Mrgunsngear and other youtube idiots

[stilesg57]

Tim at MAC has gone WAYYYYY out of his way to be 100% transparent about his relationships with manufacturers, esp on Patreon. Way more than I would be about my business.

It’s not his fault you don’t read any of that information but then read one marketing material (that’s trying to ride off HIM btw) from an unaffiliated company and treat it like a conspiracy theory.

 

[Fig]

I don't think that's it at all. Just if it's a commercial for a product then lets see the logo and a simple "sponsored by" statement on the video. Did you have to read the fine print on the ShamWow to figure out it's an infomercial? That's not being up front. I never read shit on youtube. I just watch the thing and don't care.

When pro atheletes make a Nike commercial it IS a commercial. It is not them on youtube acting like they're just reviewing Nike sneakers. They wear them too. I know they're paid to wear them, but I would bet that they would wear something else if they sucked and it impacted their performance on the field. So really, they ARE good enough that the pros are wearing the product on game day; yes, paid endorsement, but real endorsement too.

These guys are doing the same thing, but they're making it look like it's a review and not a commercial. I am certainly not saying they're hocking faulty stuff to try and rip people off, but if the bad reviews don't make it to the channel because they're paid for we need to see, or at least know, that too.

HMFIC reviews stuff in conjunction with the manufacturers and suppliers, and he gets free stuff, but that doesn't mean I don't trust him. It just means that if I'm on the MFG side and going to give him something to review I had better be dam sure it is a bulletproof thing, and he's not going to MF it. I would say these guys are same, but they should do a better job of being upfront in their actual videos, because I was not aware of any of this.

I'm not a fan boy of any of those guys anyway, and feel like I don't have a dog in the hunt, but I do see how some people could be very disillusioned by the revelation that they're paid "social influencers" rather than guys like us making a buck on the side by reviewing gear. I guess how polished some of the production is should be a tipoff...

I guess I just can't bring myself to get bent out of shape over this. I didn't know, but I'm not terribly surprised. This is especially true with youtube demonetizing anything they don't like.

 

[BrigandActual]

By law, people talking about or reviewing something have to make the nature of that relationship clear. That's why you see people like MAC or GT going out of their way to explain sponsorships, who provided what equipment, and all of that.

This is the nature of creating stuff on the internet. Everyone wants unbiased reviews and information, but they want it for free. The people making videos, podcasts, and blog articles only have so many resources do to that stuff. If they're totally reliant on their personal incomes, then producing regular reviews of just about anything isn't going to happen. As these folks get bigger and bigger, the expectations for quality and frequency increases to where they practically have to make it their full-time job.

The best option is the direct support model via Patreon, Ko-Fi, or others, but the hard truth is that vanishingly few consumers will do that. Historically, that's less than 1% willing to contribute anything, much less enough to buy a new gun/optic/whatever every few weeks to review or replace a full-time-job income.

So what's a producer to do? They have to turn to the manufacturers and networks to help acquire samples, even if at a discount.

In the end, if anyone complaining about this has never actually thought about helping one of these producers out, then there really isn't room to complain that they start taking money or product from companies that offer it.

 

[*rim-star*]

Most (not all) You Tube firearm videos I have watched were done by people who are very amateurish or plain didn't know what they were talking about. I am no professional myself, but I also am not on You Tube claiming to be either.

 

[stilesg57]

...When pro atheletes make a Nike commercial it IS a commercial. It is not them on youtube acting like they're just reviewing Nike sneakers...These guys are doing the same thing, but they're making it look like it's a review and not a commercial. I am certainly not saying they're hocking faulty stuff to try and rip people off, but if the bad reviews don't make it to the channel because they're paid for we need to see, or at least know, that too...they're paid "social influencers" rather than guys like us making a buck on the side by reviewing gear.

But that’s NOT what Tim at MAC is doing, and he shouldn’t be lumped in with those that are. Some youtubers do what you’ve described, some don’t. Not fair to loop them all in together because of some other marketing company’s glossy.

