Rifle Scopes MOA vs Mil.

[Huskydriver]

It's the fastest way to get hits on target especially with multiple Targets at varying distances. It's also great for letting go of the whole how many inches did I miss by crap. If the scope is ffp which I believe most Christmas tree or holdover style reticles are, the units in the reticle are the measuring unit regardless of distance regardless of power setting.

So if you miss by 1 mil to the right you observe that the bullet strike landed near the 1 mil tick Mark in the scope and can choose to either dial 1 mil to correct the shot or you can simply slide the rifle over so that the 1 mil Mark is now the point if aim over the target in about .035 seconds.

No inches, no centimeters, no conversions, just observe, correct, and shoot. Too flipping easy. Doesn't matter if I'm at 2500 yards, 1.7 nautical miles or 85 meters a mil is a mil and a moa is an moa in the reticle.

The hold over reticle is super handy for spotting other guys shots too for the same reason above. Just measure, correct, and shoot. Doneski

 

[Dthomas3523]

OK, I’ll bite. How do you like the Christmas tree reticle??? Been considering one

I use both, non tree, and tree reticles.

I use a tree as a utility. As in, I dial elevation for everything I can. If the stage is a no dial, or has low time with multiple targets(no time to dial), then I use it.

For me, it’s something to have as a backup, but not as my main way of engagement.

I will not own a reticle that doesn’t have at least .2 on the main windage horizontal though.

If you adopt a style of shooting where you hold for everything, look into mil-xt, amr, h59, tremor3 reticles. Or something in that ballpark. You want to be as precise as possible with you main way of engagement.

IMO, buying something like a skmr3(my preferred tree) and trying to hold everything is not a good idea as the tree is minamal and doesn’t break holds down very precise.

And of course you can hold with regular reticles, it’s just not as easy as it’s empty space if you get too far away from center.

 

[OG10]

Mil vs Moa...... no not again......

 

[Sean the Nailer]

but what if your MIL scope only comes in a 1" tube,,,, and the MOA scope comes with a 30mm tube? Can one of those go on the .308 and the other on the 7.62?

Asking for a friend..... HA

 

[Veer_G]

 

[...]

but what if your MIL scope only comes in a 1" tube,,,, and the MOA scope comes with a 30mm tube? Can one of those go on the .308 and the other on the 7.62?

Asking for a friend..... HA

i just compromise and buy a scope with a MIL reticle and MOA turrets

 

[TheGerman]

OK, I’ll bite. How do you like the Christmas tree reticle??? Been considering one

You have to make another post and ask about what reticle.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

You have to remember that 308 only works in MOA/inches and 6.5 only works in MIL/metric. Let your cartridge decide.

What cartridge do you shoot? Is it imperial or metric?

Now you've brought a whole new conundrum to light.
What unit of measurement do I need to use when shooting 12ga slugs over 150 yards?!?

 

[Veer_G]

Now you've brought a whole new conundrum to light.
What unit of measurement do I need to use when shooting 12ga slugs over 150 yards?!?

Given that 12ga slugs are approximately the size of a testicle, measurement conventions would be quite rigidly exclusionary in a prejudicial fashion against certain genetically challenged parties, and aspects of the effect of aging on angle and dangle would come into play when calculating trajectory, otherwise known as the "McGinty Factor."

 

[treillw]

I gotta say, yall are the meanest people I've come across on internet forums - and that says a lot! It doesn't matter if you use divisions of a cheese wedge to measure angle, as long as you are consistent and know what you are dealing with.

I like MOA because 95% of the people I know don't have a spotting or rifle scope with capabilities to perform any angular measurements. Any correction calls I get are going to be in inches and I need to do the mental math quickly to figure out how to adjust my scope before my target runs away.

Consider this. You are shooting at a wolf at 600 yards across a windy canyon. Pretty much a once in a lifetime opportunity. You shoot. Your crazy uncle Timmy is watching through his $250 rifle scope and tells you that you were a foot and a half to the left. What do you correct your MRAD scope to? You have 10 seconds until the wolf runs. Once in a lifetime opportunity. No pressure. Show your work.

 

[Huskydriver]

I gotta say, yall are the meanest people I've come across on internet forums - and that says a lot! It doesn't matter if you use divisions of a cheese wedge to measure angle, as long as you are consistent and know what you are dealing with.

