS is run on most F TR Rigs. Nightfocre BR scopes are on many F Open and BR rifles
Leupold MK4 won F TR World Championships
SxB and Hendsolt have proven themselves many many times in military an d civy world.

No need to smack any other brand.
 
#68
Re: March FFP 3x-24x Tactical Scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Some one mentioned that nothing tracks like a March. Guys a scope eitehr tracks right or it does not tarck right.

March
SxB
Hendsolt
Nightforce
Nikon Tactical
MK4

All track right.

March is my favorite F TR Scope but that does not mean the others are no good. I will TxE a March FFP when I get the chance after Shot Show

NXS is run on most F TR Rigs. Nightfocre BR scopes are on many F Open and BR rifles
Leupold MK4 won F TR World Championships
SxB and Hendsolt have proven themselves many many times in military an d civy world.

No need to smack any other brand.</div></div>

Well said Mike.
 
#69
Re: March FFP 3x-24x Tactical Scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jackh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">how much does it cost?

and dont march scopes only have like a 5 yr warranty? that scares me </div></div>

Let me finish this sentence..."that scares me" outta even considering one!
I was beginning to think I was the only one that noticed this!
 
#70
Re: March FFP 3x-24x Tactical Scope

Just pay March to fix it. Duh... To me, scared is not being able to find any service on it at all should something break.

Do you expect your car to come with a lifetime warranty?
 
#71
Re: March FFP 3x-24x Tactical Scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CanPopper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just pay March to fix it. Duh... To me, scared is not being able to find any service on it at all should something break.

Do you expect your car to come with a lifetime warranty? </div></div>

no, correct me if im wrong, but there are no auto manufacturers that offer that.

however, there are optic manufacturers that offer limited lifetime warranties, so i will stick with those...
 
#72
Re: March FFP 3x-24x Tactical Scope

Just what I am told... Japan based companies can only offer a lifetime warranty if you are a company of X size and show a sizable $$$ backing. A warranty is only as good as the company that offers it, in Japan this is law.

March will fix needed repairs for free after 5 years, which I guess is a unwritten warranty that in reality is as good as any written one. They are working with the regional distributors to offer lifetime warrantees via proxy.

None of us know that NF, USO, PH or S&B will be around in five years. Some of the largest most trusted companies failed over the past few years with little warning to customers.
 
#73
Re: March FFP 3x-24x Tactical Scope

I do not understand the issues with the warranties. It's like this if you want a Ferrari which has a 3 year warranty are you going to pick a KIA instead because it has a 10 year warranty?

Have you ever read a limited lifetime warranty? It pretty much says " we will fix it at our cost, if we want to"

I would much rather have a product that performs, than a piece of paper that says they will fix it when it breaks, if they want.

We have had many customer faults on scopes, like people crushing tubes and dropping scopes on concrete. March has fixed many of these scopes for Free. The only one that has paid, demanded that he pay them, because he crushed the tube.

The real story is that March will take care of you, they want return customers and a good reputation. If it is a manufacturer defect you bet that they will fix that and you wont pay anything other than to ship it.

Thanks and BTW we have some reticle designs in the works, from your suggestions!
 
#76
Re: March FFP 3x-24x Tactical Scope

Thank you Chris Farley:

Tommy: Let's think about this for a sec, Ted. Why would somebody put a guarantee on a box? Hmmm, very interesting.
Ted Nelson, Customer: Go on, I'm listening.
Tommy: Here's the way I see it, Ted. Guy puts a fancy guarantee on a box 'cause he wants you to feel all warm and toasty inside.
Ted Nelson, Customer: Yeah, makes a man feel good.
Tommy: 'Course it does. Why shouldn't it? Ya figure you put that little box under your pillow at night, the Guarantee Fairy might come by and leave a quarter, am I right, Ted?
[chuckles until he sees that Ted is not laughing]
Ted Nelson, Customer: [impatiently] What's your point?
Tommy: The point is, how do you know the fairy isn't a crazy glue sniffer? "Building model airplanes" says the little fairy; well, we're not buying it. He sneaks into your house once, that's all it takes. The next thing you know, there's money missing off the dresser, and your daughter's knocked up. I seen it a hundred times.
Ted Nelson, Customer: But why do they put a guarantee on the box?
Tommy: Because they know all they sold ya was a guaranteed piece of shit. That's all it is, isn't it? Hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, I will. I got spare time. But for now, for your customer's sake, for your daughter's sake, ya might wanna think about buying a quality product from me.
Ted Nelson, Customer: [pause] Okay, I'll buy from you.
 
