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Nice!!! If you could, Post up any info you get once his is finished. Would love to get some of the numbers for velocities with it in here to reference.
Nice!FYI, 22" Shaw barrel, Hornady factory 108 ELDM, 1st 120 rounds down the tube for barrel break-in. I'm seeing similar MV's in handloads with CFE223 and Lever with 109 Bergers and 110 ATips. Some of the dips, like around shot 70 and around shot 90 were cold fronts blowing through, so for sure I'm seeing temperature sensitivity. Around shot #110, I got a .65MOA five shot group at 700 yards so I'm fairly happy with the Shaw barrel. I think it's a better barrel than I am a shooter.
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I never had good luck with either in my rifle. I have a 18" Proof barrel that was made out of a shot out RPR barrel. I had no fire cracking other than the throat so I had my smith cut it off and make me an ARC barrel. Mine is also a 1-8 twist. I had really good results with Varget but since I run a can all the time I just got to much pressure and it was hard on my brass. I had better luck with LVR and since you want temp insensitive powder look at IMR8208. It may be because of my twist but mine just hammers with 87 to 90gr Bergers and LVR.....Starting the process to get a 6ARC upper built up and I’ll be using it for 1 and maybe 2 day PRS matches and have 2 questions (after all 44 pages - lots of awesome information).
1- has anyone done load testing with H4895 or Benchmark with 103 - 108 weight bullets in AR platform (wanting temp stability to handle South Dakota summer as well as winter temp changes)
2- choosing between a 20” +1 from Proof or the 22” +2 from Rainier Arms which way would you go? It’s going to be a match rifle and probably 90% of the time just have a muzzle brake and not a suppressor.
I never had good luck with either in my rifle. I have a 18" Proof barrel that was made out of a shot out RPR barrel. I had no fire cracking other than the throat so I had my smith cut it off and make me an ARC barrel. Mine is also a 1-8 twist. I had really good results with Varget but since I run a can all the time I just got to much pressure and it was hard on my brass. I had better luck with LVR and since you want temp insensitive powder look at IMR8208. It may be because of my twist but mine just hammers with 87 to 90gr Bergers and LVR.....
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24" CLE Bartlein finally in and buttoned up...I'm running short on scope bases so this unimount will work for now. Also have a 20" Proof so be interesting to see velocity gains side by side.
I'm really excited to see your results with the 24" from CLE.
I have a question for the 6 ARC crowd. Especially those reloading. Why not a 22 Grendel? Why a 6mm? It's all the same case, now with 22 bullets with the BC of a 6mm bullet, why opt for a slower version of the same or similar BC?
6mm is as small as I like to go for medium game (at the upper end of the bullet weight options, 100gr+), and is in the Goldilocks zone for recoil vs. energy vs. wind drift vs. BC vs. SD vs. velocity.I have a question for the 6 ARC crowd. Especially those reloading. Why not a 22 Grendel? Why a 6mm? It's all the same case, now with 22 bullets with the BC of a 6mm bullet, why opt for a slower version of the same or similar BC?
For me it’s about factory support with dies and brass and such and that for competition it’s something more practical.I have a question for the 6 ARC crowd. Especially those reloading. Why not a 22 Grendel? Why a 6mm? It's all the same case, now with 22 bullets with the BC of a 6mm bullet, why opt for a slower version of the same or similar BC?
My two main reasons:I have a question for the 6 ARC crowd. Especially those reloading. Why not a 22 Grendel? Why a 6mm? It's all the same case, now with 22 bullets with the BC of a 6mm bullet, why opt for a slower version of the same or similar BC?
Colorado wont let you poke holes in big game with less than .224. I’m thinking a howa mini action in 6 arc might be just the ticket for an ultralite hunting rifle for us poors and our kids. Not that the grendel is a slouch …..I have a question for the 6 ARC crowd. Especially those reloading. Why not a 22 Grendel? Why a 6mm? It's all the same case, now with 22 bullets with the BC of a 6mm bullet, why opt for a slower version of the same or similar BC?
I have a question for the 6 ARC crowd. Especially those reloading. Why not a 22 Grendel? Why a 6mm? It's all the same case, now with 22 bullets with the BC of a 6mm bullet, why opt for a slower version of the same or similar BC?
Could I trouble you all with a couple questions after watching the video…
He speaks of using 6.8spc magazines. I thought we were all using the 6.5 Grendel mags. Are 6.8spc mags basically the same as 6.5 Grendel mags? I thought they were different animals.
The barrel he had was cut for a shorter jump (.080 v. .120 inch) to the threads. Why does the jump matter for longer barrels but not for shorter barrels.
Thanks ahead of time for the learnin’.
Yeah, I have no idea why shorter jump would be necessary on long barrels but not on short... maybe the longer barrel is whipping around more and hence showing less precision... and a possible way to 'get back' the precision is to mess with jump.There may be some correlation to use-case but there's no physical/accuracy correlation between barrel length and jump. I haven't watched the video to get at what he was referencing specifically, but usually when people shorten the free bore (less jump) on a chamber reamer design, it's to run bullets with longer ogives.
Could I trouble you all with a couple questions after watching the video…
He speaks of using 6.8spc magazines.