I like MOA because 95% of the people I know don't have a spotting or rifle scope with capabilities to perform any angular measurements. Any correction calls I get are going to be in inches and I need to do the mental math quickly to figure out how to adjust my scope before my target runs away.

Consider this. You are shooting at a wolf at 600 yards across a windy canyon. Pretty much a once in a lifetime opportunity. You shoot. Your crazy uncle Timmy is watching through his $250 rifle scope and tells you that you were a foot and a half to the left. What do you correct your MRAD scope to? You have 10 seconds until the wolf runs. Once in a lifetime opportunity. No pressure. Show your work.

Please see post #152 I just answered this exact question...I would simply observe that I missed by .83 mils or 2.86 moa since I measured it in my scope and rengage.

First off I wouldn't have measured the miss in inches. Then I would have oh I dunno maybe used the flipping reticle to measure how far I missed by and corrected using the reticle units for the same amount. I then would have told Uncle Timmy to go be poor somewhere else @TheGerman and leave his pos scope at home I got this chief.

 

[lash]

I gotta say, yall are the meanest people I've come across on internet forums - and that says a lot! It doesn't matter if you use divisions of a cheese wedge to measure angle, as long as you are consistent and know what you are dealing with.

I like MOA because 95% of the people I know don't have a spotting or rifle scope with capabilities to perform any angular measurements. Any correction calls I get are going to be in inches and I need to do the mental math quickly to figure out how to adjust my scope before my target runs away.

Consider this. You are shooting at a wolf at 600 yards across a windy canyon. Pretty much a once in a lifetime opportunity. You shoot. Your crazy uncle Timmy is watching through his $250 rifle scope and tells you that you were a foot and a half to the left. What do you correct your MRAD scope to? You have 10 seconds until the wolf runs. Once in a lifetime opportunity. No pressure. Show your work.

Simple, I’m watching for my own impact at 600 yards and can correct pretty much immediately without relying on crazy uncle Timmy. If he can see my miss splash with his $250 rifle scope, then I will see it with mine.

Edit: see Husky’s answer above. Typing at same time.

 

[dirthead1]

I gotta say, yall are the meanest people I've come across on internet forums - and that says a lot! It doesn't matter if you use divisions of a cheese wedge to measure angle, as long as you are consistent and know what you are dealing with.

I like MOA because 95% of the people I know don't have a spotting or rifle scope with capabilities to perform any angular measurements. Any correction calls I get are going to be in inches and I need to do the mental math quickly to figure out how to adjust my scope before my target runs away.

Consider this. You are shooting at a wolf at 600 yards across a windy canyon. Pretty much a once in a lifetime opportunity. You shoot. Your crazy uncle Timmy is watching through his $250 rifle scope and tells you that you were a foot and a half to the left. What do you correct your MRAD scope to? You have 10 seconds until the wolf runs. Once in a lifetime opportunity. No pressure. Show your work.

How did crazy uncle Timmy measure that foot and a half?

 

[Veer_G]

How did crazy uncle Timmy measure that foot and a half?

 

[treillw]

Simple, I’m watching for my own impact at 600 yards and can correct pretty much immediately without relying on crazy uncle Timmy. If he can see my miss splash with his $250 rifle scope, then I will see it with mine.

You're shooting a 7.5 pound 300 win mag. You don't see your bullet impact. You just crested the 8000' saddle at mile number 16 for the day - your 15 pound 6.5 is at home in the closet.

 

[AIAW]

I'm literally fucking crying... holy shit, ROFL!!!

 

[2ndamendfan]

I gotta say, yall are the meanest people I've come across on internet forums - and that says a lot! It doesn't matter if you use divisions of a cheese wedge to measure angle, as long as you are consistent and know what you are dealing with.

I like MOA because 95% of the people I know don't have a spotting or rifle scope with capabilities to perform any angular measurements. Any correction calls I get are going to be in inches and I need to do the mental math quickly to figure out how to adjust my scope before my target runs away.

Consider this. You are shooting at a wolf at 600 yards across a windy canyon. Pretty much a once in a lifetime opportunity. You shoot. Your crazy uncle Timmy is watching through his $250 rifle scope and tells you that you were a foot and a half to the left. What do you correct your MRAD scope to? You have 10 seconds until the wolf runs. Once in a lifetime opportunity. No pressure. Show your work.