From the MAC patreon:

 

[Lowlight]

Technically they have to announce they were paid to review the product, they are trying to skirt the rules by saying the money is for production and not the review.

These are paid reviews. It's not a true test it's something designed to put a positive spin on a product regardless of the end results.

If you look at the current laws, not stating up front they received payment is in violation

 

[Dthomas3523]

But that’s NOT what Tim at MAC is doing, and he shouldn’t be lumped in with those that are. Some youtubers do what you’ve described, some don’t. Not fair to loop them all in together because of some other marketing company’s glossy.

From the MAC patreon:
View attachment 7381760

Except he’s literally on the booking list for an agency you can contract to market your product.

 

[silentwoods]

Grand thumb states very clearly each and every time he reviews a weapon, sight or other gadget the situation with that company at the start of each video.
I'd consider him pretty damned straight.
And anybody questioning Jerry M. would be a complete douchebag imho.
There are some of those folks I think are in fact NRA shills for sure, and weapon mfgs also.
But there are some on this list that are very honest in their respective videos.
Lumping them all together is painting with a very broad brush.

 

[koshkin]

Interesting discussion.

I've never been paid to review anything. I must be doing something wrong.

YouTube opened up my channel to offer paid memberships, which I am kinda deliberating about, but if that works I can do away with advertising and affiliate links entirely.

ILya

 

[Evlshnngns]

Interesting discussion.

I've never been paid to review anything. I must be doing something wrong.

YouTube opened up my channel to offer paid memberships, which I am kinda deliberating about, but if that works I can do away with advertising and affiliate links entirely.

ILya

Your reviews are great, thanks for all you do.

 

[Lowlight]

The amount of offers to "review" stuff is pretty staggering,

I have been asked what do I charge for reviews and when I said, nothing we do merit-based videos they company declined the review. If someone wants to pay me I give them banners ads that are separate from my opinion of their product. They two are not connected.

Failed reviews are given a chance to fix the issue, I recently had an optic fail pretty bad, offered a chance to fix it and was passed on, so I just drop the issue and instead will post it here when it comes up vs seek to actively destroy them.

The real problem, and what brought a lot of this about was the "Gotcha" stuff, where reviewers went looking for problems vs trying to use them as we would in the field. The Gotcha stuff pushed companies to pay for positive reviews because too many SME were trying to uncover or report a problem.

I turn down at least 20 a week, most of them from Chinese companies that want to promote knock off products, but also US ones that sell on Amazon.

They are making money, otherwise, why would they continue, look at the rates posted above they are not cheap. You can churn out a video for very little money today, especially with the improved GoPro cameras, set it to 4k, Linear, Cinematic and you are 99% of the way there. One YT video a week can be a nice little cash cow over time.

 

[stilesg57]

Except he’s literally on the booking list for an agency you can contract to market your product.

That’s the equivalent of me putting out a list of NFL players then saying “select your preferred player and I’ll send them your marketing materials” — it doesn’t mean anybody on that list has any say about being on that list. It just means I’m pretending I have the contact info of the people on the list.

I’ll just forward this thread to Tim and let him explain it, but I don’t see what’s so difficult to understand here.

Here’s how Tim handles marketers who want to pay for his reviews:

 

[silentwoods]

That’s the equivalent of me putting out a list of NFL players then saying “select your preferred player and I’ll send them your marketing materials” — it doesn’t mean anybody on that list has any say about being on that list. It just means I’m pretending I have the contact info of the people on the list.

I’ll just forward this thread to Tim and let him explain it, but I don’t see what’s so difficult to understand here.

Here’s how Tim handles marketers who want to pay for his reviews:

View attachment 7381842

I think MAC is a straight shooter as well. He too calls it fairly as he continues to progress.
Nothing wrong making money doing it as long as you use integrity as a guide. And many do exactly that.
Hell, most folks are just jealous THEY cannot formulate a business model doing the same thing.
And they give it away for free.