Could I trouble you all with a couple questions after watching the video…
He speaks of using 6.8spc magazines. I thought we were all using the 6.5 Grendel mags. Are 6.8spc mags basically the same as 6.5 Grendel mags? I thought they were different animals.
The barrel he had was cut for a shorter jump (.080 v. .120 inch) to the threads. Why does the jump matter for longer barrels but not for shorter barrels.
Thanks ahead of time for the learnin’.
But I don't think he meant to imply that the shorter freebore was related directly to barrel length.
The barrel he had was cut for a shorter jump (.080 v. .120 inch) to the threads. Why does the jump matter for longer barrels but not for shorter barrels.
Check out how 2520 compares to the other 'big two'....
Check out how 2520 compares to the other 'big two'....
The way I watched that was that he is looking for TWO independent parameters.
1. Accuracy of 1MOA or better
and
2. A certain velocity range
What he said was that in shorter barrels where velocities were also slower the groups tended to be much better. Why that might be so I don't know. None the less he was saying that at slower velocities various guns would group a lot better, but that slower velocity is not good for competition shooting.
The whole philosophy behind Eagle Eye's criticism of the 6ARC was that in gas guns he said they won't hold groups with factory ammo (apparently just on longer barrels) so he set out to basically 'improve' the performance (in way of grouping) while also NOT giving up velocities. Basically he's trying to sell custom barrels with different chamber dimensions, meaning the lands will be brought in closer while using magazine length ammo.
[On a side note of conversation, there is definitely merit to trying to custom make a barrel for a given bullet type and barrel length but that is a topic for another day. In other words I am not at all throwing out their hypothesis (yet)]
For whatever reason they tend to think that the 'bad groups' are caused by what they deem as 'excessive jump' which may or may not have a lot of merit to it.
What they are saying (to me) is right now it's a matter of choosing A or B. Either get your velocity (A) or get your groups (B). They are working under the premise that it's either one or the other but he's trying to figure out how to get both A and B.
Instead of trying to rob Peter (velocity) to pay Paul (group size) how do you satisfy both without sacrificing either.
***While I don't know for sure, and I am definitely no expert I have a lot of mixed feelings about their stuff they are putting out. Personally I don't have enough data to confirm one way or another. On one hand there is definitely merit to bringing the lands closer to the bullet (via custom barrels). If for example you know X bullet likes a certain jump you can build a rifle around that. That's definitely a possibility that needs exploring. On the other hand I am not entirely convinced that every single longer barrel out there produces bad groups, even without giving up velocity.
Pretty much this whole concept was/is a product of Eagle Eye Shooting's mind. He's working around the basis that 'longer AR barrels all suck and cannot hold a sub minute group', whereas I myself am not entire convinced yet that this problem even exists.
Exactly. That's been my thoughts on the subject all along.It’s easier to sell a fix if you create the perception of a problem to begin with.
But, it’s on YouTube, so it must be true.
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24" CLE Bartlein finally in and buttoned up...I'm running short on scope bases so this unimount will work for now. Also have a 20" Proof so be interesting to see velocity gains side by side.
Yeah, I agree. I didn't post up the vid because I thought the guy is right, or that a custom chamber is needed. In fact quite the opposite. But I did think it was interesting PoV and glad it was discussed here.Exactly. That's been my thoughts on the subject all along.
I am not at all saying things can't be improved. Building a barrel for a specific bullet definitely could be a thing but overall I think this is a way to sell custom barrels with custom chambers. That's how it came across to me from the get go.
Nice!
I shoot the 109’s over LVR out of my 22” Rock Creek barrel. What LVR load are you shooting to get the 2740-60 speeds?
I am getting around 2750 with 29.6 of LVR when the temps are over 80. Also curious about your jump with the 109’s.
Tried some Hornady 106 grain TAP. Accuracy was terrible. Twice the group sizes as 108 match or 105 black.
The ELD-X is a bit pricey, but the Black and ELD-M aren’t bad at 25/box.Damn can you buy me a case I'll pay you extra hah
Same thoughts on the TAP, definitely not anywhere near as precise. My 100yd five shot groups were 1.42 and 1.75 with the TAP.Tried some Hornady 106 grain TAP. Accuracy was terrible. Twice the group sizes as 108 match or 105 black.
First ones out of it. it ought to speed up this weekend at the match. Got a two day match at arena in blakely,ga he is running it atThats pretty fast for a 20, wow! When I shot the factory Black I only got 2688 avg with an SD of 12 and ES of 32 at 90*! How many down the pipe so far? I'm hoping I get some good performance when my 24" CLE barrel finally gets here. My 20" monster gets around 2690-2720 with 29.4gr of LVR/105 BTHP and a suppressor, but it's definitely at the edge and full mag length to get that.
Edit to add...I got some stuff mixed up there. That load was pretty sane, I didn't see till after I posted in my book that those were 2x brass and the marks were from initial load work ups in the 30gr ballpark. No Chrono data at the time. They were cleaner burning and accurate, but rough on stuff...lol
It depends on your brass specifically. You may have more or less springback when sized and when running the mandrel. In general, yes it would provide less but it depends.So the .241 mandrel would leave just a tad less neck tension is that correct?