#79
Re: March FFP 3x-24x Tactical Scope

Yeah i would like to get down to ASC sometime as well. Last year the F-Class nationals was the next week so I did not make it down, i was pretty bummed out!
 
#80
Re: March FFP 3x-24x Tactical Scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scimitar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Damn Eric. How in the hell did you remember that one?
</div></div>

IMDB

Ian- ASC is a MUST DO!!
 
#81
Re: March FFP 3x-24x Tactical Scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 264Charlie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">which I guess is a unwritten warranty that in reality is as good as any written one. </div></div>

how can you be sure of that?

quoted from the IOR website:
"Product Guarantee

All IOR optics and mounts carry a limited lifetime warranty against defects in materials and workmanship. However, any tampering with or disassembly of these products will void the warranty. In the unlikely event that your IOR product requires repair or replacement, package it carefully and ship it to one of the following addresses, depending on your choice of carrier:"

so no, they dont cover me screwing up a scope by crushing the tube or dropping it, but i do not expect a company to be responsible for my bad decisions... they do, however, stand by their product and workmanship for the lifetime of the scope. makes me feel much more comfortable about spending that kind of money on a rifle scope.

just sayin, i would much rather spend $1500 on a scope with a good warranty than over 2 grand on a scope that might be better quality but only has a 5 year warranty and just hope they will fix it 6 years from now.
 
#83
Re: March FFP 3x-24x Tactical Scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CanPopper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you can't afford to get it fixed, you probably can't afford a March anyways. </div></div>

what i can and cant afford is not relevant
 
#84
Re: March FFP 3x-24x Tactical Scope

Does you custom rifle come with a warranty? Does your rings come with a warranty? Does your ammunition come with a warranty?

What i dont grasp is that all the other stuff we use in competition does not have a warranty, but a scope needs one?

You can be sure that they will fix it because I AM TELLING YOU THAT THEY WILL! I would not say this as the sole distributor, if it was not true! March will stand behind their product. You cannot trust a handshake or what? If you give March a try you will understand the hype and you will love the product.
 
#85
Re: March FFP 3x-24x Tactical Scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ian A. Kelbly</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You can be sure that they will fix it because I AM TELLING YOU THAT THEY WILL! I would not say this as the sole distributor, if it was not true! March will stand behind their product. You cannot trust a handshake or what?</div></div>
See, that right there makes me want to do business with you. Personally, I don't give a shit if a company has a lawyer draw up some "warranty" written in 2-point font so that it's too small to be read. What I want is an ACTUAL PERSON who SPEAKS ENGLISH that I can call and say, "Look, here's what happened. Do you think we can get this taken care of?"

That is worth a hell of a lot more to me than a company saying they have a warranty, but it has all these exceptions to it.

I buy Craftsman hand tools, not because I think they are the best tools out there, but because when one breaks, you just walk into any Sears, they hand you a new one, and you walk back out. Nothing could be easier than that.
 
#86
Re: March FFP 3x-24x Tactical Scope

I've been thinking about it a lot since this thread came up and I'm 99% sure that I will buy one of these scopes when they come out and put it on a 700 with a #4 or #5 sporter barrel and a lightweight stock.

While I am not nearly as experienced as some of the other posters in this thread, my "wish list" for this scope would be a smaller center dot (maybe 1/10 mil?) and 10 or 15 mils on the bottom leg of the reticle instead of 5.
 
#87
Re: March FFP 3x-24x Tactical Scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ian A. Kelbly</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does you custom rifle come with a warranty? Does your rings come with a warranty? Does your ammunition come with a warranty?

What i dont grasp is that all the other stuff we use in competition does not have a warranty, but a scope needs one? </div></div>

Ian,

To be fair, NOTHING fails as often as scopes or has such a singly high price tag to replace. Probably not *quite* as often at the pricepoint the March is in, but they still fail.

It would bite to be holding the bill for a $3K scope because it was a month out of warranty. I think that's all people are trying to communicate.

If you and March still believe in handshakes, well, good on you, but people have been bit even with having something in writing. There's a reason that companies employ lawyers. It's not surprising people are cautious.

Personally my concern with something of this nature is, "Will the company still be there in 10 or 12 years if it fails?" This is not pointed directly at March. I own a Vortex Razor and wonder the same of them.

John
 
#88
Re: March FFP 3x-24x Tactical Scope

As a LR hunter i would like to see an improvement in the reticles offered by the companies as well. TMR's great but i don't understand why they put .2 mil in all four quadrants of the reticle--1 horizontal and 1 vertical would've sufficed.

