Mechanics of shooting bolt vs. semi

[Bigjake83]

Today's range work:

View attachment 7085080View attachment 7085081View attachment 7085085

Would you look at that, turns out he just can't shoot for Shit.

Anyone else happened to notice he posted the same picture twice so his best group that he claims on his spreadsheet isn't even there to view.

It's also quite amusing he even added a four-shot group column so he could deduct his flyers...lol

 

[Spblademaker]

I’ve never had to do that much load development for a barrel. 50+ loads plus factory ammo. To hell with that shit.

 

[MontanaMan]

I suspect John is going to shoot your barrel, send it back, and tell you to work on your fundamentals.

Best line in this thread so far.

Whatever happened to the 2x10 shot requirements for a gun to be called "MOA" ?

MM

 

[Triple D]

Would you look at that, turns out he just can't shoot for Shit.

Maybe he just doesn’t have a good rear bag?

OP, what bag are you using?

 

[garandman]

Maybe he just doesn’t have a good rear bag?

OP, what bag are you using?

See pics on Pg 1. I've got 3 good loads to 5x5 test.

My read bag is competition grade. Its G-T-G. Thanx.

 

[garandman]

I’ve never had to do that much load development for a barrel. 50+ loads plus factory ammo. To hell with that shit.

See pics pg. 1.

 

[Triple D]

See pics on Pg 1. I've got 3 good loads to 5x5 test.

My read bag is competition grade. Its G-T-G. Thanx.

No pics. Guessing you’re using a V style rear bag? Something that cradles and supports the rifle?

 

[garandman]

No pics. Guessing you’re using a V style rear bag? Something that cradles and supports the rifle?

Yep.

 

[Bigjake83]

No pics. Guessing you’re using a V style rear bag? Something that cradles and supports the rifle?

don't worry I saved his pictures in case he decides to change his story again...lol

 

[garandman]

The one on the left. Very similar.

 

[garandman]

No pics. Guessing you’re using a V style rear bag? Something that cradles and supports the rifle?

Its been lost in all this (I said this above) , but I think the previous inaccuracy problems were the bullets - too light. 68 - 70 grain for a 1:8 tube.


Today I got 3 good loads to test using 73 and 77 grain.

We shall see.

 

[RTH1800]

How is he still here?

 

[MontanaMan]

but I think the previous inaccuracy problems were the bullets - too light. 68 - 70 grain for a 1:8 tube.

Truly, you cannot be serious with that comment..............................just sayin.

And after a statement like that, it's pretty doubtful that anyone can take you seriously either.

MM

 

[garandman]

The petty childish crap some ppl shovel out....


Anyone who has EVER done actual hand laoding knows some boolits just don't run well in some guns. I chased and chased the light (er) boolits, and got nothing concrete desite more than 50 diferent loads for a half dozen differents boolits.. I run some of the heavier stuff of two different boolits, and come on to 3 decent loads in a single day.

ANYONE with a brain woulddraw the painfully obvius conclusion - go with the 73 - 77 gr boolits. But SOME ppl.....

I'm VERY pleased with todays results, and childish haters ain't gonna bring me down.

Anyway I got some serious work to do to load up and test the 3 nodes found.

 

[Lowlight]

those groups are shooter error

 

[garandman]

those groups are shooter error

Yup. If I was any good at all, they'd all be 0.150" groups. I suck.

 

[Lowlight]

You do suck, considering it's a mouse gun you are shooting

Factory Ammo, factory gun,

And in case you think it was a one-off, here at a class I brought my factory Valkyrie and shot factory American Eagle 75gr

The gun doesn't like the bullets excuse is comical at best.

That is not two rounds either I only kept seeing one hole so I moved to make sure something wasn't amiss, was shot in a crowd at my class in Alaska.

 

[Lowlight]

its called trigger control try it

 

[Lowlight]

All about the fundamentals

A precision AR must be shot as a precision rifle and not a semi-auto, door kickers are great, but it's not gonna get the job done at distance

 

[Bigjake83]

You do suck, considering it's a mouse gun you are shooting

 

[Bigjake83]

View attachment 7085155

That is not two rounds either I only kept seeing one hole so I moved to make sure something wasn't amiss, was shot in a crowd at my class in Alaska.

