Need more power than 350 Legend

[45-90]

Jesus. The last 6 whitetail I've shot have been in the head between 60 and 108yds with a small CF cartridge. Last year's antelope at 600yds. I haven't looked for blood trails in years.

375 Ruger for whitetail?....

Nothing wrong with a 375 Ruger for deer, I've hunted them with a 416 Rigby and a 325 gr Barns copper at 2850 fps...But I've killed more deer with a 338 mag than another caliber. Also have a 50BMG for squirrels when not using the 308 for squirrel hunting. I can't remember killing anything with the 223 although I've fired many thousands of rds of 223. I use the 222 for hunting small game, and one old man in a remote area used it for elk, many yrs ago. Another guy used a 458 win mag for deer as well as elk. Back in the day a 12 yr old kid could barrow an old 30-30 to hunt big gamwith...Whatever works for ya.

Sure. You can try to milk anything that has nipples. The point is why do you think you need to?

Because it works for you...because you want to know, or experiment,...and because you can..,"need" has nothing to do with it, and that's the point.

 

[45-90]

Well, if you follow the drift of this thread, outside of your personal opinion, people have in fact stated they think they need some sort of big bore to kill a deer. You're the only one with your opinion. And I wasn't responding to you.

Well, if you follow the drift of this thread, outside of your personal opinion, people have in fact stated they think they need some sort of big bore to kill a deer. You're the only one with your opinion. And I wasn't responding to you.

No opinion was introduced.... I infact use and prefer big bores and have used different calibers, if you read the post...but do not care what others prefer or use, some prefer the smaller bores on deer, In the field. I've seen evething from 223 to 458 Win Mag to hunt deer. What an individual chooses to hunt with is his business. And most any instrument will get the job done, rifle, pistol, shotgun, bow, or blackpowder...your choice, your hunt. I don't care...and I'm responding to you.

 

[hlee]

Jesus. The last 6 whitetail I've shot have been in the head between 60 and 108yds with a small CF cartridge. Last year's antelope at 600yds. I haven't looked for blood trails in years.

375 Ruger for whitetail?....

Have you heard of the Texas Hill Country Whitetail? Most bullets bounce off of them, and if you do luck one in, the damned deer run 3 miles before expiring in middle the biggest prickly pear cactus pile they can find. They’re tougher than a rock, because that’s all there is to eat. Ain’t nothing less than the ol’ ‘06 that even has a chance. But, good luck getting that into a small frame AR.

 

[hlee]

Sure. You can try to milk anything that has nipples. The point is why do you think you need to?

 

[wvfarrier]

358 Winchester is an absolute hammer on medium sized game. I had a winchester built by Regan Nonneman chambered in it. It killed quite a lot of deer, coyotes, bear and turkeys

 

[45-90]

You define the saying about arguing with idiots on the internet. You'll just drag someone down to your level and try to argue some nuance all day long just to be contrarian.

Ignore list

Now there is a false opinion...along with personal a feeble personal attack...someone must have hurt your little feelings...tell someone who cares. Grow up get a grip, I do not care what you think or your opinions... Or your pronouns.

 

[wvfarrier]

I personally use 300blk with the 176 grain controlled fracturing that are running just over 1000fps. I neck shoot them and have not needed to trail a deer in 4 years. That being said, all my shots are within 75 yards so YMMV.

 

[acudaowner]

this ought to have enough punch for you and your deer and it has it's own catchy theme song

 

[lash]

Update here after a month offline, apparently this whole discussion is moot now with the AFT’s latest stunt wit h pistol braces.

I was gonna shoot a doe with a 44 mag revolver but wanted to stick one with a bow first. Maybe next year, I appreciate the insight and look forward to next year!

Just to bring back the ‘where you hit them’ thing. I’m no big time hunter, but have taken Michigan deer with a .357 Maximum from a 20” Contender at 125-150 yards. 158g semi wad cutters. Lung-shoulder shots and they get 25-30 yards before collapse.

Not much more meat lost than a heart shot and less dependent on tracking and blood trail.

 

[45-90]

I personally use 300blk with the 176 grain controlled fracturing that are running just over 1000fps. I neck shoot them and have not needed to trail a deer in 4 years. That being said, all my shots are within 75 yards so YMMV.