 

[Lowlight]

You're an asshole

 

[...]

Be careful who you watch on YouTube...... That guys a paid shill here's proof. And Garand Thumb, IV888 all of them are.

https://www.leviathantribe.com

View attachment 7380175View attachment 7380176

the thing i respect abut Garand Thumb is he doesnt hide his relationship with companies....hes always states whether hes gotten shit for free or if he has a monetary arraignment with them....and the guy also isnt afraid to tell you when something is shit.....unlike Sootch00....that man has literally never said anything bad about a product, ever.

i cant fault anyone for taking money to do a review or schlock a product.....hell, i think most people here wouldnt turn down money to talk about a gun for a few mins.

Tim at MAC has gone WAYYYYY out of his way to be 100% transparent about his relationships with manufacturers, esp on Patreon. Way more than I would be about my business.

It’s not his fault you don’t read any of that information but then read one marketing material (that’s trying to ride off HIM btw) from an unaffiliated company and treat it like a conspiracy theory.

.....except for that time he shit all over the VP9 because it broke when he whipped it at steel plates repeatedly to simulate a "hard fall"........

 

[Dthomas3523]

That’s the equivalent of me putting out a list of NFL players then saying “select your preferred player and I’ll send them your marketing materials” — it doesn’t mean anybody on that list has any say about being on that list. It just means I’m pretending I have the contact info of the people on the list.

I’ll just forward this thread to Tim and let him explain it, but I don’t see what’s so difficult to understand here.

Here’s how Tim handles marketers who want to pay for his reviews:

View attachment 7381842

Then he needs to make sure they remove him.

As it sits right now, there is a company that is telling the world you can pay them to have him market for their company.

 

[n00g7]

Here’s how Tim handles marketers who want to pay for his reviews:

View attachment 7381842

1) Post draft email on Instagram without sending.
2) Cntrl-A, Delete, type “10%? Fuck Yeah, sign me up!”
3) Next YouTube video: Y’all, these Olights are fucking awesome for the price if you don’t want to spend Surefire money!

 

[stilesg57]

1) Post draft email on Instagram without sending.
2) Cntrl-A, Delete, type “10%? Fuck Yeah, sign me up!”
3) Next YouTube video: Y’all, these Olights are fucking awesome for the price if you don’t want to spend Surefire money!

Jeezus.

Yeah, sure you're right. Silly me, everything's just a fuckin' conspiracy

 

[stilesg57]

Then he needs to make sure they remove him.

As it sits right now, there is a company that is telling the world you can pay them to have him market for their company.

Agreed. Which is why I emailed him about it earlier. But a reputation/brand management slip is different than being a shill.

 

[n00g7]

Jeezus.

Yeah, sure you're right. Silly me, everything's just a fuckin' conspiracy

Haha, but what guntoober isn’t pimping olight these days though?

 

[M8541Reaper]

1) Post draft email on Instagram without sending.
2) Cntrl-A, Delete, type “10%? Fuck Yeah, sign me up!”
3) Next YouTube video: Y’all, these Olights are fucking awesome for the price if you don’t want to spend Surefire money!

Draft emails have the same rights as sent emails.

Jeezus.

Yeah, sure you're right. Silly me, everything's just a fuckin' conspiracy

While you’re right and not everything is, posting an image of a draft email is not evidence of how someone handles/plans to handle a matter.

 

[stilesg57]

Haha, but what guntoober isn’t pimping olight these days though?

Well, not Tim for one. Why do I feel like I keep saying this?

Draft emails have the same rights as sent emails.

While you’re right and not everything is, posting an image of a draft email is not evidence of how someone handles/plans to handle a matter.