You sir are a dumb ass. If anyone spots for you and gives you any corrections in a distance measuring system you need to beat the living fuck out of him with said $250 scope.

When you got the correction in inches, what did you dial? 25 "clicks" is a lot different at 100yd vs 600 yds.

 

[Huskydriver]

You're shooting a 7.5 pound 300 win mag. You don't see your bullet impact. You just crested the 8000' saddle at mile number 16 for the day - your 15 pound 6.5 is at home in the closet.

Okay after Uncle Timmy saves some nickles he buys a FFP scope with measuring marks again... My posts above apply...I wanna know how you did your wind math on the initial shot with your moa scoe and it might explain how you missed so big on a chip shot at 600 with a big ole fast 300 wm?

 

[2ndamendfan]

I gotta say, yall are the meanest people I've come across on internet forums - and that says a lot! It doesn't matter if you use divisions of a cheese wedge to measure angle, as long as you are consistent and know what you are dealing with.

I like MOA because 95% of the people I know don't have a spotting or rifle scope with capabilities to perform any angular measurements. Any correction calls I get are going to be in inches and I need to do the mental math quickly to figure out how to adjust my scope before my target runs away.

Consider this. You are shooting at a wolf at 600 yards across a windy canyon. Pretty much a once in a lifetime opportunity. You shoot. Your crazy uncle Timmy is watching through his $250 rifle scope and tells you that you were a foot and a half to the left. What do you correct your MRAD scope to? You have 10 seconds until the wolf runs. Once in a lifetime opportunity. No pressure. Show your work.

You are going to be so pissed at yourself when it finally hits you.

 

[THEIS]

Consider this. You are shooting at a wolf at 600 yards across a windy canyon. Pretty much a once in a lifetime opportunity. You shoot. Your crazy uncle Timmy is watching through his $250 rifle scope and tells you that you were a foot and a half to the left. What do you correct your MRAD scope to? You have 10 seconds until the wolf runs. Once in a lifetime opportunity. No pressure. Show your work.

Hi,

I will go with "Make sure you can hit that {once in a lifetime} target before taking the shot" for $1000 Alex. And leave Timmy home IF he cannot plan for better equipment for said "Once in a lifetime" opportunity.

So you are saying the wolf just stands there AFTER you miss by a foot and half, with the canyon echo of a 300WM right?

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[treillw]

You sir are a dumb ass. If anyone spots for you and gives you any corrections in a distance measuring system you need to beat the living fuck out of him with said $250 scope.

When you got the correction in inches, what did you dial? 25 "clicks" is a lot different at 100yd vs 600 yds.

I have no control over the equipment that the people I may happen to be hunting/shooting with have - I'll take whatever information they can give me with gladness.

No, you dial 3 moa. It's simple. 18/6. I'm still waiting to see how many MRADs to dial.......... don't forget to show your work

I wanna know how you did your wind math on the initial shot with your moa scoe and it might explain how you missed so big on a chip shot at 600 with a big ole fast 300 wm?

Did the initial wind math with a kestrel. Apparently you haven't shot in the mountains out west. The wind doesn't travel at a uniform velocity from point A to point B, especially across a canyon. It can also blow hard enough to knock you on your keister.

 

[TheGerman]

I gotta say, yall are the meanest people I've come across on internet forums - and that says a lot! It doesn't matter if you use divisions of a cheese wedge to measure angle, as long as you are consistent and know what you are dealing with.

I like MOA because 95% of the people I know don't have a spotting or rifle scope with capabilities to perform any angular measurements. Any correction calls I get are going to be in inches and I need to do the mental math quickly to figure out how to adjust my scope before my target runs away.

Consider this. You are shooting at a wolf at 600 yards across a windy canyon. Pretty much a once in a lifetime opportunity. You shoot. Your crazy uncle Timmy is watching through his $250 rifle scope and tells you that you were a foot and a half to the left. What do you correct your MRAD scope to? You have 10 seconds until the wolf runs. Once in a lifetime opportunity. No pressure. Show your work.

This isn't a word problem; this is a total failure to plan which led to a failure of mission.

Uncle Timmah wouldn't be allowed to bring his poverty scope with him. This is solved as an equipment issue before even leaving the house.