Yep, if it's working for ya...why change? There are a lot of options, the manufacturers get involved the more options. I personally do not hunt deer with subs...but shoot a bunch of them 800 rds of 220s loaded for the 300 Blackout. The 8.6 Blackout is accurate with sub 300 gr Berger or SMK. Also you can shoot subs in 308 with just standard 175 gr SMK. A small game bullet for any subsonic 30 cal is the Hornady 30 86 gr Mauser pistol bullet...home hollow point it, and it mushrooms perfectly at sub velocities in any 30 cal rifle, and quiet, fun plinker for 308 too.
I also shoot the 450 Bushmaster subs and supers, mine has a 16 twist so it shoots 502 gr bullets accurately at sub velocities. It's just plain fun to shoot.
People who shoot will have a preference based usually on experience, so when it comes to hunting, it is possible to just change the bullet for better performance, and not the caliber, as a suggestion ..but changing calibers is also another choice for possible better hunting performance.

 

[91Eunozs]

.458 SOCOM

Or 450 Bushmaster…. I think the .458 is a slightly better round, but I buy .451 bullets in bulk for loading .45 ACP, so the choice was easy for me.

Works great out of a 10.5” barrel…with an 11” can hanging off the end! LoL

Paired with one of my SBR’d lowers, but would work as a pistol as well:

 

[45-90]

Or 450 Bushmaster…. I think the .458 is a slightly better round, but I buy .451 bullets in bulk for loading .45 ACP, so the choice was easy for me.

Works great out of a 10.5” barrel…with an 11” can hanging off the end! LoL

Paired with one of my SBR’d lowers, but would work as a pistol as well:

If you reload and choose a 16 twist barrel instead of 24 twist. The 450 Bushmaster becomes the slighty better round than the 458 SOCOM...it's cheaper, and more versatile, and more powerful, and flatter trajectory capable.
I shoot resized 502 gr .458 bullets sized to .452 in cheap Lee sizing die. So any available .458 bullets that are shot in the SOCOM can be resized and shot in the Bushmaster, plus cheap jacketed bulk 45ACP pistol bullets for 10 to 12 cents ea. Or pulled bullets really cheap..
Those pistol bullets work great and are very explosive in HP form when traveling at 2500 fps. Over 3000 ft/ lbs of muzzle energy from a 16" barrel, so recoil in a light AR is noticeable... I installed a Limbsaver bolt on recoil pad, now shooting the 502 gr bullets at sub or super velocities is more fun. I just enjoy it's destructive plinking power.

 

[lash]

If you reload and choose a 16 twist barrel instead of 24 twist. The 450 Bushmaster becomes the slighty better round than the 458 SOCOM...it's cheaper, and more versatile, and more powerful, and flatter trajectory capable.
I shoot resized 502 gr .458 bullets sized to .452 in cheap Lee sizing die. So any available .458 bullets that are shot in the SOCOM can be resized and shot in the Bushmaster, plus cheap jacketed bulk 45ACP pistol bullets for 10 to 12 cents ea. Or pulled bullets really cheap..
Those pistol bullets work great and are very explosive in HP form when traveling at 2500 fps. Over 3000 ft/ lbs of muzzle energy from a 16" barrel, so recoil in a light AR is noticeable... I installed a Limbsaver bolt on recoil pad, now shooting the 502 gr bullets at sub or super velocities is more fun. I just enjoy it's destructive plinking power.

Good info, but get thy temptation away from me, thou tempter! I’m just putting together the parts, I bought a while ago, for an 18” 350 Legend. I’ve purchased some factory ammo in different styles and weights for testing and brass, but am thinking 150 class or so at speed for results on game. I know that’s light, so I guess I’ll see. Some .357 hunting bullets are well proven at this point.

 

[357Max]

Good info, but get thy temptation away from me, thou tempter! I’m just putting together the parts, I bought a while ago, for an 18” 350 Legend. I’ve purchased some factory ammo in different styles and weights for testing and brass, but am thinking 150 class or so at speed for results on game. I know that’s light, so I guess I’ll see. Some .357 hunting bullets are well proven at this point.