Yeah, you're right. He's just lying to all his patreon supporters, risking thousands of dollars of monthly recurring revenue from them and (for the few to whom it still matters) his word and reputation over a manufacturer's kickback. (there are plenty more examples than this one, btw; not that it matters to people who've already made up their minds)

Whatever, I give up. Feels ridiculous that I'm coming off as some defender of the guy when I'm just trying to set the record straight on a few facts I do know about the situation. Maybe we could try contacting people directly before making asses of ourselves trashing them on an anonymous forum. Or maybe not.

 

[n00g7]

Well, not Tim for one. Why do I feel like I keep saying this?

Yeah, you're right. He's just lying to all his patreon supporters, risking thousands of dollars of monthly recurring revenue from them and (for the few to whom it still matters) his word and reputation over a manufacturer's kickback. (there are plenty more examples than this one, btw; not that it matters to people who've already made up their minds)

Whatever, I give up. Feels ridiculous that I'm coming off as some defender of the guy when I'm just trying to set the record straight on a few facts I do know about the situation. Maybe we could try contacting people directly before making asses of ourselves trashing them on an anonymous forum. Or maybe not.

You’re definitely too invested. Personally, I don’t take any of them as pure unbiased analysis let alone gospel, but I might watch a video to see some features or whatever if I’m not familiar with the item. As to whatever sponsor relationship I don’t know, don’t care, and on at least this specific one I doubt he’s lying.

However, what I do know is that taking a screenshot of a draft email to offer up as proof of one’s integrity being beyond reproach is some super lame high horse stuff.

 

[M8541Reaper]

Well, not Tim for one. Why do I feel like I keep saying this?




Yeah, you're right. He's just lying to all his patreon supporters, risking thousands of dollars of monthly recurring revenue from them and (for the few to whom it still matters) his word and reputation over a manufacturer's kickback. (there are plenty more examples than this one, btw; not that it matters to people who've already made up their minds)

Whatever, I give up. Feels ridiculous that I'm coming off as some defender of the guy when I'm just trying to set the record straight on a few facts I do know about the situation. Maybe we could try contacting people directly before making asses of ourselves trashing them on an anonymous forum. Or maybe not.

Dude I have nothing invested in this, just relax a bit man. I’m not trashing anyone and was only pointing out that a picture of an email’s draft is a useless talking point. None of this actually matters and there’s no reason to get upset.

 

[WildBill3/75]

In the early days of YouTube before it was bought by Google and when there were 0 advertisements it was cool.

These days it's polluted like cable television. Be careful what info you rely on.

That's why I like online forums. More real people with real world experiences. Also stay clear of brand affiliated forums. They can be known to delete negative posts about their products.

 

[TxWelder35]

In the early days of YouTube before it was bought by Google and when there were 0 advertisements it was cool.

These days it's polluted like cable television. Be careful what info you rely on.

That's why I like online forums. More real people with real world experiences. Also stay clear of brand affiliated forums. They can be known to delete negative posts about their products.

Yeah good thing no one on public forums is out there shilling products

 

[WildBill3/75]

Yeah good thing no one on public forums is out there shilling products

They are here too obviously and some are to the point where they are quite annoying but more regular people with real world experiences exist in this medium.

 

[M8541Reaper]

Yeah good thing no one on public forums is out there shilling products

Yea but they are pretty easy to weed through if you’re on a legit forum... like ARFCOM. #WhereTheProsGo

 

[chevy_man]

This could all be fixed.

Let all the reviews end up like Demo Ranch. Eventually they will get shot with a .50 or otherwise destructively tested.



I can't stand the way IV8888 talks. Otherwise I end up browsing through and watching some videos from most of those guys. I've never seen them rave about a product without mentioning they were sent one to test. We all know they're taking sponsors as they have obvious sponsor spots.

Can you blame them? They choose to make entertainment with relatively expensive products on a platform that refuses to pay them from addsense. They need some sort of income. Look at DemoRanch. He has 3 channels, bunker branding, and his vet clinic all producing income so he can keep buying new toys to do stupid shit with.