I could pogo stick my way to the store, but why wouldn't I just get in my fucking car?

 

[308pirate]

Not to convolute this any further, but if you use 7.62x51 vs .308 in your, well, .308,

STOP

7.62X51 will not chamber in a 308. The internet told me so.

 

[B-P-UU]

Did the initial wind math with a kestrel. Apparently you haven't shot in the mountains out west. The wind doesn't travel at a uniform velocity from point A to point B, especially across a canyon. It can also blow hard enough to knock you on your keister.

Understand, but you missed your wind call by like 10-12 mph full value???

 

[L2bravo]

You're shooting a 7.5 pound 300 win mag. You don't see your bullet impact. You just crested the 8000' saddle at mile number 16 for the day - your 15 pound 6.5 is at home in the closet.

How’s this......so between ARs and pistols, I’ve shot roughly well over 100,000 rounds in the last 8-9 years. Easily in fact. The long range game is my last frontier. I’m as rookie as they get here. So let’s play along.

I don’t want to get into the linear angle click value measurement argument that I started here. But we can all agree for every click, it has a measurement value. .1 mil is .36” @ 100. So 3 is an inch. X 6 is 6”. 9 clicks.....BOOM.

Sounds like you ranging and wind calls need work son. Btw, I’m a rookie as they get and even I know my dope. This little exercise took me 3 seconds. I’d worry more about uncle Timmy’s effed eyes and spotting with his tasco.

 

[308pirate]

You are shooting at a wolf at 600 yards across a windy canyon. Pretty much a once in a lifetime opportunity. Your crazy uncle Timmy is watching through his $250 rifle scope and tells you that you were a foot and a half to the left. What do you correct your MRAD scope to? You have 10 seconds until the wolf runs. Once in a lifetime opportunity. No pressure. Show your work.

18 inches at 600 yards is roughly 3 minutes. I need to come 3 minutes right, 1 mil = 3.4 minutes so I come right .9 mils and kill the wolf.

You're not as good as you think you are and we're not as stupid as you think we are.

 

[308pirate]

You're shooting a 7.5 pound 300 win mag.

Only an idiot carries a rifle like that when a 7.5 lb 6.5 Creedmoor delivers the same killing blow 600 yds away with half the recoil

 

[treillw]

Understand, but you missed your wind call by like 10-12 mph full value???

Sure, I am an idiot, remember!?

 

[L2bravo]

18 inches at 600 yards is roughly 3 minutes. I need to come 3 minutes right, 1 mil = 3.4 minutes so I come right .9 mils and kill the wolf.

You're not as good as you think you are and we're not as stupid as you think we are.

I’m not that dumb and you’re not that smart… LMAO. How’s that for mean? I spent 23 years in a firehouse. I know mean, and speak it fluently.

 

[treillw]

Only an idiot carries a rifle like that when a 7.5 lb 6.5 Creedmoor delivers the same killing blow 600 yds away with half the recoil

An idiot that likes to kill elk.

Same killing power?? Comical.

 

[308pirate]

I’m not that dumb and you’re not that smart… LMAO. How’s that for mean? I spent 23 years in a firehouse. I know mean, and speak it fluently.

You'll fit in just fine around here.

Fudds.....not so much

 

[2ndamendfan]

I have no control over the equipment that the people I may happen to be hunting/shooting with have - I'll take whatever information they can give me with gladness.

No, you dial 3 moa. It's simple. 18/6. I'm still waiting to see how many MRADs to dial.......... don't forget to show your work




Did the initial wind math with a kestrel. Apparently you haven't shot in the mountains out west. The wind doesn't travel at a uniform velocity from point A to point B, especially across a canyon. It can also blow hard enough to knock you on your keister.

I can barely stand it anymore.
blue is your POA
Red is your POI
You can either hold at the Red dot (POI becomes next POA) for an instant solution, or you can dial 5.2 MILS, MOA what ever your turrets are (as long as they match the reticle of course). Correct call would be come up 5.2 . How in the hell did you sight in your rifle?
Wind works the same way, hold or dial

 

[Fig]

What's really going to mess with your head are all the SH idiots who mount a Mil/Mil scope on a 20 or 30 MOA rail!!!