The EBR-2 mrad reticle has three different mil. subtension units broken down into .2 mil in 3 quadrants. I don't see why they just didn't go with 2 quadrants and 1 mil. unit subdivided. Same with the EBR-3 .1 mil units.

March oughtta pick up a Horus version also--maybe make the center dot on existing reticle .1 mil. or at least .2--whenever i see .25 mil (especially with a .1 mil turret) my eyes start to go crosseyed.

Maybe even a 2.5 IPHY or MOA line stadia reticle with .25 IPHY or MOA turret.

Just a couple comments from a LR hunter.
 
#89
Re: March FFP 3x-24x Tactical Scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sniperaviator</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When can I buy a March Tactical 8x80-56?</div></div>

They have been out some time, mine is due towards the end of January. Two coming in IR and non IR both MTR1 rets not fussed ones mine. Why not ask Kelblys they have sold a few.
They are on the dark side but could easilly live with that.

Love the 10-60 and was a tough decision, but for a few dollars more go for the 80. Weights not bad at all plus they only look like a conventional 24 or 32 mag in size.
 
#90
Re: March FFP 3x-24x Tactical Scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ian A. Kelbly</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does you custom rifle come with a warranty? Does your rings come with a warranty? Does your ammunition come with a warranty?

What i dont grasp is that all the other stuff we use in competition does not have a warranty, but a scope needs one? </div></div>

To be fair, NOTHING fails as often as scopes or has such a singly high price tag to replace. Probably not *quite* as often at the pricepoint the March is in, but they still fail.

It would bite to be holding the bill for a $3K scope because it was a month out of warranty. I think that's all people are trying to communicate.

If you and March still believe in handshakes, well, good on you, but people have been bit even with having something in writing. There's a reason that companies employ lawyers. It's not surprising people are cautious.

John</div></div>

this is exactly what i am trying to say. these days, hell no, a handshake and verbal agreement is for damn sure not enough for me to feel comfortable. as sad as it is, thats how things are now. i cannot trust that their scope will be fixed 6 years from now because the distributor told me it would. i need that in writing.

if there really is a non-written sort of understood lifetime warranty, why dont you just put it on paper and be done with it
 
#91
Re: March FFP 3x-24x Tactical Scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jackh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

if there really is a non-written sort of understood lifetime warranty, why dont you just put it on paper and be done with it </div></div>

Japanese law doesn't allow it for small companies.
 
#92
Re: March FFP 3x-24x Tactical Scope

Ok guys. I have said it time and time again. MARCH CANNOT GIVE A LIFETIME WARRANTY!!!!!! By Japanese law they are not legally allowed to offer one, because they are not a large enough company. Also we have tried to offer one, but do to our "Global Society" and trade practices we cannot offer a warranty on a Japanese product!

We have tried time and time and time again to get this for you, but it is ILLEGAL!

Sorry but we have governments that own us and we cannot do anything about it! Sad to say we let them control our businesses like they do!

On the reticle, we have started drawing up another reticle with smaller dot and some extra little add-ons. Once they get a drawing, I will post it right away!
 
#93
Re: March FFP 3x-24x Tactical Scope

Question and not asking to cause problems but what is the longest amount of time that they can warrenty under Japanese law? Maybe it they were allowed and made it 10 or 20 years that would make people feel better about purchasing the product.
 
#95
Re: March FFP 3x-24x Tactical Scope

Ok thanks. Was just trying to see if there was another way around the warrenty pickle.
 
#96
Re: March FFP 3x-24x Tactical Scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ian A. Kelbly</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

On the reticle, we have started drawing up another reticle with smaller dot and some extra little add-ons. Once they get a drawing, I will post it right away! </div></div>

Something very similar to CAPRC reticle will be awesome. I am sure a bunch of CAPRC guys and gals will be buying.
 
#98
Re: March FFP 3x-24x Tactical Scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 264Charlie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How can you be sure IOR will be in business next year? </div></div>

With the state of the current world economy how can you be sure ANYBODY will be in business next year?

There may be warranties, but there are no guarantees.

John
 
#99
Re: March FFP 3x-24x Tactical Scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 264Charlie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How can you be sure IOR will be in business next year? </div></div>

With the state of the current world economy how can you be sure ANYBODY will be in business next year?

There may be warranties, but there are no guarantees.

John </div></div>

Very well said.
 
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Optics ***UPDATED LIST*** OPTICS For Sale... US Optics, NF, S&B, Meopta, Zeiss, ATN, Leupold, BORS, March, Zeiss, Elcan and more.
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Rpatton73
Rpatton73
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