Careful with pressure if you try using .357 bullets. Also check that they'll chamber, depending on brass thickness at the neck.

Check post #13 & 39 first page. Barnes 170TSX & Hornady 165FTX are .355 & designed to expand at 350L speeds. Shooters World SBR Socom powder is tits for 350L.

Edit: The braced pistol pictured in post 13 has a Maxim brace on it

 

[lash]

Careful with pressure if you try using .357 bullets. Also check that they'll chamber, depending on brass thickness at the neck.

Check post #13 & 39 first page. Barnes 170TSX & Hornady 165FTX are .355 & designed to expand at 350L speeds. Shooters World SBR Socom powder is tits for 350L.

Edit: The braced pistol pictured in post 13 has a Maxim brace on it

Noted. Thanks.

 

[wade2big]

I marked an anchor shot in red. Hit them in the base of the neck/front point of the shoulder and your deer or whatever you are shooting will not take a step. They will fall straight down regardless of cartridge. You will mess up a little chili meat. So what.

 

[45-90]

Good info, but get thy temptation away from me, thou tempter! I’m just putting together the parts, I bought a while ago, for an 18” 350 Legend. I’ve purchased some factory ammo in different styles and weights for testing and brass, but am thinking 150 class or so at speed for results on game. I know that’s light, so I guess I’ll see. Some .357 hunting bullets are well proven at this point.

Yes it's always good to check for neck thickness of the brass, with respect to bullet sizes .. But the 160 gr .357" I used are made expressly for the 350 Legend by Winchester...it's whats in their Factory loads. The bullets can range from .355" to 357" as I remember the chamber drawing of the 350 Legend. .358" diameter may be too large but they can all be sized smaller like .356" in a cheap Lee sizer die...fast and very cheap, ...and it works. I use .458" bullets resized .452" in the 450 bushmaster. Spray lube if some are a bit difficult to push through the die.

 

[lash]

Yes it's always good to check for neck thickness of the brass, with respect to bullet sizes .. But the 160 gr .357" I used are made expressly for the 350 Legend by Winchester...it's whats in their Factory loads. The bullets can range from .355" to 357" as I remember the chamber drawing of the 350 Legend. .358" diameter may be too large but they can all be sized smaller like .356" in a cheap Lee sizer die...fast and very cheap, ...and it works. I use .458" bullets resized .452" in the 450 bushmaster. Spray lube if some are a bit difficult to push through the die.

Thanks. Good heads up and a likely option for me. I did buy some of the 160 gr for when I start reloading the fired cases.

 

[DavidAR10]

Depends on the carry pistol.
View attachment 8036054
Xframe in 460s&w. I've printed 4" groups on steel out to two hundred with the factory 200gr ftx load. Admittedly haven't done it to an animal yet though. Missed a pig at 110 yards. Thought he was farther. Sent it just over his back.
View attachment 8036057
And what was that about pistols and low charge weights? I can't remember for sure but iirc I loaded 45.0gr of H110 under a 240gr xtp lit by a Winchester large rifle primer.
In the pic is a 357 magnum, the 460s&w and a 308.

To the OP I say 45 raptor. Pretty much the same thing as the 460s&w and they really pick up some steam in a longer tube. Friend of mine built a single shot 460s&w on a 700 action for a friend of his in a state with weird cartridge rules and in an 18" barrel the factory 200gr ftx load went from 2100fps in the 8⅜" xframe to 2900 in the bolt gun!

Magnum Research Lone Eagle 7mm-08.
The scope is a SIMMONS that JD Jones had spec'd with SIMMONS (Japan) for Long Range Pistol Silhouette.