The ONLY way you can do it right is to put your Mil/Mil scope in a Sphur mount, because they're the only ones that come in 3, 6, 9, and 13 Mil elevations.

I saw a guy try to mount a Mil scope on a MOA base and it blew up in his face as soon as he tightened up the bolts. True story.

 

[JLP.Payette]

I started using MOA and was reluctant to switch to MILs. I have to say Im glad I switched, its much easier to remember your dope and you truly do dial faster. I wish I would've jumped on board years ago. I still have some MOA scopes and can speak both "languages" but if your going to shoot competitively Id go MILS.

 

[Spblademaker]

Uncle Timmy has been an alcoholic for the past 15 yrs, since the factory shut down. The only reason you brought him with you was to make his wife STFU about getting him out of the house. Probably so she can bang the neighbor. Not sure how, though since she’s packed on the pounds eating macaroni and cheese every night. Get a job Timmy. Our family hates you.

 

[supercorndogs]

Oops. I hit it on the first shot. Crazy uncle Timmy is seeing shit.

 

[treillw]

18 inches at 600 yards is roughly 3 minutes. I need to come 3 minutes right, 1 mil = 3.4 minutes so I come right .9 mils and kill the wolf.

You're not as good as you think you are and we're not as stupid as you think we are.

I'm not saying your stupid or that it can't be done with mils. Just pointing out that it is easier with MOA - you did the calculation in MOA, and then converted it to mils. That's an extra mental math step that I don't care to mess with and very telling that it is easier to do in MOA.

 

[308pirate]

I'm not saying your stupid or that it can't be done with mils. Just pointing out that it is easier with MOA - you did the calculation in MOA, and then converted it to mils. That's an extra mental math step that I don't care to mess with and very telling that it is easier to do in MOA.

I wouldn't be doing any fucking math anyway because of the rifle, caliber, and optics I choose.

 

[treillw]

I wouldn't be doing any fucking math anyway because of the rifle, caliber, and optics I choose.

Well you might not have a blood trail to follow on an elk either.

 

[dirthead1]

................I'M GOING TO START DRINKING NOW....................

 

[supercorndogs]

I'm not saying your stupid or that it can't be done with mils. Just pointing out that it is easier with MOA - you did the calculation in MOA, and then converted it to mils. That's an extra mental math step that I don't care to mess with and very telling that it is easier to do in MOA.

You scenarios are very telling, in that you spend more time thinking about this stuff, than actually doing it.

 

[treillw]

You scenarios are very telling, in that you spend more time thinking about this stuff, than actually doing it.

That's probably a true statement. Unfortunately I have to work and don't get to hunt and shoot every day.

 

[Lawless]

Given that 12ga slugs are approximately the size of a testicle, measurement conventions would be quite rigidly exclusionary in a prejudicial fashion against certain genetically challenged parties, and aspects of the effect of aging on angle and dangle would come into play when calculating trajectory, otherwise known as the "McGinty Factor."

 

[supercorndogs]

That's probably a true statement. Unfortunately I have to work and don't get to hunt and shoot every day.

We all work Tarzan. We don't all sit around trying to think up stupid points to make ourselves think one angular measurement is better than another. And come up with ridiculous situations to lend support to our fucktared arguments. the reason MOA might be better MIL is your shooting partner has an MOA scope with an MOA reticle.

 

[TheGerman]

We all work Tarzan. We don't all sit around trying to think up stupid points to make ourselves think one angular measure meant is better than another. And come up with ridiculous situations to lend support to our fucktared arguments. the reason MOA might be better MIL is your shooting partner has an MOA scope with an MOA reticle.

What is this 'work' thing you speak of?

 

[treillw]

Both systems have advantages. Neither are going anywhere. You don't have to use the same thing as me. You don't have to hate and be hostile towards something that is different.

My work here is done. Peace.

 

[supercorndogs]

Neither system has an advantage per say.

 

[supercorndogs]

What is this 'work' thing you speak of?

Its bull shit, thats what it is.....

 

[TheGerman]

Both systems have advantages. Neither are going anywhere. You don't have to use the same thing as me. You don't have to hate and be hostile towards something that is different.

My work here is done. Peace.

You should do a marketing campaign for the return of the Leupold Mk4 and its MOA turrets with MIL reticle.

 

[Veer_G]

Bastard wasn't supposed to have made it out alive.