 

[Austan]

I have always just assumed if a YouTube video doesn't start with the host stating they weren't paid for the review video, then they were.

 

[ForgeValley]

Yeah, you're right. He's just lying to all his patreon supporters, risking thousands of dollars of monthly recurring revenue from them and (for the few to whom it still matters) his word and reputation over a manufacturer's kickback. (there are plenty more examples than this one, btw; not that it matters to people who've already made up their minds)

Pretty sure he might break even at 6-7 bucks a flashlight after the costs of producing the vid review after about a million years.

 

[chuckyfinster]

This thread didn't age well. Dude was spot on about 22lr.

 

[Fig]

The great ammo shortage became the great, permanent ammo price hike. It will keep climbing till there's no longer a shortage.
.22 was only the thread starter, but not really what this thread was about.

 

[chuckyfinster]

That's exactly what the thread was about.

Just saw his newest video pop up that “all 22lr ammo will be gone”. There has been zero mass purchases here of 22 ammo but idiots like this creating panic where no panic exists are ruining this sport. All just to make $$ on clicks and subs. I will not only be boycotting viewing his videos, I will also not do business with any of his sponsors.

For about 6 months it was difficult at best to find any, if you could find any at all. He was right.

 

[Eurodriver]

I stopped watching MrGunsandGear when he

A) stole Kyle defoor’s logo
B) Reviewed an IR flashlight without even using NV

 

[JoshPutman]

As with anything else on the interwebs, you've got to have a good bullshit filter. Mine is still being refined, especially after realizing that in some instances, bad feedback can and will be sanitized out of existence, to make it appear as though a product or service has a higher approval rating than it actually deserves.

 

[FuhQ]

This thread did NOT age well...

And yeah, most folks with half a brain, know that people making YT videos (with a large audience) reviewing products are getting paid to review those products and/or getting to keep those products for compensation. Advertising to generate sales...That's kinda how marketing works...

You know, all those pro athletes on the Subway commercials get free sandwiches for life. I'd certainly hope the company wouldn't want them to return them when they're done "testing" and advertising... And you know, all those football coaches get free Ford trucks just for saying "Built Ford Tough" and all that other stupid shit, and being seen driving one around... And you know, all those famous musicians get free instruments from their favorite/preferred brands...

All I'm saying is, most folks know they're getting paid, because reviewing and making those videos is their job, their livelihood, and obviously, their income. So, I'd certainly hope this isn't actually NEW news to anyone. If so... "Welcome to Earth. Hope you have a good visit, you're in for a neat adventure."

 

[AznTactical]

Almost 2 years and .22 ammo is still scarce at least in northeast and eastern WI. Once in a while I'll see a box or 2 of CCI Standard or that limited Winchester yellow box .22lr at Walmart. I do see Lapua Center X and Midas+ though regularly.

 

[Lowlight]

I wonder how many Tom Brady selfies we have from people running into him at Subway ?

 

[Cowpokey]

I wonder how many Tom Brady selfies we have from people running into him at Subway ?

With the spokes people Subway has employed, Jared and the soccer witch, it's surprising they are still in business. Their sandwiches aren't that good to begin with. Quiznos was much better, and they disappeared.

 

[JoshPutman]

Mancinos Grinders are the bomb. Subway is decent. Their selection of spokespeople is shit, however.

 

[Cowpokey]

Mancinos Grinders are the bomb. Subway is decent. Their selection of spokespeople is shit, however.

Never heard of them. Potbelly has some really good sammiches, wish they had one here.

 

[JoshPutman]

I'm not sure how wide spread Mancinos is. I've heard of Potbelly but never seen one here in Michigan.

 

[Cowpokey]

I've only seen Potbelly in central Maryland/DC, when I was stationed down there it was worth it, not going to drive 45 minutes to an hour down there for a sandwich though.

 

[spamassassin]

Cough, Togo's, cough.