 

[m1marty]

Something I have noticed with a few of my gas guns (and being germane to your topic Re "fundamentals don't matter"):
I can drive them hard and get good groups. That means firm grip, pull into pocket, focus on squeeze and hold to the rear for an exaggerated amount of time.
Now if I limp dick them (soft grip, almost free recoil/light pocket contact, tap trigger), they shoot like hammered dog shit. Same guns, same ammo, same time frame at the range.
Curious as to why OP thinks that is?

 

[Bigjake83]

Okay now that I got that out of my system I have a question for you Frank.

Now that you've had adequate time running the 6.5 Creedmoor and the 224 valkyrie in your JP systems, would you say that semi-autos are bridging the gap as precision rifles enough to use them as a standard platform in competition or will bolt rifles always have the edge in PRS style matches?

 

[Lowlight]

the hits aren't great, but at 1425 yards, a hit is a hit right

If you are not using the trigger reset, that loud audible click, you cannot get precision

 

[garandman]

Internet opinions. For some reason the computer fills ppl with piss and vinegar. Ppl who would act decently and with respect face to face,

YOu stink of urine and vinegar.

I know what happenned in my range sessions, and that of other reloaders I personally know and trust, who don't feel the need to thump their chest, so internet opinions are laughable.

What's TRULY laughable is you trotting out a Valkyrie vs. a .223 AR15. Are you familair with teh concept of G1 / G7 ballistic coefficient? TOTALLY different in the two guns.

Good grief. What an idiotic post.

 

[bourbonbent]

I’ve met Frank, and he’d say all that to your face.

I doubt you’d say any of that to him though.

 

[garandman]

Something I have noticed with a few of my gas guns (and being germane to your topic Re "fundamentals don't matter"):
I can drive them hard and get good groups. That means firm grip, pull into pocket, focus on squeeze and hold to the rear for an exaggerated amount of time.
Now if I limp dick them (soft grip, almost free recoil/light pocket contact, tap trigger), they shoot like hammered dog shit. Same guns, same ammo, same time frame at the range.
Curious as to why OP thinks that is?

WHo said fundamentals don't matter?

Not me.

Quote me whereI did.

Here's a novel concept.... don't beleive the words ppl put in my mouth and the strawmen they create .

OF COURSE FUNDAMENTALS MATTER. WHat *** I *** said is gas and bolt fundamentals are mostly the same.

 

[garandman]

I’ve met Frank, and he’d say all that to your face.

I doubt you’d say any of that to him though.

SMH. Piss and vinegar.

 

[garandman]

I now remember why I took 5 years off from this forum. SMH.

 

[lash]

He won’t see this, but what he exactly said originally was, “Pulling the trigger on a bolt rifle and a semi are EXACTLY the same.” He deleted that after crying (as he still is) about the rude guys who didn’t agree with him. He keeps changing the statement as he gets further and further into this rabbit hole he cannot extract himself from.

 

[bourbonbent]

I know your type. You talk a lot, but you don’t ever really say anything.

You also have exceptionally thin skin, and are belligerently reactive to almost any person who attempts to interact with you. I say this without malice, I believe you should consider finding someone to talk to about whatever has you this upset. Because frankly, this is a disproportionate reaction to people disagreeing with you.

 

[Lowlight]

I shot the Guardian Long Range match in TN last year with the Valkyrie, the same week the 88s came out,

came in 12th without really trying, shot 3 stages in high heels and did more socializing vs worrying about the score.

Adam R, Mike M, and Brian Whalen have all won our local Pawnee match with a Valkyrie.

I think it is viable on a lot of levels but the odds of someone doing well with a semi-auto is gonna take practice.

I built the 224 Boltgun because I dig it,

The issue is, after 600 yards you have to be on your A-Game because the wind will start to really appear. It will not be linear, it's like edge of the plate, edge of the plate, and then at 700, you have to use 1.5 mils of wind while all the other calibers are holding .5 or less

 

[garandman]

I know your type. You talk a lot, but you don’t ever really say anything.

You also have exceptionally thin skin, and are belligerently reactive to almost any person who attempts to interact with you. I say this without malice, I believe you should consider finding someone to talk to about whatever has you this upset. Because frankly, this is a disproportionate reaction to people disagreeing with you.

So why are you still here? You seem to be EXACTLY what you are sayign about me. GOTTA thump your chest. GOTTA havge the last word. GOTTAbe an internet badass.

Just leave. Quit stalking me / responding.