 

[rlsmith1]

Little update here… this season I shot a medium size doe at ~125 yds with the same rifle but different bullets. The Winchester 160 gr Winchester Defender worked great! Pushed through a shoulder and 2 ribs. Double lung and dead with a 35 yd blood trail. Based on the size of the hollow point, I think this bullet would expand well even if it didn’t hit bone. Bonus for this ammo is it achieves its velocity from a 16” barrel

 

[45-90]

Little update here… this season I shot a medium size doe at ~125 yds with the same rifle but different bullets. The Winchester 160 gr Winchester Defender worked great! Pushed through a shoulder and 2 ribs. Double lung and dead with a 35 yd blood trail. Based on the size of the hollow point, I think this bullet would expand well even if it didn’t hit bone. Bonus for this ammo is it achieves its velocity from a 16” barrel

You can always build a light AR 10 in 358 win.
I just finished a 16" 308 win that weighs 6 lbs 3 oz...a 358 win could be built with the same light weight components...I have a 358Win in 16" AR 10, an excellent hunting caliber...if ya feel the need up up the power and range.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

You should try the deer season XP load, those thing’s consistently expand out to 200 yards and do a lot of damage. There’s some good gel test videos on them too comparing them to the pointed lead tips.

 

[rlsmith1]

You can always build a light AR 10 in 358 win.
I just finished a 16" 308 win that weighs 6 lbs 3 oz...a 358 win could be built with the same light weight components...I have a 358Win in 16" AR 10, an excellent hunting caliber...if ya feel the need up up the power and range.

I’m already trying to convince myself not to do that! My grandpa is 86 so this thing is perfect for him to use which is why it’s even still around

 

[Maverick3009]

I use the Winchester power point 180gr in my .350L how ever it is a bolt gun so do with that what you will. As I found out the other day, Winchester has released a .400L which bridges the gap between .350L and .450BM, seems intriguing however not sure it's worth a new rifle yet for me.

 

[Yondering]

Going back to the OP question and skipping all the weirdness in the middle of the thread - I had high hopes for the 350 Legend but was pretty disappointed in the execution; a lot of the details changed it from something with a lot of potential to something proprietary and limited.

I have a better alternative though (and did this long before the 350 L came out) - a wildcat I call the 358 Herrett AR. There are other versions of this floating around too - it's essentially a 6.8 SPC case blown out and necked up using shortened 357 Herrett dies. I chose the .358" rifle bore for versatility and the 1:14 twist rate, but some other variations use a .357" tube and 1:20 twist.

The long and short of it is this round will exactly duplicate 20" 35 Remington ballistics, but from a 16" AR15. Primarily that means 200gr @ 2150 fps, although it'll handle heavier or lighter bullets easily. I've made a couple of 10.5" versions that work well too. It also does double duty with heavy (250-300gr) cast subsonics too, somewhat like the dual purpose 300 Blk.

If a guy is interested in wildcatting, this one is easy to make with a 357 Herrett reamer, and makes a lot lighter package than a 358 Win AR10. I'm not in business making these and am not looking for any more work, but am happy to share info if someone's looking to try this.

200gr Hornady SP and 255gr cast hollow point (subsonic) shown, with 300 Blk on the left for comparison:

A big hollow point changes the world of subsonic terminal performance:

Feed ramp mods for large flat nose bullet profiles. Not necessary for pointed bullets.

 

[45-90]

Going back to the OP question and skipping all the weirdness in the middle of the thread - I had high hopes for the 350 Legend but was pretty disappointed in the execution; a lot of the details changed it from something with a lot of potential to something proprietary and limited.

I have a better alternative though (and did this long before the 350 L came out) - a wildcat I call the 358 Herrett AR. There are other versions of this floating around too - it's essentially a 6.8 SPC case blown out and necked up using shortened 357 Herrett dies. I chose the .358" rifle bore for versatility and the 1:14 twist rate, but some other variations use a .357" tube and 1:20 twist.

The long and short of it is this round will exactly duplicate 20" 35 Remington ballistics, but from a 16" AR15. Primarily that means 200gr @ 2150 fps, although it'll handle heavier or lighter bullets easily. I've made a couple of 10.5" versions that work well too. It also does double duty with heavy (250-300gr) cast subsonics too, somewhat like the dual purpose 300 Blk.

If a guy is interested in wildcatting, this one is easy to make with a 357 Herrett reamer, and makes a lot lighter package than a 358 Win AR10. I'm not in business making these and am not looking for any more work, but am happy to share info if someone's looking to try this.

200gr Hornady SP and 255gr cast hollow point (subsonic) shown, with 300 Blk on the left for comparison:

A big hollow point changes the world of subsonic terminal performance:

Feed ramp mods for large flat nose bullet profiles. Not necessary for pointed bullets.