SMH

 

[garandman]

I shot the Guardian Long Range match in TN last year with the Valkyrie, the same week the 88s came out,

Nice gun. Golf clap for your 12th place. The heels are TOTALLY you.


STILL can't believe you actually compared a Valkyrie against a standard AR15. That was genuinely bonehead. SMH

 

[Bigjake83]

He won’t see this, but what he exactly said originally was, “Pulling the trigger on a bolt rifle and a semi are EXACTLY the same.” He deleted that after crying (as he still is) about the rude guys who didn’t agree with him. He keeps changing the statement as he gets further and further into this rabbit hole he cannot extract himself from.

Don't worry brother I got you covered I took screenshots of all his bullshit...lol

 

[bourbonbent]

What chest thumping, friend? How is expressing concern for a fellow Hide member being an internet badass? Do you know what day it is today, and what it means for a lot of us here?

I really think you’re misinterpreting 90% of what’s being said here, if there’s something you want to talk about just PM me, everyone has off days and it’s okay to admit that.

 

[Lowlight]

there is a huge difference in trigger control ...

cant reset a trigger on a bolt gun and if you are not resetting the trigger on a semi, you'll never have precision.

 

[garandman]

What chest thumping, friend? How is expressing concern for a fellow Hide member being an internet badass? Do you know what day it is today, and what it means for a lot of us here?

I really think you’re misinterpreting 90% of what’s being said here, if there’s something you want to talk about just PM me, everyone has off days and it’s okay to admit that.

HArd pass. Bye.

 

[Precision Underground]

My previous AR that is now a Valkyrie is #8 on barfcom moa all day thread at 1/2 moa. A gas gun doesn’t take different mechanics, it takes more discipline. The 1/100th of a second you are talking about doesn’t matter if your mechanics are good and you are not flinching. If the opposite is true the fraction of a second does matter.

 

[garandman]

there is a huge difference in trigger control ...

cant reset a trigger on a bolt gun and if you are not resetting the trigger on a semi, you'll never have precision.

I just today found three nodes in the 0.400 - 0.600 range. Which means I really haven't even started load development.

Relax.

 

[Triple D]

Yeah. He didn’t believe me then, and likely doesn’t believe me now, but it’s evident on his target. Lots of loads showing vertical....where does that come from I wonder??

And with a V style bag, I’d be pissed if I couldn’t get down sub .3moa. Those bags are like cheating.

 

[Bigjake83]

I'D HIT THAT!!....

True story about the high heels, Lady Gaga left them under Franks bed from the night before.

 

[Constructor]

Well dang first I ran out of popcorn, then tequila then someone showed up with banana pudding. I had to look at the top of the page cause I could've sworn I was on barfcom.

 

[garandman]

My previous AR that is now a Valkyrie is #8 on barfcom moa all day thread at 1/2 moa. A gas gun doesn’t take different mechanics, it takes more discipline. The 1/100th of a second you are talking about doesn’t matter if your mechanics are good and you are not flinching. If the opposite is true the fraction of a second does matter.

Of course. In bolt or semi, you don't want to introduce any movement btwn when the trigger releases and when the boolit leaves the barrel.

That a millisecond longer time span in a semi.


I've never said otherwise.

 

[garandman]

Yeah. He didn’t believe me then, and likely doesn’t believe me now, but it’s evident on his target. Lots of loads showing vertical....where does that come from I wonder??

And with a V style bag, I’d be pissed if I couldn’t get down sub .3moa. Those bags are like cheating.

LOL ....internet bragging. Pathetic. Typical of those who do most of their shooting on video games.

Dude.... get over yourself.

 

[garandman]

At any rate..... I'm done here. I'm happy with the nodes I've found and can start testing / improving.

That's the cue for all the internet authorities and tuff guys to get their parting shots in.

But they won't be seem by me.

Out.

 

[Bigjake83]

At any rate..... I'm done here. I'm happy with the nodes I've found and can start testing / improving.

That's the cue for all the internet authorities and tuff guys to get their parting shots in.

But they won't be seem by me.

Out.

 

[bourbonbent]

View attachment 7085217

3...2...1...

 

[Triple D]

LOL ....internet bragging. Pathetic.

Dude.... get over yourself.

Haha. That’s comical. All you’ve done is brag, but you’ve done nothing that is really impressive. My girlfriend yields groups similar or better to yours with an AR and a small rear bag.

 

[Triple D]

View attachment 7085217

He was politely telling us that his mom wanted him to jump off of the computer.