...Or just build a light weight AR 10 308 6 lbs 3 oz.16" barrel. 168gr 2756fps 208 gr or eldm 2443 fps with excellent accuracy....as an example. Built a 30 RAR on AR 15, but the AR 10 308 is lighter and much more powerful.

 

[Yondering]

...Or just build a light weight AR 10 308 6 lbs 3 oz.16" barrel. 168gr 2756fps 208 gr or eldm 2443 fps with excellent accuracy....as an example. Built a 30 RAR on AR 15, but the AR 10 308 is lighter and much more powerful.

The AR10 platform is ALWAYS larger, bulkier, and heavier than a comparable AR15. No getting around that; it's just bigger, making it more bulky and awkward to carry, and anything you can do to make it lighter or smaller can be done to the AR15 platform as well. As much as I like big bores, like my 45 Raptor AR10, I'll take a handy small frame AR over a large frame for deer hunting any day of the week.

Besides, it just doesn't take that much power to kill deer; that 308 doesn't make them any deader than bunch of other smaller rounds can do. The 358 Herrett I mentioned above is already more than enough, same for the old 35 Remington or even the 30/30, or a host of AR15 rounds like 6.5 Grendel, 6.8 SPC, etc. Those that are convinced they need more power to kill deer probably just need to learn how to shoot better.

 

[sheepdog697]

what distances were you engaging deer with the 350L that you had issues and what load? I've had nothing but great success with mine. I use the 165gr ftx load from hornady, and ive never had an issue. That being said i havent engaged any deer beyond 120yds with this cartridge.

Genuinely curious where you had issues.

 

[lash]

Going back to the OP question and skipping all the weirdness in the middle of the thread - I had high hopes for the 350 Legend but was pretty disappointed in the execution; a lot of the details changed it from something with a lot of potential to something proprietary and limited.

I have a better alternative though (and did this long before the 350 L came out) - a wildcat I call the 358 Herrett AR. There are other versions of this floating around too - it's essentially a 6.8 SPC case blown out and necked up using shortened 357 Herrett dies. I chose the .358" rifle bore for versatility and the 1:14 twist rate, but some other variations use a .357" tube and 1:20 twist.

The long and short of it is this round will exactly duplicate 20" 35 Remington ballistics, but from a 16" AR15. Primarily that means 200gr @ 2150 fps, although it'll handle heavier or lighter bullets easily. I've made a couple of 10.5" versions that work well too. It also does double duty with heavy (250-300gr) cast subsonics too, somewhat like the dual purpose 300 Blk.

If a guy is interested in wildcatting, this one is easy to make with a 357 Herrett reamer, and makes a lot lighter package than a 358 Win AR10. I'm not in business making these and am not looking for any more work, but am happy to share info if someone's looking to try this.

200gr Hornady SP and 255gr cast hollow point (subsonic) shown, with 300 Blk on the left for comparison:

A big hollow point changes the world of subsonic terminal performance:

Feed ramp mods for large flat nose bullet profiles. Not necessary for pointed bullets.

I really like this easy wildcat, but while better, it wouldn’t meet the bizarre law requirements of those states that require straight walled cartridges.

ETA: and that was the whole niche purpose of the 350 Legend.

 

[rlsmith1]

what distances were you engaging deer with the 350L that you had issues and what load? I've had nothing but great success with mine. I use the 165gr ftx load from hornady, and ive never had an issue. That being said i havent engaged any deer beyond 120yds with this cartridge.

Genuinely curious where you had issues.

I had issues with the Winchester 180gr powerpoint (out of a 16" barrel) at 75 to 125 yds. This bullet was hit or miss as far as feeding in my rifle, and little to no expansion from what I could tell. Deer ended up dying, but the blood trail was small and longer than I would have liked (~200 yds up and over a hill). The Winchester 160gr Defender ammo seemed to work much better both terminally and from a feeding standpoint

 

[FredHammer]

I had issues with the Winchester 180gr powerpoint (out of a 16" barrel) at 75 to 125 yds. This bullet was hit or miss as far as feeding in my rifle, and little to no expansion from what I could tell. Deer ended up dying, but the blood trail was small and longer than I would have liked (~200 yds up and over a hill). The Winchester 160gr Defender ammo seemed to work much better both terminally and from a feeding standpoint

350 Legend Load Development, Crimping?

That’s a good question Sr Chief. I’ll check when I get home to the bench tonight. May be later as it’s a Monday. 🤮

hammerbullets.com

 

[Romeo458]

I shot one this season with a 150g deer season XP out of a 12" barrel and it had a softball size exit on the other side of its chest. I prefer the 350 because I don't have to track a deer I've shot with it. Some of the 45 boys in our group and my bosses group are going to the 350 legend because its out performing the 45-70. Your issue, if the shots are good, is probable selection.

 

[sheepdog697]

I had issues with the Winchester 180gr powerpoint (out of a 16" barrel) at 75 to 125 yds. This bullet was hit or miss as far as feeding in my rifle, and little to no expansion from what I could tell. Deer ended up dying, but the blood trail was small and longer than I would have liked (~200 yds up and over a hill). The Winchester 160gr Defender ammo seemed to work much better both terminally and from a feeding standpoint

Had a buddy that tried the Winchester 180gr and wasn't impressed either. My ruger american shoots about 1.5 inches at 100yds with that 165gr ftx. It's my hunting rifle and I run an older Leopold 3-9 on it with a silencerco omega 9k. More than adequate for the distances i shoot with it. My property is extremely wooded and farthest shot is maybe 150yds. It's a slick little setup, and everytime I shoot a deer with it I'm impressed. I've shot 6 with it in 2 years. None have gone far at all. Here's this years buck. Maybe give another round a try before you pass on the caliber. Everyone I know that is using them is having very good results (granted reasonable shot placement).

 

[45-90]

The AR10 platform is ALWAYS larger, bulkier, and heavier than a comparable AR15. No getting around that; it's just bigger, making it more bulky and awkward to carry, and anything you can do to make it lighter or smaller can be done to the AR15 platform as well. As much as I like big bores, like my 45 Raptor AR10, I'll take a handy small frame AR over a large frame for deer hunting any day of the week.

Besides, it just doesn't take that much power to kill deer; that 308 doesn't make them any deader than bunch of other smaller rounds can do. The 358 Herrett I mentioned above is already more than enough, same for the old 35 Remington or even the 30/30, or a host of AR15 rounds like 6.5 Grendel, 6.8 SPC, etc. Those that are convinced they need more power to kill deer probably just need to learn how to shoot better.

So where is the bulk? 6 lbs 3 oz, with a 16" barrel? ...My AR 10 308 is lighter than your pictured 357 Herret, and many 16" AR 15s or short AR 15s with suppressors added... plus cheap ammo or brass and bullets everywhere...plus a lot more power and range if ya want or need to shoot longer range targets, no problem. And reduced recoil factory ammo available, for those who don't like recoil, and if you handload choose your power level for your style, comfort, or hunting needs...the 308 easily wins this contest. All ya gotta do is build a light weight one... like I said. Easy...Absolutely no hassles. An all around muti purpose round, combat to hunting, you can even find ammo if ya run out...sometimes just laying on the ground where people go to shoot. You can love your 357 Herrett, but I'll take the lighter weight 308 over it any day.

 

[Yondering]

I really like this easy wildcat, but while better, it wouldn’t meet the bizarre law requirements of those states that require straight walled cartridges.

ETA: and that was the whole niche purpose of the 350 Legend.

For sure true about the straight wall states. But since OP was considering other bottleneck cartridges, I figure that wasn't a requirement here. And I developed this one long before the 350 L ever came about; it was never intended to replace or compete with it but instead built to replicate a 35 Rem in an AR.

 

[lash]

For sure true about the straight wall states. But since OP was considering other bottleneck cartridges, I figure that wasn't a requirement here. And I developed this one long before the 350 L ever came about; it was never intended to replace or compete with it but instead built to replicate a 35 Rem in an AR.

Oh, I get it. Just pointing out the limitations that caused the 350 to exist.

From the posts on here, it seems like lighter projectiles get better terminal results with the 350.